Trump, Putin, and Zelensky Meetings: What Really Happened Behind Closed Doors?
When Trump and Putin meet in Alaska, followed by Zelensky and European leaders rushing to D.C. to meet Trump 3 days later, you know something big is happening. But what exactly? The headlines give us locations and handshakes, but the real story is what we're not being told. Today we're diving into the kitchen-table conversations everyone's having but nobody wants to say out loud: What's really going on with this war, and who's actually calling the shots?
Jolene watched this Alaska meeting unfold with fascination. Here's Trump getting two of the world's most complicated leaders to sit down on American soil. That's not accidental. As a conservative, she’s curious about the power dynamics at play and what this could mean for America's position globally.
Nicole's reaction was pure skepticism. She's wondering if this was all performative theater, especially given how the media has painted Putin as the ultimate villain and a war criminal, and Nicole and Jolene both agree he’s bad news.
But here's what we both agreed on: these aren't casual coffee meetings. When world leaders drop everything to fly to remote locations, something significant is happening.
What does it say about Trump's influence that he can get Putin and Zelensky to the negotiating table and have European leaders scramble to join the conversation? Is it fear, respect, or something else entirely that motivates world leaders to rearrange their schedules to be part of the discussion.
Nicole has to admit, there's something compelling about Trump's ability to bring people to the table, even if I question his methods. But let's not pretend this is just about diplomatic charm. We're talking about trillions of dollars in resources, strategic positioning, and global power dynamics that most of us can't even comprehend.
The Real Chess Game
Here's what's bothering both of us: the secrecy. When major world leaders meet behind closed doors to discuss an ongoing war, and we only get carefully crafted press releases afterwards, what are we supposed to think?
Jolene raises a crucial point about Trump's tactics - is this masterful negotiation or something more concerning? Meanwhile, Nicole can't stop wondering about Putin's motivations and Ukraine's strategic resources. Who's really driving these conversations, and what are they promising each other?
The War That Won't End
Let's be honest about what's really frustrating here: this war keeps dragging on while leaders have secret meetings that supposedly bring us closer to peace. Everyone claims to want a ceasefire, but the conversations that could actually create one happen behind closed doors with no public accountability.
Despite our different political views, we both share the same desperation to see this conflict end in a way that respects sovereignty, addresses humanitarian concerns, and prevents further loss of life. But how do we actually get to peace?
The media gives us surface-level coverage - who shook hands with whom, where they met, how long they talked. But the substance? The actual proposals being discussed? The trade-offs being considered? We're left to speculate based on carefully managed photo ops and diplomatic speak.
Here's what we want to know: What are your thoughts on leaders making major decisions in secret? Do you trust that these meetings are moving us toward peace, or do you worry about what's being negotiated without public input? Are we asking the right questions, or are we missing something bigger?
The headlines will keep coming, but the real conversations - the ones that might actually matter, are happening in rooms we'll never see. That doesn't mean we should stop asking questions or demanding transparency from the people making decisions that affect all of us.
resources mentioned:
Straight Arrow News
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[00:00:00] Nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, but we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about.
[00:00:13] Nicole: Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:18] Jolene: okay. I'm so excited about this episode So today we're talking about Trump Putin Zelensky, meeting in Alaska, then meeting in DC with the European leaders
[00:00:29] Nicole: everyone's trying to grasp what's going on.
[00:00:31] Jolene: Right, I thought this was a great thing for us to talk about because I don't, I don't know if there's a lot of political sides to this. I think there's just a bunch of things to peel back in this whole situation that I'm so anxious to get your perspective on
[00:00:46] Nicole: why don't you share, your perspective, the research that you've been doing, what you're thinking.
[00:00:51] Jolene: when we first talked about doing this episode, I thought that it was such a huge deal that. Putin and Trump were meeting in [00:01:00] Alaska, you know, in on us, soil, that this was a big deal and I thought, and I think it's progress that we're you know, meeting, and that was on a Friday and then turned around on Monday and all of a sudden you've got, you know, Ukrainian President, Zelensky in Washington, DC with all of these European leaders.
[00:01:20] Jolene: Like all of a sudden they made plans to get, and I just thought it was a really cool moment as an American. that we've got an American president who was able to get all these people to the table and have a conversation about a horrible war that should not be going on.
[00:01:34] Nicole: I do think it's, you know, very interesting that he was able to. Get Putin to meet. I think, you know, in the liberal media, uh, there's a lot of resistance. We see Putin as a war criminal. would you, let's start there.
[00:01:53] Jolene: Yeah. No, I think Putin is a, is a bad actor. I think We can't trust him.
[00:01:58] Nicole: so this is exciting. So we're on the [00:02:00] same page that it was like, well this is interesting, that this is happening. you know that I love to use the word performative, but I thought a lot of it is at the moment very performative. 'cause we don't really know what's going on, what the, what's behind closed doors.
[00:02:17] Nicole: We don't know. You know, there's a ton of pomp and circumstance with the plane and the red carpets and the handshakes and Alaska and
[00:02:25] Jolene: B2B B2 bombers.
[00:02:28] Nicole: Like, Hey, don't step outta line 'cause look what's up there.
[00:02:31] Jolene: yeah. Yeah. Right?
[00:02:33] Nicole: I mean, it was just sort of like, okay, uh, there you go. and then in terms of, I think there was, there it was Finland, Italy, France, Germany, Britain, and then two other people. when that happened, at least in the liberal media, the way they portrayed it, it was like these people were coming to protect Zelensky because of what happened [00:03:00] in that meeting in February where, He was kind of thrown to the wolves and it also seemed very, uh, planned
[00:03:09] Jolene: And he, and
[00:03:10] Jolene: we talked about
[00:03:11] Nicole: that way?
[00:03:12] Jolene: Well, I felt that he was combative and disrespectful. I mean, you know,
[00:03:16] Nicole: Oh, you did.
[00:03:17] Jolene: when he was there the first time you're talking about Zelinsky in the, in the Oval Office.
[00:03:22] Nicole: correct. And you didn't feel like JD Vance was sort of like, and there was that reporter? I'm assuming you watched it, but I don't know. and again, it's there's so much performance that I, I wanna know what, like, is anything really going on, but the fact that Zelensky came in a suit,
[00:03:37] Nicole: this time, and according to my research, he thanked Trump over 12 times.
