We Answered Your Political Questions
Our inbox received quite a few responses after we threw it out there and asked what you wanted to hear us talk about. We got a little bit of everything, from super thoughtful questions to some pretty nasty pushback. But when you look past all the usual political theater, answering your political questions reveals something pretty wild: when we actually get into the nitty-gritty, the left and the right are usually on the same page.
We started off the mailbag with a hot topic: the massive $600 million renovation of the White House ballroom, which is ruffling feathers because half of that bill falls directly on taxpayers. Interestingly, when you strip away the partisan outrage, the common ground is totally obvious. Upgrades and security reinforcements to the East Wing were genuinely needed, especially after the security breakdowns exposed by that scary Correspondents' Dinner assassination attempt. But the total lack of normal government rules, cost-plus budgeting, or open Requests for Proposals (RFPs) is just madness. Trump operates like a bull in a china shop. He points out infrastructure that actually needs a refresh, but by ignoring Congress and treating public works like a favor for his buddies, he totally alienates the people he needs on his side.
Our audience also wanted us to talk about the sudden shakeup in local politics. Specifically, the New York primary results, where Democratic Socialists swept local platforms. A lot of progressives are panicking, but a closer look at the actual voting data is a total reality check. In a city of millions, only about 5% to 8% of voters actually turned out for the primary. In a typical district, a tiny sliver of 75,000 citizens decided the destiny for everyone else. The media loves to run sensational headlines screaming that a radical fringe is taking over, but the numbers prove the real culprit is a massive lack of engagement from the exhausted majority. Two-thirds of our population belongs to this exhausted majority, and by sitting out the primaries, we are actively letting organized fringes on the extreme wings call the shots.
This dangerous lack of civic engagement is exactly why we want to see a massive overhaul in how we teach kids civics. If we had the power to design a high school civics curriculum based on what we’ve learned doing this podcast, our top takeaways wouldn't just be about memorizing dry facts. We would teach the active art of listening. Training students to actually process and retain what someone is saying, rather than just hovering in place waiting for their turn to fight back. We would replace traditional debates with the mechanics of real compromise, forcing kids to hold different viewpoints while collaborating face-to-face to build an actual solution. And finally, every single high school student would leave the classroom with a physical copy of the U.S. Constitution tucked right in their pocket.
Ultimately, everything we’re trying to achieve through this mailbag episode comes down to wanting basic human decency and intellectual honesty back. This work has totally changed how we consume the news, transforming us from passive consumers of hyper-partisan media into hyper-aware citizens who can see exactly how we are being played by algorithms designed to monetize our rage.
By stepping out of our echo chambers, we’ve found the space to look at complex, gray areas like abortion and gun ownership with real-world compassion instead of rigid, black-and-white judgment. We want our listeners to walk away from this conversation with that exact same sense of liberation, realizing that we have the collective power to dial down the polarization, turn off the toxic feeds, and get actively re-engaged in our democracy.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
David French Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQSKSrQfw78
The Stephen Hawkins Research Profile: https://www.moreincommon.com/our-work/research/)
Stephen Hawkins Interview: https://youtu.be/GpcXMoW2vcg
The White House Ballroom Renovation Project: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-dc-reflecting-pool-renovation-white-house-ballroom-triumphal-arch/
WGTT Switching News Sources for 10 days: https://youtu.be/5wtPeP8XwAk?si=mNyBqXYbdpk-kJD7
Monica Guzmán Interview: https://youtu.be/DqoLxk0-Yqk
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Civic Engagement Report: Check out the direct tracking metrics on national primary voter turnouts and participation dips: https://www.cbo.gov/
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:20] Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome, my friend Jolene.
[00:00:25] Jolene: Welcome to our listeners and viewers. We are excited to bring you this podcast today. We asked you what would you like to hear us talk about? So we threw it out there. We've gotten some, we've gotten some good responses. We got some nasty responses. Um, thank
[00:00:43] nicole: Thank you. We've gotten a lot of, um, interesting questions though, right?
[00:00:48] Jolene: We did, but we got some good questions.
[00:00:50] And I... W- so thank you for all of you that submitted either on our website or, uh, DM'd us or, um, or stopped Nicole on [00:01:00] her elevator and asked her a question. We appreciate each and every one of you.
[00:01:03] nicole: Yes, we do I'm gonna start with something topical. And y'all, most of these questions are actually much more broad, which I find really interesting, because when we get really into the nitty-gritty, you're gonna see that, believe it or not, Jolene and I are pretty much on the same page with this stuff.
[00:01:22] So let's start with this topical one and kinda get it out of the way.
[00:01:26] Jolene: Okay
[00:01:27] nicole: We've heard that the renovation of The White House ballroom is now expected to cost six hundred million dollars, and half of it will come from the taxpayers. Jolene, what are your thoughts about that?
[00:01:44] Jolene: I mean, is there a right answer here? Uh, because I'm not really sure. I do agree that we needed to have a ballroom. I,
[00:01:52] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:52] Jolene: am not opposed to, redecorating, doing construction, building a new [00:02:00] facility or remodeling the existing East Wing, however it is, it turning out to be. but I think in typical Trump fashion, it just got bigger and bigger, and they added more things and, and all that. i- initially this was a project that was supposed to be done without taxpayer money, so he didn't have to go through Congress to, you know, appropriate the, the funds and, and all that. It's still the people's house, and I do think there will be benefits. I don't know if the benefits equal to $300 million
[00:02:34] nicole: It would be, it would be nice to see it, an itemized bill is what I would like to see
[00:02:39] Jolene: Right?
[00:02:40] nicole: because
[00:02:40] Jolene: the contractor working on a cost plus basis
[00:02:43] nicole: Correct.
[00:02:44] Jolene: they vetted? Were they,
[00:02:46] nicole: Were they buddies?
[00:02:48] Jolene: yeah.
