The Conservative Solution to Climate Change
Jolene and I have been friends for nearly forty years, and if you know anything about us, you know she looks at the world through a grounded conservative lens while I operate from a pretty progressive framework. Usually, when people bring up the environment, the left and the right immediately retreat into their respective corners and disagree out of pride more than anything else at this point. Jolene naturally wants to ensure we respect and preserve the free enterprise system, and I used to think a truly "conservative solution" to global warming was a total myth.
But our public square is so hopelessly gridlocked by partisan warfare that we knew we had to break through the noise. We sat down with former Republican Congressman Bob Inglis because we wanted to find out what happens when a conservative takes climate change seriously and is looking to make meaningful change. Bob represented the deeply red state of South Carolina for six terms, and his journey from a staunch opponent of environmental policy to the executive director of republicEn.org is a total masterclass in intellectual honesty, grace, and free-market optimism.
During his first six years in Congress, Bob operated with a very simple, reactionary mindset: Al Gore was for climate action, so he was instinctively against it. His transformation began at home when his eldest son turned 18 and boldly told his father that he would vote for him only if he cleaned up his act on the environment. That initial wakeup call led Bob to travel to Antarctica with the Science Committee, where he stared directly at physical ice core data. The final piece of his metamorphosis occurred while snorkeling on the Great Barrier Reef with an Australian climate scientist named Scott Heron. Observing Scott quietly worshipping the Creator through his profound reverence for the coral, Bob realized they shared a deep spiritual worldview. Inspired to love God and love people by protecting the planet, Bob returned to Washington D.C. and introduced the Raise Wages Cut Carbon Act of 2009.
Introducing a carbon tax in the middle of the Great Recession while representing perhaps the reddest district in the country came with an immense political cost. In the 2010 Republican primary runoff, Bob was soundly defeated by Trey Gowdy, capturing only 29% of the vote.
During a raucous debate in front of a Spartanburg County crowd, his primary opponents labeled climate action as a religious heresy. Gowdy ultimately won the room with a highly calculated political answer, claiming that since human-caused climate change had not been proven to the satisfaction of the voters he would represent, the answer was no.
But Bob remains a principled, rock-solid conservative who refuses to abandon his worldview. He argues that climate change is fundamentally an economic problem with an environmental consequence. In America today, if you haul trash to a county landfill, you are weighed on a scale and forced to pay a tipping fee so the city can maintain and line the dump safely.
The core issue with our atmosphere is that fossil fuel companies are permitted to use the trash dump of the sky without paying any tipping fee at all, resulting in unchecked, massive dumping. The free-market solution is to internalize this negative externality by building accountability directly into the price of the product so the marketplace can judge its true value.
To make this concept palatable right-of-center, Bob champions a revenue-neutral blueprint he calls the "Untax". This policy would completely eliminate or reduce the highly regressive 12.4% payroll FICA tax that hits low-income workers on their paychecks every single month. To offset that cut, a steadily rising price would be placed on carbon at the mine or pipeline. While a standalone carbon tax would raise the cost of electricity and gasoline, the Congressional Budget Office confirms that pairing it with a payroll tax cut leaves the bottom 70% of Americans financially better off. Only the top 30% would pay more.
Furthermore, this economic shift provides a definitive answer to the classic conservative question: Why should America bear the brunt of climate action while massive polluters like China and India dump trash into the sky for free? Under World Trade Organization case law, the United States can legally apply a border carbon adjustment tariff to imports based entirely on the carbon content of the incoming cargo. When cheap, currency-manipulated Chinese steel hits the Port of Seattle, it would be slapped with a heavy carbon fee. Within 24 hours, Beijing would implement the exact same carbon tax domestically to ensure that tax revenue stays in Beijing rather than flowing straight to Washington D.C
Through this elegant pricing mechanism, eight billion people worldwide would instantly see the true cost of fossil fuels on every grocery store shelf. Free enterprise and market competition would organically deliver cleaner, green alternatives at speed and scale because the dirty options would finally be held accountable to the laws of economics.
We do not need to expand the size of the government, and liberals must stop overloading the climate wagon with their separate, progressive wish lists like union organizing or living wages. Loading up the wagon only sinks it deeper into the political muck. If we can strip away the ideological accessories, focus on rock-solid market accountability, and extend a deep reservoir of grace to those changing their minds, we can protect our national security, repower our lives, and tell unstable foreign regimes to get lost.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
The Power of Big Oil Documentary:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/the-power-of-big-oil/
Bob's Good for the Soul, Kennedy Moonshot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZyRbnpGyzQ
Slide Rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
Bob's Foundation: https://republicen.org/
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head but are too scared to say out loud. Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome Jolene and welcome Bob Inglis, and I'll let Jolene introduce him
[00:00:27] Jolene: We are so excited to have Bob Inglis with us today. He served six terms in the US Congress representing the great state of South Carolina, and is now the executive director of republicen.org, which is a movement of conservatives who believe that climate change is real and that the free enterprise system can solve it. Bob sees climate change not as a partisan issue, but as a moral and economic opportunity. Welcome, Bob Inglis,
[00:00:54] Bob Inglis: Thank you Great to be with you
[00:00:56] nicole: Who is Bob Inglis I mean we find it fascinating that number [00:01:00] one that you were a six-time congressperson and then you are now this huge climate advocate a platform So can we talk about first of all how you got to this place Where where do you come from Who are you Bob Inglis
[00:01:18] Bob Inglis: It does seem it does seem unusual right To have a cons conservative talking about climate change cause we all know it's a liberal cause Um that's what I thought for my first six years in Congress is basically Al Gore was for it I'm against it Next question Okay pretty ignorant but that's the way it was my first six years in Congress Uh but then I was out of Congress six years uh doing commercial real estate law again in Greenville South Carolina and had the opportunity to run for the same seat again in 2004 Our son the eldest of our five kids was uh just turned 18 that year voting for the first time came to me and said Dad I'll vote for [00:02:00] you but you're gonna clean up your act on the environment Um his four sisters agreed his mother agreed New constituency you know you gotta respond to those people They can change the lo locks on the doors to your house Um so uh that was step one of a three-step metamorphosis Step two is going to Antarctica with the science committee seeing the evidence and the ice core drillings and then step three another science committee trip and um really a spiritual awakening Great Barrier Reef Aussie climate scientist who I was snorkeling with showing me the glories of Great Barrier Reef clearly worshiping God in what he was showing me You know it was clear that he wasn't worshiping the corals he was worshiping the creator of the corals I knew we shared a worldview before any words were spoken you know because uh St Francis of Assisi is quoted as saying Preach the Gospel at all times If necessary use words And so that's what Scott was doing and uh he's now a very dear friend And uh without the snorkels in our mouths later he told me about conservation changes he's making in his life to love [00:03:00] God and love people People come after us and so I got right inspired and wanted to be like Scott loving God and loving people So I came home and introduced uh the Raise Wages Cut Carbon Act of 2009 And um note to self do not introduce carbon tax even though it's revenue neutral amidst a great recession when you represent perhaps the reddest district or the reddest state of the nation It will not go well and it didn't go well at all After after 12 years in Congress I got 29 of the vote in the Republican runoff that year The other guy got the other 71 of the vote So that's how I came to this is uh from basically climate climate disregard not so much climate denial just climate disregard as conscious disregard of it to then inspired by the love of my son and seeing the science and the love of friends like uh Scott Heron uh turned into this guy that works on climate change
[00:03:58] Jolene: okay, so conservatives are [00:04:00] going to ask has your opinion changed on that it is, that climate, um, is changing because of the natural phenomenon of our, of this Earth that God has given us? Or is it, is it something that man is doing with the, the carbon emissions? What do you say to those conservatives who, who need some clarification on that?
