“Us vs Them” Has Taken Over American Politics
It hit me the other day how quickly a normal conversation can turn into a loyalty test. Especially if we’re trying to talk about anything politically motivated.
You say one thing that isn’t perfectly on-script for your “side” and suddenly people are looking at you like you’ve betrayed the whole team. Not because you said something cruel. Not because you lied. Just because you left a little room for nuance. Just because you admitted you’re not 100 percent sure. And in 2026, that tiny bit of uncertainty can get you shamed, piled on, or written off completely.
I think that’s why so many of us feel stuck. We’re not stuck because we don’t have opinions. We’re stuck because we’re scared of what happens if we change our mind, soften our stance, or even ask a genuine question. We’ve built a culture where being curious looks like weakness, and being loud looks like strength. And it’s making us meaner, not smarter.
We’ve both been sitting with the same question: where do we go from here? What do we as a collective society do the next time we’re tempted to type something nasty online? How can we stop trying to prove ourselves and just listen?
One thing we keep noticing is how quickly everything becomes “our side” versus “their side.” A headline drops and people don’t even pause to think. They grab it like a weapon. They post it like a trophy. They use it to prove they’re right and the other side is stupid. We’re tired of it. It’s not making anyone wiser. It’s not making anyone kinder. It’s just making everyone more dug in.
We also talked about labels and how they can help you find your people, but they can also trap you there. “I’m a liberal.” “I’m a conservative.” “I’m a Christian.” “I’m an atheist.” Once you say it out loud, it can start to feel like you’re not allowed to move. Like you’re not allowed to say, “Actually, I’m not sure,” or “I’ve changed my mind,” without getting punished by your own team.
And that’s the part that scares us, because it means curiosity gets squeezed out. If you’re always performing loyalty, you’re not really thinking. You’re just trying not to get kicked out of the group.
We see it constantly on social media. People react to a tiny clip and decide they’ve heard enough. They don’t listen to the full conversation. They don’t ask a question. They just arrive ready to declare what kind of person you are. And then, in real life, it’s completely different. When you’re face-to-face with someone, you remember they’re a person. You see their eyes. You hear their tone. You can’t reduce them to a label as easily.
That contrast has been one of the strangest parts of doing this show. Online, people can be brutal. In person, people are usually softer. Warmer. More open. It makes us wonder how much of this political hatred is real, and how much of it is just what gets rewarded on screens.
We also went into something heavier, the way powerful people keep getting away with bad behavior until they suddenly can’t. The way everyone seems to know what’s going on, but nobody says anything until it becomes useful. And we found ourselves asking the same uncomfortable question: Is that really about protecting people, or is it about protecting the tribe? Protecting the seat? Protecting the story?
We don’t have clean answers. We’re not pretending we’ve solved America in 30 minutes. But we do know this: the “gotcha” culture is rotting our ability to live together. The constant shaming, blaming, and finger-pointing is making everyone defensive and exhausted.
So where do we go from here?
Honestly, we think it starts smaller than people want. It starts with the next comment you almost leave. The next assumption you almost make. The next time you feel that rush of righteousness, and you pause long enough to remember there’s a human being on the other side of the screen.
Ask a question instead of throwing a punch.
And if you can, get to know someone in real life who thinks differently from you. Not as a project. Not to convert them. Just to remember what it feels like to talk to a person instead of a stereotype.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Eric Swallwell video:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Good for the Soul:
The Enemies Project https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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[00:00:00] Nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what French should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:19] Welcome to. We've got to Talk. Welcome, Jolene. Yes.
[00:00:22] Jolene: we are talking about
[00:00:24] Nicole: where do we from here?
[00:00:25] Jolene: And, and this was after really I think some conversations that Nicole and I have had. With our husbands and friends and all that. And it's, it's like we can continue to talk about all this stuff, but until we to do something, nothing's gonna change. So I think we're, we're trying to figure out where to start.
[00:00:44] Nicole: Um,
[00:00:45] Jolene: Um,
[00:00:46] Nicole: so
[00:00:46] Jolene: Nicole, start us
[00:00:47] Nicole: okay,
[00:00:47] Jolene: you have, what are your three hot
[00:00:48] Nicole: these are my three hot takes this hateful and disrespectful way that we have been treating each other for, I would gather to say the last 10 years I would gather to [00:01:00] say the normalization of Trump won. it's not working. It's mean, it's productive, it's depleting, and the only people it seems to serve is the rage economy, and it's destroying us when they're laughing all the way to the bank. Number two, if we as human beings would take a moment to sometimes admit that we are wrong. Or that we've just simply changed our mind about something.
