What it’s really like being a woman in 2025
What does it mean to be a woman in 2025?
We talked to women across generations - from 20-somethings navigating career ambitions to 80-year-olds who've watched the Republican party evolve around them. The answers surprised us. Despite decades of progress, some battles feel eerily familiar. We were given the task of interviewing some of the women in our social circles, to get their take on what it means to be a woman, and how they feel things have changed over time.
I (Nicole) interviewed friends who've climbed corporate ladders while dealing with dress codes that still treat women like decoration rather than decision-makers.
Jolene's conversations revealed a different tension: maintaining Christian and Republican values while navigating modern feminism. The assumption that Republican women can't be feminists sparked passionate responses from her circle. Turns out, political identity and gender advocacy don't fit into neat boxes.
Women in 2025 are still performing the ultimate balancing act. We have career ambitions, personal goals, family expectations, and societal pressure to do it all flawlessly. Nicole's sister-in-law battles glass ceilings in finance while Jolene's young daughter faces expectations about family values that her male peers never encounter.
The progress is real but incomplete. We can run companies and countries, but we're still explaining why we deserve equal pay. We can choose our paths, but we're still judged more harshly for those choices than men making identical decisions.
Here's what's fascinating: younger women like Jolene's daughter Callie see current challenges as opportunities for change. They view the return to family values and support for entrepreneurs as positive shifts that could benefit everyone. They're optimistic about redefining success on their own terms.
Older generations, like Jolene's mom, carry more skepticism. She has seen promises of progress before, watched movements stall, and learned that change often comes slower than hope suggests. Both perspectives are valid and necessary.
Some things haven't budged much. Women still carry the mental load of family logistics. We still get interrupted more in meetings. We still face the impossible choice between being liked or respected. We still get asked how we "balance it all" while men get asked about their achievements.
The dress code battles might seem trivial, but they're symptoms of deeper issues about who gets to set the rules and who has to follow them. When women's professional credibility still depends on navigating appearance standards that don't apply to men, we're not as far along as we'd like to think.
What struck us most was how women's stories reveal both individual resilience and systemic problems. Every woman who breaks barriers makes it easier for others, but she also highlights how many barriers still exist.
The pioneering women who came before us gave us freedoms we sometimes take for granted. The women coming after us will inherit both our progress and our unfinished business.
Being a woman in 2025 means embracing the complexity. We are celebrating how far we've come while acknowledging how far we have to go. It means recognizing that women's experiences vary dramatically based on race, class, geography, and politics, but certain challenges transcend those differences.
We're not looking for simple answers because the questions aren't simple. We're looking for honest conversations that acknowledge both progress and problems, both individual achievements and systemic challenges.
resources mentioned:
Socialist Video: https://youtu.be/QkO63lMyAhE?si=mUYEF4G0n6z_mTiK
LINKS:
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[00:00:00] Nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years.
[00:00:05] Nicole: Everyone says you shouldn't talk about politics, religion, or money, and we say, that's exactly what French should be talking about. Hello, Jolene.
[00:00:13] Jolene: Hello, Nicole.
[00:00:15] Nicole: So we're gonna do a couple things before we do our topic about women and what's it like to be a woman and your experiences and all of that. we got an email I love your show. But I just listened to the Mamdani episode and for the first time I was appalled to hear Jolene say she has now jumped on the Trump train because of how much he as in Trump has accomplished. As far as the big bill, which Jolene said is not a bill, but the law
[00:00:47] Nicole: what about all the laws that Trump is breaking against our Constitution? And yes, the border crossings are zero because no one wants to come to this country right now. And I would like to [00:01:00] remind all the immigrant haters to look at your own ancestry and see how many generations ago your families were welcomed to this country.
[00:01:08] Nicole: None of us are from here except American Indians. And it took Trump a week to go visit the Texas floods. I don't want to be confrontational because I believe and practice putting differences aside, but occasionally I get shocked.
[00:01:25] Jolene: whether you're criticizing something that we've said or you don't agree with it, or you're trying to clarify something, we want to hear that feedback. Because number one, it, it lets us hear that people are interested in what we're saying.
[00:01:37] Jolene: so let me address a couple of things as far as being an immigrant hater. I think that America is the greatest nation in the world, and that's why so many people wanna come here. And I don't hate the immigrants. I don't like when people come here illegally and, and it's really messing up the system for those who are doing it legally. So, I really wanna clarify, [00:02:00] and I think that's something that, that republicans, um, get a lot of hate for, is that, you know, we want all the immigrants outta here. We just us and we want a border and keep everybody in and we don't want anybody else to, to come in. And that's simply not the case.
[00:02:15] Jolene: We want the immigration system to work and it's broken, and I think we both agree. Correct me if I'm wrong, Nicole. We both agree that the system needs to be fixed.
[00:02:27] Nicole: Yes, we've talked about it. We talked about in our last episode whether about, you know, everything being politicized. We talked about it in the immigration episode. We talk about this a lot.
[00:02:38] Jolene: It's not that we're immigrant, uh, haters and I, by we, I, I mean Republicans, We need immigrants. We need them to do it the right way. but it's the bad actors. , It's the ones who have committed crimes, the ones who have criminal records, that were bad actors in their home countries and now they've come to ours. No, we don't [00:03:00] need 'em, we don't need 'em on the streets. We don't need 'em here.
[00:03:02] Jolene: We don't need 'em starting gangs here. I applaud President Trump for putting a stop to the border crossing so our judicial system can get their heads above water to process the immigrant population. as far as the president visiting Texas, um, and those horrible floods, no matter who the president is, I don't care if it's a Republican Democrat. I get when your senators or your governor goes and, and looks at the ravaged areas, I absolutely support that.
[00:03:29] Jolene: But when you've got a president who does it, it's a media show at that point. There is nothing like President Trump had already declared, Texas and, and central Texas and the Hill Country, a disaster area which initiated the funds, you know, federal funds to, and, and all the resources that, that, that provides.
