Debating RFK’s Role as Secretary of HSS
In our latest episode, we tackled a story that reads like a political thriller—Robert F. Kennedy Jr's appointment as U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services. This isn't just another political appointment; it's a narrative that challenges everything we thought we knew about party lines, public health, and the dance between science and politics.
A Liberal Lion in a Conservative Den
Picture this: A Kennedy—yes, from that Kennedy family—potentially serving under a Republican administration. It's like watching a political eclipse; rare, fascinating, and slightly unsettling. Though, not dissimilar to Trump switching from his Liberal roots to the Republican party. This unexpected alliance has left both sides of the aisle scratching their heads, wondering if we've entered an alternate political universe. Or has it become more important to side with the party that you think has the best chance of holding the power.
The Vaccine Voyage: Between Science and Skepticism
When it comes to vaccines, RFK Jr's stance is as complex as a chess game in the dark. His journey from vaccinating his own children to becoming a vocal critic of vaccine policies raises eyebrows and questions in equal measure. Jolene and I dissected his evolution: How does a man who acknowledges vaccine benefits while expressing regret over his personal choices plan to shape America's health policy?
The million-dollar question emerges: Where's the sweet spot between healthy skepticism and dangerous doubt?
Big Pharma: The Invisible Hand
Let's talk about the elephant in the room—pharmaceutical companies' grip on American healthcare. RFK Jr, fresh from his battles in corporate courtrooms, brings a unique perspective to this fight. But here's the twist: Could his promised transparency be the antidote to big pharma's influence, or will it become another casualty of Washington's power games?
Political Theater: Where Words Dance and Truth Hides
Watch any congressional hearing, and you'll witness a masterclass in political choreography. Jolene and I broke down the linguistic gymnastics politicians perform—the carefully crafted questions, the artful dodges, the strategic soundbites. Yet amidst this performance, voices like John Cornyn and Bill Cassidy emerge as rare breeds: politicians who still believe in bridging divides rather than widening them.
The Transparency Revolution
Here's what makes this story captivating: RFK Jr's promise to prioritize science over political allegiance. In a world where health policies often bow to economic interests, could this be the shake-up our healthcare system needs? If he can navigate these treacherous waters while keeping his compass pointed toward public good, we might be witnessing a pivotal moment in American healthcare.
Beyond the Echo Chamber
This isn't just about political appointments or healthcare policies—it's about reclaiming our voice in conversations that affect our families' wellbeing. We're calling for a new era of informed dialogue, where questioning the status quo doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist, and supporting science doesn't make you a corporate puppet.
As we closed our discussion, one thing became crystal clear: This conversation isn't just about RFK Jr or political appointments—it's about you, your health, and your right to understand the forces shaping our healthcare future. The question isn't whether you agree with every point, but whether you're ready to join this crucial conversation about our collective wellbeing.
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Nicole: [00:00:00] There's been so much going on in the last, I mean, it, it changes minute by minute as we know. And so it was like, how are we going to decide what to talk about?
, and we made the decision that both of us were pretty passionate
about RFK as health and human services secretary. So that's what we're going to talk about this morning, or that's almost afternoon. And maybe it is afternoon wherever you are listening, and maybe it's evening.
So we're just going to talk about RFK.
How about
Jolene: have got to talk about
got to talk about it. We got to talk.
if you want to talk about political sides I mean it he doesn't really fit into what I think he used to be liberal. He comes from a liberal family He's now, you know, wanting to serve at the pleasure of a conservative or, you know, a Republican president.
Jolene: I don't know if he's so conservative, but,
Nicole: And he used to be liberal too,
Jolene: right. So, right. So this is a, uh, this is a great topic for us to talk [00:01:00] about because it is, I think there's going to be give and take on both sides for sure.
Nicole: I read so many articles. I listened to and watched all six hours of his hearing.
Jolene: Oh, wow.
Nicole: Yeah, I found it fascinating for so many reasons.