[00:01:33] Doing that takes incredible courage. And I think a lot of times we are afraid to do that,
[00:01:43] for fear of being shamed and bullied, but it takes incredible courage to admit when you're wrong or you've changed your mind. Number three. The shaming, the blaming, the I told you so, behavior of the last [00:02:00] however many years needs to go.
[00:02:03] And I believe we all need to start acting like grownups again. I
[00:02:07] Jolene: I love it. Okay. Alright. I kind of, I think I took it a little bit different. Tactic on
[00:02:13] Nicole: As we, as we usually do, we've got to talk,
[00:02:15] Jolene: is so, that is true. Okay. here are my three hot
[00:02:18] Nicole: okay?
[00:02:19] Jolene: I think. we are looking at the, and especially
[00:02:22] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:23] Jolene: and by right now, I mean a Christian,
[00:02:26] Nicole: Trump had.
[00:02:27] Jolene: stupid, horrible message on Easter Sunday. you know about, the whole civilization of Iran. he had
[00:02:35] Nicole: He had the.
[00:02:35] Jolene: picture that he reposted and then took down of as him, of as the Jesus slash Doctor slash. American Red Cross worker, what, uh, whatever. and then the whole, this whole thing with the pope, these, these, the back and forth with, with the Pope
[00:02:52] Nicole: And
[00:02:52] Jolene: it,
[00:02:53] Nicole: its triggered
[00:02:54] Jolene: so
[00:02:54] Nicole: so many reactions,
[00:02:55] Jolene: on
[00:02:56] Nicole: media,
[00:02:57] Jolene: of course,
[00:02:58] Nicole: to where, [00:03:00] you know, even
[00:03:01] Jolene: like.
[00:03:02] Nicole: liberal people are saying, oh.
[00:03:05] Jolene: and so now we've got the Catholics. Okay. I mean, it's like everybody, every time something happens, are grasping for it and saying, now this is on our side. We've got this on our side, and It's that whole mentality of our side has to win. that is not getting us any further. So to your point, you know, like you said, we, we have to say, and, and whether
[00:03:28] Nicole: Are saying.
[00:03:29] Jolene: gosh, I wish I wouldn't have voted for Trump yet now at this point, or I, I regret voting for him. Or they're saying, listen, we still had two choices. I mean, I still would've voted for
[00:03:39] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:39] Jolene: think he's an idiot.
[00:03:40] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:41] Jolene: or whatever the gambit of that, of that thought is. Sorry, that was a long one. Number one. Number two, I think we have to look at the risk reward analysis, and I think we're seeing this kind of come into play with, well actually it probably started with the Me Too movement, then we saw it again in the Epstein [00:04:00] files, and now we're seeing it with the, the most recent members who have been, who have quit, resigned, but forced out
[00:04:10] Nicole: Because they're idiot.
[00:04:11] Jolene: this whole mentality of, I can get away with this until I can't get away with this anymore, and when are we going to stop? I guess thinking that this bad behavior is okay and, and these dirty, like this
[00:04:25] Nicole: Conversation,
[00:04:25] Jolene: the whole conversation is around
[00:04:27] Nicole: how.
[00:04:27] Jolene: this was a, a, the, the worst kept secret in Washington DC And you're going, okay, if people knew about this, why isn't, why aren't we talking?
[00:04:36] I mean, are we that. Dumb. Are, are we bearing our heads in the sand? I don't, I don't know, but,
[00:04:41] Nicole: But it's what you and I talked about the
[00:04:43] Jolene: Epstein files too. How
[00:04:44] Nicole: did. So many people know this was going,
[00:04:46] Jolene: on yet? No one said anything. That was number two, number three. Once we dismiss the extremisms on both sides is
[00:04:56] Nicole: it's this exhaust
[00:04:57] Jolene: middle that, um, [00:05:00] is, is too weak
[00:05:00] Nicole: fight.
[00:05:01] Jolene: anymore.
[00:05:02] And it is just so fed up with it that,
[00:05:05] Nicole: If we developed, and we mean the social media people develop these algorithms to be the
[00:05:11] that
[00:05:12] Jolene: that
[00:05:12] Nicole: everyone.
[00:05:12] Jolene: has, and that's what's feeding the beast and that's what continues to get into our feeds. Can't we develop an algorithm that that does the opposite? I mean, what, how, when are we going to start, um, developing the algorithm that rewards good behavior, you know, or positive speech or, happy and
[00:05:35] Nicole: joyful. You know,
[00:05:37] Jolene: curiosity. What, how does that, how does that not happen?