[00:03:49] Jolene: but when you take a look at, when a president visits anytime, anywhere, and, but especially in an area that has been hit by floods or fire tornadoes or [00:04:00] whatever. This huge entourage is going to disrupt the, the people that are still trying to do the work. And in Texas, they're still on a recovery mission for, for people that are missing.
[00:04:12] Jolene: So the fact that a president comes in with all the media, with all the security, with, you know, all of his, the people that come with him, I think it disrupts the operations. So I do not criticize whether it was Biden in North Carolina, um, with their floods or, or Trump with this, I just, I stay out. I mean, just have the president stay out.
[00:04:35] Jolene: You've already done your part. Now it's just a, it's just a show.
[00:04:39] Nicole: I thought that was an interesting take in that when I read your response to her, that. Made sense to me actually. I never thought of it that way. when there are disasters, we collectively can feel very scared and very, um, hopeless or out of control. And I think [00:05:00] we will then look to our leaders to, to comfort us.
[00:05:04] Nicole: there's been so much precedent that then the president goes and does this and he does it immediately. And I think that you could have a point about that. You know, give the money, give the help, but get out of the way. 'cause there is a spectacle. It do, it is disruptive.
[00:05:24] Nicole: So I never thought of it that way and I appreciate that you shared that. and thank you for writing and again, telling us, what's resonating for you and what, what's your, what's you're challenged by because, you know, for what it's worth, Jolene and I, every time we do this, we're so excited to see each other and to be with our friend.
[00:05:47] Nicole: And it's also really hard. know, whether there's a lot of preparation or not a lot of preparation, and we're trying to communicate with each other and, and [00:06:00] honor each other's experience. And we live in this time where everyone, as, as we've said in many episodes, it's a, it's a gotcha culture.
[00:06:10] Nicole: And so we, even though we don't, in our own friendship, that is always in your head to try and. Not to be that way here, like it's a conscious thing. So on that note, I wanna share another cool thing this was on YouTube But last week with our mom Donny episode, we got a lot of comments. people are very charged up. It doesn't matter if you're right or left or independent, it doesn't matter. This guy and this movement has stirred up the pot and people have, um, excitement and fear and all the things. So this man had written us and he wrote a very long, Reaction to our episode don't [00:07:00] we have Google? How do you not know what socialism is? And he was, had a lot of facts, but he was also very angry. And, I will say, I didn't write this down, but my back got up when I first read it. I, because I thought to myself, seriously, we're trying to do this thing.
[00:07:18] Nicole: so he wrote this long thing and then he shared this video on the history of socialism and he said, please look at it. Well, somehow my alerts aren't great on YouTube, so I have to constantly check and see who's commenting and whatever. so I wrote this very calm, like, thank you for checking out our podcast and sharing our views.
[00:07:38] Nicole: We're trying to create a community where people can share their ideas, take care. And that was it. Didn't think anything about it. End of story, yesterday. So it was five days later. I see that, oh my gosh, he wrote me back and he says, Thanks for the response, and my [00:08:00] apologies for the exasperated tone. Please, please, please just watch the first video I posted.
[00:08:06] Nicole: You'll have a much better understanding of both Mamdani and the growing socialist movement in this country that has always been here and gave us the eight hour workday, the weekend, ended child labor amongst many other benefits we enjoy today. And all of a sudden I wrote, I said, oh, there's no need to apologize.
[00:08:25] Nicole: We're in this deeply divided country. And he was like, yes, I need to apologize.
[00:08:30] Jolene: Oh geez.
[00:08:31] Nicole: But it was so lovely. He was like, Of course there is a need to apologize. We have to be patient with each other for exactly the reason You point out I wasn't in that moment and apologizing is a reminder to myself to be the person I want to be.
[00:08:47] Nicole: Just as much as it is an attempt to repair the minor harm you have already forgiven.
[00:08:53] Jolene: Oh my gosh. How
[00:08:54] Nicole: It was so, I know. And so it went on and on and I was like, like [00:09:00] apology accepted. And I watched his video and it was great. It's this, it's a 17 minute video that I will put in the show notes. It's just about the history of socialism and all the origins and all the things that are great in our society that we've gotten from this.
[00:09:17] Nicole: I was so excited 'cause I was like, this is exactly what Jolene and I are trying to do. Like we are trying to create this community, you know. It's okay to tell us we don't like, we don't know. We don't know. We're trying. And if you wanna share something, great, we're really willing to listen.
[00:09:38] Nicole: And, but it's also like this person was, in a moment, we had definitely stirred something in him and he was very upset and he wanted to tell us, these are the things that I know. And he, and he did say, I didn't notice, but he did say, wake the fuck up. He was mad. He was mad. [00:10:00] And I guess when I, or we responded like, I, we see you and thank you.
[00:10:10] Nicole: It was like, like, oh my God. Okay, wait. There's a human on the other side and how do we talk to each other?
[00:10:18] Nicole: So thank you for, uh, your candor and your patience and your kindness. 'cause I think that's what, that's what we're hoping is going to grow out of this community.
[00:10:31] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:33] Jolene: And, and very well said. But I also think too that, , it's just people's knee jerk reaction to immediately pounce
[00:10:42] Jolene: and immediately, be triggered. And I think that's something that we're trying to foster in each other is, okay, let's listen to the other person and go, huh, huh I didn't know that that, that, that kind of makes sense to me instead of, but I [00:11:00] think so many people look at the snippets and not really our entire episode and they react to that snippet instead of truly listening to
[00:11:08] Jolene: us, they're reacting.
[00:11:09] Nicole: I mean, even the activist snippet is, it's there to instigate. It's not just us. Like that's how, that's how social media works to instigate for you to react to either delve deeper or lose your mind, whatever, like
[00:11:28] Jolene: And you know, that's something else that I've, that I've realized, especially when. Really in the last couple of weeks, like I heard from my buddy Mike, who, I get to talk to maybe once in a year when I see him, when I go back home, he called me like, who calls anymore? Right? I mean, usually it's a text or something or an email.