[00:02:48] Did this,
[00:02:49] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:50] Jolene: was there an RFP given and, and people were, you
[00:02:53] nicole: What's an RFP?
[00:02:54] Jolene: to... request for, for proposal.
[00:02:57] nicole: Oh, okay
[00:02:58] Jolene: So I think any, all government [00:03:00] requests for proposal, government entities usually have to submit to, you know, three...
[00:03:05] They have to get, you know, out a project and get three bids so that they're not just giving it
[00:03:10] nicole: Yes, yes
[00:03:12] Jolene: was any of that done? I don't know. Uh, and so I
[00:03:15] nicole: I don't think it was done with the pool either. I'm not...
[00:03:17] Jolene: Right? That's the other thing that we're hearing with the reflecting pool, um, that it was just granted to a buddy. Uh,
[00:03:27] nicole: To his poor guy
[00:03:28] Jolene: know, to his bu- maybe to his
[00:03:30] nicole: This poor guy. I don't know. It's kind of, it's kind of madness. Yeah.
[00:03:35] Jolene: right? A- and I think we've all, we've all come to, um, expect it, which is so sad that we're just, i- you know, that we think this is what he's gonna do. Um, so sorry to make this really long. Yes, I think it was needed. Did he go about it the right way? No. And is that probably going to be the theme of most things regarding Trump? He's doing things that [00:04:00] probably should be done, in a lot of instances, but he just goes about it the wrong way, and it just, makes
[00:04:06] nicole: Yeah. I think in a way, Jolene, I would actually agree with you. I mean, I don't think a lot of presidents call to attention things that needed to be updated, like s- the, the plane, uh, Air Force One, and, and those things, it's not surprising, are very important to him, to Trump. He is a, he is a image person, and so he goes in and says, "Oh, this is tired."
[00:04:33] But he's made so many enemies that people immediately are like, "No," versus, "Oh, you kind of have a point, but maybe we should do it a little, you know, in the way that it's been done, where we have Congress approve and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But like you've said, we've said so many times on this podcast that he's like a bull in a china shop and, and, [00:05:00] and he would actually do a lot better, I think, if he followed some rules, and then people maybe get on board.
[00:05:09] I mean, I've just-- never occurred to me that there is a point, obviously, they just had that... It wasn't just, but when they had that event,
[00:05:18] the press co- the correspondents dinner, and there was an, an assassination attempt, and there was bare- like the security didn't work. So to me, I was like, "Oh, I guess there should be a secure..."
[00:05:31] I mean, it's sad. We're in a sad time, and maybe... Listen, I guess there's always been assassination attempts, but it feels like it's a very sad time that we need a ballroom that is secure so that no one gets hurt. Um,
[00:05:45] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:05:45] nicole: anyway, long answer to that question.
[00:05:50] Jolene: Okay. In the context of us trying to, um, establish our podcast and [00:06:00] expand our podcast, what would be your ideal impossible guest? Alive or dead?
[00:06:08] nicole: Alive or dead?
[00:06:10] Jolene: or their fictional character. Like, don't you love The West Wing? Wouldn't you love to have
[00:06:17] nicole: Oh, Judd Bartlett?
[00:06:20] You watch "The West Wing," right?
[00:06:22] Jolene: I haven't seen it
[00:06:23] nicole: Oh, he, he played the president, or that was the president's name. See, you know who I thought of? Prince
[00:06:33] Jolene: Oh.
[00:06:36] nicole: You said, it, it, yeah, it's, it's an impossible guest 'cause he's dead
[00:06:37] Jolene: like Prince, okay
[00:06:40] nicole: and I love him and, and maybe, and just very selfishly he could come on and... Okay, let's get real
[00:06:50] Jolene: That's a good
[00:06:51] nicole: You do? I mean, he's, he's amazing. Who would you have
[00:06:56] Jolene: Well, I would have Jesus, but,
[00:06:58] nicole: You would?
[00:06:59] Jolene: Prince, that's [00:07:00] okay.
[00:07:01] nicole: You would have Jesus? What would you ask Jesus?
[00:07:05] Jolene: Oh my gosh. I'd have to really prep for that one.
[00:07:09] nicole: Would you?
[00:07:09] Jolene: Uh, but yeah, I
[00:07:10] nicole: Why would you have to prep for him? He's gonna welcome you no matter what
[00:07:15] Jolene: only got... I know, but if we've only got 45 minutes with him,
[00:07:18] nicole: I would, I think Jesus might give you a little bit more. He might give you a little bit more
[00:07:22] Jolene: he's got a lot of stuff going on. So I just feel like he's gonna go, his, his people will say, "You got 45 minutes, and you better be prepped and ready to go."
[00:07:32] I would really wanna make, be sure that I asked him the right questions
[00:07:37] nicole: I'm gonna ask him, "How can you help us, please?"
[00:07:42] Jolene: Right?
[00:07:43] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:43] Jolene: I think he would be the ideal guest for us
[00:07:46] nicole: Well, listen
[00:07:49] Jolene: he, um, with love, compassionate
[00:07:54] nicole: he'd set some records straight. Let me... I th- that's what I need to say, right? He'd set some [00:08:00] records straight because
[00:08:01] Jolene: totally
[00:08:02] nicole: about how in our David French episode, shout out David, we just had such a great time, uh, speaking with him. But he was talking about how, how history is u- used for a purpose, like how we re- rewrite the history in order to sell our narrative.
[00:08:22] And as he was saying that, I was thinking about, and again, this is in regards to your impossible guest, Jesus, I was thinking about while he, while David was talking about that, having taken classes in religion at University of Iowa, and reading the Bible for the first time, the Old Testament and the New Testament, I was sort of struck by actually how, and I mean this in the, in the most kind way, how benign the text is, and how pointed the people are that use it.
[00:08:58] Jolene: Mm-hmm. [00:09:00] Right.