[00:05:42] Nicole: it does. Like sing it Sister. I'm with you. I mean, listen, that's why. That is why we got, we've got to talk. Exists. Exists. It is why it exists. Like we are trying to help change the algorithm. We are trying to help change a different way. To [00:06:00] speak to one another. To listen to one another. I. Uh, there's so much to unpack here. I'm really interested in talking to you about how the bad behavior gets excused or overlooked or not paid attention or accepted. we are hardwired to. figure out how to stay in a group, which I think is a really interesting idea and I wanna
[00:06:24] Jolene: Okay.
[00:06:25] Nicole: about that. And I think it sort of melds into it. so that for instance, we're so ready to self-identify. I am a liberal, I am a con, a conservative. I am a Democrat. I am a Republican, and we're in this place where if we say anything that isn't in line on the party line or in the tribe line, everybody's ready to kick you out.
[00:06:48] And not only kick you out, shame you, bully you, tell you you're wrong, tell you're stupid. And if you had a chance like, you know what, I've been thinking about this particular [00:07:00] subject, whatever it may be. And I think I might have changed my mind. Well, of course you should have. Instead of,
[00:07:07] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:09] Nicole: oh, well let's talk about it.
[00:07:12] What made you change your mind? How come you came to that conclusion? Right. So I'm just gonna put this out there. when the next time you say even I am a Christian, I am. An atheist, whatever it may be. Maybe when we can give ourselves room and give our person, we're talking to a little room by saying, I tend to vote Republican.
[00:07:40] I tend to live my life by Christian values. It just sort of pulls, it's stop. It stops the like, this is my tribe. And maybe the Christian thing's a little tricky to, to use that example, but it, but maybe not. when we just like, this is my team. [00:08:00] Don't f with me, Linda. I'm trying
[00:08:04] Like I deal with the social media and we love your comments. We love, we're so grateful that you listen and watch our episodes, and sometimes it's just reacting to a snippet and we encourage you to watch the full thing. I don't even think people understand that they're doing this.
[00:08:23] There is this sense of righteousness on either side that doesn't give any room for another person to hear them.
[00:08:32] Jolene: Do we get so caught up in identifiers that, it doesn't then allow
[00:08:42] Nicole: Curiosity. Yes.
[00:08:43] Jolene: So
[00:08:44] I mean, I think I was young.
[00:08:46] Nicole: but I remember thinking,
[00:08:47] Jolene: why is it so important if you are a homosexual come out as a homosexual? And I like, I mean, I'm sure I was in high school or junior high or something, and I re [00:09:00] I remember asking my, my mom about this, like, why the
[00:09:05] Nicole: person that you have
[00:09:06] Jolene: have
[00:09:07] Nicole: with,
[00:09:08] Jolene: why
[00:09:08] Nicole: is that? To
[00:09:09] Jolene: identity? And I think the answer was because until we get to a point where everyone is accepted equally, then no one should be accepted.
[00:09:21] I mean, you need to be able to, accept everyone for who they are. So, I, so then
[00:09:28] Nicole: Did we get into
[00:09:29] Jolene: a, a
[00:09:30] Nicole: a time in our, in our culture, we identifying either your sexuality or your political or
[00:09:38] Jolene: your religious perspectives or
[00:09:40] Nicole: all of these things
[00:09:41] Jolene: then, instantly
[00:09:43] Nicole: categorized you?
[00:09:44] Jolene: you as
[00:09:45] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:46] Jolene: and then you had to spend
[00:09:47] Nicole: So much time going,
[00:09:51] Jolene: Well, but that,
[00:09:52] Nicole: that's not me.
[00:09:53] Jolene: I, I mean, I, that I,
[00:09:54] Nicole: I, a question, but I don't, I don't believe in [00:10:00] punishment.
[00:10:00] Jolene: or, I mean, I, I, I don't know,
[00:10:01] Nicole: Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
[00:10:04] Jolene: that, by standing up and,
[00:10:07] Nicole: And saying
[00:10:08] Jolene: this
[00:10:08] Nicole: this
[00:10:09] Jolene: is who I am at
[00:10:10] Nicole: very beginning,
[00:10:11] Jolene: takes away
[00:10:11] Nicole: every opportunity for curiosity,
[00:10:14] Jolene: to,
[00:10:14] Nicole: those people.
[00:10:15] Jolene: that you're talking to.
[00:10:16] Nicole: spot on. I mean, I think, everybody wants to be seen and heard. And loved and accepted. I think that's a hu That's a human instinct. I think it's why the Civil Rights Movement started.
