Why is there no accountability on Capitol Hill?
Accountability on Capitol Hill should be a given. But it isn’t.
Not in any consistent way, anyway. Not in the way it would be in a normal workplace. Not in the way it would be if the people in charge truly felt like they worked for us, instead of acting like we are lucky to have them.
This conversation started for us reflecting on the Graham Plattner and Ken Paxton mess, and the bigger question underneath it was simple. How far are the parties willing to go just to keep their numbers and win? How much are we willing to overlook as long as it is “our side” doing it? Once you start asking that question, you cannot stop seeing the same pattern everywhere.
Jolene came in with three changes she wants to see, and it was hard to argue with any of them. More time in Washington, D.C., because the shift from a five-day work week to a three-day work week has not just changed logistics, it has changed relationships. Less time together means less trust, less bipartisan socialising, and more oft that fly-in, perform, fly-out energy that feeds polarization. Then stock trading for politicians. Stop it. Full stop. If members of Congress are making $175,000 a year but then somehow becoming millionaires, we are allowed to ask questions. Clearly it’s a conflict of interest. And then the budget process. We are tired of continuing resolutions and shutdown threats being used like a toy. We are tired of “kicking the can down the road” while normal people deal with the fallout.
Nicole took it a layer deeper and made it less about policy and more about the human cost of how Congress operates. The schedule shift does not just affect productivity; it affects health and stability. It raises a real question about whether we are setting politicians up to live like sane human beings, or rewarding the ones who can grind themselves into the ground and never admit weakness until they literally drop dead or disappear for months on end.
That leads straight into one of the hardest parts of this episode. When elected officials disappear for weeks or months, miss votes, and offer vague explanations, it is not that mental health does not matter. It absolutely matters. If someone worked for you and they were struggling, you would want them to get help. But if you are elected to represent people, you cannot vanish and call yourself a “private person.” You are not private anymore. In the private sector, you would be warned, and if it kept happening, you would be fired. The secrecy also creates chaos. When people do not know what is going on, they fill in the blanks, assume the worst, and lose even more trust in a system that already feels rigged.
And then there is the accountability problem that sits underneath everything else. We have reached a point where people excuse almost anything as long as it helps their team win. We used to say “character counts” like it meant something. Now we act like character is a luxury we cannot afford. Like decency is optional. The bar is so low we are grateful when someone is only a little bit awful.
So what are the solutions, if the people who benefit from the system are the ones who would have to vote to change it? Term limits sound good until you realize Congress would have to approve them. Banning stock trading sounds good until you realize Congress would have to vote against their own financial interests. That is why we keep coming back to the same frustrating truth. If we want accountability back, it may have to come from voters, not from the institution itself.
And it is not partisan. That is the whole point. The left and the right are equally frustrated. We want the people we put in office to do the job, show up, tell the truth, and stop treating public service like a personal entitlement.democracy.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Lindsey Graham:
https://apnews.com/article/lindsey-graham-dies-south-carolina-bfa556e170f2df22ce9ffc7165da3dfa
Tom Kean:
End Congressional Stock Trading Act (H.R. 1908, 119th Congress)https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1908
Reps. Ocasio-Cortez, Roy, and Magaziner on insider trading legislation (C-SPAN)https://www.c-span.org/program/news-conference/reps-ocasio-cortez-roy-and-magaziner-speak-to-reporters-on-insider-trading-legislation/665092
We’ve Got To Talk David French Episode https://youtu.be/JQSKSrQfw78?si=G2PBvuhr0fHAF9sY
Future Caucus (formerly Millennial Action Project)https://futurecaucus.org/
Congressional Future Caucushttps://futurecaucus.org/future-caucus/congressional-future-caucus/
How America Got Mean (David Brooks, The Atlantic)https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/09/us-culture-moral-education-formation/674765/
We’ve Got To Talk Episode (David Brooks Article) https://youtu.be/qydEt3wbPXQ?si=DYQlKg1y4b1UlS6Q
David Brooks: How America Recovers from All This (Yale Jackson School event page)https://events.jackson.yale.edu/event/david-brooks-yale-conversations-040726
David Brooks: How America Recovers from All This (video)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YRTSA9q-6M
James Talarico (official site)https://jamestalarico.com/
In Israel, Rahm Emanuel Calls for End of Unconditional U.S. Support (NYT)https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/07/us/politics/rahm-emanuel-speech-israel.html
Congress Schedule Opinion https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/388007-lawmakers-to-help-repair-our-polarized-congress-make-dc-your-home/
Congress Schedule
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/TE10041?utm_source=
We’ve Got To Talk Episode Brad Porteus of Bridge Grades ttps://youtu.be/Pq5BYIgxJvw?si=DzRop48P67TlNGH_
Bridge Grades (Brad Porteus) – Abouthttps://www.bridgegrades.org/about
Bridge Grades (main site)https://www.bridgegrades.org/
We’ve Got To Talk Tipping and Rating Episode:
https://youtu.be/Ou1CVCXOaXo?si=atxMn3OKK0GUFFIA
NYTimes Bruce Feiler Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/15/opinion/ritual-connection-meaning-community.html?unlocked_article_code=1.zVA.mxMX.F7_TlmWqQfUX&smid=url-share
What Is an Honor Walk (organ donation tradition, Lifebanc)https://www.lifebanc.org/community-partners/hospitals-medical-professionals/the-hoor-walk/
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head but are too scared to say out loud. Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome my dear friend Jolene.