[00:04:22] Bob Inglis: Yeah I'd say Here's the good news It's us
[00:04:28] It's it's really good news It's us therefore we can fix it
[00:04:32] you know? Uh we did a we we tried out an ad a Facebook ad that I thought was gonna be really great is basically uh I looked up images for sinners in the hands of an angry God and I got this thing It was actually n it looked like a guy preaching It looked like he had a Bible in this hand and he was really giving it to them on this with this hand Uh it was actually a guy uh playing around in the city council chambers But anyway so we put uh clouds up in the top you know with storm [00:05:00] things and it said uh and then you know this guy preaching uh it says uh We better hope it's human-caused It's basically the uh What I thought would work but it didn't work as an ad by the way Uh I thought it was I thought it was a really great ad But uh but yeah it's good news It's us and we can fix it You know if it if it weren't us boy we'd be hosed I mean this is really bad news
[00:05:24] nicole: Well Bob this is what I'm a little confused about So when we were doing We did a bunch of research and we I was watching that documentary about big oil which was fascinating and I'll put that in the show notes and you're in it
[00:05:38] looked looking at the history of this and what I was sort of that piqued my interest originally was that it seemed and please correct me if I'm wrong cause you're the you're the expert in this but it seemed like in the 60s and 70s that it wasn't a partisan issue it seemed that there were people that were concerned about it and people that weren't but it [00:06:00] wasn't a red thing or a blue thing my takeaways were that Al Gore was really interested in it and he was then became the vice president and then he didn't get um elected and so he made this like his absolute number one priority and would give talks I happened to see one of his talks in in New York a million years ago And then he made the movie The Inconvenient Truth which sort of solidified this like this is a liberal cause y'all Like this is it And and if and you're not you're not even allowed to think about it as an issue if you are a Republican so that when you were in office originally when did you start What was your first your first term
[00:06:50] Bob Inglis: so I got elected 19 1992 the previous century yeah
[00:06:54] nicole: Okay Okay And so at that point you didn't really [00:07:00] think about climate or you were like Eh it's a liberal thing or w what was that like Like I know that your son was a was a big eye-opener but I'm curious like what happened H
[00:07:10] Bob Inglis: Well it was in in a conservative district like the one I represented it was already starting to be a little bit unacceptable But if you look at it nationwide actually George H.W Bush who of course was losing in 1992 when I was first getting elected to the House um he actually said that uh you know something about the White House effect you know and how we're going to deal with this problem of climate change So George H.W Bush was on board Then um you get to you know over to really as far as 2008 and Republicans were still on board with solving climate change John McCain for example was running for president talking about climate change and then Barack Obama uh got elected [00:08:00] um you know he's a secret Muslim non-American socialist we said He's none of those things Uh but uh anyhow so And then is also the Great Recession was starting You know October of 08 the wheels were coming off the financial system
[00:08:16] nicole: That's right
[00:08:16] Bob Inglis: and and that's when it really went south on climate
[00:08:21] You know because before that you know when I got reelected to Congress in 2004
[00:08:26] nicole: Okay
[00:08:27] Bob Inglis: I I said to the district Greenville Spartanburg South Carolina w a very conservative one and back then one of the six in South Carolina Now we've grown a lot we've got seven districts So um I I said You know this time around Inglis 2.0 uh I'm gonna be singularly focused on energy security and that was the way we talked about climate was energy security and the district was basically l just look at the results uh in uh in the election of uh the the primary of 2004 had two opponents They [00:09:00] shared 15 of the vote Okay that was a brag If you did the math that means I got 85 of the vote um in that Republican runoff which is pretty pretty astounding really Then then um people thought Well it's a little bit strange you're talking about this energy security and and going over into climate change but what the heck Inglis the economy's great Go ahead and go for it Um then uh 06 it was still okay but 08 wow not so much anymore People were worried about this month's paycheck this month's mortgage payment Their houses were underwater you know financially um with the housing um bubble and the financial crisis And they basically said to me You know Inglis you seem to be focused on some slow-growing cancer and we need a tourniquet over here We are hemorrhaging And so um and so that's really when it happened And uh
[00:09:55] nicole: because in tw 2008 when you lost that primary [00:10:00] to uh Trey Gowdy is that his name
[00:10:02] Bob Inglis: y yeah 10 2010 yeah
[00:10:04] nicole: I'm sorry
[00:10:05] Bob Inglis: yeah see I sur I s I survived in 08 because the primary was l was was uh before the the Great Recession started But then uh I couldn't survive the 10 primary
[00:10:16] nicole: in that film I s he just denied climate altogether right
[00:10:22] Bob Inglis: Y yeah uh very interesting He um I remember we were at this big tent gathering in Spartanburg County and and I had uh four opponents you know The first one uh uh the the the local Christian talk radio host asked me a question He says Is climate change real and human-caused and do you support a carbon tax Well I well I had a terrible habit of answering questions so I said Yes and yes Boo boo boo hiss comes the crowd
[00:10:50] nicole: That
[00:10:51] Bob Inglis: So my my first opponent she said um uh God has given us this wonderful oil and when it's burned it's a wonderful blessing to the [00:11:00] world And so that was her answer
[00:11:01] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:11:01] Bob Inglis: next next guy said Well this is just another place where Brother Bob has left us making it a religious heresy not just a political heresy
[00:11:13] nicole: wow
[00:11:14] Bob Inglis: then and then the third guy who he came up with something I don't know But then the fourth guy Trey Gowdy came up with a particularly good political answer I remember it He says um Inasmuch as it hadn't been proven to the satisfaction of the people I would represent the answer is no there's no no human causation in climate change I remember thinking That's a really good political answer Won't win you a Profile in Courage award but it w it is a particularly good political answer Uh so
[00:11:43] Jolene: Okay, so, so all right. Bob, but is it fair to say that you are trying to change this conversation then? you still have conservative values. You cons- you consider yourself a Republican and, and a conservative
[00:11:56] Bob Inglis: that just believes in, in climate, um, that we [00:12:00] need to do something about climate change. you want to shift this conversation from a political one to an entrepreneurial one?