[00:11:48] Jolene: Mike calls me and he goes, I'm so fired up after listening to your episode, a couple of coffee. And he goes, I just, I just wanted to let you know I'm behind you and I think this is great, and la la la [00:12:00] And then when Jeff's family, both of his, his brother and his sister are both conservative and they came in with like guns a blazing going, okay, loved when you said this.
[00:12:11] Jolene: , I got so mad at Nicole when she said this, but you know, I know that you like Nicole and I'm, I'm learning to like her too. And then we were with Susie this last weekend and then Susie's going, okay, she truly is a lovely person. And they're like, okay, yeah. Like, yes, I think she is too. And I mean, it's, it's so funny because I feel like the, I feel like conservative.
[00:12:29] Jolene: Don't comment as much as the, as liberals maybe do.
[00:12:36] Nicole: I, I wondered that too. 'cause I,
[00:12:37] Jolene: of our comments are from, from
[00:12:41] Nicole: from liberals, I would, I, I mean, people don't say it, but, I mean, some comments, you can't really tell what is happening and sometimes you actually, there's a, there's several times that I'm like, I don't think this is a human being.
[00:12:53] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:12:54] Nicole: Which is real, which is really chilling and totally strange.
[00:12:57] Nicole: The fact that we're even in this world where you're, you [00:13:00] have to even wonder that. Uh, but I was thinking that today about, I wonder what our listenership is and viewership like is it more conservative or liberal? It feels more liberal. But I'm thrilled to hear that the conservatives might not just be saying anything.
[00:13:16] Nicole: Um, and I, and I wish you guys would like speak out or write us. Write us.
[00:13:23] Jolene: friends out here? Come on, let us know that you're there.
[00:13:26] Nicole: Yeah, exactly.
[00:13:27] Jolene: Oh, in fact, and then it was even like, yeah, I got another call from someone else. So yes. It's, it's all of like, okay, go ahead and comment. It's all
[00:13:35] Nicole: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:36] Jolene: conservative.
[00:13:37] Nicole: No, please don't. 'cause uh, we're gonna be kind to you. That's just like, that's the deal. And it's not revolutionary, but it seems to be quite revolutionary these days. It really does. So
[00:13:52] Jolene: morphs really well into our topic
[00:13:54] Nicole: wa I was just gonna say that. Would you like to introduce the topic?
[00:13:58] Jolene: Oh, I would,
[00:13:59] Jolene: [00:14:00] We have been tasked with interviewing, um, women of our respective parties and to. Kind of pepper them with questions about what it feels like to be a woman in the Democratic party or a woman in the Republican party. And, um, you know, what that means to you.
[00:14:19] Jolene: And what I found, because I interviewed two 20-year-old, or 20 somethings, a 50 something and an 80 something. So then it was kind of like, where, where has this, so for my 80-year-old mother, like where has the Republican party, you know, what's the, the transformation that you've seen and you know, what is it today versus what it was when you were raising a family.
[00:14:45] Jolene: And so it was really fun to kind of get different perspectives and the different age, uh, different ages and what their perspectives are today. And you.
[00:14:55] Nicole: Well, it's funny, Jolene, 'cause I was like, I didn't approach it [00:15:00] from a Democrat or Republican lens. I just approached it from being a woman
[00:15:05] Jolene: woman. Okay?
[00:15:06] Nicole: and, I got a smattering of, of friends, uh, women in their fifties, women in their thirties. Uh, my niece that's 18 and 16. Uh, my sister-in-law, my well, but a lot of, I guess I didn't, I didn't get any people that were older.
[00:15:28] Nicole: I'm realizing. but when we, all these things were coming up every day and we kept having to push this episode, which I found ironic. I'm like, really? We're gonna push the women aside that that was, we're pushing them again. We're pushing them again. And so, um, but in a way, I, I had a similar experience where it was such a gift to be able to do this episode or to prepare for this episode, to talk to my friends and my sister-in-law and my [00:16:00] nieces in a way.
[00:16:00] Nicole: You ask questions that you don't normally ask them. And, and some of the reactions were, I mean, they were all so layered and so interesting. yeah, so I'm really excited to talk about it. I found some super interesting, things that came up.
[00:16:18] Nicole: I had a couple women, uh, who were in the business space, One of my friends, she was, has always been in the oil and gas business, and she is our age, and she was sort of a pioneer and sort of went up through the ranks and she had experiences and I always saw like, she's a powerhouse, but she's this lovely, bubbly human.
[00:16:43] Nicole: she was telling me stories that she worked for companies that she was still in this day and age expected to wear skirts. she would walk into a room and people would think she was a secretary, even though she was the director. She, uh, was telling [00:17:00] me that, because maybe because it was oil and gas that she was expected to take her clients to strip clubs. Yeah. Which I was like, what? And she was like, and I didn't, and I, and people were furious that I would not please my clients.
[00:17:15] Jolene: Oh my gosh.
[00:17:16] Nicole: was like, whoa. that was one aspect. I have a friend who's a doctor residency at Stanford, like major, major, and she'd be in the operating room and people would comment about her body and she was just supposed to laugh it off while she was doing surgery.
[00:17:33] Nicole: Uh, she also has, a child that is transitioning. And so it was very painful for her to have this conversation,
[00:17:43] Jolene: Hmm
[00:17:44] Nicole: which I didn't anticipate that coming up. Um, because it was like, it was so layered in what is choice, what is who you are, what does this mean? I've like, what do you mean asking me what it's like to be a woman?
[00:17:59] Nicole: Like, it was a [00:18:00] very fraught experience to even have that conversation for her,
[00:18:05] Jolene: transitioning from, okay.
[00:18:07] Nicole: from girl to a. And then I,
[00:18:12] Jolene: is the
[00:18:13] Nicole: the person, uh, she is 18,
[00:18:16] Jolene: Okay.
[00:18:17] Nicole: she's quite young. then I had another friend who's a teacher she was explaining that unified school districts pay more and went, and when they are unified, that means that there's a high school attached to it.