[00:10:36] It's why gay rights started. It's why Women's Rights started. It was like, Hey, see me. I'm important. I matter. And I. Don't wanna take anything away from that because I do believe that everyone does matter. and I think you and I would both agree that we've got to talk is about like seeing each other's [00:11:00] humanity, acknowledging each other, acknowledging the differences, celebrating the differences, and not in a Kumbaya way, really celebrating the differences and trying to learn from each other
[00:11:12] I think you're totally onto something because I do think the pendulum swung way one way. And so it was like, this is my label, y'all. This is it. And I'm not allowed to say anything that's not this label. And if I do, I'm a bad L-G-B-T-Q person. I'm a bad woman, I'm a bad black person, I'm a bad whatever. The, like, it was like, you're not, there's no more nuance. and for what it's worth, Joe, when you were talking about the, the Easter, uh, social post that Trump said about like, we're gonna destroy humanity or destroy civilization,
[00:11:53] Jolene: Civilization. Yeah.
[00:11:55] Nicole: as we know it and then the Jesus meme that says he wasn't Jesus. It [00:12:00] was a doctor and then a Red Cross worker.
[00:12:01] I'm not Christian. I was so offended by it. I don't think that you need to be this thing to be able to be offended or not offended. I was just like, wow, the line. There's no line. He's crossed the mall and it's like, this is absurd. And I we're all being gaslit. And so where I would also wanna say with you, Joe, is that. And I know I'm gonna get pushback, liberals, and I'm gonna say this with incredible love 'cause I love you guys. it doesn't matter if you're right, it doesn't matter. before you choose to. Make that comment on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram. Remember that there is another human being on the other side of that screen who might think differently than you, and it's not your job to change [00:13:00] their mind.
[00:13:01] It's your job to listen to them. It maybe learn something.
[00:13:04] and the same goes for the right because I've gotten a lot of people from the right today, on our social media feeds about the Beyond MAGA Report. They haven't listened to the podcast, but they've decided to talk about how much they love Trump.
[00:13:16] And that is fine. I'm not telling you not to love Trump. I'm thrilled that you're actually writing. Because we don't get as many Trump voters, listening to the podcast. Um, and I'm happy that you're listening and I'm not, and I'm really not there to change your mind. And neither is Jolene. Like we just want to be able to make this much more comfortable, to be able to be curious and ask each other questions. and like you've said, we're, I mean, we're exhausted. Not you and me, like, like collectively exhausted. It doesn't mean we're centrist, it doesn't mean we're moderates. But where do we go from here? And I think it's really up to us, I mean each person individually, to make that conscious choice to say, you know what?[00:14:00]
[00:14:00] I'm gonna do it differently. And before I, you know, make that nasty comment or throw a bunch of facts at you.
[00:14:07] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:09] Nicole: Maybe ask some questions instead.
[00:14:11] Jolene: Well, and I think,
[00:14:12] Nicole: You know.
[00:14:13] Jolene: it was, it was Josh, your husband, who, for those who didn't know,
[00:14:17] Nicole: I know.
[00:14:18] Jolene: you know that Josh is your husband.
[00:14:19] Nicole: Mm.
[00:14:20] Jolene: of our listeners who do don't
[00:14:21] Nicole: Yes.
[00:14:22] Jolene: was Josh
[00:14:22] Nicole: Said
[00:14:23] Jolene: if, if you're
[00:14:24] Nicole: thinking
[00:14:25] Jolene: differently
[00:14:25] Nicole: Trump
[00:14:26] Jolene: now than
[00:14:26] Nicole: did.
[00:14:27] Jolene: and I'm telling you. I get those who say no, we still had two choices. It was Kamala or Trump. And so I still would vote for Trump again, even
[00:14:36] Nicole: I.
[00:14:36] Jolene: like, I, I think that he's, you know, he goes about things the wrong way, but maybe you like the things that he's doing. You just don't like what he says. That's okay too.
[00:14:46] You've, I that is okay, but it was Josh who said, let's stop pointing fingers and going. you wanted him. This is what you voted for. Hey, y'all, this is what you voted for.
[00:14:58] Nicole: It,
[00:14:58] Jolene: We know, we [00:15:00] know.
[00:15:00] and for the same token on the Democrats, you know,
[00:15:03] Nicole: Stop.
[00:15:03] Jolene: stop vilifying,
[00:15:05] Nicole: You know
[00:15:06] Jolene: the,
[00:15:07] Nicole: Democrats
[00:15:07] Jolene: for
[00:15:08] Nicole: thinking that, you know the trans community,
[00:15:12] Jolene: was the most
[00:15:12] Nicole: issue.
[00:15:13] Jolene: Uh, we all know that's not, that's not the most important issue. That may be an, an important issue to a person, but overall, that was not the most
[00:15:22] Nicole: I.
[00:15:23] Jolene: thing that Democrats were standing on. So everybody put down your weapons let's just start having conversations again.