[00:00:23] Jolene: Thank you, Nicole. It is so good to be with you all again today on We've Got to Talk. We are discussing accountability on Capitol Hill. Question mark? Hmm. Is there? Should there be? Do we have it?
[00:00:39] nicole: don't know.
[00:00:40] Jolene: just for a little context here, I think we started talking about this really with the Graham Platner thing.
[00:00:46] And the Ken Paxton. How far are the parties willing to go in their desperate need for numbers and to win and all those things? So we said we should [00:01:00] do, we should do a podcast on this, and here's what's interesting is then I started thinking of a lot more things that I would like to see.
[00:01:07] So here are my, my top three. well, number one, more time in Washington, D.C. We've talked about this before. You've brought up before that, back in the '90s, they really switched from a five-day a week to a three days, um, per week in D.C. for various, reasons, but has that affected the way that, that people work, can work together?
[00:01:31] so I have thoughts on that. Number two, stock trading. Eliminate it. The fact that our president and a lot of congresspeople are making a lot of money, and if you take a look at what was their net worth when they became a congressperson to what is their net worth today, making 174,000, 175,000 our congresspeople make.
[00:01:55] How is it they've become millionaires? Isn't that interesting? So that's number [00:02:00] two. And number three, the budget process. I'm tired of continuing resolutions that just kick the can down the road. We've heard that phrase 100 times every time that one of the parties wants to weaponize the whole budget process, and they shut down the government.
[00:02:17] It's all bullcrap, and we need to be the adults and say, " This is the way that we need to establish our budget, and we live by it, and we do that." We haven't passed a budget since 1997. Yep. Continuing resolutions. We passed it in '97, and '98 was the last budget. I mean, they passed it in '97 for the '98 budget.
[00:02:42] Haven't had one since then. Continuing resolutions the entire time
[00:02:46] nicole: to kick the, the can down the road
[00:02:49] Jolene: Yep.
[00:02:50] nicole: the next party
[00:02:51] Jolene: Yep.
[00:02:52] nicole: Okay, I need you to buckle up, Jolene, 'cause
[00:02:55] Jolene: Oh,
[00:02:56] nicole: I need to put my glasses on so that I can read my chicken scratch.
[00:02:59] [00:03:00] I am also thinking about accountability on, um, Capitol Hill, I was thinking about Lindsey Graham's sudden passing.
[00:03:08] And was just honestly thinking about, like, the current lives of our politicians and because of how they are living their lives, it was giving me pause.
[00:03:18] Thinking again, like what you just said, I think it was in your number one, uh, thinking about the, Clinton-Gingrich 1995 schedule shift, where they changed the workweek from, uh, five days to three days. Number one, it was making me think, and we've talked about this in other pod- podcasts before, it's not good for the polarization in this country. It's not good for bipartisan socialization, and it started to make me think, and again, I don't, you know, I don't know, I'm not a doctor, and I don't know Lindsey Graham's health, but it started to make me think about a person's health and what we've set up for a person to
[00:03:56] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:57] nicole: to work on running this country. [00:04:00] Are we really giving our politicians the best chance of a healthy, stable life? That's my number one. Number two, we can talk about age. We can talk about the fact that was too old. We can talk about that Trump's too old. We can talk about that Feinstein was too old. We can talk about that RBG was too old. McConnell's too old. to me, it's more than this age issue. To me, it's about power and these politicians not wanting to lose it. It's
[00:04:32] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:32] nicole: politicians' own self-interests and not about helping the people of this country the people elected them and these politicians are supposed to be serving us, and yet it seems that it's really about holding onto power. Number three I don't wanna be insus-insensitive here, but when Representative Tom Kean went missing for four months for depression, [00:05:00] and he claimed that it was because he, quote, "Was a private person," unquote, he missed 100 votes. He was not heard from in his district or in DC. Mitch McConnell has gone...
[00:05:13] went MIA for three weeks because he, quote, "His generation doesn't like to admit weakness," unquote. I wanna be clear about something. These two examples that I've just given are Republicans, and I would say this for Democrats as well. Like Fetterman, he was diagnosed and went into, uh, the hospital for depression as well. when y- a person is elected to office by the people to represent us, you are no longer private. you can't just disappear and think that, that that's okay. Like, if this were the private sector, You'd probably be fired. If not, you'd be warned. And I think this might have to do, strangely, work with me here, what you're talking about with the stock trading and the money that they're [00:06:00] making. There's this entitlement now in politics that I feel like needs to be wiped out, and I don't know if term limits are the answer, where you into office, you do the best you can, and then you move on. So what is going on here? And my final takeaway in this is, does this need to be a partisan issue? I don't think so.
[00:06:25] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:06:26] nicole: you and I, are both equally frustrated. It doesn't matter if we're or a Democrat, that we want our politicians that we have put into office be held accountable and to not use their, their place for power, money. You're the one that has that Constitution, by the people, for the people
[00:06:56] Jolene: I agree. we could really get into the weeds on, [00:07:00] on these topics. But, um, so from a high level, I think we're getting to this point where almost everything that, that is happening is ridic- it's like another level of ridiculousness.
[00:07:13] And a- a- again, the, the representative, um, Tom Kean, you know, it sounds hor- it sounds like a horrible situation, but as you pointed out, if he worked for me, he would have come to me and said, "I, I gotta deal with this. I've got a situation, and I need to deal with it." And I would say, "Your mental health is more important than anything," and I don't know anybody else who would say anything different.