[00:12:06] Jolene: I mean, is that, is that fair
[00:12:07] Bob Inglis: Correct Correct And I think that this is like this is the strong suit of conservatives You know I'm a I'm a conservative I believe in the rule of law I believe in the Constitution I believe that my country has a role in the world Uh I believe that uh you know we should balance budgets Um I believe that we should have the free enterprise system deliver innovation at speed and scale I mean uh a and I believe people should be left in freedom to to pursue their their their joys and uh and their opportunities I mean that's what makes me a conservative Um my party is not conservative at this point
[00:12:43] it's a populous nationalist party which is a long way from conservative but we have this hope that my party Republican Party will eventually come back to itself um and realize that hey you know what Um really we we we've been uh we we gotta come back to [00:13:00] conservative principles And so what we think this is is a problem of economics that has an environmental consequence And if you think about it conservatives are the people that should be really good at economics
[00:13:13] nicole: should
[00:13:13] Bob Inglis: be the ones that say Hey yeah what the problem here is is we get to dump into the trash dump of the sky without paying a tipping fee Wherever you live in America today your county dump charges a tipping fee for trash haulers coming into that dump and they weigh the trucks on the way in and they pay based on the weight of the truck That's a good thing cause the city has to build a new dump when this one's filled up and they gotta line it so that the stuff doesn't leach out into the river
[00:13:45] that's a tipping fee It works And what we don't have is a tipping fee in the trash dump of the sky so there's a lot of dumping
[00:13:52] and so it's just a matter of fixing that economic problem so I don't frustrate some of your listeners who may be econ [00:14:00] majors or economists uh well all we talk about republicEn.org is this thing that economists would call internalizing negative externalities Uh it's bringing side effects bringing accountability for the side effects of burning fossil fuel It's just building them into the price of a product so that the marketplace can judge that product
[00:14:21] and we think that's the key to solving this
[00:14:24] nicole: Do you think that part of it is language Like the word the carbon tax just work and if you would I don't know not to go back in time like I just feel like that the left and the right we get really locked into this language and does and it doesn't serve us
[00:14:42] Bob Inglis: the best I can come up with is a bumper sticker maybe you can help me out is uh is the untax And then and then maybe we have people wondering what is the untax Well let's untax your payroll income [00:15:00] and let's tax pollution instead You know there's somebody working at a McDonald's near you right now near me too um it may be her second or third job She's paying 12.4 payroll tax on that job right now 6.2 she sees on her paycheck in the FICA box F-I-C-A funds Social Security 6.2 she doesn't see that McDonald's is paying Total is 12.4 tax It really is a whoppingly regressive tax It hurts poor people and so reduce that tax Put on a carbon tax instead Uh the carbon tax by itself would hurt a poor person too because you put on a $30 per ton price on carbon dioxide at the mine at the pipeline the price of electricity in the average home goes up by $11 a month The price of gasoline goes up in Greenville South Carolina or Chattanooga Tennessee or s San Francisco by 30 cents a gallon Bad for [00:16:00] that person working at McDonald's But if you cut the payroll tax at the same time you're doing that carbon tax the Congressional Budget Office says the bottom 70 of Americans end up better off It's only the top 30 that pay more
[00:16:16] nicole: Mm-hmm
[00:16:17] Bob Inglis: heated pools corporate jets
[00:16:19] nicole: Hmm
[00:16:20] Bob Inglis: you can actually make people better off with this untax But here's the challenge Trust me I'm gonna put on this new tax and we're gonna reduce this exis existing tax Trust me No No
[00:16:35] Jolene: I'm
[00:16:36] Bob Inglis: No
[00:16:36] Jolene: government.
[00:16:37] Bob Inglis: No and that's the problem But here's what I say and in fact I ran into it the other night at the Darlington County GOP uh meeting you know they were saying No we don't we don't trust that We don't we can't trust that I said Well okay Let's call up Charlie and apologize Call up the King Charles and tell him we're very sorry what happened back there in [00:17:00] 1776 Uh the experiment self-government has failed Please come back and rule o rule over us cause we cannot decide that we want to untax income and put a tax on uh carbon dioxide instead We we can't do it So Charlie will you please come back most of them were uh they're not willing to make that call I'm not either So uh you know uh free people can decide this
[00:17:21] Jolene: would there be then a, a, an issue with taking money from Social Security? I mean,
[00:17:27] Bob Inglis: Yes
[00:17:27] Jolene: exchange?
[00:17:28] Bob Inglis: Yeah that it it is a it is a problem except when you do a p a carbon tax you broaden the base of taxation So y right now you know a payroll tax payroll tax caps out FICA tax p caps out at about $175,000 a year So as you get to 175 the the FICA tax drops off So w people that do real well stop paying FICA tax I don't know they could be already stopped this at this point in the year We're [00:18:00] we're recording in May if you do a broad-based carbon tax then you know billionaires would pay the whole year long um cause they fly on corporate jets Well fine Pay for the carbon tax on your on the the Jet A that goes into that that jet And so it broadens the base of taxation for Social Security But let me not overstate that It doesn't fix the problem of Social Security Social Security's going broke Um and um uh but it does it it does broaden the base a little bit and make it a little bit better
[00:18:32] nicole: Bob you were saying in in other things that I've read and watched about you that we need a global buy-in when you talked about that I got super excited because we get really stuck in the weeds in United States of like Well I don't wanna pay this and you know It's not fair this this or that And it's ju you know and I th it seems that sometimes conservatives or the red red team might say Well you [00:19:00] know there's nothing we can do about it and so nothing gets done And we n
[00:19:04] Bob Inglis: Yeah
[00:19:05] Jolene: say,
[00:19:06] nicole: Sorry
[00:19:06] Jolene: think we say why would we... I'm sorry I interrupted
[00:19:09] nicole: Quite all right
[00:19:10] Jolene: w- as a conservative, I would say why does the United States have to bear the brunt of this if China and India aren't doing it because they're such bigger s- bigger polluters?