Jolene: I first learned of him during the campaign, right? Because he was, he was running for president. Did you give him any attention at all when he was running for president?
Nicole: You know, we talk about like our knee jerk reaction
there was so much crazy, uh, between bringing a dead bear to Central Park, which he admitted that he did and left and some of his crazy posts. I was like, uh, I, it was hard for me to hear anything else at that time.
And so I did think it was a mistake that the Democrats didn't even [00:02:00] take a look at him to partner with because he had a ton of people that wanted to have him as their president and. And Trump and the Republicans were smart enough to say, Hey, we'll have a listen.
Jolene: Okay, so was your initial reaction then to him, was that he was, he was crazy? I mean, that's so, the, the news that you listened to during the campaign, , was, I mean, he was, he was crazy.
Nicole: Well, that's the thing that seeing from the hearings, he has so many amazingly good ideas
Jolene: Mm
Nicole: , there's times that I'm completely on board with what he has to say, we are in a, uh, chronic illness crisis, a cancer crisis, an obesity crisis. Uh, we throw drugs at people like it's candy. Um, and there are things that I think he's so smart about.
And then there are [00:03:00] things that. He uses his influence in a way that I find, uh, dangerous. And it was very confusing that these conservative Republicans were all of a sudden caring about their food. As I started trying to, like, my makeup, I want to say about six years ago, I became pretty aware and about what kind of chemicals we put as women and men on our faces, uh, in our bodies and was trying my best to clean that part out. And they have made huge advances in the cosmetic industry in the last five years, the kind of things that we have access to, it's wonderful, but they're not doing it with food.
And as you said to me in one of the episodes before, I travel a lot. Uh, it's my happy place. I feel very lucky to be able to do it. . And every [00:04:00] time I travel and I eat Everyone's food it is cleaner.
I feel better it's just that is how it is and then you go to the grocery store and there is very little fresh food and that is a problem and I think that it's super exciting to me that conservative Republicans who, never paid attention to this topic before are, are like on the grandstand ready to
Jolene: wait. So let me stop you right there. Why do you think Republicans never cared about this before? Like what, what makes you say that?
Nicole: Well, I was listening to your girl, Barry Weiss, this morning and it was on the subject of, they call it the Maha movement, the make America. And I, I, I hate acronyms. I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. And this country loves them. Hate them. and, She was [00:05:00] saying how she had different guests on and one of them is that, that, uh, fitness person, Jillian Michaels, who had been a liberal and has then has, I don't know if she would call herself conservative, but she,
Jolene: she got on the RFK
Nicole: got on the RFK bandwagon, yeah, the RFK bandwagon and, um, You know, she's been touting these, beliefs about how toxic our food is and our environment is.
And no one listened until it became political. And that's what I think is an interesting idea, is that now that it's political, it seems to be a popular thing to pay attention to.
Jolene: Okay, so, but, going back to, you thought that didn't care about the safety of our food,
Nicole: well, here's the thing, I mean, and this is what I find confusing about All of this, [00:06:00] all of where we are now politically, is that, there just seems to be a lot of, um, contradiction, maybe I'm, I'm going to make this broader, maybe it's not just the Republican Party, but the Republicans, and maybe you can help me with this, I thought Republicans wanted small government, I thought Republicans want less.
Jolene: regulations,
Nicole: regulations and the government in their, in their business. And yet, when it comes to, and I know I'm going off topic, but when it comes to women's bodies, and they do talk, they did, they talked about it in the hearing a lot about Mifflin Pristone and, and using it in emergency care and so there's just so much contradiction that I start to not believe.
anyone. And what was confusing about RFK, he had a lot of really interesting thoughts. what was [00:07:00] startling was when he's always been a pro choice candidate, pro choice believer, and now every Every time. And he was asked a bunch of times in both days. So, do you believe, you know, will you authorize Mifepristone or will you, you know, let a woman's right to choose or blah, blah, blah, blah.
