Working Full-Time But Still Poor: The 55 Million American Households We Need To Talk About
There's a massive group of Americans we don’t talk enough about; people who work full-time, pay their taxes, and still can't afford basic necessities. They earn too much to qualify for government assistance but too little to actually survive. They're called ALICE: Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed. And they represent 38 million households (29% of America). Combined with those below the federal poverty line, that's 55 million households, or 42% of the entire country, struggling to make ends meet.
I (Jolene) learned about ALICE through a friend who works for United Way, and honestly, it changed how I think about poverty in America. As a conservative, I've always believed in personal responsibility and hard work. But ALICE represents people who are doing everything right - working full-time jobs, showing up every day, contributing to society, and yet they still can't make ends meet. That's not a character failure. That's a system failure.
Nicole's perspective as a liberal aligns with mine on this more than you'd expect. She sees ALICE as proof that the social safety net has massive gaps. You can work full-time and still not afford childcare, housing, transportation, and healthcare. The federal poverty line is outdated and doesn't reflect the actual cost of living, which is exactly why United for ALICE created the Household Survival Budget. This is a metric that reflects the real minimum costs of necessities like housing, childcare, food, transportation, healthcare, and technology, plus taxes, adjusted for every county in the United States.
What's particularly striking is that ALICE spans all races, ages, ethnicities, and abilities, though households of color are disproportionately represented. This isn't a problem affecting just one demographic. It's everywhere, in every community nationwide. The single mom working two retail jobs. The family caring for an elderly parent, which makes it harder to find adequate work. The couple where both partners are employed full-time but their wages simply can't keep up with rising costs.
United for ALICE now operates in 39 states and D.C., using data-driven metrics to illustrate the pervasiveness of financial hardship. The ALICE Essentials Index tracks how the costs of household basics change over time, and the results are alarming: costs are rising faster than wages, which means more households are falling below the ALICE Threshold every year.
From my conservative viewpoint, this is exactly the kind of program that makes sense. It's not about permanent government support. It's about giving hardworking people a temporary boost so they can stabilize and eventually thrive on their own. These are people who are already working - many are working two or more jobs and still can't pay their bills. It's the hand-up versus handout distinction that conservatives have always championed.
Nicole's liberal take is that ALICE proves we need to fundamentally rethink how we define poverty and structure assistance. The federal poverty line is absurdly low and doesn't account for regional cost of living differences. Someone making $15 an hour might be fine in rural Mississippi, but can't survive in San Francisco. The Household Survival Budget shows us what financial security actually requires, and it's significantly higher than what most people earn.
What we both agree on: the current system is broken. You shouldn't have to work 60 hours a week across multiple jobs and still not be able to pay your bills. You shouldn't have to choose between paying rent and buying food. And you definitely shouldn't fall into financial ruin because your car broke down and you can't get to work.
The economic argument for supporting ALICE is actually pretty straightforward: poverty is expensive. Emergency room visits cost more than preventive care. Homelessness costs more than housing assistance. Kids who grow up in unstable situations require more intervention later. Investing in ALICE households now saves money in the long run while also being the morally right thing to do.
What frustrates us both is how this issue gets politicized. Conservatives worry about creating dependency. Liberals worry about insufficient support. Meanwhile, 55 million American households are working their asses off, often at multiple jobs, and still struggling. Maybe instead of arguing about philosophy, we could focus on the fact that full-time work should provide a livable wage and basic stability.
What we're really talking about is whether we believe that hard work should be enough to survive in America. Right now for 55 million households (42% of the country), it's not. That should bother everyone regardless of political affiliation. If we value work, if we respect people who show up and contribute, then we need to ensure that work actually provides basic security.
You can get involved with United for ALICE through their website at unitedforalice.org or through United Way in your state. You can donate, volunteer, or advocate for policies that support working families. You can also just start talking about this issue, because the first step to solving a problem is acknowledging it exists.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
ALICE Resources:
https://www.unitedforalice.org/
United Way National Overview (Interactive Map): https://unitedforalice.org/national-overview#4.5/36.316/-95.842
Books: Abundance by Ezra Klein: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488
Good for the Soul:
Ezra Klein & Spencer Cox: https://youtu.be/WJB87niNCk0?si=o7alUusFQMsS1I-6
Social Media/Inspiration:
https://www.instagram.com/jamestalarico/?hl=en
Plumes Officiel (Instagram):
https://www.instagram.com/plumesofficiel/
Business Resources:
Mark Cuban MasterClass - Win Big in Business:
https://www.masterclass.com/classes/win-big-in-business/chapters/win-big-in-business Mark
https://www.costplusdrugs.com/
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[00:00:00] Nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what French should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud. Hello, Jolene.
[00:00:19] Jolene: Hello, my friend Nicole.
[00:00:22] Nicole: Welcome to, we've got to Talk.