[00:19:19] Bob Inglis: Yeah
[00:19:19] Jolene: would say what, Bob?
[00:19:20] Bob Inglis: Yeah no that that's this is the current legitimate question that's asked right of center
[00:19:25] nicole: Mm-hmm
[00:19:26] Bob Inglis: you know back when I was getting tossed out of Congress it was aggressive disbelief about climate change It was basically I don't believe in climate change You shouldn't either You know That's gone away I mean there's still people that are arguing with thermometers but they're they're getting fewer and fewer of those kind of people Most people realize it's real it's obviously real but what they wanna know is how you get the world in on this thing it just can't be just us Jolene like you just said So here's the exciting thing about this untax If you if you untax income here uh payroll income put the ca tax on carbon dioxide [00:20:00] and said you you uh uh 7 bottom 70 end up better off here But then here's the really positive thing You can apply that tax to imports coming from a country that doesn't have the same carbon tax This would be a tariff but it would not set off a tariff war because this is established case law under the World Trade Organization that you can have a content tax basing the tax on the content of the stuff coming into your country and this would be a carbon content tax So we'd apply it to Chinese imports for example So the sheet of flat steel coming through the Port of Seattle right now let's say Um you know they stole the technology from us They manipulate their currency They've dumped a lot into the trash dump of the sky Uh somebody's lost his hands and his fingers or whatever Um here comes uh cheap Chinese steel Okay I'm a little bit sore about that cause we make cleaner steel uh right here in South Carolina if you can believe it Steel [00:21:00] actually we have some made in South Carolina Uh but here comes cheap Chinese steel We apply our carbon tax China objects in the World Trade Organization They try it They say Listen impermissible tariff We think they lose that case based on that content tax analysis After they lose 24 hours later cause you know they do reach consensus easily in China not a very fair government not a very nice government but doggone efficient Dictatorships are that way very efficient way to run a country Just you wouldn't wanna live under one but anyway 24 hours later they'd have the same carbon tax Why Well they just paid in Seattle a carbon tax that's now on its way to Washington If they'd collected it the same tax inside China the money would be in Beijing and the sheet of flat steel would be coming through the Port of Seattle with no adjustment So 24 hours later they've got the same carbon tax and then the whole world's following cause if you're doing business anywhere in the world you're doing [00:22:00] business with America and China So then eight billion people start seeing the true cost of the burning of fossil fuels The economic problem has been fixed Eight billion people go to their grocery store and they're choosing between the paper plates and the plastic plates
[00:22:16] nicole: Mm-hmm
[00:22:17] Bob Inglis: up a little bit because you know chainsaw gas and carbon tax in that But the plastic plates boy they're up That's all petroleum all natural gas all the time Now here in America you're that uh that one at the McDonald's with the bigger paycheck in her pocket even though she's been working a second and third job We've reduced her payroll taxes She's at the grocery store after this and she's deciding between the paper and the plastic Well we're for freedom at republicen.org If she just likes the plastic plates go ahead and buy them But if she's cheap like me she's gonna pick up the pl the paper and that's gonna happen on every shelf in the store There's gonna be some cle cleaner greener renewable thing that's [00:23:00] cheaper relative to the dirty stuff that's simply been made accountable and that's gonna happen around the world Um and so free enterprise is then delivering innovation at speed and scale because we fixed the problem of economics Give me an amen and I'll stop preaching
[00:23:16] nicole: No
[00:23:17] Jolene: well, uh, speaking of, speaking
[00:23:19] nicole: Oh
[00:23:20] Jolene: my next question, because I think I again, as the conservative Catholic, uh, in this group, I think you're onto something. Do, do you think that there's an opportunity for religious leaders lead f- on climate change from a, a biblical and a moral perspective instead of a, instead of a religious, as, or instead of a political one?
[00:23:41] Bob Inglis: I s- hope so. I, I pray so. when I was, uh, tossed out of Congress, I was, I was about to say when I was leaving Congress. Actually, when I was tossed out of Congress, I could have talked about national security, but my only career regret is never serving in the military, and so s- other people can do that better.
[00:23:58] So we ended up under this [00:24:00] sort of, uh, in, uh, general economics and, uh, uh, you know, political philosophy kind of sign. but when the question comes from the faith frame I love to go there because that's, that's, that's who I am. That's where I come from. And, and, and you know, it's just amazing the dignity that God gives the human soul.
[00:24:21] He says that we're co-creators with him, and we're to tend the garden. And so you would hope that at some point, particularly evangelicals within the Republican base, would come to understand that, hey, really, we really need to get in on this thing because this is the role that we should be fulfilling.
[00:24:41] I don't know, Jolene, how, how you feel about Laudato Si. I can tell you that my... I've had a, uh, the day that it came out, I was in New York City with my Jewish friend who printed out the, uh, pope's encyclical and gave it to this sort of evangelical [00:25:00] Episcopalian. And, uh, so the both of us read it, and I loved it.
[00:25:04] Um, now I had a friend at the University of Chicago who said the pope was a Marxist, um, in what he'd written. Well, I think that what that guy, the economist at the University of Chicago, was missing is the pope was talking about a kingdom of a different world,
[00:25:21] Jolene: Yeah
[00:25:22] Bob Inglis: you've got to give him the, uh, uh...
[00:25:25] He's doing exactly what he should be doing, is talking about the kingdom of the heart and, and the, the soul. He wasn't talking about economics. if you wanna talk i- in the, in the faith frame, it's so clear that we have this responsibility
[00:25:41] Jolene: Yeah
[00:25:41] Bob Inglis: as co-creators with God to tend this garden.