[00:07:40] And so we would give him that time and know that he is being taken care of. The fact that we knew nothing, we had no idea where he was, why he was out. The same with Mitch McConnell. I was a conspiracy theorist and thought that he was dead, and we just, we needed to hang onto him, to him until [00:08:00] August, because we needed, we didn't need a special election in Kentucky with a, with a governor who's a Democrat, and I, I mean, these are the things that we're thinking of when we don't know.
[00:08:10] nicole: Right.
[00:08:11] And even the photograph that they put out, people were like, "It's fake, it's fake." I'm like,
[00:08:16] Jolene: Right?
[00:08:16] nicole: is going here?"
[00:08:19] and it's similar to what you said at the beginning, Jolene, about Graham Plattner and Ken Pa- Paxton. We're
[00:08:26] Jolene: Yeah
[00:08:27] nicole: this point that it doesn't matter who we put in office just so that our side wins. I had a conversation with a friend that was like, "Well, you know, he's a raper. So what? So is Trump." And I am just... Uh, uh, I, uh
[00:08:50] Jolene: Right? I-
[00:08:51] nicole: "I'm sorry. I expect more of us."
[00:08:54] Jolene: you know, there was a, uh, just this afternoon, we're recording this on July 16th, [00:09:00] and, um, just this afternoon there's new allegations of Representative Gallegos
[00:09:04] two women have accused him of sexual misconduct, ironically, he is a good friend of Eric Swalwell. they are buddy-buddies, and the two of them were the, in the bro coalition you know, that they've got the power. They've got this power, and it doesn't matter what they do because they're untouchable. And there's so much of that, I think there's so much of that bravado in DC that, uh, like you said earlier, like, the, that power is so strong and that th- wanting that power is so strong, yes,
[00:09:41] nicole: Mm-hmm
[00:09:41] Jolene: you know, people were willing to overlook things with all of these people because they wanted them in power.
[00:09:50] And at what point do we go back to, I, I mean, I know we've talked about this before, but I go back to the Bill Clinton era when we were like, "Character counts," [00:10:00] and, you know, "We want our children to look up to the office of the presidency, and that's naughty, and he's a bad man." And now we're like, "Eh, if that's the worst thing that happens, boy, that would be a walk in the park."
[00:10:12] nicole: Everyone has access to so much information, you heard allegations about John F. Kennedy having
[00:10:18] Jolene: Yeah
[00:10:19] nicole: that this is not a new phenomenon is my guess. there is a certain amount of confidence, possibly a certain amount of ego that it takes to run for office.
[00:10:29] to be elected, you might be fairly magnetic, my guess is that there-- this is not a new thing that people sleep around. Uh, we just know about it way more than back in the
[00:10:43] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah
[00:10:44] nicole: maybe society was more polite, and you just didn't spread those
[00:10:49] Jolene: Yeah, right.
[00:10:50] nicole: but now I just feel like we've sunk so low
[00:10:55] Jolene: But I also think that our society, uh, we've talked about this before, [00:11:00] that, our system feeds into that. You know, you've got to be polished, and you have to be, you know, good-looking, and, we are feeding into that part of our m- of our brain that that's okay because we want them to be powerful and, and manly and, I mean, and, uh, obviously I'm talking about the men, but you don't, you certainly don't want wimpy women.
[00:11:23] And so,
[00:11:23] nicole: Mm-mm.
[00:11:26] Jolene: and,
[00:11:27] nicole: Well, even, even like, um, I mean, this was before our time as well, but the television changed politics,
[00:11:35] when they started to televise candidates, it was much more about their appearance than, like, being on the radio,
[00:11:42] You and I just brought up a lot of issues and a lot of things that we feel are wrong, uh, and we're on opposite sides as, you
[00:11:52] Jolene: Yeah, yeah
[00:11:53] nicole: we both have the-- we both feel about what's going on. what are the [00:12:00] solutions? And one thing that's tricky is that will we ever get a Congress that would approve term limits? 'Cause that would then approve that it would take their power away, so Chip Roy and AOC this bill to, uh, stop stock trading Congress, but how are we gonna get all these people to vote for it, which then will make them not ma- become the millionaires that they are now? Like, Do you have any suggestions, Jolene?
[00:12:32] Jolene: Well, it's almost like the, it needs to be some type of ballot initiative that w- we as the people get to vote on these things and say that we , that we want to make this law because we don't think that they're capable of making a law. I don't know. I mean, is it a, is it an amendment? Is it a... I, I don't know.
[00:12:51] But I don't... I think you're right. I don't think we can trust them
[00:12:53] nicole: Right, and term limits as well. Like, we have to be able to bring trust back into the government, which I [00:13:00] think Democrats and Republicans are s- I think everyone's very distrustful at this point
[00:13:04] Jolene: Well, yeah, 100%. But I do think that you're gonna get pushback on term limits because there are those who think that there is a benefit to having your senator in there for four terms because they sit, you know, they're on the highest committees, they're, you know, that they do a lot for your state because they are the most influential.
[00:13:26] They, you know, they know the players, they play the game, blah, blah, blah
[00:13:29] nicole: and I think experience is important, but what do we do when people are ill or old? Like, what do we do? It doesn't seem like there's any sort of clauses. and in the, in this Congress, six people have died, just in this term.
[00:13:48] Jolene: wow.