[00:09:00] nicole: That... and that was
[00:09:01] Jolene: any argument
[00:09:02] nicole: and that was shocking to me 'cause I was like, "Hold on.
[00:09:06] Jolene: Yeah
[00:09:07] nicole: how are they using the text for this or this or that?" And so I, you know what, girl? I'm, uh, I'd love to have Jesus on. I'll, I'll, I'll s- there you go, because I want him to set the record straight. You know who also would be cool?
[00:09:21] Is Pope Leo
[00:09:24] Jolene: Oh, okay
[00:09:26] nicole: I'd like to talk to him too
[00:09:28] Jolene: Oh, yeah. He'd be great.
[00:09:30] nicole: He'd be great.
[00:09:31] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:09:32] nicole: He'd be great. All right.
[00:09:34] Jolene: out to him
[00:09:37] nicole: I'll get in touch with his people.
[00:09:38] Jolene: to Jesus 'cause I talk to him every day.
[00:09:40] nicole: And I'll reach out to Poplio.
[00:09:42] Jolene: to Pope
[00:09:43] nicole: Yeah.
[00:09:43] Jolene: Perfect.
[00:09:45] nicole: Okay. What is the most interesting thing that you have learned from our guests so far?
[00:09:50] Jolene: I mean, I loved talking to David French just because we've, we've read his stuff so often
[00:09:58] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:59] Jolene: and for so [00:10:00] long. Like, he was such an interesting person to actually get to talk to in real life. I thought Stephen Hawkins was so intriguing, and
[00:10:08] nicole: I agree
[00:10:09] Jolene: from such a diverse background of, you know, strict conservative to then ultra progressive and, you know, kind of everything in between. And the work that he's doing now to kind of, you know, form some opinions on why we think the way that we do, and we vote the way that we do, and we politicize the things that we do, I think that he was just really interesting, and I hope to have him on
[00:10:35] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:36] Jolene: after he comes out with, like, the Democratic version of, of his
[00:10:40] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:41] Jolene: and...
[00:10:41] nicole: Hidden Tribes 2.0 he was talking about,
[00:10:44] Jolene: I just think that he articulated so well why Republicans or why people voted for Trump the way that they did, and kind of the, the categories that, that they kind of fit into, was so intriguing. Because, you [00:11:00] know, you've heard me say 100 times, I had two choices, so I mean, I chose Trump 'cause I didn't want Kamala, and I thought he'd be better than her. But, but there was so... You know, everybody had different reasons. And so to be able t- for him to, to get really granular and, and, um, present that information, I just was, was truly intriguing
[00:11:23] nicole: I mean, I just loved speaking with Stephen, and I loved speaking with David as well. I mean, it was funny, they aired back to back, which... And David mentioned more in common, uh, not knowing that we had just interviewed him. It hadn't aired yet. But one thing that David said that I can't stop thinking about the example he gave, he wa- said, " Trump has had more effect on the evangelical church than the evangelical church has had on Trump. And then he took it a step further about, like, corrupt politicians seem to affect the voter more [00:12:00] than the voter affects the politician, so that we then bend to whatever is presented,
[00:12:07] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:12:07] nicole: be Trump.
[00:12:09] Like, and, and, and David was very sweet about it. Like, you had admitted, "Yeah, I voted for Trump. I don't know how I feel about it," yada, yada. And he was like, "I, you know, I didn't judge my friends. I just disagreed with them," I just never thought of it that way before, and I found that really, really interesting.
[00:12:27] don't know if there's freedom in that. It's just something to be really aware of, I think, that we are recording on June 25th.
[00:12:37] Uh, on Tuesday was the New York primary. There's a lot of buzz around the Democratic Socialist, flood of, of people coming in. and I think there's a lot of fear around that. I find this all really intriguing because people are they're turning a blind [00:13:00] eye, um, to some really hateful rhetoric that's coming out of some of these candidates.
[00:13:07] Where when it comes out of Trump, you're really angry about it, and when it comes out of these people, you're, uh, holding them up. And I think we need to really, uh, look in the mirror and demand more. I am all for taking care of each other and change, but I, I think we deserve better. I don't care what side of the aisle you're on.
[00:13:31] As we've talked about, uh, with David and with other guests and with each other, I think you and I are a huge fan of decency and bringing that back into the, uh, political climate,
[00:13:45] Jolene: Yep. If you could get one group of citizens together to solve a problem, what would the problem be?
[00:13:54] nicole: Polarization
[00:13:55] And the reason I say that is because I feel like if we solved [00:14:00] polarization, we could solve the rest of it. Because right now I feel like nothing really gets done. We're just so ready to beat each other up and fight at all costs. And I think, again, we're-- I'm bringing up David again, but he talked about the exhausted majority, and that's something...
[00:14:19] That's another thing I learned that I think is important to reiterate to our gue- our, our listeners and our viewers, is that it's fascinating that the exhausted middle is two-thirds of the population. Uh, it's only a third on either side and, and it's the left and the right. It's both. The rest of us in the exhausted middle are not the, not moderate.
[00:14:44] We're in the middle, meaning... I mean, the exhausted majority. Sorry, I keep saying middle. The exhausted majority, they can be on the right, they can be in the middle, they can be in the left, and they are over it, and they're tired and, and don't come out and vote. [00:15:00] Jolene?
[00:15:00] Jolene: in the primaries that have just happened, in, in all the primaries up to this point, anywhere between 5 and 8% of the people of the electorate are voting in these primaries, so that you're getting the, the Democratic socialists who
[00:15:15] nicole: They're very well organized.
[00:15:17] Jolene: a well-oiled
[00:15:18] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
[00:15:20] Jolene: w- I mean, this, um, Sh- Chevalier,
[00:15:24] nicole: Mm-hmm. That's her name.
[00:15:25] Jolene: say it?