[00:15:33] Nicole: Yeah. we're pretty entrenched. But we're super excited to be able to have Isaac Saul on, uh, the executive editor of Tangle and the conversation that we're gonna talk to him about.
[00:15:47] 'cause he's having a very similar situation and he's been at this a lot longer. And, you know, shout out to Isaac 'cause he's doing, he's doing some seriously good work. And and he is having a similar [00:16:00] situation where if he. Is covering a story and he, uh, shouts out to something Trump has done. That's good.
[00:16:08] He will lose, uh, liberal, uh, subscribers. And when he says something against Trump, he, uh, his conservatives start to drop off. I mean, we're doing, knock on wood, we're doing well, but we, we have. You know, in our friend groups, it's like, I, those, those, it's our friends. It's our friends or family.
[00:16:30] They're like, you know, I really, I, I know Jolene's your friend, but, and I'm like, okay. Like, and I, and that's, that's fine. Like, or, oh my God, Nicole, like, you know, she said that and I'm thinking. Really. Okay. Like we're not asking you to actually listen or watch, you don't have to, but we hope you do.
[00:16:53] Jolene: And you and I have talked about this so many times, and I know we've talked about it on here, that, you know, we get all [00:17:00] this, this, um, these
[00:17:02] Nicole: Comments.
[00:17:03] Jolene: from people who, and we think some of them are trolls.
[00:17:05] Nicole: Yes,
[00:17:06] Jolene: mean,
[00:17:06] Nicole: absolutely.
[00:17:06] Jolene: really bother
[00:17:07] Nicole: Mm.
[00:17:08] Jolene: But, uh, people who say this and then you show up at our daughter's wedding and every conservative in there. Couldn't wait to
[00:17:16] Nicole: Hug
[00:17:16] Jolene: you
[00:17:17] Nicole: and love on you, and
[00:17:17] Jolene: and
[00:17:19] Nicole: you
[00:17:19] Jolene: And my,
[00:17:21] Nicole: our friends
[00:17:22] Jolene: couldn't
[00:17:22] Nicole: wait to
[00:17:23] Jolene: fan
[00:17:24] Nicole: you
[00:17:24] Jolene: and I mean, like, when you truly
[00:17:26] Nicole: to
[00:17:26] Jolene: know somebody, then they forget.
[00:17:28] Nicole: forget. Yeah.
[00:17:29] Jolene: oh, you are that label.
[00:17:31] Nicole: but I mean, that's the other thing is learning. Like, when you're face to face with someone, it's a very different thing.
[00:17:38] And that's what I am, I'm putting out there to our listeners and viewers that when, listen, this shit is hard. It's really hard. It's really hard. I love my friend Jolene. I love her so much, and a year and a half later doing this podcast, I love you more. And
[00:17:56] Jolene: too.
[00:17:56] Nicole: I know and ev but every time I'm like, here's the hot [00:18:00] topic.
[00:18:01] Here's the, here's the conversation that nobody wants to have and we're gonna do it. And sometimes my heart's racing. I'm thinking, Ugh, is this gonna be the one. Is this gonna be the one that breaks us? No, I don't really think, I don't really think that, but, but it's sort of like, there are times I'm like, whew, this is an exercise.
[00:18:20] Like I'm, I'm just trying to say to our listener and viewer that what we're asking you to do is some of the hardest work you will ever do. 'cause it's asking you to be really uncomfortable to not know the answers. And to not be confident And who wants that? it's the opposite of everything that we've
[00:18:44] taught.
[00:18:44] Right.
[00:18:45] Jolene: um, or that we've, that we've tried to go after. here's what I think is interesting that I am interested in knowing, you know, like with the, with the stuff that's happening with Swalwell and Gonzales and Congress and, um, [00:19:00] these are the two congressmen that have recently resigned for misconduct.
[00:19:05] Nicole: is it just so interesting
[00:19:07] Jolene: That
[00:19:08] Nicole: that its taken this long, like
[00:19:10] Jolene: some
[00:19:11] Nicole: mm-hmm.
[00:19:12] Jolene: that Swalwell do done was started in
[00:19:15] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:19:17] Jolene: are we in 20 26, 8 years later? And people knew that it was going on and knew and, and the same, I mean, the Gonzalez
[00:19:27] Nicole: Situation.
[00:19:28] Jolene: happened years ago.
[00:19:29] So why is it That we're willing to, to brush this stuff aside
[00:19:35] Nicole: I think that, yeah, I think Jolene, that's such an incredibly good question and I think young women today don't understand, like it seems crazy to them. and this is not like women, women, poor victims, whatever. We have just dealt with so much shit.