Every time he said, I think every abortion is a tragedy. That's all he said. He never wavered. Bill Cassidy, who is the Louisiana, you know him, he was your senator.
Jolene: yeah,
Nicole: I found him incredibly impressive.
And he's a doctor and he is very concerned.
He agrees, like there's so much that he's simpatico with about the food and the chronic illness and, and the pharma buy in, and everyone, except for certain, certain Like [00:08:00] hardline Trumpers concerned about his anti vax, his whole career, and Cassidy basically just giving it to him. Can you, he didn't say this, but it was like, can you please just say the vaccinations are safe? Can you please just say that vaccinations don't cause, autism can it was because he's like, because to me, the subtext was if you say it and if you believe it, then I will vote for you.
But if you can't and every time he would say, well, we'll show me the evidence. And he would say, he would say, here's all the evidence. And he's like, yeah, but show me the evidence.
Jolene: All right. So let's break this down a little bit. I don't think he's anti vax. I think he has made it very clear that all of his kids were vaccinated. He has five kids. They've and he's, he's vaccinated them all. So he's not anti vax.
Nicole: But he has said, Jolene, that he regretted vaccinating them.
Jolene: I think what [00:09:00] I understand that to be is that he just took the government's These are the vaccines , that everyone should take and give your children. Don't ask any questions. Just do it. And I think that right there is, I think the basis of where most people are, are starting to side with him because, and, and I think where a lot of people are
tired and really what shifted I think this election people are tired of having the government say. We know better than you just do what we say. You know, you, you guys are dumber than we are. Let us take care of you. And so he was really the first one to, to kind of stand up.
And I think he did this during his, the presidential campaign to stand up and say. I'm not saying that it causes autism. But I don't think that we've done enough. Um, enough testing to say that it doesn't. We think that it's safe. If you [00:10:00] if you listen to Rand Paul, Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky, he's and he's also a doctor.
And so I listened to his portion during the confirmation hearing. And he said, You know, vaccines are the greatest thing. They absolutely are the greatest thing. That we have ever, I mean, the, the, the, the science behind vaccines is absolutely life changing, obviously, polio and, you know, uh, MMR, measles, the whole thing, yes, , but when Cassidy was asking him to say that they are safe, he said, I can't say that they're safe. Are there 90 percent of the time that, that it is effective and it's good and all that. but the fact that we've just continued to add on another vaccine and another vaccine that we are now at 72 vaccines by the time you're 18 years old, 72, Vaccines.
I think about, when the vaccine came out [00:11:00] for girls to get the, HPV and I was asking my gynecologist should I, I've got three daughters. Should they get it? She goes, Oh, absolutely. It's going to prevent them from getting cervical cancer. When you really dug into what that vaccine does, there are five types of cervical cancers and I don't know how many types there are, but there are more than five.
, it does help prevent , the five most popular types of, or most common types of cervical cancer. Okay. But also, there are times when cervical cancer, the HPV virus, heals itself. so when you, uh, through studies, if, if you look at, the progression of that HPV virus over the last 30 years and what used to be treated.
, with an acid treatment and, you know, laser treatments, you had to get rid of [00:12:00] that. Now, it goes away by itself. Or, if it is one of the certain five types of, that leads to, to cervical cancer, Um, it is so slow growing that it doesn't really need to be treated. There are instances where it has gone away on its own.
I don't have it in front of me, but it's, it's a lot of research that I did look at, though, at the time. but everybody was so gung ho to get this, to get everybody vaccinated, all these girls, young girls vaccinated and then it was, it was young boys as well.
I can't say that it was safely attributed to the vaccine, but it was, uh, coincidentally, a lot of people had. reactions after getting the second or third shot of this. It was a three shot vaccine.
And so those are the kinds of things that I'm like, why, why was it so important to get every single girl vaccinated in the United States my hesitation on vaccines really stems from, from that.