[00:18:31] Nicole: And that, in high school there's men, teachers, more men teachers than women,
[00:18:36] Nicole: which I found fascinating as well. I interviewed a woman who, uh, left the Mormon church and how, which is its own thing and how she was brought up that she was supposed to be very attractive to men, but not too attractive and was supposed to absolutely believe and do whatever the man said [00:19:00] In this day and age, in 20.
[00:19:02] Nicole: I guess she, she left the church in 2019, so the, you know, a modern experience. and then my sister-in-law she's in the corporate world and she was saying when she was coming up and she was a, a powerhouse as well, and you know, she had to be. The cutest, the smartest, all the things. And that there was this, um, this golf field trip and she was part of the finance committee and she oversaw, or she saw this guy putting this list together for the golf tournament, and it was all the men and none of the women.
[00:19:40] Nicole: And she, I was like, what'd you do? And she's like, she thought, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. I like, she had this experience of like, this happens. I didn't know this happens. Like why are they thinking this? And I said, well, what'd you do? And she's like, I caused a stink. We went to that golf tournament.
[00:19:57] Nicole: I was like, right on. And then [00:20:00] ironically, my eldest niece, which really broke my heart. 'cause of course I want things to be totally different now. She was a junior in high school and she was in class and she. I guess was sitting at this table and she told me, she said, this jock guy who's in my class said, Hey, can I sit in your seat?
[00:20:27] Nicole: And she said, no, you know, and he was, he didn't say anything and he just stood behind her and waited. And her feeling was, oh my God, this exists. And she just felt him and it, she's like, I just felt boy energy. She's, she said, I couldn't believe the audacity that he just stood there and waited. And she's like, she said, and I didn't feel like I had a right to say no.
[00:20:56] Nicole: So I moved
[00:20:58] Nicole: and I was like, oh [00:21:00] God. So that was, I mean, just fascinating things. And one more story that I thought was also totally fascinating. I have this friend who We used to use the word tomboy, I guess we're not supposed to use that word, but she writes, well, in li in liberal media, you don't, liberals they do not use tomboy.
[00:21:22] Nicole: And, and, and I guess the kids too, like I've said, tomboy and my nieces are like anti Cole. You can't say that. So, but I'm saying this right now and I can't, I can't really answer why 'cause I'm old. Okay, so, so, so, so this girlfriend of mine, she was like, I had short hair and from the time I was four or five years old, I was, I would dread to go to the bathroom because I was always shamed that they would, the idea, little boy, you cannot going into the right bathroom.
[00:21:54] Nicole: And she was like, I'm a girl. And then she was [00:22:00] incredibly athletic. Like she actually like played basketball to you. She's like major and. She was saying that when she, when she was like a kid, eight, nine years old, she was in little league with the boys and she would strike the boys out and make them cry and the parents would start screaming and shaming her like, are you, how old are you?
[00:22:28] Nicole: Are you supposed to be in this league? When they knew she was a girl, but they were like not tolerant of the fact that this girl was making the boys look bad. So I thought that was interesting too.
[00:22:42] Jolene: That is interesting. Okay, so let me ask you, listening to all these stories, they were all. I mean all fantastic stories, but they were all, negative experiences [00:23:00] of women or being a woman.
[00:23:03] Nicole: I had this wonderful talk with my sister-in-law and who I just adore. And she was talking about how the older she is, the more empowered she feels, the more confident she feels, the more in her skin she feels. And that was also a, uh, a overriding. Um, but that partial partially, Jolene was probably me asking the questions because I, one of the questions I asked was, when was the first time you realized you were a woman?
[00:23:39] Nicole: And what did that feel like? So there was always a combination of like, the discrimination. And also there was also a lot of like understanding. The power we have and knowing when to use it and then when not to use it. [00:24:00] And whether it was my niece or someone older, both had a similar, like sometimes I've had to dumb things down to not intimidate, which I found fascinating that it still exists. is this correlating to anything that you talked about?
[00:24:18] Jolene: Well, okay, so it's funny because, so one of the questions was, what's the most challenging thing about being a woman? And I said a Republican woman. And almost everyone's answer was basically the same. That, that being a Republican woman, means that sometimes it gets misconstrued
[00:24:41] Jolene: that you are not a feminist.
[00:24:43] Jolene: And so how do you, how do you, are you just, um, being submissive and like that, that is the connotation that, that a lot of people have of being, um, of, of Republican women and [00:25:00] that it's okay to be pro-choice or that to be pro-life and not be pro-choice, that you can be a woman and be pro-life and that that's okay.
[00:25:08] Jolene: So, so it's kind of funny that, that, that is one of, that was kind of a, an a generalization that everybody felt that, you know, being a Christian and living by Christian values because all the women that I interviewed were all Christian. that's what being a Republican was for them, and that that's not always seen as a positive
[00:25:31] Nicole: To be fair. All the women that I am realizing, they were all, they're like raging liberals. They're all raging liberals. So, so, you know, we can go, that way. And that makes sense to me, Jolene, that, um, that that would a possible contradiction about being a feminist, being, pro woman and choosing, uh, to not be an [00:26:00] abortion advocate, uh, or choosing.
[00:26:02] Nicole: Um, I don't know. That's probably the main, is that the main topic or other topics? I mean, other.
[00:26:11] Jolene: I also think like there, because then, and, and, and really specifically Callie, you know, talked about how the, the pressure, because one of the questions I asked is, is, do you think being a woman in your whatever age you are, is better than being a man? and it was interesting that , everyone said yes except, Cali specifically said there's more pressure on being a late twenties, early thirties, , 30-year-old woman because we have to think about, , career
[00:26:45] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:45] Jolene: and family.
[00:26:47] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:48] Jolene: Should we be freezing our eggs or should we, you know, find a spouse? What if we don't have a spouse? Do we just want a baby?
[00:26:56] Jolene: Is that gonna be acceptable? How do we work and do that? Like, there's all these, [00:27:00] how do we look good? How do we feel good? How do we get enough? How do we get enough sleep? How do we get enough protein?