[00:03:45] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:46] Nicole: and in the interaction, and I don't know if you caught this, they showed it, they, they had it on the liberal media. Liberal media, meaning, it was on the daily, the headlines, up first NPR. and my new favorite, that [00:04:00] straight hour news. I love that Little straight arrow news. We, we've mentioned Straight Arrow News before. but they also do a little snippet via podcast, like the headlines that are recommended to Jolene
[00:04:13] Nicole: think they're great.
[00:04:14] Nicole: They're very, even. and just report the news. But anyway, there was the interaction where, he's in a suit and then a reporter goes, you look fabulous. Did you hear
[00:04:27] Jolene: Yeah. Oh, well, I think I, I read about it
[00:04:29] Jolene: or, yeah.
[00:04:29] Nicole: look fabulous. You look fabulous. And then Trump goes, I know, I've told him. I've told him. And then, and Trump then turns to Zelensky and goes, that's the guy that, threw you under the bus.
[00:04:41] Nicole: He didn't say that term, but he was like, that's the reporter. That talked about you not wearing a suit last time, and, and Zelensky looks at the reporter and goes, well, I changed. You're still wearing the same suit.
[00:04:54] Jolene: Oh.
[00:04:54] Nicole: changed. And they all laughed and I was just like, this is so [00:05:00] weird. And like bravado, sort of cocky.
[00:05:05] Nicole: But Trump loved it. everyone seems to be learning how to play Trump's game. that's what I'm experiencing. I don't know if that's a liberal thing or not.
[00:05:15] Jolene: No, I would say, I would say you're right. And, but the Republicans I think would say good for them. because Trump's in charge. Trump is saying, this is how we're gonna do this, y'all get here by Monday because we gotta sit down and talk about this. Like, I feel like he is absolutely in control and, and that America looks like the one who is, um.
[00:05:38] Jolene: Is is the leader in all this is, is saying, let's get everybody, um, on the same page here and let's get this resolved. Do you think it like that?
[00:05:45] Nicole: I mean, I, I'm assuming the Putin thing happened and then Trump is like, okay, let's zelensky, let's make a meeting. And that the European leaders, like they all cut off their, they summer vacations and they jumped on that plane and they're [00:06:00] like, we need to have a united front because we need to pro number one, protect this man Also, they're next door.
[00:06:08] Nicole: Like it is real for them. again, I am, I am really happy to be doing this podcast, to teach myself a all these new things because you just, right.
[00:06:19] Nicole: You just have these, these headlines. We all do. We have these headlines. We react, we we're pitted against each other. And then I can deep dive and go, oh, wait a minute, okay. In World War ii, Europe was demolished. Is this what you're gonna say?
[00:06:36] Jolene: N no, but, uh, no. The same. I agree. Like the, like this is giving us, I think you and I, before we started doing this podcast, we, um, were only looking at our own media and we were taking those sound bites and I think this is so typical for so many of us Americans and, and maybe worldwide, I don't know we're so busy.
[00:06:56] Jolene: That we get the snippets that we can, we don't read [00:07:00] articles anymore. And in a, in a paper and read, you know, not just the headlines on the first page, but then go to, you know, um, the C-section and look at, you know, we don't do that anymore. Like we're, we're, we want our information in 15 second soundbites and then we move on.
[00:07:16] Jolene: And so if we're only looking at our own stuff and it feeds us what we want, and then we look at the next problem and the next issue, and I mean, we're feeding our brains so much that when we can really dial in on something, it's so helpful.
[00:07:30] Nicole: absolutely. And so, one thing that I learned, and maybe our viewer or listener knows this and is much smarter than me, and great, if you are cool, you can, you know,
[00:07:41] Jolene: Cool.
[00:07:42] Jolene: Good for you.
[00:07:43] Nicole: help help a girl out. But, um, one thing that I've learned was like, so in the World War ii, the European allies were.
[00:07:52] Nicole: Devastated, like monetarily devastated. Their land was devastated and the United States took up the [00:08:00] slack and they took and they made sure that they were protected and that, and that they had, however, however many years to build up their economies. And so if there was something wrong, the United States would come in and say, we got you.
[00:08:16] Nicole: We're gonna help protect you. And there are certain things that I actually can understand that Trump might say, Hey, you guys are flourishing now. You need to cut. You know, take up some slack. in some ways, of course that makes sense that we should not always be the rescuers,
[00:08:35] Nicole: even though we are the most, uh, we are the richest country in the world and, and all of that. And I, and I do believe, and I don't know if you do that, like cutting U-S-A-I-D-I I'm a huge believer in soft power.
[00:08:50] Nicole: And I think that the, the world runs better when we are the top and that we can aid other countries that are [00:09:00] not doing so well. And it also makes us look good.
[00:09:03] Jolene: Okay, wait. All right, so let me stop you for a second. Go back to, you didn't answer my question of do you think this may, no, you don't have to apologize. You were very excited to talk about your research as you should be. do you think that made Trump look good or it made America look good that he got everybody here?
[00:09:24] Nicole: I think I see it differently.
[00:09:27] Jolene: How do you.
[00:09:28] Nicole: I see it where he met with Putin and then he is like, okay, I'm gonna meet with Zelensky I don't see that. He said, okay, leaders, world leaders come on too. I think people are so afraid of him. That's what is concerning to me is that it's not out of.
[00:09:48] Nicole: Wow. He's such a mover and shaker. I think a lot of people are terrified of him and terrified what he can do to their country or to zelensky. if the zelensky thing falls [00:10:00] apart, Putin can start moving into these other countries. I think part of it is that, and also Trump is super erratic.
[00:10:06] Nicole: We all know this. And so people are trying to get on his good side. And I don't think it's because they like him. I think it's 'cause they're scared of him. I am uncomfortable with a leader that people are scared of.
[00:10:16] Jolene: Even though, when's your leader and he's looking out for your interests as an American?
[00:10:21] Nicole: don't like it. I don't like bullies.
[00:10:24] Jolene: All right. So we just see that differently. I see it as a powerful leader who is bringing people to the table and trying to end this war. I used to think that
[00:10:31] Jolene: I think there's other things at play here.
[00:10:33] Jolene: It
[00:10:34] Nicole: Oh, Jesus. What?