Nicole: gosh, there was so [00:13:00] much you just said. and as I was listening to the hearings, also very naively didn't. realize how much pharma and, um, food companies are in bed with each other and the government and the political campaigns of all of them.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: Right. and they said that also for hep B, there was Bill Cassidy was talking about, Dr.
Cassidy, about being a doctor and that a lot of the times, it's not similar to HPV, but that they can't always tell if the mother was, has HPV. So they do it to make sure because it's a curable disease and the, the repercussions are Deadly. And so is cervical cancer. There's so many cancers that having had my husband had, [00:14:00] uh, colon cancer, my dad had, uh, lymphoma, and kidney cancer, renal cancer.
One of my best friends has ovarian and uterine cancer. So I have a crash course in some of these cancers, and they can be deadly if you don't catch them early. again, I'm not a doctor. I don't read medical literature. Maybe now that we're doing this podcast, I will, uh, you know, cause I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm feigning a lot of ignorance here.
But I can understand from one point that the medical community is saying this is such a horrific disease. i. e. cervical cancer. And we have found this that we could eradicate. We still don't have a cure for cervical cancer. , it's not an easy thing to find. And [00:15:00] once you find it, sometimes it's way too late. that, Oh, here's this thing. Here's this vaccine. This, we can just possibly eradicate this for, for women. I also didn't have my own baby. So I wasn't in that process of. Having this newborn and, oh, I'm okay, here's 72. I didn't have that. Again, I am ignorant, um, to most of this, uh, except for I know that measles is deadly and polio is deadly or debilitating.
And you know, my, my sweet niece had fucking whooping cough. Is it? She had it in November. Is this fucking 1852? What the fuck? She had whooping cough, and she's been vaccinated, but she got it. There are people on her basketball team that [00:16:00] weren't and had it, and she was coughing for, for weeks.
And finally she said to her parents, I need to go get tested for whooping cough. And they're like, what are you talking about? And they went to
Jolene: so how did she get it? If she was vaccinated?
Nicole: don't know. I do not know. I mean, that's a question, but all to say she went to the clinic and she got tested and they were like, you have whooping cough and the CDC called her whole family and said, you must be masked right now. You have to get the antibiotic because they're terrified that they're going to spread it. But how many of these kids, like, there's a huge outbreak in Utah and how many of these kids didn't go to the doctor didn't get diagnosed and are spreading it. I completely can as much as I can put myself in [00:17:00] another parent's position to like, Whoa, there's so much add ADHD.
There's so much, uh, autism and, and, I am all for, let's look at all this stuff. Absolutely! They're just talking about Tuberville, who I agree with nothing that man says. Except, he was now looking at the red dye. That is not in cosmetics anymore, but is still in food.
Jolene: Not anymore.
Nicole: okay, you know, right? I'm like, fine, dude, rock on.
okay, two things. By the end of this hearing, I was fairly impressed. With RFK, not about, he doesn't have a lot of basic knowledge about Medicare, Medicaid, like basic things. He's also so smart that I sort of like, well, he can, he can learn this. Okay. You know, he's not a medical.
[00:18:00] Professional, which I, again, I think and I feign ignorance. I don't know, or in feign ignorance. No, I am ignorant. I am ignorant about this. I
Jolene: You don't have to feign it.
Nicole: I don't feign it. I don't know. I never paid attention to who was the, you know, secretary of human health and services before. Right? I do know this man. RFK is really fucking smart, but I, these are the things that concern me.
He, Is a litigator, and he's been fighting against vaccines. Okay, fair, but are you going to benefit financially? Like, there is a lot of conflict of interest here that I get, I'm concerned about.
Jolene: And so what does he said about it when
Nicole: he didn't.
Jolene: He said that he was going to give all of that to his son and that he wouldn't, he would not profit from any of the existing
Nicole: Where did you hear that? I did
Jolene: litigations in his. Yes, it was in, [00:19:00] uh, it was in the hearing.