[00:27:04] Jolene: How do we, you know, all
[00:27:05] Jolene: those things that men are not concerned with. And so, everyone else said that they liked being a woman at their age and that they said that yes, that they are happier than men. Because in the, in the 50-year-old, now you're thinking about retirement and you've gotta make sure that, you know, if you are the breadwinner, now you are, um, you know, that you're making sure that all of your ducks are, are in a row.
[00:27:29] Jolene: When do you retire? And if you do retire, what do you do? And, and that women don't have as much of that pressure. And even though my 50-year-old friend makes as much as her husband, I mean, they're both equal. That pressure. Men think about work, women think about everything else.
[00:27:45] Jolene: I mean, that's kind of the bottom line that,
[00:27:48] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah,
[00:27:50] Nicole: I agree with Kelly. I definitely had that experience coming up because I was single for a very long time, um, and very focused on my [00:28:00] career and wasn't thinking about freezing my eggs or any of that. For me, it was like, I wanna find the right partner that I wanna do this because I, I don't want to do this without the right partner.
[00:28:10] Nicole: That was my experience. But I do, I was, it was reminding me that I was talking to my sister-in-law about it, how. Because she got divorced and then, and later she married my brother and I had a similar experience being single for later, you're not totally accepted when you're single or you're divorced, like, you're not always invited to every single party.
[00:28:31] Nicole: Or weekends can be strange when your friends get coupled up or if you're, I can't speak, I mean, I didn't get divorced, but like in her situation, she had this group of friends and then she was divorced and then where, where did she fit? And for me, I got into my late thirties, still single, and like weekends would come, it would be like, uh, where is everybody?
[00:28:54] Nicole: Uh, and, and then when I met Josh and, [00:29:00] and just. Like got engaged, like when the word got out, all of a sudden it didn't, it didn't matter. All the things I had achieved in my career, which at the time I had achieved a lot, I was really proud of myself and I was really, really happy in my skin and what I'd become or what I was becoming, still becoming.
[00:29:27] Nicole: But all of a sudden it was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Like, you have been invited into the club, lady. Like, welcome. It was like, now you're a whole woman. Which was sort of like, Ew,
[00:29:39] Jolene: Gosh.
[00:29:40] Nicole: no. What? Wait a minute. I haven't, I haven't changed. And, and so that's interesting that Callie said that. And it's also because this is not gonna, this is not gonna make any sense to your side, your clan, but I come from a a, a line of little ladies.
[00:29:58] Nicole: We are little women. [00:30:00] And so whether my sister-in-law's, little, I'm little. And I was recalling how when you're a small woman, um, like I remember this guy in high school patting me on the head. I fucking punched him in the stomach. I was like, don't you dare pat me on the head. That is this feeling of like, you know, like, I like taking up space because we're always sort of, you know, even our fashion about like being off balance and being like, how do we take up more space, like starving ourselves?
[00:30:38] Nicole: All of those things that we don't take space. Right? So Callie, so Callie, is she feeling that pressure now
[00:30:44] Jolene: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, because she's the last one of her friends to get married and so
[00:30:50] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:30:50] Jolene: I think she's, you know, thinking, okay, we're gonna have to start having kids right away. And how does that affect my job?
[00:30:56] Nicole: does she ever, think about, does she want it?
[00:30:59] Jolene: [00:31:00] Yes. And I think that's, um, and again, I, because I only spoke to my kids, I, you know, I know that this is a, not a generalization, but my kids want it all. They
[00:31:12] Jolene: want a career, and they want a family,
[00:31:14] Jolene: and they want, you know, to have fun. And they want money, but they wanna be comfortable. Uh, you know, they, they want it all.
[00:31:21] Nicole: Yes. We have a child like that too. And who and who, but who doesn't? I mean, that sounds lovely. That sounds lovely.
[00:31:28] Jolene: Absolutely. I, it's healthy until it becomes obsessive and
[00:31:32] Nicole: Sure. That's right. That's right.
[00:31:35] Jolene: hopefully you have the wherewithal to be able to pick and choose and go, well, I want this, but I'm just gonna settle for this because this is what I really want. So this is gonna have to take a, a backseat and maybe someday I'll have it all.
[00:31:46] Nicole: Right. And and what does that mean? I mean, in that, even that pressure, because life as you know, you and I know is 56-year-old women, it doesn't go to plan it. It's up and down and magical and painful and [00:32:00] all the things. And I think sometimes the most incredible things happen when you, let them
[00:32:07] Jolene: Right. And when you can pivot,
[00:32:09] Nicole: Yes. When you can pivot.
[00:32:11] Jolene: okay, well now we are going to move to Albuquerque, New Mexico. Didn't
[00:32:16] Jolene: see that one. And now I'm gonna be the church newsletter person.
[00:32:23] Nicole: Right. Or like when things, yeah, hypothetically, or with things like I've had many times where like everything's fallen apart at the same time and every time that's happened, like work, personal life, whatever, whatever. for me it's been that moment of like, okay, I gotta pick myself up.
[00:32:41] Nicole: Let's like what's gonna happen now? Let's do it again. Like listen, I didn't have a baby as you know, and, but I always think about a birth plan and, and women that like have these birth plans. And I find it really funny because I'm like, I think the body just decides what's gonna happen and that [00:33:00] birth plans, sure have a plan, but then get ready.
[00:33:03] Nicole: 'cause life is gonna throw a lot at you. And I think it's that sort of like, you know, structure and the magic happens in the unexpected. And the listening and the, and the, and the being present.
[00:33:15] Jolene: Yep. So from, from a spiritual perspective, I've always said, you gotta bloom where you're planted. And like that is, I mean,
[00:33:24] Nicole: Oh, I love that.
[00:33:25] Jolene: I mean, okay, so you're here and this is what life has given you. What are you gonna do with it? I mean, that is absolutely okay. But I love this too, because one of the questions I asked is, what do you think that women do better than men?