[00:10:37] Jolene: a week ago, I would've told you. I think it's a great thing that Trump is, is gotten both sides together when he met with Putin, I think he wanted a ceasefire.
[00:10:46] Jolene: He didn't get it. And so, but he had a, he, he said he had a great conversation with, with Putin, so he probably, I think they talked about a lot of different things. I'm assuming that was, has not been revealed. We don't know [00:11:00] what they talked about. They talked for two and a half hours or three hours or something like that.
[00:11:04] Jolene: And then he met with the, the European, um, union, leaders and, and Zelensky, and had a meeting with them. but nothing has been decided yet. So, my take at that point was, I think it's great that he's got enough power that he could get all these people together within a three day period and have conversations.
[00:11:22] Nicole: Okay.
[00:11:24] Jolene: Okay. All right.
[00:11:26] Nicole: Okay.
[00:11:26] Nicole: Okay.
[00:11:27] Jolene: So then,
[00:11:28] Nicole: okay. Uh oh.
[00:11:30] Jolene: then you take a look at why did he come away with Trump being the great negotiator that he says that he is?
[00:11:38] Nicole: Right,
[00:11:39] Jolene: why did he come away with not getting the one thing that he wanted, which was a ceasefire from, from Putin?
[00:11:46] Nicole: right.
[00:11:47] Jolene: Why would someone like Trump, who is egotistical and, and um, all that come away with something that he didn't get?
[00:11:58] Jolene: But still said that he [00:12:00] was, that it was a good meeting. Right. That doesn't, that doesn't sound like something that Trump would do. Right.
[00:12:05] Nicole: Yes,
[00:12:07] Nicole: I do. I mean, Trump always tries to put, he's a, he's an incredible spin artist. Like, and he is also as the, as the, we all know that he is very influenced by the last conversation.
[00:12:21] Nicole: So that when he was with Putin and he was like, it's gonna be a ceasefire.
[00:12:25] Nicole: And then he didn't get it right and then he was like, still a great conversation. and the un the European Union wants a ceasefire.
[00:12:34] Jolene: Or do they,
[00:12:35] Jolene: I didn't. Okay. Alright. You know, I love a good conspiracy
[00:12:43] Jolene: and so I'm really trying to dig into this,
[00:12:46] Nicole: okay. I also wanna like talk about why the war's not ending. ' When the war started, when Russia invaded Ukraine. I think they thought it was going to end in like three [00:13:00] days. And the Ukrainians were a force to be reckoned with. my research, and this was in the New York Times, they did a bunch New York Times and and t they said that, uh, Russia's best soldiers died at the beginning of the war. They lost 230,000 soldiers. And and what I thought was interesting, as I remember when the war began, thinking to myself, do the Russia people actually know what's going on?
[00:13:28] Nicole: ' cause that's always a fascinating thing, right? Like, I've actually, I went to Moscow in 1993. obviously it was a very different time, but it was very controlled what the people saw and heard. So I thought for the, and at that time, the mosque, the Moscow Bytes were. Becoming more Western and they liked it.
[00:13:52] Nicole: my boyfriend at the time, uh, was an American who was part of an advertising agency [00:14:00] that was coming to Russia, to coming to Moscow.
[00:14:02] Nicole: Like Pizza Hut was like crazy expensive and people were crazy about it. but all the Russian, uh, the communist stars were coming off of the buildings and the Old Ramen off Eagle was going back up onto the, uh, the building sort of as a sign of independence
[00:14:20] Nicole: or new new beginnings. And so, I always have been thinking about like, well, do the Russians actually understand what's going on?
[00:14:30] Nicole: What are they being fed? Where are they not being fed? And one thing that was really interesting to me in this New York Times article, which I'm gonna pull out the newspaper, this is from, Wednesday, August 20th, and I'm gonna talk about these things. Uh, and it's why Putin has the upper hand. And one thing that thought was fascinating, Jolene, was that there was a time they lost, [00:15:00] Russia was not doing well in the war, and they lost all these soldiers, like their best soldiers.
[00:15:04] Nicole: And it was like, what's, what's gonna happen? How is this gonna work? And you were starting to see protests in Russia,
[00:15:12] Nicole: like the, the young liberally. Like, this is not cool. Well, from, from this article, it talked about how Putin was determined, is determined to win, and that he started, for lack of a pet word, this is my word, creating boun bounties for people to join the army.
[00:15:39] Nicole: And so he paid the, the amount, the typical, um, wage for a Russian soldier now is three times the amount of a normal working class person. And so they are successfully recruiting a thousand people a day, which is twice as much as Ukraine is. And from [00:16:00] this, like at first there was, they were talking about, they were recruiting alcoholics, people on the street just like basically bodies.
[00:16:09] Nicole: And this I found. Wild and horrifying. So they get there four times. The amount or what? I'm sorry, not to misquote. Three times the amount of a normal wage for a west, a working class wage. A limb amputation is $36,000 more. A crushed foot is $36,000 more. A penetrating skull wound is $36,000 more. A finger fracture is $12,000. If you capture a leopard tank, it's $12,000. If you destroy a launcher, it's $3,600. You destroy a helicopter, it's $2,400, and if you receive a medal, it's an extra [00:17:00] $12,000. So in this article, it's talking about that these soldiers are like, I can pay my bills, I can take care of my parents, and what they're saying is that the middle class is not, protesting. 'cause they're like, they have enough people. They don't have to, they don't have to recruit. Like, I'm okay. I don't have to go to
[00:17:21] Jolene: Aren't they? But aren't they in a communist country? So why would, uh, why are they motivated by money? I mean, isn't that the whole point of being a communist country? Is
[00:17:30] Nicole: oh. it's not like that. I mean, certainly when I was there, you've got, it's, it's, you've got rich, very, very rich people. You have a middle class and you have a working class. So it's not, it's not like the movies that we think, like when we did that, that, um, episode about, and I mentioned about China and how they don't basically have a social safety net to make people work, but that they can invest in tons of real estate, which doesn't sound very.
[00:17:58] Nicole: Communist. I'll have to say [00:18:00] Jolene is that I found that like super fascinating and that I don't believe anything Putin says, and I'm not sure if you do either.
[00:18:08] Nicole: And Zelinsky doesn't either. Like he's had a lot of experience with it. And he's saying, and that's what he got in trouble with Trump back in February is he said a very, like, don't diplomat, that's not what he said, but like, they're not into diplomacy.