[00:13:49] nicole: Six people. that's an issue. Like, there's no precedent? I don't
[00:13:55] know
[00:13:55] Jolene: Because the average age, I think, is 65. Isn't that... Did you see [00:14:00] that?
[00:14:00] nicole: right. I don't think it's necessarily because people die of old age. I mean, Lindsey Graham was only 71.
[00:14:06] Jolene: Yeah
[00:14:06] okay. So then n- now, I mean, we could open up the whole can of worms of is,
[00:14:13] nicole: it
[00:14:15] Jolene: is this the best way? Are we doing this the best way? Are we... Are- have we gone so far down this system of electing, our congressional candidates, and then they spend so much time fundraising that they're not actually working in DC,
[00:14:32] nicole: with you,
[00:14:33] Jolene: and that, uh, uh, and that money and the PACs and the super PACs and the lobbyists.
[00:14:41] I mean, the whole th- you could, we could go on and on and on about how bad the system has gotten. Do we need to completely redo the system and value our democracy, yet do it in a different way?
[00:14:57] nicole: I mean, I would say yes. [00:15:00] What would you say?
[00:15:01] Jolene: I think, I don't know that we'll see it in, in our lifetime
[00:15:04] nicole: I don't know when we would actually ever see it because people don't wanna give their power up. how do we do that? mean, you've taught me this on this podcast, money and power, money and power, they go hand in hand. if politicians have free reign on how much money they get to spend on their campaigns, it's gonna be very rare when someone that has no money
[00:15:28] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:30] nicole: wins
[00:15:31] Jolene: Right. but especially if we're asking them to stay in Washington DC then for five days,
[00:15:37] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:37] Jolene: okay, if you've got a family, you're moving your family, can you afford to live in DC? Can... I mean, I, I know that you have a budget. you get a stipend from, as a Congress person, to be able to pay for your staff and your housing and your transportation back and forth, but not for your family and not for your kids.
[00:15:55] So, there's, again, there's so much that goes into this [00:16:00] that it, there's obviously not a, a quick and easy answer. but, uh, the w- but we've said, that's one of the things that we both agree on, that there has to be more, relationship building in Congress to be able to, you know, talk to people.
[00:16:15] You know, this, uh... Did y- I'm sure you saw the Elena Kagan was speaking in front of Cong- in a subcommittee or a, a committee hearing, and but she took time out to talk about Lindsey Graham, and she's predominantly a, you know, a judge on the Supreme Court who leans left.
[00:16:32] But, you know, she talked about, you know, this relationship sh- that she had with Lindsey Graham, and it was very heartfelt, and it was funny, and it was... And you're like, gosh, just hearing that story alone, you were like, "Oh, that makes me feel good." I mean, that's w-
[00:16:45] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
[00:16:47] Jolene: y- you know, that we don't get to hear because there's so much vitriol that we hear about that we don't get to hear some of those good things.
[00:16:56] nicole: I think also, 'cause I, I also in my threads [00:17:00] have been seeing that whether it was Cory Booker or,
[00:17:03] Adam Schiff, Amy Klobuchar, who said, you know, they were sad and they, they are going to miss their friend.
[00:17:13] Jolene: Yeah
[00:17:15] nicole: talked about how they sometimes ferociously disagreed.
[00:17:20] Jolene: Yeah
[00:17:20] nicole: those are the things that are... You can do-- As you've said a bunch of times, you can do two things at the same time. you can debate ferociously and still care about another person, and
[00:17:33] Jolene: Yeah
[00:17:34] nicole: highlight that anymore. you know, we talk about this a lot as well, the exhausted majority.
[00:17:40] there are more of us on the left, the right, and the middle in the exhausted majority than the very loud, very screamy, very look-at-me wings on the left
[00:17:52] Jolene: Yep.
[00:17:52] nicole: And, and if we maybe were a little less exhausted banded [00:18:00] together... I actually talked to David French, like a little back and forth with him recently, feeling fairly party-less right now. it certainly doesn't feel good, But I also think that it's okay, and I think it's important that I possibly say it, and I say it here, because I don't
[00:18:20] Jolene: Hmm
[00:18:21] nicole: right now really with what's going on in the Democratic Party. I don't believe we should put people in that at all costs to win.
[00:18:33] I think
[00:18:33] Jolene: Yeah
[00:18:34] nicole: talked about this a million times, that I believe in decency. Full stop, stop. I am so tired of what's going on in, in our politics, and I do think we need to model something different. Uh, the kids coming up, they've only seen, fighting and bad behavior, and why should they think anything different?
[00:18:59] And, [00:19:00] you know, I'm very excited about, Layla Zaidan, who's g- we're gonna interview at the end of the month, and I'm assuming we will air her in August, and she created the Future Caucus. And they just had this, gathering, this conference in DC this past week, and I've been following them on Instagram,
[00:19:18] Jolene: Mm-hmm
[00:19:19] nicole: it's, you know, it's Gen Z and millennial politicians that they are coming up working together because I just see this as hope for us and for our
[00:19:30] Jolene: Yeah
[00:19:31] nicole: they don't look so much at red and blue. They look at, like, basically old people and the young people,
[00:19:37] Jolene: Yeah
[00:19:38] nicole: lopped into the, the old people, Jolene.
[00:19:42] Jolene: Can't... How
[00:19:43] nicole: I-
[00:19:43] Jolene: dare you say that?
[00:19:45] nicole: know. We'll have to talk to Layla about this. We're like, "Can we please be in your Future Caucus even though we're the, the
[00:19:50] Jolene: Oh, you were so young.