[00:15:25] nicole: Yeah
[00:15:25] Jolene: That, I mean, she was the one that, that, um, had organized... She was a community
[00:15:30] nicole: Yeah.
[00:15:31] Jolene: and
[00:15:31] nicole: Yeah
[00:15:32] Jolene: with the Columbia protests and the, and the tents and all of that. she's a, she's going to be a congressperson,
[00:15:40] nicole: Yeah. I mean, and, and the, the Democrats that are not part of the Democratic Socialist group, they're waking up because they're realizing they're not organized. They're not speaking to their people. But also, Okay, I'm a total nerd about voting and being a [00:16:00] citizen in this country and being a responsible person in the world. women didn't always have the right to vote. People of color didn't always have the right to vote. It is a big deal, and it's a privilege, and I don't know why anyone would let someone else decide our destiny.
[00:16:19] And so what I'm finding, I can't speak for Americans, New Yorkers love to complain. We are professional complainers. And when you hear that there are eight or 10 million people here, and there's like... I don't, I'm, now I don't re- really know how many registered voters there are, but they're in the...
[00:16:41] Let's say there's eight million. I'm just gonna make it up, okay? In our district, 75,000 people voted in the primary. That's it. 75,000 people. And so then the media goes, "The Democratic socialists are taking over." Are they? Or have most of us just decided to [00:17:00] sit it out?
[00:17:01] Jolene: Yeah. Yep
[00:17:02] nicole: there is this lens that I think I'm grateful that we do this podcast because it's like, hold on.
[00:17:10] We can get really freaked out and scared and sad, or we could actually go to the polls and make some changes
[00:17:17] Jolene: I think it's education. I feel
[00:17:20] nicole: That's a good one. I'm with you
[00:17:23] Jolene: that in the 2028 election, I hope someone takes that on as their pillar
[00:17:28] nicole: Yeah
[00:17:29] Jolene: going to, to try to promote because I think, one, education should be bipartisan.
[00:17:36] nicole: Absolutely
[00:17:37] Jolene: I think education then, um, affects your crime rate. I think education affects the economy. I think... I mean, I think a l- so much stems from education
[00:17:48] nicole: Education affects polarization
[00:17:51] Jolene: There you
[00:17:51] nicole: There you go
[00:17:52] Jolene: So I think that's the one thing. I think if we could come, you know, a- and America has just plummeted
[00:17:58] nicole: I know. [00:18:00] Why? Why have we done this?
[00:18:04] Jolene: It's not for lack of funding. the other problem here. So yep
[00:18:08] nicole: So where's the money going?
[00:18:10] Jolene: Right.
[00:18:11] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:12] Jolene: Okay.
[00:18:13] nicole: Okay, this is a very pointed question, and I thought about not asking you this, but I think we should both address it. o-one thing, everybody, that happens is that we get a lot of questions to Jolene, um, and we've talked about how our conservative id- audience tends to be quieter, shyer about asking questions than our angry lefties that wanna ha- that are demanding, um, answers.
[00:18:43] But, but I'm just gonna also defend Jolene. Jolene is not Trump. End of story. Like, so this is the question, and I think let's answer this one together. How about we do that? Okay?
[00:18:55] Jolene: All right
[00:18:57] nicole: Given the Ebola [00:19:00] epidemic ravaging Africa, is there an argument that US foreign aid is something other than giving money away to countries that have no impact on the US?
[00:19:10] What does Jolene feel about the US cutting foreign aid?
[00:19:15] Jolene: I think we got several questions about cutting aid for, foreign aid, cutting money for, uh, Medicaid.
[00:19:22] nicole: Medical research
[00:19:24] Jolene: okay, so I will say A- and whether you say that it started with DOGE
[00:19:29] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:30] Jolene: going in and trying to look at the f- fraud, abuse, and waste, and then you had, Nick Shirley, the YouTuber who, you know, went
[00:19:38] nicole: Oh, with Minneapolis. Yeah
[00:19:39] Jolene: yep, and went in, and now he's in California doing the same thing.
[00:19:43] And okay, would you agree that there's a lot of fraud, abuse, and waste in government?
[00:19:48] nicole: the waste, fraud, and abuse is such a Trumpian, uh, Elon Muskian phrasing that it, it-- I'm just gonna tell you what it, the gut reaction makes me go like [00:20:00] that.
[00:20:01] Jolene: Okay
[00:20:01] nicole: I think there's... Do I think people are bloating the system? Hells to the yes. Yes, I would agree. What I would say to you, Jolene, that is, I think, we've talked about this before, like money in Africa, th- soft power, I think is invaluable, and we, I think we've screwed up.
[00:20:25] I think that we have screwed up pulling s- uh, aid out of that country to keep people, uh, well. Like it ef- like the world is global now, so anything that if there's any Ebola outbreak, COVID, like it's c- it's coming for us, too. Like it's not a, it's not a, "Hey, that's not our problem," to me.
[00:20:49] Jolene: So, uh, right. Okay. And, and I would agree that we are one of the richest countries in the
[00:20:55] world
[00:20:55] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:56] Jolene: we have... I mean, a- as a, as a Christian, we have [00:21:00] the obligation to help those countries that, aren't as fortunate as we are. But there's a lot of abuse of the money that we give, and when you give it to...
[00:21:10] I mean, w- look at Haiti. You give money to Haiti, and then it's only the corrupt government that keeps it, and they don't give it to their people. trying to help some of these countries, um, with foreign aid, are we making the best use of our money?
[00:21:25] And so the fact that the USAID, that we cut off that funding because there was so much, um, fraud that was within that program, I can see why we did it. Now, I haven't heard a bunch r- since the, you
[00:21:40] nicole: I haven't, I haven't either
[00:21:42] Jolene: there, and so I don't know what's come
[00:21:44] nicole: Right
[00:21:45] Jolene: they, did they turn the spigot back on and, and did someone take it? Ideally, someone said, "Enough's enough. We went in. We found out those, those organizations or those countries or those, um, you [00:22:00] know, NGOs
[00:22:00] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:01] Jolene: that were truly doing good, and we said, "Great. You're, you warrant having American, um, r- revenue,
[00:22:10] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:11] Jolene: happy to help you with this."