[00:19:52] We always have from the beginning of time, and let me say this, I love being a woman. I love it. I wouldn't change [00:20:00] it. Um, I know how to stand up for myself. I've not been in corporate America necessarily, but when I was like doing rent jobs for, in order to pay my rent before I could act full-time, like I was in different, like, corporate situations to, you know, whether it was temp work or whatever.
[00:20:17] So I was around it and I would see and be, privy to some really shitty behavior by men. And I think we were taught, oh, you're overreacting. Oh, you know, we're joking. Like that kind of, and it just, it just went on and on and on. And then the me Too movement happened. Yeah. And then people were starting to be held accountable.
[00:20:42] And then I think, and I might get pushback for this, there were th were some allegations that I think went way too far. Like you looked at me wrong, and I'm thinking, okay, this is not the point here. The point is truly like. It Like, were you inappropriately touched? Were you [00:21:00] like, let's actually stay in the room.
[00:21:02] Everybody, and I, I might get pushed back and I understand and I understand why young women now are like, what the fuck? Sorry Linda. That, like, how, how could you not have said something? And I even heard an interview with, and I can't remember who was interviewed. It was some congress person that was like, it was a swalwell friend.
[00:21:25] That said, well, you know, I'd heard about the flirting, but you know, I would see him with his wife and it seemed like it was okay, and they'd been together a long time. So why would I say anything? Why wouldn't you say anything? You probably didn't say anything because you didn't wanna lose that democratic seat.
[00:21:44] That's why you didn't say anything. This is not about protecting humans, it's about protecting your tribe. That's what I think. And now I think the people have just had it.
[00:21:55] Jolene: I mean, are you complicit then, you
[00:21:58] Nicole: I think you are,
[00:21:59] Jolene: [00:22:00] if you are go, oh yeah, I knew that he was creepy, or I knew that I, I mean
[00:22:06] Nicole: we all, well, like as humans, we all, we do that. We don't wanna stir the pot. and you know, I think women, these, these women that have come out, it's such a courageous thing to do and I think that a lot of times it takes a while because they're scared of the backlash 'cause we're so ready to, uh, discount them or, you know, what were you wearing?
[00:22:29] Did you drink like, all the things that could make it their fault, which it's not their fault. And then that, that, that video I sent you.
[00:22:40] Jolene: I,
[00:22:40] Nicole: Where they were like, it's not ai, it was from AP News where they had a camera, they showed, uh, maybe you didn't see it, of swallow with a girl.
[00:22:49] Jolene: oh no, I haven't seen that yet.
[00:22:51] Nicole: And I'm just thinking, okay, I just keep thinking about his wife and how I'm just [00:23:00] heartbroken for this woman. And also the, the, the unbelievable ego on these people. It's, it's the time of cell phones and texts and emails. Nothing's private. Nothing's private, you guys.
[00:23:15] Jolene: So the fact that he thought he could run for governor.
[00:23:18] Nicole: Oh,
[00:23:18] Jolene: And like this stuff wouldn't come out. Like he just
[00:23:22] Nicole: just enough?
[00:23:23] Jolene: an ego trip that, uh, I, I'll just, I can do more and more and more and more and more
[00:23:28] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:29] Jolene: here.
[00:23:30] Nicole: Okay.
[00:23:30] Jolene: But you know, this always, always conjures up
[00:23:35] Nicole: Oh.
[00:23:36] Jolene: the,
[00:23:37] Nicole: conspiracy theory. I knew it.
[00:23:39] Jolene: me.
[00:23:40] Nicole: I saw your face
[00:23:41] Jolene: now?
[00:23:42] Nicole: like
[00:23:43] Jolene: now? Did all of these girls come, these women come forward. now and why together? And how did the, you know how this seemed like a really curious time as he was number one in the polls for the [00:24:00] governor,
[00:24:00] Nicole: mm-hmm.
[00:24:00] Jolene: nominee
[00:24:01] Nicole: here's the deal, y'all. I don't care.
[00:24:02] I don't care who did it. He's an fucking scumbag. I said it Linda. He's a scum bag. And it's all about power. Keep it in your pants. That's what I wanna say.
[00:24:16] Jolene: You know who should have elected office right now. In, uh, and I don't care from the local level up to the presidency, it should be a menopausal woman because number one, our libido is so low that you, you know, you don't have to worry about us doing anything inappropriate. We we're up at three o'clock in the morning.
[00:24:36] Oh my gosh,
[00:24:37] Nicole: you want to get some
[00:24:38] Jolene: stuff done? We're gonna get climate
[00:24:40] You
[00:24:40] Nicole: want to get climate change, uh, fixed. Give it to a woman having a hot flash, she'll sign anything and get that done. I'm telling you right now, bipartisan, a menopausal
[00:24:51] woman is the best
[00:24:52] Jolene: person to run this country right
[00:24:55] Nicole: now Agreed. Agreed. , where do we go from here? [00:25:00] Jolene, do you have a tidbit of advice for both the left and the right?