[00:33:37] Jolene: and everyone said, being a leader they wish that we had more Republican women because they think that, um, Republican women can, can really look at things, from a lots of different perspectives and that they, um, like have a better perspective on things than, than men do better in crisis management
[00:33:58] Nicole: I would agree with [00:34:00] that.
[00:34:00] Jolene: and better in multitasking, you know, uh, you know that women can.
[00:34:05] Jolene: Hold a baby, get on a Zoom call, make, have dinner going in the background, and you know, I mean, do all the things. So I thought that was really interesting. Did you, did you ask a question like that or
[00:34:16] Nicole: When you said, the multitaskers, it sort of reminds me of like my single parent friends, whether they're male or female, that they have muscles that we don't always have they have so much coming at them that they can do all of those things.
[00:34:29] Nicole: But I do think women are really good at crisis management for the most part. I always find it interesting in a crisis watching what I do, how I react, and how other people react. Um, it's fascinating
[00:34:46] Nicole: Something else happens in a crisis and that you just sort of zone in and figure out. there's no time to feel really. You just gotta like, I gotta get to work, I gotta do, I gotta do this, you know?
[00:34:57] Jolene: women do, and again, I know I'm making a generalization, and [00:35:00] all of these comments I know are either from, you know.
[00:35:02] Jolene: People that have directly made these comments or just, these are generalization, but I think women are really good at identifying the problem. What's the next step to, to fix it?
[00:35:12] Jolene: How does that, what are the other things that are related to that? I mean, I think that they're, we're able to break things down in a way that a, a man is usually just gung-ho, like, here we go, but let's just go like a bull in a China shop and,
[00:35:27] Nicole: Well that's one thing that's, that's interesting because that was something that, my eldest niece, Tessa, was talking about what she was saying, that even in this day and age the boys in her class are taught to go for it and expected to get it,
[00:35:41] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:35:42] Nicole: the girls, it's less acceptable to go for it and it's not a guarantee that you're gonna get it, which I found
[00:35:50] Jolene: okay if you don't
[00:35:50] Nicole: if it's okay if you don't. Right. she said like in this day and age in her generation, that women can [00:36:00] quote unquote do anything, but it's usually one woman that actually does it.
[00:36:04] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:36:05] Nicole: It's not all of them. And the other thing, when you said the thing about the bloom, can you say the bloom thing again? What was
[00:36:11] Jolene: Bloom where you're planted.
[00:36:12] Nicole: okay.
[00:36:14] Nicole: This is what Tessa, my 18-year-old niece says. Not all ticks carry Lyme disease, but you have to be aware of them.
[00:36:26] Jolene: Tessa, did you make that up?
[00:36:27] Nicole: I don't know, but I was like, yes, you do, honey. Yes you do. You gotta be aware of 'em. Mm-hmm. I mean, she's a very lovely, vivacious, hopeful person, but that was really funny to me. But yeah, that idea of like our mothers and the liberation movement brought us up.
[00:36:48] Nicole: And so we were sort of like, you can do anything. And we're kind of the first generation is like, uh, can we have it all? Can we do it all? And now our [00:37:00] daughters or your daughters, my nieces, they're a little bit like. Sorta.
[00:37:08] Jolene: Okay. So that's interesting because one of the questions I asked everybody was, um, are you optimistic about the future?
[00:37:14] Jolene: the younger ones were like, hell yes, we are ready to go. Like,
[00:37:19] Nicole: Thank God.
[00:37:20] Jolene: good. I know, right?
[00:37:21] Nicole: Thank God.
[00:37:22] Jolene: But they even took a Republican twist on that though, and said, yes, we think that there is, um, that we're returning more to family values.
[00:37:32] Jolene: Conservative economic policies that would help women and entrepreneurs. Like that was, um, and actually my 50-year-old said that as well, talked about the entrepreneurs and, and working moms that,
[00:37:45] Nicole: Can you give me an example of what you mean by that? 'cause I don't, I wouldn't know what that example would be.
[00:37:51] Jolene: um, like the, so the, uh, returning to economic policies, uh, conservative economic policies would be, if we are [00:38:00] to talk about, um, well, I don't know if this is actually conservative economic values because it's, it's like, um, spending what you, what you earn. Like you, you're not gonna take a bunch of loans.
[00:38:13] Jolene: You're not gonna go
[00:38:15] Nicole: So that's not actually what's really happening in our government right
[00:38:19] Nicole: now, but I understand, but it's a value, but it's not. Got it. Got it. That's fair. That's fair.
[00:38:25] Jolene: And, um, and that there's so much help now for, um, for entrepreneurs that, you know, small, small business administration and, um, all of these private organizations that really are trying to, um, help people that, that want to work and, and, um, you know, come up with an idea and, you know, how do you get that out into the market? , The 80-year-old, not optimistic about the future, and not just her future, but I mean, but um, no, like she can't stand to watch the news
[00:38:59] Nicole: Yeah, I have a, [00:39:00] I, I mean, I do, when I'm thinking about this too, I have an, uh, like kind of basically my other mother and she's not optimistic at all. Like very upset by the news. Very upset.
[00:39:13] Jolene: Yep.
[00:39:14] Nicole: So, your mom, sorry, I didn't mean, I didn't mean I didn't mean to interrupt you.
[00:39:19] Jolene: And I'll even say that mom, after the, after the mom, mom,
[00:39:25] Nicole: Oh, boy.
[00:39:27] Jolene: conversation. She said, I really enjoyed that because I didn't know anything about him. And I said, you haven't seen anything about him? And she goes, no, I don't watch the news anymore. I can't stand the news.
[00:39:41] Jolene: So I, that was really educational. Thank you. I, I really learned a lot.
[00:39:44] Nicole: oh good.
[00:39:45] Jolene: okay, well we are so we may be the source of news now for my mom.
[00:39:50] Nicole: Listen, Sally, it's our pleasure.
[00:39:54] Jolene: We'll just tell you what to think. Don't worry. Um,
[00:39:57] Nicole: Right? Well, that's what they all do these days, right?[00:40:00]
[00:40:00] Jolene: That's
[00:40:00] Jolene: true. So I thought it was, um, Part of the sentiment is that we're not worried about social issues as much as, you know, let's get back to the things that we need to be concerned about.