[00:00:24] Jolene: Thank you for joining us today, uh, for, we've got to talk.
[00:00:28] Jolene: This is a topic that was given to us, by a friend of, of mine who works for the United Way, and they have a program that she really wanted to hear, uh, you know, from a, a conservative perspective and the liberal perspective, talking about this program. And, and I love this because I, I feel like it's something, number one, I don't feel like there's enough, discussion around this topic. so I think it's good and it, and I think it's good for us to talk about, to get the perspective, but I think also good just to get [00:01:00] this, um, this topic out into the open. And what I'm referring to is a program that the United Way has dubbed Alice. I think in the past we have, um, referred to this group of people as, um, the working poor, it's, it's really meant to encompass the asset, limited income constrained, employed.
[00:01:22] Jolene: So again, people who fall above the poverty level, yet still under, a level that is, working that they can afford, the basics in life. I love this because as a Republican, I feel like this is exactly, um, the group that needs the most help.
[00:01:42] Jolene: I think these are people that are working, they're not looking for a handout. They're not sitting around collecting a government check. These are people that are working and raising families and trying to make ends meet, and they just, they're not there yet. And so what are [00:02:00] the resources that are available to them to be able to, um, make ends meet?
[00:02:05] Jolene: And, and United Way, I think is doing a fantastic job of putting together, curating this program to help, um, this, this group of people that is, is a really, is a large group.
[00:02:18] Nicole: So, uh, because I love a trust whiteboard here is Alice. Can we see this? Alice? It's asset limited, income constrained, employed. And just to give you all a brief history, 'cause honestly, uh, Kirby had said, you know, I hear about this in the liberal, um, liberal take, but not in the conservative world. And as a liberal, I had actually never heard of this program.
[00:02:49] Nicole: And so, uh, she's, thank you Kirby, for your endless support in letting me email you multiple times to understand what this [00:03:00] was.
[00:03:00] Jolene: yes, she is so smart and she's such a resource for us on this topic. But I think she's, um, she spent a lot of time with the United Way and she does such great work with the United Way, so, um,
[00:03:10] Nicole: And she's, and what she was explaining is that the United Way, um, has its own chapters. Like she is the public. What did she say? She was? She is the public information officer for the United Way of Louisiana. Kirby wanted us to make it clear that Alice is more of a movement than a program that when the banks crashed in 2008, the United Way of Northern New Jersey. Their county is one of the wealthiest in New Jersey, they have a low poverty rate, but what they noticed was this strain all of a sudden for social programs, people were in need and they couldn't figure it out.
[00:03:56] Nicole: And so they started, asking questions and, and, and [00:04:00] doing research to figure out what was going on. And what they noticed was this group of people and in 2023 in terms of the entire United States, 13% live below the poverty lane. Those 13% can apply and receive, um, subsidies, help from the federal government.
[00:04:26] Jolene: So think social security, think, uh, snap programs, um, welfare checks, that type of thing.
[00:04:33] Nicole: and then also in 20 23, 20 9% of households in the United States are in the ALICE grouping. So if you add the 13% and the 29% in 2023, and the numbers have not changed, 42% of US households can't afford basic needs. Now, what does that mean? Safe, [00:05:00] affordable housing, quality, childcare and education, adequate food, reliable transportation quality, healthcare, reliable technology and savings. So here is. We can just take the 29%, which is quite large. A group of people who are fully employed, sometimes have multiple jobs and have to choose between medicine, childcare, healthy food, or don't even have access to healthy food.
[00:05:35] Nicole: As we've talked about in in other episodes previous to this and She said, when a community is stable, the Alice population thrives. And it made me think, this is work with me here, but it made me think about during the pandemic when President Trump. Here's the liberal saying this when [00:06:00] President Trump put out those like money to people to be able to survive at the beginning. And I remember my father receiving money and it was a life saver during those first couple months in the pandemic and how people, a lot of people were at home working remotely and money was, people were spending money. And when you spend money, the economy thrives. Like it's a, it's a positive ripple effect so that when you're in these, with these Alice households, you know, here's some other numbers for you.
[00:06:40] Nicole: 16 million people pay more than 30% of their income on rent and utilities. And, and one thing I thought was interesting is that there is no race discrepancy. It is free game, it's almost equal. Whites, blacks, Asians, Latinas, Latinos, like [00:07:00] they all are equally struggling. And yet we have also more, more billionaires than we've ever had, and yet we have 42% of this country that can't make ends meet.
[00:07:15] Jolene: So I think the other thing that, that this Alice program does that um, that is really shedding a light on this, is, um, they're really taking it. State by state, and then county by county. between 2007 and 2024, household essentials were 19 to 29% more expensive in urban areas than in rural areas.
[00:07:40] Jolene: And by 2025, basic household goods were most expensive in the west and the northeast, least less expensive in the south, but the least expensive in the Midwest. So trying to have the, the federal poverty level, um, kind of as a, as a, you know, a, a national standard obviously affects [00:08:00] people in New York differently than someone in, you know.