[00:25:04] get to know each
[00:25:05] Jolene: other. I, I think
[00:25:06] Nicole: other. Yeah.
[00:25:06] Jolene: so excited about, um, we've got listener and viewer. We've got some really fun, really good
[00:25:13] Nicole: coming
[00:25:14] Jolene: up, um,
[00:25:15] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:15] Jolene: in the next, um, several weeks. opportunities that, that have come our way, and we are so excited to bring 'em to you and to be a part of, of
[00:25:24] Nicole: Some of these.
[00:25:26] Jolene: programs. the main thing in
[00:25:29] Nicole: All of this
[00:25:29] Jolene: is
[00:25:30] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:25:31] Jolene: is,
[00:25:31] Nicole: Is being able to get to know
[00:25:34] Jolene: somebody
[00:25:34] Nicole: talk to somebody on a personal level
[00:25:36] Jolene: because
[00:25:37] Nicole: without that,
[00:25:39] Jolene: again, we come in
[00:25:40] Nicole: preconceived notions
[00:25:41] Jolene: of who someone is
[00:25:42] Nicole: on what they like.
[00:25:43] Jolene: like.
[00:25:44] Nicole: Um, judging people,
[00:25:45] Jolene: Um,
[00:25:46] Nicole: what they
[00:25:47] Jolene: like or what they have on, or what kind of
[00:25:50] Nicole: car.
[00:25:50] Jolene: they drive or whatever. And until we, you actually get to talk to somebody, you have no idea. that's what we've lost with social media
[00:25:57] Nicole: yep.
[00:25:58] Jolene: are able just to say
[00:25:59] Nicole: Whatever they [00:26:00] want.
[00:26:00] Jolene: um, and there's no repercussions.
[00:26:02] Nicole: Agreed. I know we don't really do good for the souls anymore, which makes me sad sometimes, but I have, we have to do one right now, this is an important one that people should follow.
[00:26:13]
[00:26:16] Nicole: It's at the Enemies project. And I think that this is, if you don't know this handle on Instagram, it's helping quote enemies unquote, rediscover the human being in each other. And I have sent Jolene a bunch of, these videos where they have like.
[00:26:36] A black woman and a self-proclaimed, white supremacist, and there's this mediator and they talk and it's incredible. It's very moving. It's very difficult. and I think this is exactly what we, where do we go from here? We start recognizing each other's humanity again.
[00:26:55] Jolene: Yep.
[00:26:56] Nicole: Right. How about a, would you rather I do have a wood rather. Right [00:27:00] on.
[00:27:00] Jolene: you
[00:27:01] Nicole: do.
[00:27:06] Mine is very simple.
[00:27:08] Jolene: and, I will tell you how I came up with this. Um, wait, can I go first? Okay. Thank you. I was just bullying my way right in there. Um. I am only 57. Are we? 57.
[00:27:24] Nicole: I, I'm not yet.
[00:27:25] Jolene: Oh, that's right. I am older than you.
[00:27:29] Nicole: I'm
[00:27:29] Jolene: only
[00:27:30] Nicole: years old, but my obsession with birds
[00:27:34] Jolene: right now, I feel like I'm 87.
[00:27:38] Nicole: that is not at all what I thought you were gonna say, okay?
[00:27:41] Jolene: I absolutely am obsessed with
[00:27:44] Nicole: Young people can like birds.
[00:27:45] Jolene: these. I, I, I know. I absolutely just feel like I, like I am
[00:27:50] Nicole: So mad
[00:27:51] Jolene: that we have our hummingbird feeder out, and we have not had any hummingbirds yet. But my friend up the hill has
[00:27:58] Nicole: two days ago.
[00:27:59] Jolene: I,
[00:27:59] Nicole: [00:28:00] I'm so upset.
[00:28:00] Jolene: by that
[00:28:01] Nicole: She texted me.
[00:28:02] Jolene: me, I'm like, it.
[00:28:03] How did she get 'em first?
[00:28:05] Nicole: Do you have sugar water in there? Yes. Yeah. I love hummingbirds. I am
[00:28:09] Jolene: know I watch the loons that are out on the water. I love the loons. We've got geese. I, I've just, there, I'm going through, uh, speaking of algorithms, I'm going through my phone the other day and there was an ad for, um, wait, do you know what Shazam
[00:28:25] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:28:26] Jolene: The
[00:28:26] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:27] Jolene: Okay. So if you, if you have a song that you hear, you're at a restaurant and you hear a song, you can push Zam and it will say, oh, that's. Um, 21st of September by the Earth, wind and Fire.