[00:18:25] Nicole: And that's when the firestorm happened in that particular conference. And Zelensky wants Trump to put, um, sanctions on Putin and Trump is not doing it. So, and the one thing that I thought was wild is that Russia insists that they are part of the security plan in the peace deal. And I'm like,
[00:18:48] Nicole: how's that gonna work?
[00:18:50] Nicole: How's that
[00:18:51] Jolene: protect you. Yeah, you're, you
[00:18:52] Nicole: I, I am like, this makes so, so to me it feels like, yes, I do think Trump's trying to do something. [00:19:00] I will, I will agree with you. I think Trump is trying to do something. I really do. I do think there's a lot of pomp and circumstance, which I think he loves. He just loves that. He loves good TV too.
[00:19:11] Nicole: Like that's, that's his thing. But I'm also like, so how the hell is he gonna do this?
[00:19:16] Jolene: why do you think Russia invaded Crimea
[00:19:19] Nicole: Because they think it's their land.
[00:19:21] Jolene: I was of the understanding that, um, post Cold War,
[00:19:27] Jolene: that part of the, uh, the Cold War treaty was that, United States and, and Europe agreed that they would not let any more NATO nations border Russia.
[00:19:40] Jolene: So giving that NATO would not encroach eastward into Russian, you know, closer to Russian territories. And so when Ukraine want to, to have these securities, um, and, and have, um, be part of nato, Russia said, [00:20:00] no, no, no. This was part of the agreement. We weren't gonna do this. And so then they started to push back.
[00:20:06] Jolene: That was the narrative that I had heard, that this was, and this is kind of where I think, um, Trump even got some pushback too when he said that it was really zelensky that started this war. Remember when he said it wasn't Russia who started the war? It was really. It was Ukraine that started the war.
[00:20:23] Jolene: I mean, he said he made
[00:20:25] Nicole: Yes.
[00:20:26] Jolene: and people were like, no, that's not what happened. Well, it, it, there's a little, I think there's a little back and forth with that because I think if you took a look at it, it was them trying to get into nato. That was part of the agreement. They weren't going to.
[00:20:40] Jolene: But in actuality, two years before that, uh, Russia had in created, had had invaded Crimea. So really it was Russia who started, you know, who,
[00:20:51] Jolene: who really started that.
[00:20:53] Jolene: Okay.
[00:20:54] Nicole: Right. So, so we agree that Russia started it.
[00:20:57] Jolene: Yeah. Oh, um,
[00:20:59] Nicole: Well, I mean, I, I, [00:21:00] I mean, I understand what you're saying. You are saying that started in quotes that Ukraine doesn't, doesn't have the right because of the, the agreement post Cold War to, to become part of nato.
[00:21:17] Jolene: But,
[00:21:17] Jolene: but
[00:21:18] Jolene: Crimea was 10 years ago, so I mean, that
[00:21:20] Jolene: was, I mean, so you're going Okay, that, I mean, that doesn't, um, I think those were two different issues, right? I mean, you got the Crimea issue and then you've got the nato, you know, Ukraine wanting party to be part of, um, nato.
[00:21:34] Nicole: Nato. Correct.
[00:21:36] Nicole: I don't know, listener and viewer if you're feeling the way I'm feeling, but I am waiting for a big old shoe to drop. I'd like, and maybe it's like a big old like Russian flag, booted winged shoe to drop. I don't
[00:21:49] Nicole: know. what, what what is it about to drop?
[00:21:52] Jolene: Now we go to a commercial break. Stay tuned for now. Okay. Um, alright. No. So then, so I kind of thought that [00:22:00] there was this, you know, or we all have to be, um, proud of, of Ukraine. I think as an, as Americans, we are seeing this small country fighting for their lives and, and they had, you know, we all thought this, this war was gonna be over in three days and, um, Russia was just gonna annihilate 'em.
[00:22:18] Jolene: And they have stuck in there and they have given their all. And, and I think we have loved watching this as Americans going, man, they're, they're fighting their tails off to, to, um, keep from Putin to, to come in and, and take over.
[00:22:33] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:22:35] Jolene: I think then as these, these conversations , have taken place, I think there have.
[00:22:43] Jolene: Um, people who take a, a larger look at this and say, this has nothing to do with Ukraine. That that Russia and
[00:22:54] Nicole: What has nothing to do
[00:22:55] Jolene: United, the conversations that Putin and Trump are having
[00:22:59] Nicole: [00:23:00] Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
[00:23:01] Jolene: is, is much larger than Ukraine. That it's about the European Union and I think we believe that Europe is kind of feckless right now, but like, there's no, there's no government, there's no military in each of, you know, if you look at Germany, France, uh, Italy,
[00:23:25] Jolene: Militarily. There's nobody who's a, a strong who could go to, to battle like Ukraine. I mean, I don't, I don't know that you could have anybody in France, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands. I just don't think those are, that's just not in their DNAI I think they're all countries that are kind of like,
[00:23:47] Nicole: I mean, are you suggesting they don't have. the drive to do it, or that they actually just don't have the armies right now to
[00:23:54] Nicole: be able to fight
[00:23:56] Jolene: I think they're people. I think the European people are, are, [00:24:00] um, don't have the armies, don't have the will, the European Union I think has other things on its agenda and fighting is not one of 'em.
[00:24:08] Jolene: I, I think that there, it's all a very political, a very, um, money driven. their focus is elsewhere. It's not in, into fighting.
[00:24:19] Nicole: are you saying that that's the history of what's been happening versus now, or are you still think now?
[00:24:24] Nicole: That's what they're into? think now, no, I think now that is their demeanor. Right Now,
[00:24:29] Nicole: are you reading this? Are you just coming up with this?
[00:24:32] Jolene: I, I think I hear from pundits that are, you know, speaking about Europe as a nation, you know, as a, as a whole. And talking about what drives them and what's important to them. And I think that, doing what Ukraine is doing to Russia.
[00:24:51] Jolene: I don't think that rest of Europe could do it. I just, I just don't, I just don't think that they've got the sah to do it.
[00:24:57] Jolene: So I'm [00:25:00] wondering if this conversation between Putin and Trump, um,
[00:25:04] Nicole: Are we talking about the one in Alaska or what we think is ongoing.