[00:19:52] nicole: on." Okay, can
[00:19:54] Jolene: okay, can I ask you this? as a woman who has Jewish ties
[00:19:59] nicole: [00:20:00] Hmm.
[00:20:00] Jolene: If the Democratic Party comes out and establishes on a platform that they are not supporting Israel, What will that do for you?
[00:20:13] nicole: people take these grand stances, and they don't understand the full story. I also understand that Netanyahu is not every Israeli person, just like I understand that President Trump is not every American.
[00:20:27] but we make these grand stances, and I, I'm very concerned about the rise in antisemitism. do I agree with everything that Benjamin Netanyahu has done? Absolutely not. I also don't blame the Jews for his, what he does, and I don't blame necessarily Israelis for what he does. I think he is a self-interested, power-hungry, dangerous person. That is what I believe. Do I think what's going on in the [00:21:00] Democratic Socialist movement of this rise in antisemitism, that they're blaming the Jewish people for the destruction of Gaza? That, to me, is equally as dangerous. So that's part of the thing that I feel party-less about, is I'm like,
[00:21:16] Jolene: everything is very
[00:21:17] nicole: black and white, and I find that dangerous,
[00:21:21] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah
[00:21:22] nicole: there's no nuance. There's no room. I, Emma- um, Rahm Emanuel, you know, he spoke, I didn't disagree with him. He was like, know, the, "Don't just, uh, just expect, Israel, that we are going to, support you." And that was the most, my opinion, sane thoughtful, um, argument.
[00:21:52] Jolene: and again
[00:21:53] nicole: I think when we lump in all of these different, um, uh, groups [00:22:00] and blame each other, it's really, really dangerous.
[00:22:03] Jolene: yeah, no, I think it's a, it is a slippery slope that the Democratic Party, if, if they think that Mamdani is, Mamdani
[00:22:12] nicole: Dani
[00:22:13] Jolene: is the, is the new head of the Democratic Party. Oh
[00:22:19] nicole: I mean, Mamdani, Mamdani is a really good politician, and I
[00:22:25] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:25] nicole: one thing that people really, they are attracted to him. that the, that I feel like they could learn, that we could all learn from, is that he's smiling most of the time. He seems like a pretty joyful person, and we are all hungry for it. I also think he's incredibly smart, he definitely knows how... Is learning how to play the game in New York really fast, and I don't think he is necessarily the poster child of what-- Where I'm concerned is these fringes that are even [00:23:00] more left than him, and that he endorsed, like Chevalier.
[00:23:05] She, she to me is incredibly dangerous. But one thing that I find that I just wanna say to, our Democratic listeners and viewers, that, French has taught me a lot about, who's a conservative, uh, voice, uh, about where the Democratic Party could go versus where it is going. maybe I'll put it in the show notes just because So, uh, David Brooks, who was a New York Times columnist and is now-- He writes for The Atlantic. Jolene and I did a episode last fall of... He wrote a really amazing article called "How America Got Mean," and it's actually been our, I think, our highest-rated and he's a really, really smart person, and now he's on the Yale faculty. [00:24:00] Um, he is, uh, part of the, uh, the Jackson School of Global Affairs, and I saw this, um, talk that I sent to you, I r- actually, I recommend everybody to watch it. I know it's, like, an hour, but it's so worth your time because he goes in and talks about, the history and that we... It is a difficult time, but we in some ways have been here before and sort of goes through each decade and as to why we are here where we are. And one of the things that I really loved about the talk that he was basically like, "Hey, Democrats- And similar to what David French would talk about, like, you might wanna look at like just at the decency track. Like, there are things that you, that, that right now it's not surprising that we are swinging so far left that acting like Chevalier and Graham Platner are okay because... And what is our response? [00:25:00] "Well, we have Trump." So that's the response? That's what we're, that's what we're deciding? Versus like, "Hey, maybe we should have someone like James Talarico. we should start talking to each other. Maybe we should hold up just candidates on either the right or the left that, that wanna work together, that wanna
[00:25:19] Jolene: Oh, I do. I
[00:25:20] nicole: wanna be like..." So part of me is like, said this to David French the other day, I was like, "Maybe we need that party," like the
[00:25:29] Jolene: Yeah
[00:25:30] nicole: where the, the exhausted majority can all just like join that party and crush everybody else.
[00:25:36] Just crush everybody else and get back to basic... And, and this might not be popular, but maybe we do need to f- like stop stock trading, but we need to raise the wage of congresspeople. like here's the deal. I don't know how much people get paid. I know it's goo-
[00:25:56] Jolene: 175. 175,000. Yeah, [00:26:00] everybody gets the same amount.
[00:26:01] nicole: Yeah. Everybody gets the same amount.
[00:26:02] Jolene: That's a lot. Yep. And if you hold a position of, of, like if you're the Speaker of the House, you get more money, but everybody gets paid 175,000. That's a lot
[00:26:15] nicole: a lot in New York, unfortunately. But I'm just
[00:26:18] Jolene: but if you have everything else paid for, like if that's your salary
[00:26:22] nicole: It's not bad. And that's the thing is that and this is maybe being Pollyanna-ic, but aren't, don't people go into public service to help serve, not to make money?
[00:26:32] Jolene: Absolutely. But you've gotta have money to be able to run, and that's the part that i- is, it's, it's this vicious cycle.