[00:08:05] Jolene: Blue Eye, Missouri. So, I, I think that's the other, the thing that, that Alice has really kind of dialed into this on a county by county level to be able then to, um, give the resources available to those, to those who need it, uh, the most.
[00:08:23] Nicole: And the Alice movement now is, it has grown from the one county in northern New Jersey to 39 states plus DC and Kirby's state of Louisiana, she was explaining is 51st if you're, when you're counting DC and New York City. New York is uh, 49th. And for instance, like the Bronx, 74% of those households are Alice households.
[00:08:55] Nicole: They can't afford their basic needs. New York City is so expensive, [00:09:00] and then Nassau County is 33%. And then today I emailed her and I said, who's number one, like, who's doing great? And she said. In our house, we were having a bet. Oh, it's gotta be this date, it's gotta be that state. And we were all wrong. Uh, she was saying North Dakota.
[00:09:19] Nicole: It was North Dakota, followed by Alaska and DC and they're still at 33%. So still 33% of their people live in this Alice, section.
[00:09:36] Jolene: category?
[00:09:37] Nicole: Yeah. Population. Um, I'm curious about something, Jolene. what is the income to be, uh, below the poverty line in order to get subsidies from the government?
[00:09:51] Jolene: For the 48 contiguous states in dc, the 25 poverty level, um, for a single person is [00:10:00] 15,650 and increases by 5,500 for each additional family member. for Alaska though, it's 19,500, and for Hawaii it's 17,900. oh, and then you can do the math for, so a one person family, a single person, it's 15,006 and $650.
[00:10:19] Nicole: That's below the poverty line. Those are the people that have access
[00:10:23] Nicole: to
[00:10:23] Jolene: that is the poverty line. Yep. So anything below that, correct.
[00:10:27] Nicole: so I'm curious, Joe, because that is so low does it, does it make sense to raise this these are just working people where the ra, the wages are not increasing to match the cost of living.
[00:10:45] Nicole: a lot of states minimum wage is really low and has not moved up. You know, each state has its own minimum wage. Right.
[00:10:53] Jolene: so yes, I think we, we found out in our research that, um, the, the federal guidelines were developed [00:11:00] in 1965 or something like that, and the parameters that they take a look at haven't really changed since then. And I think that's the other part of this Alice program is to really help identify, you know, what are those different categories to which people need to need help.
[00:11:18] Jolene: And you had talked about, you know, housing, healthcare, childcare, insurance. I think it's, it's interesting though to look at this from our different perspectives because I would say, um, as the conservative, let's develop the programs. Let's, let's give to these programs, that are best suited. For their individual communities.
[00:11:41] Jolene: Because I think your, so your, your point was the economy and, and the society does better when this Alice Group becomes smaller, right?
[00:11:52] Nicole: when people are able to feel safe in their homes and, and they can afford things and they can save a little bit of money, [00:12:00] they then buy back into the community.
[00:12:03] Jolene: and I'd say the converse is true. You know, people, when the community does better, these people do better as well. And I think that's the beauty of the United Way, they have these programs already developed in the communities to which they have the people that they can help. and so when you are. An individual or a corporation or a foundation or, This is a great way to give to your community because these are people that are on the ground and, and helping, um, distribute these funds and develop the programs that are going to help the people the most.
[00:12:38] Jolene: It's it, they're there designed to help the people in that community instead of, you know, just an overarching, oh, let's raise the, the federal poverty level and give everybody a raise. that's why I, as a conservative, really like this program
[00:12:51] Nicole: I think it's absurd how low the poverty line is, but I also, and even though I am a liberal and I'm a Democrat, I do believe [00:13:00] that people thrive when they are in charge of their own destiny. I don't think that giving handouts helps people.
[00:13:10] Nicole: I think, you know, teach people how to, how to, um, grow their food. Don't just give them food like that, kind of like self-determination, I think, it's just a human thing to me that, that's, that's how someone thrives and, and goes through the world
[00:13:29] Jolene: in a Christian sense, we say. give a man a fish and, and you feed him for a day, but teach him to fish and he can feed for a lifetime. So you're absolutely right. let's develop these programs or look at these programs that will help get people out of poverty.
[00:13:44] Nicole: her particular, um, uh, United Way of Southeast Louisiana, she
[00:13:51] Jolene: Which is, can I, I'm sorry. And now I just please. Um, which is the New Orleans area. I mean, for, if you're not familiar with the [00:14:00] geography of Louisiana, that's really it. It's centers on New Orleans specifically, and the, in the, in the surrounding area.
[00:14:07] Nicole: she says, one example is, it's called Home for Good Partnership with the City of New Orleans. The initiative set at an an ambitious goal of housing 1500 individuals by the end of 2025. And as of August, 2020 five, thirteen hundred and twenty six people have already moved into homes bringing the city within reach of its target well ahead of schedule.