[00:25:45] and, and then it also gets into, especially for conservatives, people, you know, of, uh, c- political, uh, conservatism, quite often it's this thing about accountability. And so the thought that we just get away with [00:26:00] dumping into the trash dump of the sk- sky should just rankle, um, you know.
[00:26:05] Just, it's like, wait a minute, make people accountable, and then just watch good things happen when people are accountable
[00:26:12] Jolene: Yeah. That we are to be stewards of this earth that God gave us, and yeah. Are you gonna it better than the way we found it?
[00:26:19] Bob Inglis: Yeah. Are you gonna, are you gonna poop the nest? It's basically what we're doing is pooping the nest, is what we're ... It's really a bad idea. Yeah, we, we think there's a g- tremendous opportunity with people of faith. And, uh, so ... You know, I had a Harvard professor one time say to me, um, " Shame that the Bible doesn't say anything about the environment."
[00:26:39] And, uh, I, I, I'm, I'm afraid he read the thought bubble out of my head, which is, "Have you read it?" You know? Uh, it's like, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's replete in scripture, you know? Uh, Psalm 19, "The heavens declare the glory of God. The skies proclaim the work of His hands." I mean, it's everywhere in scripture, [00:27:00] this, this idea that we see God in the creation itself.
[00:27:05] nicole: it's interesting because I am not a person of faith, and I grew up, just so you know, Bob, I have a Jewish father, a Christian mother. I was raised Californian, which was, like,
[00:27:16] Bob Inglis: California, yes. Yeah.
[00:27:18] nicole: the things. I did all the holidays, but, but, but no real faith. I mean, I believe in... I don't know what I actually believe.
[00:27:25] But all to say that I'm on board. Liberal Democrat, I'm on board, and when I've
[00:27:31] Bob Inglis: Yeah
[00:27:31] nicole: Like, I went, you know, scoured your website, and I was like, And this is gonna be a clunky question 'cause I've been thinking about this so much. it seems that you, your foundation is catered towards the conservative,
[00:27:46] Bob Inglis: Yeah
[00:27:46] nicole: a space for the conservative to go believes in climate advocacy. And, and I was looking at it going, "But I wanna be there, too. is your dream [00:28:00] RepublicEN? Like, what do you, what do you want for, for your organization?
[00:28:05] Bob Inglis: Yeah, the ultimate goal is to bring America together and lead the world to solutions. Um, and it may sound a little bit s- it may sound a little bit strange,
[00:28:14] nicole: Amen over here.
[00:28:16] Bob Inglis: uh, but, it may sound strange sitting under this sign called RepublicEN, an obvious in- intentional misspelling of Republican, and the, the red and everything.
[00:28:25] mean, it could be that we're doing it all wrong. Uh, but our thought, our, our theory is, is conservatives need to hear it in their own language. and if you think about it, the climate conversation's mostly been conducted in the language of the left. uh, I, I got a friend, Dan Kahan at Yale, he teaches, uh, law and psychology.
[00:28:45] his research shows that leftist and her people are communitarian egalitarians. They, they focus on the community and the whole community doing well, and they particularly focused on fairness. So they're [00:29:00] communitarian egalitarians
[00:29:02] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:03] Bob Inglis: He says, "Right of center people are hierarchical individualists."
[00:29:07] They, they, they believe in working through a chain of command, so they're hierarchical. individualists. They believe in individual effort and reward. And so if you think about it, there's, there are very different language between those two, two, uh, communities. Uh, communitarian and egalitarian, you can say, "Well, the whole community's gonna do well, and we're gonna, we're gonna solve this climate change thing."
[00:29:29] Meanwhile, the hierarchical individualist needs to know how it is that they're gonna get the gold star in the class. They got ... Uh, the, they, they have to answer the question, "What did you do in the war, Daddy?" I mean, they've gotta have an answer to that. And
[00:29:43] nicole: I lo,ve it
[00:29:44] Bob Inglis: so we, we, we come to them in our natural language, which is hierarchical individualist language.
[00:29:51] You know, remember I was just talking about how we're gonna make money selling this better stuff around the world. We- capitalism is that system not to be [00:30:00] repented of in climate change, but rather that system in a fallen world where you make money by serving other people. You serve them well, you make lots of money.
[00:30:12] Um, and so that's, that's what we talk about, is it's not about departing from capitalism. Capitalism is gonna be the salvation of this thing because it's gonna be people selling these better products once we fix the economics.
[00:30:27] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:28] Bob Inglis: And so ... But Nicole, you're onto something that you're, you ... Here, here's what we typically say to people if they, Like I was in Hartsville, South Carolina, as I mentioned earlier, and, uh, that same day I was speaking to Rotary Club, and afterwards this woman came up to me and she said, "I'm a liberal, but I sure do like what you were saying. Can I have one of your cards?" I said, "Yes." And she said, "I can't wait to give it to my conservative family members."
[00:30:49] I said, "Oh, uh, that's exactly what we want you to do, is just to let them know that we exist." Right? And so, we're, we're glad for that to happen. But also, I should [00:31:00] tell you this, that, um, if our solution that we talk about a lot sounds familiar to you, Nicole we put on a price on carbon dioxide, we cut payroll taxes, we apply the same tax to imports so we get the whole world in on it.
[00:31:16] If that sounds familiar, it might be because it's the same thing that Al Gore has been for for about 30 years. I asked him several years ago if I could keep on saying that. He said, "Hold up, Bob. If you're talking a low..." And I said, "No, sir, I'm talking a substantial carbon tax that's steadily rising, paired with a reduction in payroll tax applied at our borders."
[00:31:36] He said, "Yeah, fine then. You can tell people what you're for at republicen.org is the same thing I've been for for about 30 years." And so if we could get through this terrible moment in American politics where the only thing that can make me feel better about my miserable existence is if my opponent is writhing in agony on the floor, and if I could get to, get to the [00:32:00] place of saying, "Well, it's okay that Al is smiling while we're smiling."
[00:32:03] He, he's, you know, uh, it-
[00:32:06] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:32:06] Bob Inglis: we, can do this. We can actually bring America to- together. And that's why, um, so, you know, what your show is doing is so great, is that, uh, you know, is to help get through this terrible moment where we've gotta have the other people writhing in agony
[00:32:20] nicole: Yes
[00:32:22] Jolene: No kidding. Uh, Bob, do you think it is harder to change people's minds or for them to admit that they've changed it?