[00:26:40] nicole: happens
[00:26:41] Jolene: You know
[00:26:41] nicole: level, Jolene. I know that in Utah that the state house, they're part-time.
[00:26:47] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Yeah
[00:26:49] nicole: and they do not make a lot of money, and I think t- I thought-- I was shocked. I didn't know how that worked. it, and that leads a person, like, have to have a certain amount of money [00:27:00] to be able to live
[00:27:03] Jolene: Yeah
[00:27:03] nicole: and, and run, and that doesn't seem, seem representative.
[00:27:09] Jolene: you also have to have a job that allows you to be gone for... I mean, and I know in Iowa it's like the, the sessions, and I think it's this way in Missouri too, the, the session starts in January and only goes through April. So I mean, it's four months.
[00:27:24] nicole: They
[00:27:24] Jolene: So you have to... Yeah, and so, uh, like if you, if you're an insurance salesman, then yeah, you can, you can kinda do that, but you still gotta be able to, you know, run your business because then after April you still have to work your other job, you know,
[00:27:39] nicole: Yeah.
[00:27:39] Jolene: eight months out of the year.
[00:27:40] nicole: Yeah
[00:27:40] Jolene: okay, here's the other thing, though, that I, when I was n- when I started thinking about the whole spending more time in Washington, and one of the arguments of only having a three-day work week is so that the, the congresspeople can go back into their districts and meet with their constituents and get a pulse on, you know, what, [00:28:00] what's going on there.
[00:28:00] And, and I'm like, okay, but this is 2026. Like, we all have Zoom calls, we all have text, we all have emails. We... I, I mean, I feel like our people, our, our congressional delegates are very accessible, so,
[00:28:18] nicole: It's a very good
[00:28:19] Jolene: or they should be. And so I, I, you know, having them go back to a town hall, I mean, yeah, that's, that is valuable, but maybe that's a Sunday afternoon or, you know, maybe that's a Saturday afternoon, you know, whatever.
[00:28:32] nicole: also, like Jolene, you sent me, I mean, I'll put this in the show notes, that, uh, document of the history of Congress
[00:28:41] Jolene: Oh,
[00:28:42] nicole: which I
[00:28:42] Jolene: yeah
[00:28:43] nicole: you for do- sending that to me. It was super helpful because in my research, and maybe it's, you know, a liberal algorithm, I don't really know, but when I would Google, it would talk about the 1995 schedule shift that Newt Gingrich proposed that [00:29:00] stuck from the five days to the three days.
[00:29:04] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:04] nicole: this document that was a, a congress.gov document, and it showed the history, and I think it started, like, maybe in the early '70s, if I recall, they always were working on zhuzhing. That's not the official word, but zhuzhing the schedule. And one
[00:29:19] Jolene: Yeah
[00:29:20] nicole: I don't know if it was 19-- I don't know why 1977 is popping in, but, to my brain.
[00:29:24] But there was one, don't know if they, uh, used it, but one proposal was, like, three weeks on, three--
[00:29:33] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:29:34] nicole: which to me also made of sense, you know, I'm in Washington for three weeks. I put, I put my head down and then a week back in my constituency. But I agree with you, Jolene. We are so modern now.
[00:29:48] you can do a Zoom t- town hall. You can get a pulse. Unfortunately, you're so available,
[00:29:56] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:29:56] nicole: That, that it's more like maybe part of this is [00:30:00] the, the mental health issues in Congress,
[00:30:03] Jolene: Mm-hmm
[00:30:04] nicole: actual time to shut everything down, that you're allowed to take a weekend off, or
[00:30:09] Jolene: Yeah
[00:30:10] nicole: to, to not have your phone next to your bed. Uh, things like that to make you sane and, and well doing this work.
[00:30:18] Jolene: yes. Would agree with you there. Uh, going back to the, um, spending more time in Washington too, y- I, I started thinking about it in terms of school. Like e- when we were in school, if you miss so many days, you don't pass. I mean, you know, you could only miss 10 days of school or an unexcused absence.
[00:30:36] And obviously, if you got mono, you were gonna be out for a week or two or three, whatever it wa- I mean, you know, you get sick, there's obviously concessions. But why, you know, the... I, I just, I think we forget that these people work for us. We're their bosses. We're... They should be accountable to us, and that's [00:31:00] crazy that they're not
[00:31:02] nicole: And it's not partisan. Everybody,
[00:31:06] Jolene: Yep. Yeah
[00:31:07] nicole: right and the left here are in complete agreement here.
[00:31:11] Jolene: so then it made me think, you know, we, o- as we love to talk about our friend Brett, Brad Porteous, and bridge grades, and getting a grade, and taking a look at, you know, if you, if you, if you wanna keep looking at it through the lens of, you know, school, and saying, "Okay, well, here's your, here's your grade for, you know, did you come up with bills?
[00:31:31] Did you work on a bipartisan bill with somebody from the other side? okay, can we talk about the budget process real quickly?
[00:31:37] nicole: absolutely
[00:31:38] Jolene: that is something else. I, I, you know, we've seen the government shut down a couple times now in this last session, and it's just, it's so infuriating.
[00:31:47] If I were a TSA employee, I would go, "What am I doing here? What?" I, like, I...
[00:31:54] nicole: It's
[00:31:55] Jolene: Or, you know, all the government workers. It's horrible. So I'm [00:32:00] thinking that if you can't come up with... And it's hard. I understand there are 12 appropriation bills that you have to pass. The, there, it's, you know, 12 segments to a, the budget that would have to get, that have to get passed if you're going to do a budget.