[00:22:12] Because ultimately it does affect the entire world. A- again, that's the idealistic person in me that thinks that, again, the intent was right. Implementation, probably not
[00:22:26] nicole: And, and, and honestly, Jolene, I'm not totally in disagreement with you. what I s- struggle with, and, and I just think it's more human nature, but I also think it's w- how the Trump administration has handled everything. It's everything's very extreme. I'm not interested in throwing our money, United States throwing our money away to anyone.
[00:22:45] and so, uh, my thought is, well, why don't we fix it? Now, is that a... Right? Like, why don't we just fix it? Like, and I know that's easier said than done, I get it, but, like, you guys, we're smart. [00:23:00] Why don't we fix it? Why... Like, wouldn't that be great if we actually... our money went to, uh, organizations to help people, and, you also cut out situations that are over- that are bloated.
[00:23:14] Like, I just feel like we just go, "No, done." I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe they thought, "Well, this is the way we need to fix it," but then they didn't fix it
[00:23:24] Jolene: Or maybe they have and we just haven't heard about it, you know? I mean, like, is it not a story anymore if it was fixed and you know? I mean, like if they, if,
[00:23:33] nicole: Well, I don't think-- I don't th-- I don't, but I also don't think it's fixed because, because they're having this health crisis
[00:23:42] Jolene: Right, but I think th- the USAID went to so many different, you know, countries and so many different programs, and, uh, I mean, it was so extensive. And it was so extensive that nobody really knew where everything was going.
[00:23:58] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:59] Jolene: you know, and [00:24:00] again, we hear about the stories of the,
[00:24:02] you know, the fraud, um, but has anybody done then a follow-up story of, hey, they figured out that this is a great organization that is worthy, and
[00:24:12] nicole: Great
[00:24:13] Jolene: and we started helping them again?
[00:24:14] No,
[00:24:15] nicole: Right.
[00:24:15] Jolene: story and no one
[00:24:16] nicole: Well then that, yeah, and our attention spans are, you know, the size of a flea, and we just move on.
[00:24:23] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:24:23] nicole: Yeah
[00:24:25] Jolene: So, I mean, I guess my answer is, I think there's so much abuse, of the money, and I think we have so much money and we give away so much money that, um, you're right, they went in with a, with a, uh, chainsaw instead of a scalpel as, you know, as we saw with Elon. so here we are have any of your changed since you started this podcast?
[00:24:51] nicole: Yeah. I would say my whole experience has changed. I think about things differently. [00:25:00] I-- Any, any story that I read or listen to or watch, I am very aware of the voice it's coming from, and it either takes the heat off or it's just interesting, or I can be like, "Okay, this, this media is allowing me to have my own thoughts and figure it out."
[00:25:24] that's been really liberating to me, Because I do see a lot of my friends who are liberal get really, really angry, and their nervous systems are all jacked, and I feel for them. And, you know, they're still mad at me th-that I won't correct you, and I'm thinking, "Really?" Like, that's sort of not the point of this.
[00:25:49] And, so have my views changed? I mean, every time we have a guest on, I'm just thrilled and surprised and honored, like, that [00:26:00] not only that someone would take the time to speak with us, but that we have this platform that we can learn from all these incredibly smart and thoughtful people. And that gives me real hope that there are a lot of people that aren't just angry and frustrated and
[00:26:18] Jolene: But I think that probably goes more to you just being an empathetic person, and a kind soul, you want everyone to be happy.
[00:26:29] nicole: I do
[00:26:30] Jolene: everyone to be heard and seen and felt and, I don't think that everyone feels like
[00:26:36] nicole: I think you're right
[00:26:38] Jolene: they get pleasure from hurting other people,
[00:26:41] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:41] Jolene: they get...
[00:26:42] It's a release for them to, you know, feel anger
[00:26:46] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:47] Jolene: that they can say that they're angry.
[00:26:49] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:50] Jolene: Because really, they might be angry about something else over
[00:26:53] nicole: Right
[00:26:53] Jolene: but it's going to come out in their political views, and that's
[00:26:57] nicole: Yeah. Have you, have you had views [00:27:00] changed since doing this?
[00:27:01] Jolene: yes. I've definitely, as you said, been able to l- look at news differently, um, and see how that we're, that we're being played, and I don't think I would've dug into that. I think I would've stayed with my Fox News, with my blinders on, and this is right and everybody else is wrong.
[00:27:24] nicole: I mean, having that episode that we did where we switched our news media for 10 days,
[00:27:29] Jolene: Mm-hmm
[00:27:29] nicole: now would be tricky because we both watch, listen to, and read a lot of independent stuff, but we should probably do it again or maybe do it near the midterms to see how, just to see
[00:27:39] Jolene: Yeah
[00:27:40] nicole: how, how everyone's being played.
[00:27:42] I felt, I found that to be super liberating. Like, uh, just thinking out loud with you, like I'm still pro-choice. You're still pro-life. Those views haven't changed, but the way I understand your pro-lifeism is so much more rich [00:28:00] than it was before.
[00:28:02] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:02] nicole: Like, uh,
[00:28:03] Jolene: And I
[00:28:03] nicole: and I'm...
[00:28:04] Jolene: same,
[00:28:05] nicole: guns too.