[00:32:30] Bob Inglis: Oh, what a great question, Jolene.
[00:32:32] nicole: She's good at that stuff.
[00:32:34] Bob Inglis: yeah, yeah. I believe there's a very deep reservoir of grace to which I can repair.
[00:32:42] that's because I believe in a very big cross, um, that was redeeming the whole world, not just my personal fire insurance policy, you know?
[00:32:53] Um, and because that, I think it's a lot of grace that's available, and therefore I can [00:33:00] a- admit to being wrong those first six years. It's also true that I've got a community of support, which is, you know, my son, my wife, my four daughters, my dear friend Scott, you know, the Aussie climate scientist. I, surrounded by them and their love, I, I'm able to say, "Yeah, I was wrong those six years, and I, I was just, so now I'm gonna try to be, you know, corrected."
[00:33:22] But I think you're onto something, Jolene. We can't expect everybody to fe- to know of that deep reservoir of grace and to be surrounded by a community of love. They're not necessarily.
[00:33:34] Jolene: Yeah
[00:33:35] Bob Inglis: And so what we probably need to give them space to do is just say, just come around and say, "Yeah, yeah, um, now I see something.
[00:33:43] I, I was concerned about w- how we could get the world in on this thing, but now that you've answered that, I, I can see how maybe this would work." In other words, don't, don't expect them to do what I did. Um, and, and it's not necessary that they do what I did
[00:33:56] nicole: a
[00:33:56] Jolene: I think we see that because we see that in so much of, of [00:34:00] our whole political climate. You know, no- everybody, we've talked about so much on this show before, everybody has to, you know, dig their heels in for their team and say, "Nope, I believe this because my team told me to believe this."
[00:34:13] And so it's so hard d- to your point, to, to give that grace and say, "Wait, I might have screwed up on that.
[00:34:22] nicole: A- and if someone says, "I might have screwed up," 'cause liberals are absolutely guilty of this. Liberals, yes, I'm saying this. Y'all are-- We aren't very nice. Like, that's part of the issue, is like if someone has the cour- the courage and the vulnerability to say, "I think I might be thinking differently about something," liberals tend to be like, "See?
[00:34:45] I told ya," or,
[00:34:47] "Why didn't you right?" And so then it's like how-- We just need to be kinder and filled with grace and allow ourselves to and change.
[00:34:59] Bob Inglis: Yeah. [00:35:00]
[00:35:00] nicole: You weren't wrong, Maybe it was just different, right? We just learn different. you were ready at the time that you were ready to, to go on that, to lear- to meet Scott and have that spiritual awakening at the reef.
[00:35:13] Like, you were ready to listen.
[00:35:16] Bob Inglis: I, I was pretty clearly wrong before 'cause I was making a political calculation. So thank, thank, thank you for the grace that you tried to extend, but let me tell you,
[00:35:24] nicole: You're welcome.
[00:35:25] Bob Inglis: I was just, uh, I was, uh, I was pretty much wrong before. to this question about, uh, uh, Jolene, about whether you, whether it's easy, whi- which is how, how you pull this off is, um, informed by a friend of ours who, got twins and, um, they, uh, like, uh, 18-year-old twins, and they found, uh, the, the, their son kneeling in the cathedral that they were looking.
[00:35:51] They were on a tourist and, uh ... And that was atypical for him. And so what do they do as a parent? They say to [00:36:00] him, "Uh, so what were you doing over there?" Uh, no. They decided, "Just don't say anything. Just let him come to us later about that." In other words, don't... And that's, I think, what we've gotta do about climate, is we can't say to the Republican office holder, " Okay, dumb-dumb, come on out and, and tell us how dumb you were."
[00:36:21] You know, we, we don't do that. What we'd wanna do is we wanna say, "Just come along. We can show you an answer." So it's basically don't shine a spotlight on them while they're
[00:36:33] Jolene: Hmm
[00:36:34] Bob Inglis: this, this change, just like don't shine the spotlight on the 18-year-old that was praying in the, in the cathedral. Just wait for him to tell you about it later, about why he was, what he ha- what he had going on there. we just need to give people space to come around and like, say, hear it in their own language, and then they can say, "Yeah, this is, this is who we are. This... I'm not being cut off from my tribe."
[00:36:59] nicole: Bob, do you think that [00:37:00] there's hope?
[00:37:00] Bob Inglis: this is gonna sound rather crass, I guess, but the hope is this, economic realities overwhelm shaky ideologies.
[00:37:09] Jolene: 100%.
[00:37:10] Bob Inglis: and, this, this uh, this
[00:37:13] hoaxerism thing, it is a doggone shaky ideology. I mean, it is contrary to the science, and it is contrary to the economic realities.
[00:37:26] Do you know that recently a, I mean, uh, this would've been in, uh, we're talking in May. In April, there was a report in the Financial Times that there's a Chinese car company that now has a 900-mile car on a six to seven-minute charge.
[00:37:45] nicole: Hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:37:46] Bob Inglis: N- n- 900 miles.
[00:37:49] nicole: Is it wrong that I'd like to buy that car?
[00:37:52] Bob Inglis: No, and it's why Fo- Ford Motor Company realizes it doesn't matter that the [00:38:00] $7,500 credit is going away w- in America. they are after creating a $30,000 platform for an EV
[00:38:08] nicole: Mm-hmm
[00:38:09] Bob Inglis: try to compete with these, these Chinese companies. BYD currently has a car that'll go 300 miles on a five-minute charge.
[00:38:16] Ford says they've gotta get down to that level because they're a worldwide company. We're having, uh, th- this is the economic reality that we're facing. We're in the midst of an energy transformation, and it is a race not unlike the race that Sputnik set off when the Soviets, uh, both of you are too young to remember this, and I was barely old enough to remember.
[00:38:40] Uh, but, uh, you know, the Soviet Union launched Sputnik, and they were the first in space.
[00:38:46] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:48] Bob Inglis: President Kennedy went to Rice University in September of 1962, the famous moonshot speech, and he admitted that we were behind. No matter, we're gonna make up. [00:39:00] And that's where we are right now. We are behind China in a race to repower our lives, and we can either choose to double down on burning rocks and stuff out of the ground, or we can be the people that say, "No, no, we see it, and we're gonna do those batteries, and we're gonna figure out how to do the small modular nuclear reactors, and we're gonna do the better batteries, and we're gonna do the better solar and the better wind, and we're gonna make it so that we can repower our lives."