[00:14:32] Nicole: This success is built on three pathways to stability, closing encampments by moving residents directly into housing, accelerating exits from the city's low barrier shelter, and rapidly connecting all other unsheltered individuals to permanent housing. She says, our United Way has played a critical role using millions in public grant dollars to facilitate 200 rapid rehousing placements, [00:15:00] offering one year rental subsidies, supportive services, housing navigation, and case management to ensure individuals are housed, employed, and supported toward long-term success.
[00:15:13] Nicole: Already 136 placements are complete with the remainder expected by October. This work has transformed the city's low barrier shelter, allowing beds to turn over more quickly, long-term stayers to transition into housing and new individuals to access immediate support Together, these efforts are proving that with urgency, investment, and collaboration, new Orleans can create lasting solutions to homelessness. And then I'm gonna say one more thing. All that to say, if we want to create a country where fewer people have to rely on safety net programs to survive, this is her saying to all the, we've got the talkers.
[00:15:59] Nicole: [00:16:00] We need to support their trusted, proven nonprofits doing this type of transformative work. Donating to a single food bank will make a difference, but the system's change work needed to turn the tide on. Alice's biggest challenges require significant investment too. Government grants will come and go going more than we'd like, but it's the individual donors that have real staying power.
[00:16:29] Jolene: So 10% of, of United Way. And, and, and they're all different because they all act as, as a different, uh, entity. But a around, and, and this is, uh, for the, the United Way in the New Orleans area, about 10% of their money comes from federal grants. There is not a single line item in the federal budget that goes to United Way as a whole. so it's in the form of, of grants and contracts. so only 10% of their, of their [00:17:00] funding come. Funding comes from the national, from the federal government. So the other 90% comes from, state grants, um, and contracts and foundations and individual donors and corporations. And, and I think that's one of the things that United Way does such a great job of is, is kind of, working with that private public partnership of, with, with companies where you can automatically give from your paycheck.
[00:17:29] Jolene: You can give a certain dollar amount or a certain percentage every paycheck to the United Way. And, you know, all the, the big companies, the big corporations in America are, you know, are big United Way, um, givers and United Way does a lot of of good work. I think going back then to this, the conversation of, what is it that we could really do to help these people to get them out of this space?
[00:17:56] Jolene: And, you know, is it a jobs program? Is it [00:18:00] education? Is it, you know, the, you've, you've got to earn more. I mean, if you are working, you know, as a cashier at the grocery store or you know, minimum wage job, you're right that you are probably not going to make enough to, if you've got a couple of kids to be able to support them in and especially in an urban area where their costs are, are so much higher.
[00:18:25] Jolene: So you know, continuing to give, in opportunities that allow for people to, to get a better education. Or to get, um, opportunities for jobs with that will increase their income. has got to be the, the priority as well. And I love that United Way is doing programs to help them with, you know, finding affordable childcare, finding somebody to do their taxes for 'em.
[00:18:50] Jolene: Finding,
[00:18:51] Nicole: I've used that Vita service, that volunteer income tax association, uh, as a poor, yes. When I was, I didn't realize [00:19:00] that was a United Way program and as an actor, a young actor, and I was super poor and I certainly didn't know how to do my taxes and actor's equity, the theater union, in New York City. I mean, it's a national union.
[00:19:15] Nicole: Um, I would go and work with Vita and they would do my taxes for me for free, and it was one less stress in my life. And, um, so it was exciting to see that that program, uh, was from them as well.
[00:19:29] Jolene: that I think from the, from, again, going back to the Republican perspective, I, I have on here in the United States, nonprofits receive a total of $267 billion in government grants. So we fund a lot of programs the taxes that we are paying is funding a lot of government or a lot of funding programs for nonprofits to receive money, to be able to help those in their communities.
[00:19:59] Jolene: And I think, [00:20:00] the focus needs to be on getting help for these people to, you know, and, and I've put on here expanding the work requirements for welfare programs and supporting apprenticeship and job training and promoting to help promoting small business growth. stable two parent households, significantly reduce the likelihood of children growing up in poverty.
[00:20:23] Jolene: And I think, you know, promoting marriage initiatives and reducing the marriage tax penalties in, in the welfare system. and then of course when we start talking about schools expanding charter schools and school vouchers and educational savings accounts because, um, giving the, the parents in these poor urban areas, if your only choice is to send them to the public school, that because that's what they can afford. you know, if they're not getting a good education, we're just, we're not starting 'em off on the right foot from the very beginning.
[00:20:54] Nicole: I have to push back here Jolene, because like
[00:20:57] Jolene: I thought
[00:20:58] Nicole: people, [00:21:00] telling people that get married, um, she, in the, in the research that, that, uh, Kirby gave us 76% of, the Alice population our single mothers in, uh, Louis, in her, in her Louisiana, Southeast Louisiana. the Alice population was single parents.