[00:28:06] Jolene: uh, see, and I would say the same thing about, like I am pro-life. I believe that life begins at conception, but man, I also see so many people that have been in bad situations, That they are, you know, I could understand why they would choose that, and I think that has come from just being open to
[00:28:29] nicole: Yeah
[00:28:30] Jolene: I have only allowed my brain think one way for so long, and I could conjure up, "Okay, you can't have an abortion because you're just having unprotected sex, and so you should not have an abortion. You know what? You don't want to have an abortion? Get on birth control." That, I think, was my mindset for so long, that I wasn't able to listen to any other stories of,
[00:28:53] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:53] Jolene: "Okay, but this happened,"
[00:28:55] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:55] Jolene: you know, "This was..."
[00:28:56] And, and, and you start to listen to other [00:29:00] scenarios that aren't black and white, and
[00:29:01] nicole: you go there is grey area here
[00:29:04] and
[00:29:04] Jolene: it is sad.
[00:29:05] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:06] Jolene: that has allowed me... Having conversations with
[00:29:08] nicole: you has
[00:29:09] Jolene: allowed me to see, that, know, there, to look at situations with compassion instead of black and white
[00:29:18] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And even when we did the gun episode, for instance, I was so anti-gun, and then...
[00:29:25] Jolene: and I'm still anti-gun for... So like that, that belief has not changed. But what has changed in doing the podcast was that I did so much research, I talked to so many gun owners, and I understood in a way why they're so important to them.
[00:29:44] nicole: So it wasn't like all of these images, just like you're talking about, these black and white, this is how it is. When you start to understand how other people walk through the world, why they might think whatever is important,
[00:29:59] Jolene: [00:30:00] Mm-hmm.
[00:30:00] nicole: really just sort of opens up my mind to know that there's just other people that are not like exactly,
[00:30:11] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:30:12] nicole: right?
[00:30:12] I mean, even when I think about when we had Monica Guzman on, and she talked about that water bill, I can't stop thinking about that water bill. And how the Seattleites were like, "How could you vote for Trump?" And yada, yada, yada. And they're like, "There's a water bill that if Trump is gonna, I guess, pass it or not undo it, and we need that water.
[00:30:35] We're farmers." And you're like, "Oh, wow.
[00:30:40] Jolene: Yeah
[00:30:40] nicole: disagree, but if I were you, I guess I would feel the same way." That's a good question.
[00:30:47] Jolene: I think the, the knowledge that we both have now of social media ha- has absolutely changed, I think changed us. it makes us almost angry that we're being [00:31:00] played, and, being fed the, the same narratives to, to make us get angrier and
[00:31:05] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:06] Jolene: Um, and I think it was Stephen Hawkins who said, you know, whether that's deliberate by Russians or Chinese or, you know, um, somebody outside of America who wants to see America fail, a really good job.
[00:31:21] nicole: gosh. He, he said, he said, like, with TikTok that, like, in China it's educational, and in y- the United States it's a toxic cancer that's rotting our brains,
[00:31:33] Jolene: Right
[00:31:34] nicole: And yet, I'm not mad at my friends, but I'm like, "You know this is happening, and you're still choosing to do this to yourself or to take in this information?
[00:31:47] 'Cause it's, it's only hurting you." And, and as the friend, I wanna be like, "I don't want you to hurt anymore 'cause this sucks, and we're all getting played."
[00:31:56] Jolene: aren't we able to determine what we [00:32:00] want in our feed? Like, if I only wanted videos of dogs in my feed,
[00:32:06] nicole: You've done it.
[00:32:07] Jolene: just
[00:32:08] nicole: Haven't you done it? Haven't th- sometimes that you're like, "I can't deal." I'm getting some more dogs, by the way. They're so cute. I love... And pandas
[00:32:18] Jolene: well, and even all of this, um, this love for America,
[00:32:23] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:23] Jolene: know? I mean, this has been with the, you know, with the FIFA and, and the
[00:32:28] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:28] Jolene: Cup coming here. And I mean, like, if I only wanted to see the, you know, the happy videos of Germans dancing and two-stepping in Texas, I mean, why aren't we in control of that?
[00:32:41] Why are we al- why are these platforms allowed to put into our feed things that we're not choosing?
[00:32:48] nicole: Right
[00:32:48] Jolene: h- that pretty a s- a, a simple thing?
[00:32:52] nicole: Well, I think, I mean, but it's not--
[00:32:53] Jolene: TV
[00:32:54] nicole: I think it's on purpose
[00:32:56] Jolene: watch sports," but then the TV keeps changing channels and [00:33:00] shows me porn.
[00:33:01] nicole: Right. But I think, but that's...
[00:33:03] Jolene: to watch sports?
[00:33:04] nicole: I didn't see any of the happy FIFA stuff. You were-- the conservative was getting all the c- the happy FIFA stuff. I didn't know what you were talking about. Then you started sending me the happy FIFA stuff, and all of a sudden now I'm getting it because I like it. But it's like, it's gross because they want us to stay angry at each other
[00:33:28] Jolene: Right
[00:33:29] nicole: that makes them more money.
[00:33:32] You're the one that taught me this, if anything. Money and power, money and power, money and power. I didn't believe it, totally naive, and you're right. You're right,
[00:33:43] Jolene: Unfortunately
[00:33:43] nicole: unfortunately. All right,
[00:33:46] Jolene: Now.
[00:33:46] nicole: have a question for you.
[00:33:47] If you had the power, what are each of your top three takeaways from doing this work that you would like taught in high school civics [00:34:00] curriculums?
[00:34:00] Jolene: God, that's so hard because one, I don't remember what I learned in civics. Sorry, Mr. Korselman.
[00:34:09] nicole: Yeah, but you're gonna create your own curriculum. So what you've l- so what we've learned in this podcast, what are three takeaways that you would like to impart to high school students? I have one that's coming off the top of my head
[00:34:23] Jolene: Okay, let me hear it
[00:34:26] nicole: Learning to listen
[00:34:30] Jolene: Can you teach that in, in a civics class curriculum though?
[00:34:33] nicole: Why not?
[00:34:34] Jolene: Oh, okay.