[00:39:30] And by the way, so we can say to those folks in the Middle East, " See if you can drink that stuff. We just don't need you like we used to."
[00:39:38] Jolene: aren't we seeing that right now? You know? I mean, we're in this whole, you know, Strait of Hormuz situation. You know, we're seeing how dependent, um, you know, the entire world is, uh,
[00:39:49] Bob Inglis: Yes, exactly
[00:39:51] Jolene: this one n- this one country, this one regime can affect the entire world
[00:39:56] Bob Inglis: Yeah. And of course, we've-- Some people would say, they, they [00:40:00] try to correct, uh, you and me, and they'd say, "Well, America has enough of its own oil." We do. We do. It's-- Here's the problem. It's a worldwide market for oil, and those people that are drilling it here will sell it wherever the highest price is. And so when you, when you cut off 20% of the world's supply through the Straits of Hormuz, the price goes up worldwide.
[00:40:21] so, uh, we are all dependent on that little stretch of waterway. It's, it's in our national security interest to say to them, "We just don't need you like we used to. Here's a copy of our constitution in your language. Study it if you like. You just won't be seeing us very much."
[00:40:38] that's, uh, really independence for America. That's where we, we, we build our national security, is by getting away from this stuff. And s-
[00:40:47] Jolene: conservative thought
[00:40:48] Bob Inglis: the reality is that economic reality is gonna overwhelm this shaky ideology.
[00:40:54] And so that's, that's my hope, and I think also people will maybe... I [00:41:00] hope at a higher level that people start realizing, you know, there's no reason to see a Democrat as my enemy. We've got enemies in the world, but a, a Democrat, a Democrat is not one of them for me, you know? Um, that's gonna take a little bit more work, I think, um, at really sort of a spiritual level, I think, to, to get to the place of saying, "Listen, we're all, we're all after wa- after the same things. Um, we just got different ways to get there." But on this one, the climate thing, you can actually come to agreement pretty quickly
[00:41:34] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Yeah
[00:41:36] nicole: This has been so great, Bob.
[00:41:38] Jolene: Yeah, truly
[00:41:40] nicole: so, clear, so... I don't know what person wouldn't agree with this, honestly. Like, it doesn't matter what side you're on. When you go speak to people, do you speak to m- to, uh, liberals and Democ- I mean, liberals and conservatives together, or is it just mostly the conservative audience?
[00:41:58] Bob Inglis: We, we, we really want to speak [00:42:00] mostly to conservatives. So if, uh, you know, like, uh, I, I keep referencing earlier this week, uh, being at, in Darlington County, South Carolina. I s- I spoke to a rotary club, I met with some farmers from the Farm Bureau, and then I, um, spoke to the Republican Party that night.
[00:42:15] Um, that's, that's a good day for us 'cause we're, we're talking to right-of-center folks.
[00:42:21] nicole: yeah,
[00:42:22] Bob Inglis: but if I end up, um, you know, in front of a, an audience with, um, leftist-center folks in it, then they can help us by sharing us with their friends and family members
[00:42:33] who, who happen to be conservative
[00:42:34] nicole: Bob, I think what's, what is, what I've learned today is think more liberals should listen to you um, the way you speak about it and the way you talk about the language, that would help us either understand what we're saying or how we're saying it isn't helping.
[00:42:56] and that again, we need to [00:43:00] understand that, that the Republican Party is not our enemy. These are
[00:43:04] Bob Inglis: Yeah.
[00:43:07] nicole: have wants and needs and also believe in climate change.
[00:43:10] Bob Inglis: Yeah, and it's, it's welcome them to the party. You know, welcome, welcome to the, to the, the conversation. if I'm in front of, uh, you know, uh, a group of liberals, what I say, what I invariably implore them to do is, "Please don't see climate change as too good of a crisis to waste." Too ma- too many, uh, liberals think everybody agrees on climate.
[00:43:36] let's get a solution where we put a whole bunch of things, goodies on the wagon that we want. You know, uh, I don't know, uh, living wage and, uh, union organizing or whatever. You know, load up the wagon with all that stuff.
[00:43:49] nicole: Right
[00:43:52] Bob Inglis: is, sinking in the muck.
[00:43:55] You cannot get it across the finish line. Please get the weight off the wagon." If you could [00:44:00] just get this simple pricing mechanism done,
[00:44:04] we might be able to convince conservatives to listen to Milton Friedman. If he were still alive, he'd be saying, "This is the answer." and we might be able to get this across the finish line.
[00:44:17] Uh, come back later for that union organizing thing. Come back later for that living wage thing. Please don't overload the wagon, uh, because we've got to get this done. This one has a time fuse on it,
[00:44:30] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:30] Bob Inglis: um, and, and we need to, to, to head off the worst of the damage. Do you know the, the city of Charleston, South Carolina right now is in the process of planning a $1 billion, that's billion with a B, $1 billion sea wall and pumping system to keep the high tide out.
[00:44:50] That's one city in one state on one of our coasts.
[00:44:56] Jolene: Wow
[00:44:57] Bob Inglis: we need to head off the water coming up [00:45:00] rather than try to pump it all out once it's come up. really it's we- we're in a race. Uh, we're in a race on climate. We're also in a race to repower our allies with the Chinese and, and,
[00:45:09] Jolene: And AI is not helping.
[00:45:11] Bob Inglis: And there, there are good things that can come from this. I mean, really good things like improved national security and, and something that, uh, we're trying out a little bit is talking not, not so much about climate change, but climate stability, um, is just talking about the goal of climate stability, and, uh, hoping that people can see that as something we should move toward is, uh, stability.
[00:45:35] nicole: That's great.
[00:45:36] Jolene: Thank you so much. Nicole,
[00:45:39] nicole: Would you like me...
[00:45:40] Jolene: about your good
[00:45:41] nicole: Yes. Do you have a good for the soul bob for us?
[00:45:44]
[00:45:47] Bob Inglis: I mentioned it earlier. I can tell you, when I get discouraged in this business,
[00:45:51] nicole: Yeah
[00:45:52] Bob Inglis: um, about working on climate, I go watch the moonshot speech. Um, uh, if you haven't [00:46:00] seen it, it's 17 minutes of pure American exceptionalism, and I, a Republican, should be embarrassed to say this, but President Kennedy, the Democrat, does it better than any Republican has ever done it.