[00:21:24] Nicole: This what I thought was interesting. Single parents, adults living with other people with no children, and a huge section were people over 65 years old.
[00:21:34] Jolene: mm-hmm.
[00:21:35] Nicole: E even. And, and that population is growing more than the other populations, whether you're married or not. I am not a huge charter school fan. Having lived in New York City, I don't think they're very good.
[00:21:48] Nicole: I think I would prefer that we figure out how to make our public schools good again. that's where, uh, I definitely would push back because it's [00:22:00] such an enormous, what I appreciated with Kirby was she was like, find a group you're passionate about and give to that program.
[00:22:08] Nicole: 'cause that will help in enormous sector. It, like she wasn't saying just go, you know, deal with food or just deal with medicine, if you wanna help giving to these, whether it be, helping to bring, um, organic produce or farmer's markets to underserved areas, making sure that people in underserved areas have, cell service have, have access to technology 'cause. You know how much we rely on technology, internet, and if you don't, then you can't find that job and you can't move forward. Or, or if you wanna give money to access to really good childcare or, another thing that I thought was fascinating was that an enormous, um, population has to commute at least 30 minutes to a job.
[00:22:58] Nicole: And they don't have reliable [00:23:00] transportation. They might not even have a car, they might not have access to prop, like if they're in an urban area. It's, it's not the most convenient transportation it didn't seem to matter where you put your money, but if you just, if you're helping in a larger sense, you will help all of us flourish.
[00:23:23] Jolene: I don't think we have to take a side here. like, I think this is a really good program because they're set up to help these people. But I dont think this is the only, I, I don't think this is the only solution.
[00:23:36] Jolene: I mean, I think the solution is actually, bigger. the underlying cause is that people don't have good enough jobs that are paying enough for them to be able to afford the healthcare and the affordable housing and the food and, and all that.
[00:23:52] Jolene: So
[00:23:52] Nicole: Well, and there also isn't enough affordable housing,
[00:23:55] Jolene: well, and it depends, again, this then depends on where you live
[00:23:59] Jolene: and, and [00:24:00] all that. So I think this is a great program for the circumstances that people are in. But do we really, what we really need is how to fix the, the situation that they're in,
[00:24:13] Nicole: yes. I mean, she did say she was like, she want, she said this is about, Alice is about changing the national dialogue about financial hardship. That I think possibly we as Americans think about the poverty line and that that. Those are the poor people and that they're getting help. like, is that how you've thought about it?
[00:24:37] Nicole: And she's suggesting that this Alice movement there is that including the 13% of the under the poverty line, that there are 42% of households in America that cannot get by,
[00:24:52] Jolene: right. is huge, right?
[00:24:55] Jolene: these are people that need help and they're what we used to call the [00:25:00] working poor. they need help and, and programs like the United Way, then there are resources out there to help this group of, of people. And there's also, you know, there are churches that have soup kitchen, you know, I'd call 'em soup kitchens.
[00:25:16] Jolene: But I mean, our church does a garage sale for, but then gives everything away to the, the poor. I mean, there are these programs locally. To help this group of people. And it's, it's great that the United Way has, has addressed, really, uh, specific programs of housing and childcare and tax help.
[00:25:40] Jolene: But the real issue is getting people to make enough money. And so what are the programs that we really should be focusing on, to prevent this group from even getting into this position, right?
[00:25:55] Jolene: Because, I mean, I'm sure the United Way would, would rather give [00:26:00] their money to disasters. United Way and New Orleans did such a fantastic job whenever we had hurricanes and, other areas or storms or floods or, you know, whatever it is, that the United Way has all these resources that come together to, to give, to get diapers and food and, and all of the things that, that, that people need in, uh, in a time of crisis. I think we need to take a look at this from a larger perspective and say, what are the things that we can specifically do to help people make more money so that they're not in this program to begin with?
[00:26:36] Jolene: Right.
[00:26:37] Jolene: one of the things that I, I found was the, um, the OP Opportunity Zones that were created under the, uh, 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that allow investors to receive tax benefits if they put money into businesses, housing or development pro projects in low income communities, such as, investing in a grocery store in what is known [00:27:00] as a food desert area, The reason we have food deserts in urban areas, um, are, are numerous. I mean, there's a lot of different reasons, but if we, as, as a government then, if we're incentivizing people who do have money, these investors and, people who want to revive these communities by giving them the tax benefits to invest in businesses and housing and development projects in these areas that benefit the people that are living in that area.
[00:27:29] Nicole: I would totally agree that that helps. I know that there's so much red tape. Ezra Klein wrote a book called Abundance that just came out this year, and it's all about, the government bureaucracy and red tape. And he follows this California initiative where they were going to build bridges and it's taking forever and nothing ever gets done. So I am with you, girl. Like to me, I am still a liberal and I am still a Democrat, but to me, I [00:28:00] feel like the more we do this podcast and the more, uh, we talk about these issues and the more divisive this, uh, country feels.