[00:34:35] nicole: Why not? Why not? Because I think when we learn to listen, like, the possibilities are endless. And what I mean by that, 'cause we tend to be in a, a world right now where... And I've learned to listen it has been the biggest gift of doing this podcast with you, is that I sit here, yes, I'm prepared, [00:35:00] but I come in and I'm like, "I don't know what my friend Jolene's gonna say."
[00:35:05] And I'm not sitting here going, "Okay, I'm gonna wait for her to finish so that I can say what I need to say," 'cause that's what a lot of us do these days. Maybe we always did, but we're certainly doing it now because we're just so ready to fight with each other.
[00:35:18] Jolene: Yeah
[00:35:19] nicole: But being able to listen and to get, and go, "Oh.
[00:35:25] Hmm," and then, like, retain that, and I think that that, in a civics course, you're teaching people how to communicate, how to, how to work out problems, how to
[00:35:35] Jolene: Okay. I love that. And so then I would take that one step further and I would say instead of debating,
[00:35:42] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:42] Jolene: that we do the opposite and we create a, how do you compromise? How do you take an issue that you both have different opinions on, but how do you come together to, to create a solution?
[00:35:55] Because we found that with the, with the ladies that we interviewed
[00:35:57] nicole: Yes
[00:35:58] Jolene: that you had very [00:36:00] different opinions about whatever the topic is, but you've gotta, you have to come together to provide an answer.
[00:36:08] nicole: So maybe the, maybe it's what can we, what can we come together on?
[00:36:11] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think everybody's gotta have a, um
[00:36:18] nicole: A cookie dough bar?
[00:36:20] Jolene: No. Everybody's gotta have Constitution of the United States in their pocket
[00:36:26] nicole: I think that's a great idea. I'm down with that. I don't even own one. I think I get, I think I gotta get one. I think I gotta click that out and I gotta get one.
[00:36:35] Jolene: Do you feel more encouraged or discouraged since we've started this podcast?
[00:36:41] nicole: Can I say both?
[00:36:43] Jolene: Yeah
[00:36:44] nicole: changes, sometimes it changes honestly minute by minute. Um, there are, there are moments that I am walking through the world so excited that we get to do this thing, and we get to learn, and we [00:37:00] get to talk to all these amazing people, and I get to learn from you. And then there are times that I am responding to something hateful on YouTube, and I feel gut punched.
[00:37:14] And then I take a deep breath, and I respond, and maybe they respond kindly, and I am encouraged again. Like, so it's a very, you know, I, I can be-- I can look at the, the, the Democratic primary in New York and feel gutted, and then I can, um, listen to the David French episode that we just did and be so excited that we get to do this thing.
[00:37:41] Like, it is a very
[00:37:43] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:37:43] nicole: up and down... This work is hard. That's what I remember with Monica, where it made me feel kind of less crazy at how hard this work is. Because it is a very David and Goliath thing that we're [00:38:00] doing
[00:38:00] Jolene: Uh, I think though, I still go back to, uh, having blinders on
[00:38:03] nicole: 嗯。
[00:38:04] Jolene: to us working together
[00:38:06] nicole: 哼。
[00:38:06] Jolene: on this.
[00:38:07] nicole: 哼。
[00:38:08] Jolene: and so I feel like we've grown so much, uh, and that gives me encouragement. And I also think that w- we're able to dive into things that I probably wouldn't have dove, dived into.
[00:38:22] nicole: dived into,
[00:38:24] Jolene: Dived into?
[00:38:24] nicole: I think
[00:38:25] Jolene: ultimately I'm encouraged because I think had I not able to explore so much that we have, that, um, I would have maybe just stayed angry, or
[00:38:36] nicole: Yeah
[00:38:37] Jolene: only been defending Trump, or I would have only been, seeing one side of
[00:38:41] nicole: Yeah
[00:38:42] Jolene: I think that now I'm able to kinda see the forest through the trees, and I have some optimism because I think that kinda seeing that, uh, not only what social media's doing to us, and it maybe having an influence from, you know, bad actors, [00:39:00] but that, if we're being really optimistic, that things could change, that we're bringing respect ba- I mean, maybe we've gotten as low as we possibly could go, and we're only going to bring respect and decorum and, compromise.
[00:39:16] nicole: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Before we go, one last question, 'cause this, I think it ties into
[00:39:25] Jolene: Yes
[00:39:26] nicole: what you just said. What are you most excited and/or curious about in connection with the upcoming midterms?
[00:39:37] Jolene: I think we are going to find out what direction this country is gonna go. I mean, I, I know that every election cycle that, you know, it, it, we can change the trajectory. But I feel like this is a really important one because you're gonna get people who w- [00:40:00] with Trump not on the ballot, it'll be re- it'll be interesting to see what Republicans come out and vote,
[00:40:05] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:06] Jolene: um, do they feel empowered, um, to come out and vote? are they gonna throw their hands up and go, "Let's see what you got, Democrats. Just take it. We
[00:40:16] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:40:18] Jolene: with the Democrats, is there going to be a swing to the left, which, you know, I think, uh, w- about on monews this morning, that would be every Republican's dream is to see...
[00:40:32] You know?
[00:40:33] nicole: Yeah, 'cause-
[00:40:33] Jolene: would be so much harder to fight, or I mean, so much easier to fight.
[00:40:37] nicole: I mean, part of me, I'm, I'm with you. Like, I feel like the... talking about, like, human nature, and I think we were talking to David about it, that, that if it does swing far left, it's Trumpian in the other way.
[00:40:49] Jolene: Mm-hmm
[00:40:50] nicole: if it overcorrects in the midterms, there is no way a Democrat will win president in 2028.
[00:40:57] No way. And I've just... And [00:41:00] I think I can confidently say that, 'cause I just confidently said that. Um, but that's something that I've... Right? But that's something that I'm learning. Like, okay, that this is... I'm watching human nature, I'm seeing... So, uh, uh, excited, I, I would say I'm more curious. I... Gosh, I would love-- We've talked about this with David.