[00:46:13] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:46:14] Bob Inglis: you know, he admits that some of the materials needed in the spacecraft hadn't been invented yet. No matter, we're going to the moon before the decade is out. you know, when leaders are optimistic, they're saying they believe in the people they represent. And what he was obviously expressing there in, at Rice University in September of 1962 is amazing optimism with the American people and belief in our abilities.
[00:46:40] and we did it. And so I, I watch it a lot because there are discouraging moments. Um, I, I, I'll, I'll tell you, I, I, I cry, I cry every time. And of the views that you'll see at the, either Kennedy Library or NASA, they both have it on their site, I'm about 25% of the [00:47:00] views. Um, so
[00:47:02] nicole: I will put it in the sh- I will put it in the show notes for all of us to be able to watch it, 'cause that sounds amazing.
[00:47:08] Bob Inglis: Yeah,
[00:47:08] it really, it really is amazing
[00:47:10] nicole: note, my mom graduated from Rice in 1962.
[00:47:14] Bob Inglis: Really? Wow. Isn't that cool? In '62, so she might've been there.
[00:47:19] nicole: She might have been there.
[00:47:20] Bob Inglis: She might've been at the speech.
[00:47:21] nicole: Yeah
[00:47:22] Bob Inglis: when you watch the speech, you gotta m- notice this too. You know how now we have these American flags, and there are, like, eight of them behind the president, and they're like stretched out like this?
[00:47:32] nicole: Yeah.
[00:47:33] Bob Inglis: It looks so silly. In this, in September of '62, there was one flag, and it almost hits him in the head.
[00:47:41] nicole: Oh,
[00:47:41] Bob Inglis: it's like flying around.
[00:47:44] Jolene: Funny
[00:47:47] Bob Inglis: you know, and it's all staged.
[00:47:48] nicole: Yeah
[00:47:49] Bob Inglis: Not then. It was just he was down on the field, and he's giving his speech, and the flag nearly hits him in the head.
[00:47:54] Um, and it's just real.
[00:47:57] nicole: Amazing
[00:47:58] Bob Inglis: It's a truly amazing speech. I gotta tell you [00:48:00] one other thing. When the flight surgeon came from that mission came by, um, the science committee, asked him, I said, "Is it true," you know, this is like a 85-year-old man at this point. I said, "Is it true we didn't know how deep the moon dust was?"
[00:48:17] He grabbed me. He took me aside into the a- a- ante room, and he said, "We had absolutely no idea how deep the moon dust was." He said, "Those were my patients. I was monitoring their heartbeats. There was a real chance, uh, that, that Neil Armstrong was gonna fly into his grave." And he said, "We, we had no idea." He said, "As God would have it, you know, the thrusters came on, it blew away a little bit of moon dust, and it landed."
[00:48:49] He said, "Neil Armstrong turned off the rudimentary computer because he said, 'Listen, I, I'm a test pilot, and if I, if I'm flying into my grave, I'm flying [00:49:00] myself.'" And so he landed it himself. Um, and so that's what we did in 1969 on slide rules. The thing was designed on slide rules. And for some of your viewers, I'll have to tell them, go to a museum and you'll see what a slide rule is.
[00:49:18] Jolene: know
[00:49:18] Bob Inglis: But,
[00:49:19] Jolene: rule is
[00:49:19] Bob Inglis: yeah.
[00:49:20] nicole: I'll put that in the show notes too.
[00:49:22] Jolene: Yeah
[00:49:23] Bob Inglis: But, now in, in your phone you have way more computing capacity than, than, than they had for that mission.
[00:49:31] nicole: Wow
[00:49:31] Bob Inglis: did it. We can do this thing about winning this repowering our lives race. We can stop burning stuff out of the rocks and out of the stuff out of the ground, and we can say to the Middle East, "Get lost," and we can, and we can or figure out how to run your lives better. and we, we can create a lot of wealth and opportunity and jobs here in America and, and really, uh, solve this thing. Um, so, now some of the damage is baked in, but, but, uh, [00:50:00] but we can, but we can, uh, head off the worst of it, and that's really pretty exciting
[00:50:04] Jolene: Okay.
[00:50:05] nicole: you rather
[00:50:05] Jolene: at the end of our podcast, we always play, Nicole and I always play a game of would you rather. And
[00:50:10] Bob Inglis: Go.
[00:50:10] Jolene: I've got a, I've got a would you rather question for you.
[00:50:18] Would you rather be remembered as someone who changed people's minds or someone who changed people's tones of their conversations?
[00:50:28] Bob Inglis: oh, you're gonna find out my weakness here, I think. I think I'd, I'd, I think, you see, it'd be more noble to change their tone, but I think I really wanna change their minds.
[00:50:37] Jolene: I
[00:50:39] nicole: I like
[00:50:39] it. It's,
[00:50:40] Bob Inglis: sorry I'm not, I'm not being very noble there, but yeah, I, I want them to change their minds.
[00:50:45] Jolene: an honest
[00:50:46] nicole: We love it. We love it. That's great.
[00:50:49] Jolene: How... Do you have a would you rather for us?
[00:50:51] Bob Inglis: would you rather that we solve this... Well, now I keep on coming up with the just obvious ones, like, uh, what's the timeframe here, you know, about whether we solve [00:51:00] this before we're at crisis, or do we wanna wait till we're at crisis?
[00:51:04] I guess there's an obvious answer to that, isn't there?
[00:51:06] Jolene: All right. Yeah
[00:51:08] Bob Inglis: really where... And we really are getting near the crisis point, but, uh, the, too many people I think wanna wait until it's just really t- so totally too late. that's what you wanna avoid. But anyway, I don't know.
[00:51:20] Jolene: Well, really appreciate this
[00:51:22] nicole: We really do
[00:51:23] Jolene: I think that this was, um, we hope it's enlightening for all of our viewers and listeners and, and, um, like we say all the time, we're not here to change anybody's mind, but to have open conversations that with, with curiosity and respect, and you've certainly proved that, that with the work that you're doing at RepublicEN.
[00:51:41] So thank you
[00:51:42] nicole: And if you wanna go to Bob's website, it is republicen.org. Thank you so much, Bob
[00:51:49] Bob Inglis: Thanks for having me
[00:51:50]