[00:28:41] Nicole: there's an,
[00:28:42] Jolene: now that you can get an app for bird songs. So if you're walking, you can push that and it will tell you what kind of bird it is. And I, I, didn't get it because I don't know how much it costs, and I don't know if it's free. If it's free, I should just get it. But now it keeps coming up in my algorithm because I, I
[00:28:58] Nicole: It's, it's [00:29:00] tempting you.
[00:29:00] Jolene: interested. Yes. here's my long-winded. Would you
[00:29:06] Nicole: I'm ready.
[00:29:08] Jolene: would you rather be a bird or a fish,
[00:29:12] Nicole: Oh.
[00:29:12] Jolene: fly or swim? And you can be whatever kind of bird or fish you want. So you could be a whale and you could, you
[00:29:20] Nicole: Mm.
[00:29:20] Jolene: you know, travel up and down the west coast seasonally. Or you could be a bird, you could be a hummingbird. You could go all the way to South America and then come back to North America.
[00:29:30] Nicole: This might be a long answer. I love the water. but I was never a SN Keller and we went on a holiday and we went snorkeling, and I found it. Exhilarating and terrifying. I was surrounded by all these fish like I like, and, and the guide was like, whoa, like it was wild. and there was this sort of sense of like, [00:30:00] there is this world down there that we really don't know much about.
[00:30:05] Jolene: Yes. That freaks
[00:30:06] Nicole: It freaks me out even though I am a water baby to the ends of the, ends, every water sport. Like I love the water, but that kind of scares the crap out of me. So my, my answer as I'm gonna fly, baby,
[00:30:23] Jolene: Okay. I like
[00:30:26] Nicole: And I do think that, you know, we're super into the space thing and I love the space. I was obsessed with Artemis.
[00:30:32] I was obsessed. Obsessed. But I do think we need to start exploring the seas in a way that we haven't. Yeah,
[00:30:42] Jolene: since Trump was the, like the moon and the space president, maybe the next president will be the Sea, the Deep
[00:30:50] Nicole: that's what I'm thinking.
[00:30:51] Jolene: Oh,
[00:30:52] Nicole: like it. I like it.
[00:30:55] Jolene: Okay. Okay.
[00:30:56] Nicole: Would you rather be alone [00:31:00] all of your life or surrounded by really annoying people?
[00:31:09] Jolene: Oh, I'm absolutely gonna be alone. I like, I have to fight, like enjoying being alone all as it is. I could be a herm. I really think I could be
[00:31:23] Nicole: Really.
[00:31:24] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:31:25] Nicole: Okay.
[00:31:26] Jolene: if they're annoying
[00:31:27] Nicole: I know,
[00:31:28] Jolene: no.
[00:31:28] Nicole: I know. I, I, I chose that because I was like, we're just annoying each other right now. And it's,
[00:31:36] Jolene: Oh, I see what you
[00:31:37] Nicole: yeah, I did, but I, I don't think we need to, and I don't think you should be alone. 'cause I don't think that's good for you. Not you, just a person. It's not good for you.
[00:31:46] Jolene: No, you're right.
[00:31:47] Nicole: But being with annoying people is really annoying.
[00:31:50] Jolene: Ugh.
[00:31:51] Nicole: Right. Jolene, thank you for having this conversation with me. You are welcome. Thank you.
[00:31:59] Jolene: 'cause I
[00:31:59] Nicole: [00:32:00] Where this is going, so
[00:32:01] Jolene: this was good. I think again, we find things that we are more aligned on than
[00:32:06] Nicole: Absolutely
[00:32:07] Jolene: and um, I think we're finally at that place
[00:32:10] Nicole: listener and viewer. Thank you so much for hanging in with us and please like, subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts. please reach out to us and let us know what you want us to talk about. We've had some very, um, some really good suggestions that have been very well received once we've put it out into the ether, so we'd love to hear what you wanna talk about.
[00:32:32] Um, anything else, Joe, share this with a friend.
[00:32:35] Jolene: please.
[00:32:36] Nicole: Share it.
[00:32:37] Jolene: somebody who you don't know is a friend,
[00:32:38] Nicole: There.
[00:32:39] Jolene: maybe
[00:32:40] Nicole: There you go.
[00:32:41] Jolene: maybe this will start a conversation
[00:32:43] Nicole: you go.
[00:32:44] Jolene: that's where it all starts. So thank
[00:32:46] Nicole: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:32:47] Jolene: you.
[00:32:47] Nicole: do.
[00:32:48]