[00:40:11] Jolene: And let's not be worried about transgender in the military and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Let's worry about things that really do matter and let's leave those things to other people that need to deal with them and that want to deal with them and, you know, in your own personal lives. And, you know, let's not leave that up to the government to say, you need to have this many people doing this.
[00:40:34] Jolene: And
[00:40:35] Nicole: This is what your daughters were saying.
[00:40:37] Jolene: Yes.
[00:40:37] Nicole: Was there any other, uh, questions that were interesting that you wanted to share?
[00:40:43] Jolene: one other comment is since Trump has won, they think that there are more, there's more hatred towards Republicans Which I think we would all agree. I mean, I, yeah. And that, and that people, oh, that was something that people hate them,
[00:40:58] Nicole: You think? You think [00:41:00] so? You think that people are,
[00:41:03] Jolene: hate Republicans because of Trump,
[00:41:06] Nicole: well, yeah, I guess you're right. I guess they do.
[00:41:08] Jolene: and not because they've done anything, but just if you've, if you have a MAGA hat on, or you've got a Trump bumper sticker, you've automatically, whether you've even, you know, opened your mouth to somebody
[00:41:21] Jolene: that they automatically assume A, a democrat would automatically assume that
[00:41:26] Nicole: They feel, yeah, they feel threatened.
[00:41:29] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:41:30] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So does that make them not want to share that they are, do they find themselves like keeping quiet?
[00:41:41] Jolene: Absolutely.
[00:41:42] Nicole: I mean, I'll say, I mean, this is such old news, but I think that's why the results of the election were so shocking to us liberals, and I, and I, honestly, I don't, I don't blame a person, like there was so much division.
[00:41:58] Nicole: I mean, obviously there still is [00:42:00] that it's like if you believed in something and you're like, I'm not gonna say anything. I don't wanna get, I don't wanna get bullied.
[00:42:06] Jolene: yeah,
[00:42:07] Nicole: That makes sense to me.
[00:42:09] Jolene: yeah.
[00:42:09] Jolene: Okay. What else? What, what else for you?
[00:42:11] Nicole: these are gonna sound negative, but these are a couple things that, that, um, was experienced in my friends that are in the corporate world, of my friends was talking about how she had a boss that would scream constantly and she always thought if it was a woman that would never fly and I don't think this is the same person, that she had an experience where she was new to a company and her.
[00:42:39] Nicole: Colleague there were, it was like a small group, and, and there was a man there, I guess they were all men. And one day she was hungry and wanted someone to go have lunch with her. So she said, Hey, do you wanna have lunch with me to get, you know, to get to know the group? And he was like, no, my wife wouldn't like it.
[00:42:59] Nicole: And her [00:43:00] reaction was like, hold on a second. Why are you making me feel like I did something wrong? I just want, I just want a sandwich. And then I've heard that since, it seems so crazy. Like, do your daughters go through any of that stuff in their world? Or maybe you're not allowed to say? I don't know.
[00:43:21] Jolene: no, I think, well, I mean, you look at Callie who worked in
[00:43:24] Nicole: I mean, I mean, yeah.
[00:43:26] Jolene: so I mean, she was surrounded with by men, so but I mean, she dealt with Yeah. People who made, you know, off colored comments or, you know, their intentions may have been something else if she would've, you know, allowed that to.
[00:43:42] Jolene: Open that door. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think that's,
[00:43:46] Jolene: but
[00:43:46] Nicole: And I would imagine you did too. You did too. And when you were in sales and stuff, right?
[00:43:51] Jolene: I think that is still just a thing for
[00:43:55] Jolene: women
[00:43:55] Jolene: that women have to deal with do you think it's gotten worse since the Trump era, [00:44:00] that sort of bravado,
[00:44:02] Jolene: no, I think it's,
[00:44:04] Nicole: or it's always been that way?
[00:44:06] Jolene: I think it's gotten better. I think
[00:44:08] Nicole: You do?
[00:44:09] Jolene: I think it's gotten better because, I mean, I think it was so commonplace. Where men ruled the world and if women dared to come into their space
[00:44:21] Jolene: that, you know, you had men who wanted to put them in their place or you know, let them, you know, have a control issue or
[00:44:28] Jolene: whatever.
[00:44:29] Jolene: And I don't think it's that way as much anymore. I mean, I think because it's so common to have women in the workplace now or in, you know, wherever
[00:44:40] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I guess I just wish, like, I don't want your daughters or my nieces or I, I just want it to be better. Just better.
[00:44:54] Jolene: I truly think it is.
[00:44:55] Nicole: I hope so because and again, I will give Trump, [00:45:00] um, a little bit of credit here. Can
[00:45:03] Nicole: you
[00:45:03] Jolene: my gosh.
[00:45:05] Nicole: That I think, uh, that I think he's not, he has not been tweeting the crazy that he did so much and, and that really that, that in instant, oh my God, oh, this is a totally separate subject.
[00:45:20] Nicole: I saw an amazing interview with him on BBC yesterday. I say that because he was so, like, calm and tempered and, and I appreciated that. I'm gonna give him a win here. I appreciated that. And so when, when. He has been coming up and been like, spewing hate and that kind of thing. I worry that like, it just creates a culture of hate for women in general.
[00:45:47] Nicole: Now, I will say that like if I try to sit down and watch a John Hughes movie with my nieces thinking, oh, it was so cool. And like, like whether it's, [00:46:00] uh, pretty and pink or, uh, 16 candles, and then you look at it and you're like, holy shit, this is so sexist. This is so racist. This is so, so, so that. Then I could say, oh yeah, it is better now.
[00:46:15] Nicole: You know? Um, 'cause the things that happen that in terms of women, that would never fly in a movie now, ever, ever, ever. I do wanna say that. I just wanna thank. My friends and my, uh, sister-in-law and my nieces, um, for sharing your stories with me. I was, it's really been, it was been a privilege and I've learned so much and I really appreciate that you talked to me so that I could share this with everybody.