[00:25:08] Jolene: Nope, uh, in Alaska that, that Trump was going into saying that he wanted, um, to have a ceasefire, came out, didn't get the ceasefire, but said it was really, really productive.
[00:25:20] Jolene: I feel like other things were talked about and other things would be, is power. I mean, I think it's all about power and money, and I think it's about, and it's about control, control, power and money. I mean, those three things combined, and I think Putin and Trump are the two most powerful in control in, in the world right now.
[00:25:42] Jolene: so I'm wondering if there were conversations about controlling, Ukraine because Ukraine and, and this, then I started to dive in. Why, why does anybody care about Ukraine? Because, let me, let me say this, When all [00:26:00] the European leaders came with Zelensky to, like, as you said, to back him up, to have his back, like, we got you buddy. was it because they see Putin and Trump as the two powerful entities and they didn't wanna be bullied. Europe doesn't wanna be bullied. Zelensky doesn't want to be bullied. they're worried about these two powerful, the two most powerful men in the world getting what they want.
[00:26:24] Jolene: And if you look at pipelines, if you look that pipelines that maybe would go from Russia to United States, uh, instead of going through Europe. And if you look at the resources that Russia has and America has, and if you look at taking Europe out of the picture, they would absolutely be devastated. I just think that there are so many other conversations that are having, that are about money and power and control that has nothing to do with Ukraine.
[00:26:52] Jolene: However, so then I'm like, why Ukraine? Like, why is this even a thing? And so I go back to, okay, the [00:27:00] NATO countries, you couldn't have, you, you, they didn't want the NATO expansion to movies towards, um, towards Russia. However, both Sweden and Finland have joined NATO since then, and Russia didn't give a crap.
[00:27:12] Jolene: Like they have both. Like they
[00:27:15] Nicole: But they weren't, but they weren't part of the Soviet Union originally,
[00:27:19] Jolene: No, but I'm saying if the, if the whole reason that that Putin is fighting against, um, Ukraine becoming a NATO nation was that there weren't, there wasn't supposed to be any more Eastern expansion of NATO countries towards Russia and they couldn't border Russia. Sweden and Finland, both are now part of NATO and Russia.
[00:27:39] Jolene: Didn't say anything and didn't fight it. Why is that?
[00:27:43] Nicole: Are you gonna answer that question?
[00:27:45] Jolene: Ukraine has the largest reserves of titanium, lithium, uranium in Europe. It has the largest reserve of rare earth minerals. Lithium. You need lithium for batteries for. There's enough [00:28:00] lithium in Ukraine for 20 million electric vehicles. There is, um, enough rare earth minerals for wind turbines, nuclear power lasers, superconductors, iron and steel industry.
[00:28:14] Jolene: Ukraine is one of the richest countries in Europe that has all the minerals. Their mineral endowment is worth $15 trillion and it holds 5% of the world's total mineral resources, despite only being 0.4% of the earth's surface. Think about that. Ukraine is this goldmine for all of these resources, and you've got Russia and America who are saying, we want Ukraine.
[00:28:52] Jolene: So I think,
[00:28:54] Jolene: yes,
[00:28:55] Nicole: a second? Where did you, where did you get that? No, no, no. Where did you get that information so that people know where you
[00:28:59] Jolene: [00:29:00] Oh, that was from, um, Britannica, um, the old Encyclopedia Britannica. Um, because I, I just, I googled, like, what's up, what's up with Ukraine? And so just started looking at uk, you know, what's the history? I mean, just started looking at Ukraine and then when I got to that part, I'm like, well, hell, that's exactly why we're doing this.
[00:29:20] Jolene: Like, Ukraine is so
[00:29:22] Nicole: But Trump had a, you know, made a deal with Zelensky
[00:29:27] Nicole: and or Right,
[00:29:29] Jolene: exactly. So go back to this conversation that Putin and, um, and
[00:29:37] Jolene: Trump had
[00:29:39] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:40] Jolene: and you're just going, what did they really talk about? Isn't it always about power control and money?
[00:29:47] Nicole: Yes. And yes. Yes. I mean, I don't think what you're saying is actually crazy at all. I think it makes total sense. I think there's a real thing though about, [00:30:00] about Ukraine had been part of the Soviet Union. Uh, two, I think there is ego and saving face and as, as simple as that. Like, you were part of us and I want you back and you don't get to be independent.
[00:30:16] Nicole: And I think there is, there is some reality to that piece too. Like, you are mine. You used to be mine and I'm taking you back and
[00:30:26] Jolene: But, but what, for what? I mean like, because he wants the people, he wants it for a tax base. Does he want it? You know what I mean? Like what? Uh, like
[00:30:34] Nicole: Well, I think, I don't, I don't
[00:30:35] Jolene: wants to protect his people,
[00:30:37] Nicole: know because I mean, he, he's kidnapped, like,
[00:30:40] Nicole: I'm gonna get this quote wrong, like 30,000 kids, Ukrainian kids. Oh my God. It's horrifying. It's horrifying. I wanna go back a second. 'cause I think I, I think you really are onto something, I can see why you're thinking the European Union, that it's about money, power, and [00:31:00] control. But I also do think that you never know what you, what what you're made of until you, until a something and you're faced with an obstacle. I'm gonna push back on what you said about, I don't think the Europeans have it in them to fight, because one thing that we have as Americans that we never really had to think about is that we are far away from all these powers.
[00:31:28] Nicole: You know, we did, you know, with World War II and Pearl Harbor, but otherwise we are pretty isolated from a lot of things. And so I can't imagine as a German or an Italian or Grecian or whomever, they're right there. Russia's right over there. And so I, I think that that, that there is some real. True fear of like the Europeans had been taken care of by us.
[00:31:56] Nicole: And then it was like, oh fuck, what do we do? [00:32:00] Like we have to think differently now because it is not a guarantee that United States is gonna defend us or it's gonna give us money, or is gonna give us soldiers if something happens to us. Right.
[00:32:12] Jolene: you think Europe has been thinking that way for how long? Like since a Cold War? Or you're saying Recently? Since Crimea.