Nicole: But it's his son. Just like Trump. Like, they're all, like, in bed, like, you know what I mean, Joe?
Jolene: Oh, absolutely. No, I, I get it, but he did address it the concern is still there that he could. He could, you know, make policies that would still benefit his son. I mean, I mean, there is, there is that, but you can't, but he, you get somebody with that kind of background.
You can't expect them. I mean, don't you want somebody with that kind of background who has done this kind of work? Um, I think it would be hard to find someone who wouldn't, if, if that was the mission that they were on before they were nominated for this position. , you know, how do you turn that off?
Nicole: I'm so confused because there's certain things about him that I'm like, Oh my God, we have a, we really have a chance helping this country physically health and a health space. I don't necessarily trust [00:20:00] the people in this country only because are, our attention span is so short.
Now, hear me out a second.
Okay.
When people, they'll read a blurb and they'll, and then they'll just like make a blanket statement. And that's what concerns me because you and I are at least, yeah, Trying to understand like, we're trying to break through the noise.
Jolene: Okay. So tell me your concern is that people aren't. Smart enough to, to like dig in and make decisions for themselves?
Nicole: I just think we're in a culture right now and maybe it's human nature. I mean, it's been through history that people will idolize a leader, follow them to the ends of the earth. , and of course there are other people that then question it and try to, you know, rebel or, or tear down that [00:21:00] leader.
, But we are in a time now that, that he has so much influence and it's not just him. It's a lot of our leaders. They're addicted to power and I find it
Jolene: 100%.
Nicole: bit frightening.
Jolene: Yes, I would agree.
Nicole: And I'm, and I, and I say it on both sides, girl. I'm
not
Jolene: I agree.
Nicole: I'm not saying, because one thing that I will say in this six hour journey of watching these hearings, I'm just going to give a shout out.
May I give a shout out to people that I found impressive?
Jolene: Sure.
Nicole: Okay? John Cornyn, who's a Republican of Texas. I found him heartfelt. I found him sincere. I found him like the fact that he is, is passionate about, uh, helping mental illness and, and, and finding solutions. Totally down.
Uh, Dr. Bill Cassidy, your, [00:22:00] your senator from Louisiana, um, I found him to be, , kind and measured and thoughtful and concerned, really concerned.
, Lisa Murkowski. of Alaska. Again, she was very concerned about Native people. She was very smart, very measured. On the Democrat side, uh, Maggie Hassan, I don't know if I'm pronouncing her name right, uh, she's a Democrat from Washington, very impassioned. She had a moment, and she was in both hearings.
And day two, she got Very emotional and I was totally moved because there was getting this sense because that Democrats were very upset and emotional on day one. And I don't, I don't remember the guy's name. I think he's from North Carolina. He has a beard. [00:23:00] And he's a MAGA guy. He was like, you know, making it quite partisan, like, if he, he was a Democrat and you would have been for him and blah, blah, blah, just basically saying, you know, the only reason that you're saying no is because we like him was sort of the Cliff
Jolene: Oh, I did hear that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nicole: The next day, she was like, I, Take real, uh, I'm offense. I'm putting words in her mouth. Of what you're saying. I have a 36 year old son who suffers from severe cerebral palsy and she started to cry. And she was like, if you don't think , a day doesn't go by that. I wonder. What I did to my child or my body and it was really moving. No one said a word I thought wow that takes some real courage
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: This guy Ben I don't know how you [00:24:00] pronounce his last name. Luijan? Lu Luian? Luian? Uh, he's a New Mexican Senator.
Loved him. Lujan. Heartfelt. Loved him. Chris Murphy gave a really I like him from New Jersey. He gave really Interesting sound argument. And, um, Angela, also Brooks from Maryland gave a very interesting, uh, testimony or a, or argument about something that he said about that blacks should have a different , vaccine, , layout than whites, and she is black. And she was like, , how would my vaccine layout be different? And he didn't have an answer. And I thought that was. Quite interesting.