[00:46:46] Jolene: Aw, that's So, nice.
[00:46:48] Nicole: thank
[00:46:48] Nicole: you.
[00:46:49] Jolene: to my people too.
[00:46:53] Nicole: do you have a, would you rather
[00:46:54] Jolene: I do. Do
[00:46:55] Nicole: I, I do.
[00:46:56]
[00:47:01] Nicole: This is because we are doing the woman episode,
[00:47:05] Jolene: Okay.
[00:47:06] Nicole: not that this is what women represent. By the way, let me just say this. I just thought it was funny. I really just thought it was funny. Okay. Okay. Okay.
[00:47:15] Jolene: okay.
[00:47:17] Nicole: Would you rather have a child every year for 20 years
[00:47:25] Nicole: or never have any children at all?
[00:47:29] Jolene: Oh, crap.
[00:47:31] Nicole: I know, I knew that would be hard for you.
[00:47:35] Jolene: Oh
[00:47:36] Nicole: children. Can you imagine the, the physical toll?
[00:47:45] Jolene: I mean, I couldn't drink for 20 years. I couldn't wear a swimsuit. 20. Okay. But I also can't imagine not having children.
[00:47:56] Jolene: So I guess if those are my choices, I'm gonna have [00:48:00] 20 of 'em. Let's go. Let's, let's get it on.
[00:48:07] Nicole: Oh, well, your house could probably, you know, in a pinch house, 20 kids.
[00:48:12] Jolene: my gosh. 20
[00:48:14] Nicole: 20 kids. Can you imagine?
[00:48:16] Jolene: I don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm, maybe I could be a foster mom,
[00:48:20] Nicole: There you go.
[00:48:21] Jolene: so maybe I don't have it. Okay. No, I'm gonna, I'm rethinking my answer.
[00:48:25] Nicole: But I don't know if I, if that's that qualifies. I don't think you can have any children.
[00:48:32] Nicole: I mean, yeah.
[00:48:35] Jolene: Yeah, no, I'm gonna have to have the I'm have damn 20 kids.
[00:48:39] Nicole: I mean, listen, you're an amazing mom.
[00:48:42] Jolene: Oh,
[00:48:43] Nicole: You really
[00:48:44] Jolene: sweet thing. That is a sweet thing to say.
[00:48:46] Nicole: It's, it's the more I've all through the years and I've, you know, gotten to know you and I feel like I've, you know, we've become closer in the last couple years and watched these young women. Speaking of [00:49:00] women that you have raised, um,
[00:49:05] Jolene: Oh, that's so sweet. Thank Oh, look at you getting all emotional.
[00:49:11] Nicole: I just, You've raised some good people, some good women
[00:49:15] Jolene: thank
[00:49:16] Nicole: to, to carry on, and it's okay that they're Republican.
[00:49:23] Jolene: You
[00:49:23] Jolene: can still try to change them Maybe, they'll come over to the other side. But, um, but yeah, I really marvel at how wonderful a a a mother you are. A parent you are.
[00:49:33] Jolene: thank you. but I also think, um, you know, I had a, I have a fantastic mother Yes you do.
[00:49:40] Jolene: I know, and I, I
[00:49:42] Nicole: Even though she has no hope for our future.
[00:49:44] Jolene: She, she thinks we're all going to hell in a hand basket. But no, I think, I think I've had strong women in my life too, and I think that, you know, when you've got, um, you know, my sister's a good person.
[00:49:59] Jolene: I, I I think when [00:50:00] you've got those women around
[00:50:01] Jolene: you that, I mean, it makes you, it makes you better
[00:50:06] Nicole: I agree. So Would you rather be an herbivore or a carnivore?
[00:50:15] Nicole: Well, I have been an her before
[00:50:20] Jolene: I know.
[00:50:22] Nicole: and then I saw the light. Listen, it just works better for my system. I mean, my doctors are like, you need to eat red meat. Um, and yeah, I think now that I've come back to the, to the dark side, I'm not going back. I my carnivore.
[00:50:45] Jolene: Okay. But like, but you can't have any vegetables or fruit. You can only have meat.
[00:50:52] Nicole: Oh, then you'd get like the meat sweats.
[00:50:55] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:50:56] Nicole: O
[00:50:58] Jolene: Right.
[00:50:59] Nicole: oof. [00:51:00] I don't know. I, I, I love vegetables and fruit. I especially love vegetables. Hmm. This is weighing heavy
[00:51:11] Jolene: I know.
[00:51:11] Nicole: 'cause I need the protein, but I think if I was a smart herbivore, I could still get the protein. So now you're changing my mind and I'm going herbivore, I'm getting rid of 'cause the night, the, the meat sweats.
[00:51:30] Jolene: Oh, could you imagine just having me?
[00:51:32] Nicole: No, I, no I can't because the boys in my life love meat. And when there's too much meat, it just, also because I was an herbivore for a very long time, sometimes it really grosses me out. Like I don't really love cooking it. And, and I do feel better having it, but not, not all the time and oof me and my menopause body.
[00:51:52] Nicole: No thank you. Sweat is, sweat is sweaty.
[00:51:56] Jolene: Oh [00:52:00] God. This was good. I love that we did something that wasn't so political, but it was
[00:52:04] Jolene: really celebrating women and
[00:52:06] Jolene: whether you are a Democrat woman or a Republican woman or an independent woman, um, or you don't know what you are, I think this was
[00:52:15] Jolene: really good that, that we absolutely.
[00:52:18] Jolene: We have so much to be proud of and, and we've done so much work that, um, it's fun to talk about being a woman.
[00:52:25] Nicole: Yes. And thank you for the women before us that gave us the freedoms and the liberties that we now have. We really thank you for that. please like, subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts. And um,
[00:52:42] Jolene: Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
[00:52:45] Nicole: bye Joe. I'll see you on the side. [00:53:00]