[00:32:15] And I understand that it is tedious, it is hard, there's negotiating back and forth. but people don't know what their budgets are, if you don't establish a budget. Like, there's no... Because these continuing resolutions only allow for the prior year's or the prior session's budget. So if you, Department of Homeland Security had this as your budget, then that's what...
[00:32:40] If you just do a, a CR, you're gonna, that's gonna be your budget for next year. And I'm sure, you know, that got such, that's such a hot topic, and it got, you know, uh, this huge influx of money that, um, in that last bill, that I'm sure people are going, "No, no, we are not gonna have that same budget next [00:33:00] year."
[00:33:00] Great. Pass a budget. Get it changed in your sub-committees and, and come up with a budget. And if you don't, here's the other thing that I thought of. If you don't, if government can't come up with a budget, then instead of, affecting their salaries, 'cause I remember, I think you and I talked about this.
[00:33:19] Like, if they can't come to an agreement, then they should be punished. Like, let's take away their salaries. Well, one of the things that, that came out when, and when somebody was talking about that was they're all kind of rich and making money off of their stock trading, so, like, cutting off their salary for a week doesn't really make that big of a difference.
[00:33:38] But if you cut the budget, their staff budget, so their staff people, which i- is somewhere between 10 and 20 people for each congressional member, if you cut their staff, okay, that would make an impact. And your staff would be motivated to make sure that you are going to your meetings, and here's some, you know, good information that you can bring [00:34:00] to your sub-committee, because they're, they don't want their, salary cut.
[00:34:04] they cannot go on recess. You cannot leave Washington until that budget is passed. Duh. I mean, again,
[00:34:12] nicole: Well,
[00:34:12] Jolene: the, uh-
[00:34:12] nicole: Yes
[00:34:13] I mean, here's the thing, Jolene, like you said at the top of this, of this argument or this statement, is that so what that it's hard? what
[00:34:23] Jolene: That's why you're there. Yes
[00:34:25] nicole: That is why you're there. You don't have to actually do it. We could have someone else do it for you that wants to do it. life is hard. Life is tedious.
[00:34:36] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:34:36] nicole: it or
[00:34:37] Jolene: Yeah
[00:34:38] nicole: out. And I am with you, and this is, again, not a partisan issue. You're not allowed to leave. You're not allowed... It just doesn't work. Like, somehow the rules so bent for these people while the rest of us are slogging away. I can't believe I'm gonna use this word, like shame on us for continuing to put up with it. [00:35:00] Like, and continuing to, to vote these people in
[00:35:04] And also the 5 to 8% people that are voting the
[00:35:08] Jolene: Ah!
[00:35:08] nicole: of us that can vote, I'm like, come on.
[00:35:12] Jolene: And so maybe we need a different way
[00:35:15] nicole: Maybe we need a different way. I just want some moral- some morality back.
[00:35:20] Jolene: Yeah, I agree. I do think
[00:35:24] nicole: Like, listen, if you can't keep it in your pants, don't run.
[00:35:29] Jolene: Yep
[00:35:30] nicole: This is not a male thing. Just stop. Stop
[00:35:33] Jolene: I, I just, I, I think that just the, and the things that people say to each other and just, I, I, yeah. I think 2028, I honestly, I, and in my heart of hearts I hope 2028 will be the, the campaign of decency.
[00:35:51] nicole: wouldn't that be amazing? Like you're saying about, budget, you don't get a recess. You don't get a gold [00:36:00] star. You don't get to be voted back in again. You don't... Like, enough. are allowing this, all of
[00:36:07] Jolene: Yeah. Right
[00:36:08] nicole: and blue, liberal, uh, conservative, Democrat.
[00:36:12] We're, we are allowing this.
[00:36:14] Jolene: Yep
[00:36:15] nicole: know that it seems so big that like what are we gonna do? Well, vote, number one. for people that matter to you.
[00:36:29] Jolene: And vote in your primaries
[00:36:31] nicole: in your primaries
[00:36:33] Jolene: My gosh, if we've learned nothing this year I think it's that
[00:36:37] nicole: primaries, and also don't be afraid to cross the line, cross your party if you believe in someone else. If they, they are matching more of what you're feeling, you're not going against your party, you're voting with your heart. what this country was, created by, people with heart that wanted
[00:36:59] Jolene: [00:37:00] Mm-hmm.
[00:37:00] Do you have a would you rather?
[00:37:02] nicole: do. Oh,
[00:37:03] Jolene: Let's hear it
[00:37:05] nicole: okay Would you rather donate your organs to those who need them or donate your entire body to science?
[00:37:23] Jolene: Okay, wait, this is such a great question for me because I wanna do both.
[00:37:27] nicole: I know, me too. And that's not partisan either
[00:37:31] Jolene: That's not partisan at all.
[00:37:33] nicole: No
[00:37:34] Jolene: okay. I think if I'm healthy, I would like to donate my organs so that other people can live.
[00:37:41] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:41] Jolene: but if I have some weird disease, like, make sure that they give my body to science so that, um, they can figure it out
[00:37:51] nicole: Yes, I'm with you 1,000%, and in this way, I will allow you both answers.
[00:37:57] Jolene: Okay, thank you. Thank you.