[00:41:19] I would love a situation where Talarico wins and Pa- and,
[00:41:23] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:24] nicole: and Paxton loses, and so that we bring, uh, more decency back. I think that would be really exciting. I'm not sure that's going to happen, but you know what? It is only June 25th, and so much can happen, as we know, in a day, let alone...
[00:41:42] So who knows what's gonna happen? And this might be a wake-up call for the, quote-unquote, "moderate Democrats" who are actually progressive compared to what's going on. So, like, let's get real about what's really happening here. But for you progressive liberal Democrats that are not part of the, the Democratic Socialist movement, you gotta [00:42:00] wake up.
[00:42:00] You gotta wake up now. Now. Now. You don't have any more time. You gotta wake up. You gotta do what you gotta do to get people engaged. End of story. That's what I think.
[00:42:11] Jolene: uh,
[00:42:11] nicole: Y-
[00:42:11] Jolene: I would say for Republicans, you don't have to live under Trump's
[00:42:15] nicole: Yes.
[00:42:16] Jolene: know? I mean, y- now you don't have to worry
[00:42:18] nicole: Ugh, I wish. He's still bullying. He did it, he did it yesterday that amazing bipartisan... I wanna shout out to that amazing bipartisan housing bill. Oi
[00:42:32] Jolene: Although if he doesn't do anything, it'll still pass, i- if he doesn't veto it.
[00:42:36] nicole: do you have a would you rather, my dear?
[00:42:38] Jolene: Yes.
[00:42:44] Do you wanna go
[00:42:45] nicole: Sure, if you'd like me to.
[00:42:47] Jolene: Sure. Do you want to?
[00:42:48] nicole: This one's just dumb. But I-- And, and the reason it's dumb is because I, I thought this could be kinda serious. I was a little nervous about this particular episode, so I thought I'd make it funny [00:43:00] and, and easy for you. I don't know if it's easy, actually.
[00:43:03] Would you rather have a permanent unibrow or no eyebrows at all?
[00:43:14] Jolene: Do I get to pluck the unibrow?
[00:43:19] nicole: I know I think that's only fair,
[00:43:24] Jolene: Right. I mean, like, you, do you have to do it every day, though?
[00:43:26] nicole: I would imagine it do.
[00:43:28] Jolene: every day?
[00:43:28] nicole: was thinking about, like, could you embrace it like it's a fashion s- like it's a fashion statement?
[00:43:34] Jolene: Could feather it
[00:43:36] nicole: You could feather it. That's so Iowan of you
[00:43:40] Jolene: but these days if you, I mean, you can get them tattooed, you can
[00:43:44] nicole: I know.
[00:43:45] Jolene: ones,
[00:43:46] nicole: aren't eyebrows important for your eyes? Aren't they important to, like, keep the dust out?
[00:43:53] Jolene: I thought that was your eyelashes
[00:43:54] nicole: That too. Your eyebrows have to have a purpose. I think it's also... [00:44:00] What do eyebrows do? Listener and viewer, I think, I think they help get stuff out of your eyes, but w- what do I know? All right, so what are you picking?
[00:44:10] Jolene: Oh, give me, give me no eyebrows at all.
[00:44:14] nicole: I knew it, but
[00:44:14] Jolene: bangs, and so I, if I didn't have any eyebrows, I could kinda hide it. I
[00:44:19] nicole: Yeah.
[00:44:19] Jolene: wouldn't see it.
[00:44:20] nicole: Yeah
[00:44:20] Jolene: Like with you, I mean, you'd, you'd notice, you, you notice your
[00:44:25] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:26] Jolene: you can
[00:44:26] nicole: Mm-hmm. Eyebrows, I'm into eyebrows. A unibrow would be a look
[00:44:37] Jolene: Okay. Okay. All right. Nicole, here's your would you
[00:44:40] nicole: I'm ready
[00:44:41] Jolene: Would you rather live without air conditioning
[00:44:46] nicole: Oh my God
[00:44:47] Jolene: or live in America? Because poor
[00:44:51] nicole: I know.
[00:44:52] Jolene: AC
[00:44:53] nicole: know. all these people are dying
[00:44:58] Jolene: 5% of the people [00:45:00] have AC in the UK. 5%. Yeah. Uh, it's,
[00:45:05] nicole: All these people are drowning. I know they're drowning 'cause they are...
[00:45:10] Jolene: And old people in
[00:45:11] nicole: It's awful
[00:45:12] Jolene: I mean, it's horrible. And
[00:45:14] nicole: Yeah
[00:45:15] Jolene: I, I hope they get AC soon. I hope they, I hope they can get window units. I
[00:45:20] nicole: I don't... Yeah.
[00:45:21] Jolene: they have old buildings, they have old infrastructure. I get all that. Damn, put a unit, a window unit in, right?
[00:45:29] nicole: I, mm, listen, I do not know. All I know is that as a redhead, I'm just hot. Hot, hot, hot all the time. Not having AC, I... Yeah. It's... Yes.
[00:45:42] Jolene: Ugh.
[00:45:43] nicole: But I feel, I feel so, so badly for the Europeans
[00:45:47] Jolene: Yeah. That's a,
[00:45:48] nicole: ' Cause it's only gonna get worse, y'all. Oh, thank you all. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Uh, if you like what you see, press the thumbs up. Please [00:46:00] subscribe. Uh, it hits our,
[00:46:01] Jolene: us
[00:46:02] nicole: kick that algorithm in, and we so appreciate you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[00:46:05] Thank you for those of you that wrote in and gave us questions. We totally appreciate you. Jolene, anything else?
[00:46:12] Jolene: Thank
[00:46:12] nicole: Thank you.
[00:46:13] Jolene: all.
[00:46:14] nicole: bye bye.
[00:46:15]