[00:28:13] Nicole: I truly, when you talk to people, I don't think it's as divisive as the social media portrays it. I'm pro-human and, and I am pro-American I am also not naive. I am aware that money talks in this country, period. Full stop. Done. And if there is a way to find, the private sector and the public sector to create, you know, more grocery stores and urban areas, more, um, health clinics and rural areas, more like all the, all the lists that we talked about. when communities thrive, we all thrive. and people, when, as I said to you, I guess before and it was a Trump thing during the pandemic, he like sent out a, were they credit cards or something? I can't remember. It was like a [00:29:00] Visa gift
[00:29:01] Jolene: No, we act actually got a check. I mean, you, it however you, however you did your taxes is like if you had an automatic, um, deposit on your tax refund, that's where the government just gave you a check,
[00:29:16] Nicole: when people feel secure, they are consumers,
[00:29:19] Jolene: because if you get those people in this, in this, in this. Alice sect that we're talking about, and you get them to make more money, then they're contributing to the tax base that's helping your schools and is helping the fire department and is helping the police department.
[00:29:34] Jolene: And they're spending money at the grocery store and they're buying things at the hardware store. And you're right, it helps everybody.
[00:29:40] Nicole: if 42% are struggling, which is a ton of people and 58% of us can help, let's help. And even better, because money talks make these be tax breaks so that the 58% are encouraged to make these programs [00:30:00] thrive,
[00:30:01] Nicole: to meet, Hallelujah.
[00:30:02] Nicole: This is not a liberal thing. This is not a Democrat thing. This is not a conservative thing.
[00:30:08] Nicole: This is not a Republican thing. This is a human American thing. Look at your brothers and sisters and be like, okay, let's all, because Everyone wins. No one's getting a
[00:30:19] Nicole: handout. People are getting sa are living in safe, affordable housing. the affordability in housing in New York and California and Utah for that matter. it's bananas. and also healthcare. We know healthcare is so expensive for those of us that can make ends meet, we're strained. and there's an enormous amount of people that are uninsured because they can't afford it.
[00:30:52] Nicole: They've gotta feed their kids or pay the rent or, and then God forbid, you have to go to the emergency room or you [00:31:00] have to go to the hospital. You're done.
[00:31:02] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:03] Nicole: So give to the United Way in
[00:31:06] Nicole: your
[00:31:07] Jolene: I, and if you can't afford to give money, go give of your time.
[00:31:11] Jolene: they need help. I mean, but your local, um, food pantry needs help, your church needs help, uh, synagogue, I mean, there are, there are absolutely opportunities for you to help your neighbor that you may not even know.
[00:31:28] Jolene: And by giving up your time or your talent or your treasure, this is absolutely, um, an area where we need to do a better job of as Americans giving of ourselves to help everybody else.
[00:31:43] Nicole: That's a really good point, Jolene, because, um, you know, thinking about our, how America got me an episode and the amount of disconnection we are feeling, the disconnected, lonely, mass shooters, uh, [00:32:00] people that are killing, whether it's Charlie, Kirk or whomever they are disconnected.
[00:32:05] Nicole: And the thing that you can do to get away from your screens, walk away from your screens, touch grass as Spencer Cox says, and give yourself, give your service. We need to remember that there are, we are just part of a, we're a small part of a whole community, and when you give your time, God, it feels good.
[00:32:30] Jolene: So Bobby, yesterday. volunteered. Her church, um, has a person who feeds the homeless every Saturday morning. And so, um, this was the first time that Bobby had volunteered and, and this is in Tampa, uh, Florida. and Bobby then was talking to the lady who heads this up.
[00:32:50] Jolene: They served 150 people and she said, um, this lady makes these meals in her home [00:33:00] and every week it's different. And it's, it's, it's whatever she has, you know, whatever somebody's donated. And she said this, this week we got a bunch of rice, so we're doing rice and beans, uh, burritos this morning. And I made 'em all up last night.
[00:33:14] Jolene: She spends her Friday. You know, doing all these meals so that Saturday morning they can pass 'em out and you're, and you're going, she spends two days really? Then this, this woman, God bless her, you know, Friday and Saturday to go and feed the homeless. You think that she's, you know, concerned about what's going on in the, in the world when you're that close to helping people who really need the most help.
[00:33:42] Jolene: I mean, that's, that's awesome.
[00:33:45] Nicole: Yeah, it is awesome. Which, um, reminds me of I have a good for the soul, which is very similar to this.
[00:33:55] Jolene: Let's hear it.
[00:33:59] Nicole: [00:34:00] it's this past Ezra Klein episode. I will put in the show notes. Um, he interviewed. the, uh, governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, listener and viewer, please watch this.