[00:37:59] nicole: allow you
[00:37:59] Jolene: We [00:38:00] need to, we need to make sure our husbands know this too
[00:38:02] nicole: Yes, for sure. And o- on that note about donating your parts, we were talking about at one point, and maybe we will revisit this article, um, it was a New York Times article actually, about this guy that had s- he had a book coming out, and I'm forgetting, forgive me that I can't remember the name of the book right now.
[00:38:24] But he had studied rituals all over the world, the most touching ritual that, he had explored and shared was called the Honor Walk, and I will
[00:38:35] Jolene: Yes.
[00:38:36] nicole: And I'll put it in the show
[00:38:37] Jolene: Yep
[00:38:38] nicole: so, it's so incredible that this woman, who was a nurse, her sister had passed away, and at the time she donated her organs, th- she was horrified, the, the, the, the nurse who was alive, uh, was [00:39:00] horrified at how her sister was treated, how her parts were treated.
[00:39:06] And she this thing called the Honor Walk that is now in many, many hospitals all over the country. And what they do is the person ha- that has died, has donated their and the hospital will s- that, that can, will stand in the hallway the family of the person that has died, st- walks behind their body and their gurney to go to harvest these parts, it couldn't make more sense, and it's shocking that we don't, that this didn't exist until this lovely woman with a big
[00:39:49] Jolene: Ya,
[00:39:50] nicole: said,
[00:39:50] Jolene: ya
[00:39:50] nicole: do the Honor Walk." So I will put that in the show notes because it's something for us all to think about. Like, you know, I, I understand that
[00:39:58] Jolene: Totally agree
[00:39:59] nicole: [00:40:00] faiths, um, but I just... We have these,
[00:40:03] Jolene: Yeah
[00:40:03] nicole: bodies, and if we go early, and
[00:40:07] Jolene: Yeah
[00:40:08] nicole: and share our parts, I think
[00:40:10] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:40:11] nicole: a gift.
[00:40:12] Jolene: Yeah, I would agree. Very nice.
[00:40:14] nicole: Okay
[00:40:14] Jolene: Uh, okay, mine is a little less heavy
[00:40:18] nicole: That, uh, that, listen, it's on brand
[00:40:22] Jolene: Yeah, that is so true. Nicole,
[00:40:26] nicole: Yes, ma'am
[00:40:27] Jolene: would you rather have everyday citizens drawn from a lottery making our laws
[00:40:35] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:35] Jolene: or be able to leave a Google review for your congressman?
[00:40:42] nicole: Oh, I wish we could do both again
[00:40:47] Jolene: Well, maybe I'll just let you. Maybe this is the day that we do both
[00:40:50] nicole: Because the one that you're highlighting about the everyday citizens, this is... Listen, listen, and listeners and viewers, this will be airing [00:41:00] in July, and just remember this episode because in the fall, we will be interviewing and airing this wonderful man named Adam Cronkrite, and he has created this beautiful documentary called Goodbye Politicians, Hello Democracy. And,
[00:41:19] he, uh, did an experiment in Michigan about, a, a democratic lottery, and these people were from all parts of the political spectrum, and they created, laws on COVID.
[00:41:35] It w- it's a beautiful movie, and we're very excited to eventually have him on and share, him and share the film with all of you. So that is that answer. But the Google review for the politicians, girl,
[00:41:49] Jolene: Seriously?
[00:41:50] nicole: imagine? Listen, our rating and reviewing episode,
[00:41:55] Jolene: Right?
[00:41:57] nicole: let's rate
[00:41:57] Jolene: Exactly
[00:41:59] nicole: and you [00:42:00] know they change their tune
[00:42:02] Jolene: Yeah. Right? I mean, as a restaurant, if somebody gives you bad reviews, you change because you don't want that to happen.
[00:42:09] nicole: right
[00:42:10] Jolene: And how m- how many of us use that as a resource to, to look? Why don't we have
[00:42:17] nicole: I mean, that's sort of what Porteous and bridgegrades.org, that's what he's trying to do, that he's, he's, he's grading, you know, to highlight, listen, this person, uh, is working together and trying to make things work, and this person is, just, you know, performing with
[00:42:37] Jolene: Yeah
[00:42:38] nicole: and blahdy, blahdy, blah. I mean,
[00:42:40] Jolene: Yeah
[00:42:40] nicole: But I love this Google review thing.
[00:42:43] Jolene: So we've really just combined two people that we're going to, that we did interview and we're going to interview in that one little question right there, and we've decided we want both
[00:42:53] nicole: That's right, we want both, and there's gonna be a
[00:42:56] Jolene: Yep
[00:42:56] nicole: the show notes, all these resources we just talked about.
[00:42:59] Jolene: You [00:43:00] got a lot of work to do.
[00:43:01] nicole: I do. I do. That's all
[00:43:02] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:43:03] nicole: It's worth
[00:43:04] Jolene: All right
[00:43:04] nicole: All right. Um, thank you, Jolene. Thank you
[00:43:08] Jolene: Thank you
[00:43:08] nicole: viewers of We Got To Talk. We're so grateful for you. press the thumbs up and subscribe.
[00:43:16] It helps us, it helps our algorithm, it helps the show, it helps us keep going
[00:43:22] Jolene: And please share it with a friend and leave a comment. We'd love to hear what you think of this episode or any episode that you've watched, or all the episodes that you've watched, 'cause we know that you've seen many, many of them. So, and we thank you for that.
[00:43:35] nicole: thank you very much. All right,
[00:43:37] Jolene: Thanks everybody.
[00:43:38] nicole: Bye everybody. Bye.
[00:43:40]