[00:32:20] Jolene: Since I think, Europe, since the, since World War II, has not had to think about it very much. They have, of course, an army. They haven't armed forces, but they haven't had to think, because the United States has taken care of a lot, is always ready to swoop in and, and. Has has had a history of swooping in and fighting for other nations for, for the
[00:32:48] Jolene: Well, and
[00:32:49] Jolene: and we have bases there, right? We
[00:32:51] Jolene: have bases in Italy and Germany and, yeah.
[00:32:53] Nicole: exactly. And Trump has come in and said, Hey, this isn't fair. And you need to pay for [00:33:00] things and you need to use your own soldiers. And so I think in some ways, honestly, and maybe I'm naive, I really don't know a lot about this. So viewer and listener, please be patient with me. I'm just trying to, to listen to my friend and have this conversation that I'd imagine that this is brand new thinking, oh, we have to build up our army more.
[00:33:23] Nicole: We can't rely on, there is no, there are no guarantees anymore. Trump has made it clear, there are no guarantees. He has taken the Apple cartt and sort of thrown it up in the air. And so I do think that these European leaders, there is a fear of. Oh my God. We have to, take care of ourselves, protect ourselves, you know?
[00:33:45] Nicole: And so I think, I think that is real. I am not saying that I don't think you're, you're onto something about how rich the Ukrainian land is, the actual land and who wants it. where I think it's [00:34:00] tricky is that I don't think Americans, I think, I think I could be, I think that, that, that this is something we come together.
[00:34:10] Nicole: Don't think Americans trust Putin, whether you're a liberal or Democrat, I mean, sorry, whether you're Republican or Democrat. Right? And so I think if, if Trump like made some deal with Putin, I don't think we'd believe it. We'd push, we'd all push back and be like, come on dude. Like this is, you can't trust this guy.
[00:34:32] Nicole: you know, even with my experience with going to Germany and Berlin, and it's such a loaded history where they purposely weakened their military for years 'cause of what had happened to them in, with Nazi Germany and it was loaded.
[00:34:49] Nicole: And so, uh, them building their forces back up, I think is a new concept for all of these countries to be like, the [00:35:00] United States is not gonna save us,
[00:35:01] Jolene: Like are you saying that it's new Since like Nazi Germany,
[00:35:06] Nicole: I think there might have been rumblings in Trump first term, but I think it's very new. I think it's Trump second term this year where Trump is saying has like, upended the apple cart and it was like, Hey,
[00:35:23] Jolene: okay. Wait, so are you talking about when he's asked for, for the NATO countries that they're supposed to give 3% of their GDP to contribute to the nato, um, alliance and, and they weren't doing that,
[00:35:40] Nicole: yes, yes,
[00:35:40] Jolene: talking about that, right? So I, I mean, and, but you think that's a good move, right?
[00:35:46] Jolene: Like everybody should be paying their fair share of nato. If you're a member of nato, why aren't you paying?
[00:35:53] Nicole: I, I mean, I don't, maybe this is not very liberal of me. I have no idea. But it, it makes sense that you need to [00:36:00] pay your fair,
[00:36:00] Nicole: share it. You know, I think it's, it's very different, when the Europeans have to think about defending themselves and defending Ukraine and giving money to the cause, and then giving soldiers, like, giving lives.
[00:36:21] Nicole: it's a huge ask, and a lot of times in the last 50 years, they haven't been confronted with this.
[00:36:31] Jolene: yeah, yeah.
[00:36:33] Jolene: I, I think we're kind of saying the same thing though. I, I think you are saying that they're not militarily able to help themselves or have not been forced to, um, to think about having to defend themselves. I just don't think, and, and maybe that's what I was trying to say earlier too. I just don't think Europe is like about having military, you know, building up their military to show strength and resilience and, and, [00:37:00] um,
[00:37:00] Nicole: that's not fair because part of it too, Jolene, is like, we as Americans really don't get a lot of world news. I think the British would take offense that we say they're not ready to fight. Like I think that pe there are armies that are
[00:37:16] Jolene: I, yeah,
[00:37:16] Nicole: out, like ready and capable and, I don't think they, I just don't think they've had to defend so much.
[00:37:22] Nicole: They haven't been in that position, a lot of them. and yet I feel like Trump is actually really pushing them to.
[00:37:31] Jolene: Defend themselves. They're in Europe, and like you said, if Russia is, is literally right over there, like shouldn't they have always been like on guard?
[00:37:41] Jolene: but I think that's just a different mentality that we have Americans have. We are very proud of our military and, um,
[00:37:48] Nicole: but I think they are too. I think there was an agreement, like what I was trying to say a bazillion years ago at this point, that after World War II, Europe was demolished. So they had nothing and, [00:38:00] and America was like, it's okay. I'm, these are my words. Take a deep breath. Just get on your feet.
[00:38:09] Nicole: Rebuild. We got you. And so that's what they did. And they had their armies, but it wasn't the forefront of, it was just like, we've been completely wiped out by two world wars, you know, all of Europe.
[00:38:25] Jolene: so were we.
[00:38:27] Nicole: Not our land.
[00:38:29] Jolene: No,
[00:38:29] Jolene: but
[00:38:30] Nicole: America, but I'm talking about like the actual geography, the amount of people that died.
[00:38:36] Nicole: Uh, there was no economy. Like it was just a total disaster. and they needed kind of to take a big breath and rebuild and America said, okay, you know, and some Americans don't like that we've in, have got stuck our nose into every single conflict. you
[00:38:57] Jolene: Do you think that Trump is anti-war?
[00:38:59] Nicole: [00:39:00] I don't know. Do you,
[00:39:01] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:02] Nicole: you do.
[00:39:03] Jolene: Oh, yeah. I, I mean, he's resolved a lot of conflicts.
[00:39:07] Nicole: What is he resolved?
[00:39:09] Nicole: did say on Fox the other day that he was surprised this has taken so long
[00:39:14] Nicole: that he didn't, he didn't anticipate this, Right. He thought it was
[00:39:17] Jolene: gonna be done in 24. I'll get in there and get it
[00:39:20] Nicole: right. Yeah. And that he is as surprised as anyone.
[00:39:24] Nicole: What are we in agreement about? I'm assuming you would like this war to end,
[00:39:27] Jolene: oh, absolutely. I think
[00:39:29] Jolene: there
[00:39:29] Jolene: are,
[00:39:29] Nicole: like this war to end.