[00:34:14] Nicole: Listen to this. and Governor Cox, as I said before, he's a Republican and we could really all learned from him. he spoke with such grace about, what's going on, not, not only with how he dealt with, uh, the Kirk assassination, but how he's dealing with his life. He mentioned Utah is the number one, uh, state in service and in charitable giving. And re you know, he sort of reminded me as I was listening about how important services I've, you know, worked in the kids space. I love kids and I've worked with foster kids and I've worked with Drama Club, [00:35:00] NYC and, it is the most fulfilling work to help someone else. Um, and one thing that Governor Cox said that I thought was, was wild, and I loved it, was he says, my wife and I are 12 years sober.
[00:35:15] Nicole: And he paused a second and I was like, oh, I don't think you drank. And he goes, we are 12 years sober of watching cable news. He said, mm-hmm.
[00:35:29] Nicole: He said, my wife and I were addicted to Fox News, and it was. Killing our marriage. It was killing our marriage. It was killing our family. It was killing our, the whole thing.
[00:35:40] Nicole: We stopped we're, we've been sober for 12 years and everything is better. He's like, of course he has to watch some news because he's the governor. But, you know, now, as we've talked about on this podcast, there are so many in incredible resources these days of media companies that are really trying to [00:36:00] just tell the news, and because of this podcast, I feel so grateful for delving in, in a different way, that I'm not nearly as reactive and I'm, I'm seeing my lefty, uh, uh, media just as be like bending the truth as the right is. And it makes me pissed. I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. I used to just think that the left media was correct and the right media was skewed. And now we both are seeing all the time that so much of the left and the right media is just change, just changing the narrative just slightly to piss you off so that you keep clicking or you keep watching and that you keep hating each other.
[00:36:51] Nicole: Right. So anyway, Ezra Klein, I'll put it in the show notes. Governor Cox, he's a politician, just like James Teleco, [00:37:00] the, Texas State Legislator who's running for Senate. I'm just gonna, throughout this podcast, like, shout out impressive politicians. There aren't very many, and I'm really excited when
[00:37:13] Nicole: people write, so I'm gonna say Republican governor Spencer Cox. Write on my friend. Keep doing what you're doing. Democrat. James Teleco,
[00:37:26] Nicole: Keep doing what you're
[00:37:27] Nicole: doing.
[00:37:28] Nicole: So that's my good
[00:37:29] Jolene: Yep.
[00:37:30] Jolene: I love that because I also think that that has, obviously has come about since the Charlie Kirk assassination, but so many people are saying the same thing. Like it's, it's suddenly we're looking at the fringe of, of both of our parties and going, sorry, you guys have, have got us in this mess.
[00:37:49] Jolene: Nope. We are going to be the, we're tired of being the, the silent majority and now we are going to be the ones that that go, Nope, we're done [00:38:00] with y'all. Quit being idiots and we've got this from here. Thank
[00:38:03] Nicole: And I, and I, and I think it's important too, like. Shout out people that you might not necessarily agree with, that you're like, oh, I like what you had to say, or you, I, I, I never as, as Monica Guzman, who we're gonna interview, I never thought of it that way. Like, I think that stuff is really important. Right.
[00:38:25] Jolene: okay. My good for the soul is plumes. Offic. I don't know that that's actually how you say it, but that, how, that is how I would like to say it. But it is P-L-U-M-E-S-O-F-F-I-C-I-E-L on Instagram, plumes, offic, oficial or plumes official. I don't, it's however you wanna say it. it is a man who plays, usually he plays a guitar and he sings to animals [00:39:00] and like he'll sit at a zoo and depending on the animal, he'll
[00:39:04] Jolene: either sit inside the cage or outside the cage. Have you seen him?
[00:39:08] Nicole: Yes.
[00:39:09] Jolene: it is, it's the reaction of these animals to music is, so, I, I mean, I have gotten to the point this past week where I couldn't take, I was so emotionally spent that I couldn't take anything I could, I couldn't take anymore.
[00:39:24] Jolene: And so I, I just started watching any dog video that came through my feed. I was pushing it and, and watching it and sending it and liking it and con and, and commenting on it, because that's all I want my feed to be is dogs. I, because that just makes me. Happy and feel good. And I, that's all I needed. And so then all these things.
[00:39:46] Jolene: So then I'm getting a lot of animals now, and I absolutely love it. And it's so great. It's like jacking with the algorithms of social media. And so there you go. I'm not getting, I'm not getting menopause stuff anymore. [00:40:00] I'm not getting political stuff. I'm getting dogs and it's fantastic. he puts a lion to sleep. I mean, it's, it's so awesome. It truly is. I hope. Please don't tell me that it's ai. If somebody says that the whole thing is ai. I am, I'm gonna be so sad. I think
[00:40:18] Jolene: it's truly, I think
[00:40:18] Nicole: I think it's real. 'cause animals, they love music. Yeah. Who doesn't love music?