[00:39:31] Jolene: I don't know that anybody wants to see this war go on. I
[00:39:35] Jolene: mean, just
[00:39:35] Jolene: like,
[00:39:36] Nicole: and are we in agreement that we don't, we don't trust Putin.
[00:39:40] Jolene: Yep. I would agree
[00:39:41] Nicole: Okay. And, and are we in agreement that we do trust Zelensky.
[00:39:48] Jolene: Hmm. Uh, I don't know that I trust him.
[00:39:54] Nicole: Okay. Do you want him to be left alone?
[00:39:59] Jolene: [00:40:00] yes. I would like that word to be over and I would like them to. Um,
[00:40:04] Nicole: I would like the kids to be brought back.
[00:40:06] Jolene: oh my gosh, yes. I mean, obviously
[00:40:08] Nicole: so so we're we're agreeing. We're agreeing on
[00:40:12] Nicole: quite
[00:40:12] Jolene: I don't know. Well, but I think the problem is, are they going to, will Ukraine have to seed some of their
[00:40:20] Nicole: Yeah. Which they don't want to. Of course. That's like a non, and then if, I mean, how does it ever end if Putin is saying that he insists on being part of a security
[00:40:31] Jolene: so I, I think there's gonna, there somebody's gonna have to give here. And so a again, I'm gonna go back to the whole where I think this whole thing is About Yeah. and
[00:40:42] Jolene: I think Ukraine could hold all the power because they have something that everyone wants. And I think Trump knows that, and I think Putin knows that.
[00:40:52] Jolene: So I think the negotiating at this point is. How much can America get of [00:41:00] Ukrainian's assets? How much can, and I'm sure Putin is thinking the same thing. And, and then you've got the whole European Union going, wait a second, what about us? and then so that, I think that goes to a broader conversation of, what other negotiations can happen between Russia and America, of which we've just said we don't trust Putin.
[00:41:20] Nicole: Here's the thing that makes, doesn't make sense to me. Like, then wouldn't Trump and the European Union get together and create a deal so that it, it, benefited all of those countries to shut out Putin. why wouldn't they do that? But he's seems to have such a crush on Putin
[00:41:38] Jolene: I don't think he has a crush on Putin. I think
[00:41:40] Jolene: he sees Putin as another leader of the world, the most, as powerful as he is, or if not a little less Trump would. I'm sure Trump would argue with that.
[00:41:54] Jolene: Trump is the MAs, master negotiator and he, whether he's negotiating [00:42:00] with people that he trusts or doesn't trust, he is, he's absolutely bringing them to the table and getting what is best for America.
[00:42:08] Nicole: But we don't know what they're talk, but we don't know what they're talking about. do you think this is gonna end?
[00:42:12] Jolene: the way that I think this is going to end is that America will win. whether that looks like Ukraine giving, you know, us getting more minerals from, from Ukrainians, dunno if that means, um, he's brokering deals for, to help with the steel industry.
[00:42:30] Jolene: I mean, all of the things that he does and whether it's, you know, the tariffs that we're talking about or the, you know, agreements that he's making it's all to benefit America. And I think that's the one thing that we're not focusing enough on. Um, because I think there's such a, a hatred and a distrust of Trump that if it is benefiting America, those who do not like Trump choose not to look at it as a win for America.
[00:42:58] Jolene: And I think that, um, [00:43:00] so I, I think that's where it, it's, it's a tough situation.
[00:43:05] Nicole: I would absolutely congratulate Trump if this war ends. Like I, and I don't like him, but I would admire that he's trying, I do admire that he's trying. I don't want any more people to die. I don't, I want those kids that have been kidnapped, Ukrainian children from their families to be brought back this isn't a, even a Trump thing.
[00:43:28] Nicole: Like how does this work? Putin needs to be shut down. That's my belief. and I don't want American soldiers to be sacrificed either, so that's a little tricky. But how do we do it without that? How do
[00:43:44] Jolene: Oh, I, I, don't think American soldiers are involved. I mean, I don't think that's ever been
[00:43:48] Jolene: part of the
[00:43:49] Nicole: No, they're not. They're not. And that's, and that's not. And he said absolutely not to that. what's been interesting is that America and the Europeans have given the [00:44:00] Ukrainians just enough to stay in the game, but not enough to win. Why?
[00:44:08] Nicole: That's, that's my question. Right. And I think, and I think that you and I are asking like, okay, so why let's end this.
[00:44:20] Jolene: I, I think at this point, what is, Ukraine willing to, to give up. And what is Russia willing to give up? I mean, that's, that's the point that we're at. And I think Trump thought he could get 'em both to the table and have this negotiations. But now I think that Trump sees an opportunity for it to, to encompass a, a bigger deal.
[00:44:40] Jolene: And he is trying to, to get America the best deal possible, even though America's not even involved with this. This is, this should be, this should be Europe, taking care of their neighbor so that, so that Russia doesn't continue to invade the rest of Europe and take over, you know, then Poland's next, and
[00:44:59] Nicole: Sure, [00:45:00] sure, sure. But it's, I think it's in America's interest to shut down Putin from, you know, the
[00:45:04] Nicole: beginning of time, you know, Russia and America have not been Pals.
[00:45:10] Jolene: and so now you've got, at least Trump has gotten Putin to the table. E enough to have a conversation. We don't know what that conversation was, I truly believe that Trump will do what's in America's best interest and get something out of this for us.
[00:45:24] Nicole: Well, you know what, Jolene? I hope so. As a liberal, I'm not going, I hope he doesn't. I would imagine my liberal brothers and sisters out there also want this to end. we are in a culture right now that we won't, we won't give any wins to anyone that's on the other side.
[00:45:44] Nicole: we've talked about this before. I'm totally exhausted and so are you. Um, that's exactly why you and I are here and. You know, are sharing our friendship and our, journey together because we don't want our [00:46:00] country to be in this divided time. I think it's fair of me to say that, I mean, we're just not in this position right now, but if there was a Democrat doing some good things that I hope that you would be like, yep, they're
[00:46:15] Jolene: Absolutely. If America wins, absolutely. And we should be, we should embrace that and,
[00:46:21] Nicole: And we'd, and we, and we've lost that. We did. There was a time that we did, I mean obviously we'd have arguments, but there was a time when the beginning, the middle of the end of the day, we were like, we are American. We are brothers and sisters, and we are in this country together and. Yes.
[00:46:38] Nicole: We don't necessarily think alike, but I will. I see you. I hear you. And I will defend you. And you will defend me, and we're not there now.
[00:46:48] Jolene: Which it sounds like the thing that you just said was, was what Bush said on that rubble pile after nine 11, you know? And he said, when he said, we hear you. We see you, and the whole [00:47:00] world is about to hear from us. And that was when everybody kind of rallied around. We were all proud to be Americans at that point because we were all, we were all sad and we were all
[00:47:10] Nicole: Yeah. It was so, it was so awful. And even there was even a moment that I, I feel like it was a millisecond at this point, but the world was sad for us.
[00:47:23] Nicole: Like it was a devastating day and time. And,
[00:47:27] Jolene: I think that the takeaway from this conversation that we've had today, um, I hope, is that, number one, we, I think we get, um, fixated on the shiny object and what we think that they're talking about. And by there I mean the media, I mean the political pundits, I mean, you know who, whomever, the politicians.
[00:47:52] Jolene: but the real thing is so much, it, it's not even what we are focusing on. And, and we focus on the things that [00:48:00] divide us instead of focusing on the bigger picture and things that could actually bring us together. And, I hope that these conversations, um, meaning Trump and Putin and Zelensky and the European Union, I hope that America is the winner out of all this.
[00:48:17] Jolene: because I, I think then we're all, we're all happy.
[00:48:20] Nicole: Let me say this. the winner loser thing I struggle with too because, you know, hundreds of thousands of people have died. just so much world suffering and I know you don't want it either. That is not a liberal thing or a,
[00:48:37] Nicole: or a conservative thing, and I don't think there's been any winners here.
[00:48:41] Nicole: And I, and I don't think. Even if America gets a great deal, I don't believe there are winners here. We need to stop this. and I do believe, and I do, and I think we need to stop Putin. I don't trust him. I
[00:48:56] Nicole: do not trust him. So I think we [00:49:00] can actually start there really as Americans. And and I don't know, maybe this is a crazy thing for a liberal to say, I think Trump does get off on making deals, but maybe he's seeing people's humanity. Maybe
[00:49:13] Jolene: All right.
[00:49:14] Nicole: seeing and the fact that he's even giving Trump or Putin a chance who is a war criminal.
[00:49:21] Nicole: but if we don't talk to each other, then what? Then what? That's what this podcast is.
[00:49:27] Nicole: I mean, you're not Putin, and I'm not zelensky, but it's like we've gotta talk to each other. What do we do? Just kill each other.
[00:49:33] Jolene: Right. Yep. So thank goodness he's gotten everybody, at least to the table, to have a conversation.
[00:49:45] Nicole: Would you rather be in the history books for something terrible or be completely forgotten after you die?
[00:49:58] Jolene: Oh, completely forgotten. [00:50:00] Yeah. I don't wanna be known for something horrible. Forever and ever.
[00:50:04] Nicole: but no one would remember you, your daughters,
[00:50:07] Nicole: your grandchildren.
[00:50:10] Jolene: Well, hopefully I left something within them that sticks with them.
[00:50:15] Nicole: I like that. I know. It's like that. It was like that. Yeah. It's a good one, right? It's like that. Would you rather I give you months ago about like, would you rather take credit for something you didn't do?
[00:50:27] Jolene: Right.
[00:50:29] Nicole: Yes, please. So dumb.
[00:50:33] Jolene: Okay. Would you rather watch a concert at an outdoor amphitheater or at a really nice, um, elegant indoor facility?
[00:50:52] Nicole: Always outdoor. I love an outdoor concert. I love it, love it, love it. It's my favorite
[00:50:57] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:50:57] Nicole: to like be in the [00:51:00] music and with the nature, and it's the best. It
[00:51:05] Nicole: really is. It's one of those moments that you're like, you believe in humans when, when that
[00:51:10] Jolene: I agree.
[00:51:11] Nicole: The arts, man. I'm pro art. It's, and, and, and it's been since the beginning of time, everyone, every society has had music and brings you together and, and you do forget that you're not supposed to like each other
[00:51:26] Jolene: Right, Right,
[00:51:28] Nicole: So let's, let's go see more music.
[00:51:30] Jolene: Oh, come, come out here and
[00:51:31] Nicole: yeah. Yes. And let's support those artists, man.
[00:51:35] Jolene: Yes, I
[00:51:36] Nicole: Yeah. Not, not the resellers, the artists themselves, kind of
[00:51:42] Jolene: Wait, who are the re Oh, it's like the
[00:51:44] Nicole: Oh, yes. cause concerts are so expensive and the musicians don't see the money.
[00:51:51] Jolene: we've got to do, there's
[00:51:52] Nicole: We've gotta stop, right, Listen. I don't feel old, so I don't like saying, oh, I'm old. But you used to be able [00:52:00] to afford concerts. You used to be able to go all the time. And now you're like, why is that so expensive? Or Broadway shows too.
[00:52:07] Jolene: Right.
[00:52:08] Nicole: Tangent. Tangent. But music is important. Super important.
[00:52:13] Nicole: all right, doll face.
[00:52:15] Nicole: Uh, thank you. and I like that you wore white because that like, it's time to surrender. It's time for peace.
[00:52:22] Jolene: Oh, I
[00:52:23] Jolene: love that.
[00:52:24] Jolene: obviously we dove into this subject and we didn't have a lot of information prior to this. Let us know if you learned anything. Please let us know if we've helped you, if we've, if we've harmed you, if we've, um, we would like, honestly would like to know what your, what your opinion is,
[00:52:41] Nicole: Yes. And if you, and, and if you have any ideas yourself about what you're thinking about this conflict and what's going on, maybe behind closed doors. cause we truly don't know.
[00:52:52] Nicole: do us a solid and press the thumbs up button on YouTube and like, and subscribe, um, on Apple and Spotify.
[00:52:59] Nicole: And [00:53:00] we really, really appreciate you going on this ride with us. It is, it is not easy. I know that I frustrate you conservatives and I know that Jolene frustrates my liberals and we're still here to talk about it and laugh and figure this thing out together, right
[00:53:18] Jolene: Amen, sister.
[00:53:19] Nicole: All right, girl.
[00:53:21] Jolene: Bye
[00:53:21] Nicole: you. Bye.