[00:40:24] Jolene: good. do you have a, would you rather Would you rather have Beyonce's talent or Mark Cuban's business Sense?
[00:40:43] Jolene: Oh, um,
[00:40:50] Nicole: It's a good one, I've had a crappy work week, and so I'm gonna have to go with Mark Cuban at this point, and so yeah, I'm gonna have to go. [00:41:00] I mean,
[00:41:00] Jolene: I'd love to sing like Beyonce.
[00:41:03] Nicole: I want, I want Beyonce
[00:41:05] Nicole: all the time. Oh, I
[00:41:07] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:41:08] Nicole: Are you kidding?
[00:41:09] Jolene: But,
[00:41:09] Nicole: But
[00:41:10] Jolene: but you love Mark Cuban.
[00:41:12] Nicole: I love him. I do.
[00:41:14] Nicole: Huge fan.
[00:41:16] Jolene: Okay.
[00:41:16] Nicole: like him?
[00:41:17] Jolene: Okay.
[00:41:18] Nicole: There's a
[00:41:19] Jolene: I don't know that I know enough about him.
[00:41:21] Nicole: there's a, I saw a great documentary about him on the plane, and I will see if I can look it up and put it in the show notes. I totally, I learned so much about who he was and what he's, what he.
[00:41:37] Nicole: Stands. Yeah. And, um, he's just, he's an, he's a really great businessman. He knows how to pivot, which I think is really important.
[00:41:46] Nicole: We don't do that
[00:41:47] Nicole: enough, right? When you, like, the chips are down and you're like, I'm gonna hold on. And he's like, Hmm. Let's, you know, I love his cost plus drugs, uh, company where he's, uh, giving, I'll put that in [00:42:00] the show notes. Affordable drugs for people. I think it's great. Um, that's right. I did tell you, because at the end of the documentary, um, he actually gives you his email address, and this was in 2022.
[00:42:15] Nicole: I don't know if his email address has changed. So what is, what do I do? I wrote him to ask him to tell him about, we've got to talk. I haven't heard back yet. That doesn't mean we won't Mark Cuban. Come on board and we got to talk and we can talk to you
[00:42:30] Nicole: about Mark, we'd magical pivot.
[00:42:33] Jolene: okay. Here's your, would you rather,
[00:42:34] Nicole: Okay.
[00:42:35] Jolene: would you rather have a job that you secretly hated but it pays all your bills or. Do something that you love every day, but you never get a day off.
[00:42:51] Nicole: Oh. Something that I love and I never get a day off. Hands down. Listen, I chose to be an [00:43:00] actor and I moved to New York City, like I was poor for so long, right? And, and, the belief in yourself and the belief in like doing something you love. Life's too short. Life's too short I, and doing this podcast,
[00:43:21] Nicole: like
[00:43:22] Nicole: I love
[00:43:22] Jolene: never get to go on vacation.
[00:43:25] Nicole: if
[00:43:26] Jolene: You never get to go on a vacation ever again.
[00:43:29] Nicole: If I'm doing something I love, it's okay. I'll be, I will be fueled
[00:43:33] Jolene: Wow. Okay.
[00:43:35] Nicole: doing something you hate just to make money. I think we, there's a lot of people in this, in this country, certainly, I can't speak for the world, but in this country that are in that place. And I, I would say to you, if you're in that place, uh, listener, uh, take a deep breath and jump meaning [00:44:00] like try something different and, 'cause you have no idea that the idea, when you do something you love, you actually have the opportunity to possibly make a living from it.
[00:44:12] Nicole: And if you can imagine a life where you make a living doing something you love, there's nothing
[00:44:18] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Yep.
[00:44:21] Nicole: There's nothing better.
[00:44:22] Jolene: So true. What a nice, what a nice note to end on.
[00:44:26] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:27] Jolene: Thank you for having this discussion with me.
[00:44:30] Nicole: Of course. Um, thank you Kirby for, uh, giving us all this information, uh, being willing to share the incredible work that you are doing, not only you in Louisiana, but the, uh, United for Alice in 39 states and dc. please like, subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcast. And we also are realizing, Day by day, week by week, [00:45:00] um, we are creating this. We've got to talk community, and we are so appreciative when you write to us and, um, you share your frustrations, you share your joys. Um, do us a favor and share, share us with a friend each time you share with a friend, a conservative friend, a liberal friend.
[00:45:23] Nicole: Our community gets bigger and the silent majority that Jolene was just talking about, that we're so tired and over it and we're not gonna deal with the nonsense anymore. That silent majority no longer is silent. We become a huge, we've got to talk community and we will welcome you and be kind to you, and listen to you and take your thoughts into account so that then we can share with everyone, um, who listens and watches us each week. Oh doll face. It's time to [00:46:00] say goodbye.
[00:46:02] Jolene: Bye-bye.
[00:46:04] Nicole: Bye.