Jolene: Wow. Uh, so I'm glad that you said that because I'm glad you recognize those. Those senators, because so much back to your point that you made at the very top, so much of these [00:25:00] hearings are grandstanding and not, you know, not really trying to get questions answered, but just making statements and take their entire time making their own statements for political reasons instead of asking questions.
I wish these were not televised. I wish they would have these conversations without it being televised and it doesn't necessarily have to be behind closed doors. But when you have it televised I feel like so much of that as grandstanding like I
Nicole: Jolene, I was thinking about this, and this is completely not a liberal democrat view. There are no consequences. , he's under oath. Everybody fucking lies. And they have no problem lying. Which I find so shocking. I'm totally naive. And if they lie and they get confirmed, there's no accountability when they lie.
Like they'll go in and they'll do whatever they want. And the thing was, I [00:26:00] found troubling was he was like, I will do what Trump says. I'm like, what about your opinion?
Everybody liked you.
Jolene: that's what I wanted to say about when they asked him how, why his views have changed on abortion, that he used to be pro choice and now his answers are, I serve at the pleasure of the president. I will follow what the president wants me to do. And if the president is You know, wants to abolish late term abortions and, you sethe's going to set forth the agenda that the president has asked him to.
And I think so many times we're losing that during these confirmation hearings, that they do serve at the pleasure of the president and are being tasked to carry out what the president Um, and now, of course, they're still there as a resource for the president, I think, to, to be able to, to give advice and opinions and, , and that's why they're chosen because they know about that particular subject or that field or, you know, whatever it [00:27:00] is, but that is their job is to carry out what the president wants.
So even though he could say that he was pro choice. But that's not the way he's going to lead HHS in, you know, developing policies that are pro choice, because that's not what the president's asked him to do.
Nicole: I think what gives the liberal pause, though, is that it seems very, like, such a flip flop in order to get power.
Jolene: you're not flip floppingif you're putting youryour opinions aside, you're doing a job that you've been tasked to do. I'm sure it's like a military,
Nicole: but I'm suggesting that he's putting it aside so he can have the power.
here's the thing. If he had said, I am pro choice, but my boss is President Trump, and I will do what he says. What he wants. That's different. He didn't say that. And he didn't say that because there are so many people on the [00:28:00] right that wouldn't vote for him. That wouldn't confirm
Jolene: have said that,
Nicole: I just want, you know, he says he wants transparency. I want transparency.
Right? And so part of me was like, should they, should everybody take a lie detector test while they're doing this?
Jolene: Oh hell, we'd have nobody in Congress.
Nicole: exactly!
Jolene: Okay,
Nicole: liberal democrat, but that's, that's what I want.
Jolene: What did you think of, um, of Bernie and, um, Elizabeth Warren's questions?
Nicole: they're both so smart. and they're really pissed off. And I think it's a turn off to people.
Yeah.
Listen, I have a temper. I've always had a temper. , I'm very passionate person and I have learned in my now 55 years of being on the planet that if I want to get a point across, [00:29:00] I need to do my very best to stay calm.
Jolene: They're
Nicole: I am.
Jolene: Ha ha ha ha ha!
Nicole: I get really pissed off. I get really upset. I Cry. Like, I'm a human being, right? And I'm a feeler. And Bernie and Elizabeth are feelers. And part of me fucking loves it. I love their fire. And then there's part of me that goes, Oh, just, your points are so good. Just, just
Jolene: Settle down, settle
Nicole: Because you're, and I do the same on the right. When you just start screaming,
Jolene: Spewing.
Nicole: you stop, people stop listening. I've screamed my whole life. as a kid, I'd scream, I'd feel injustice, I'd scream, because you think if I scream loud enough, someone's going to listen. And they don't. [00:30:00] They shut down.
Jolene: Right.
Nicole: Right? I know we're going sort of long today. I wondered, should we talk about, like, what is it that surprised You, what I said and vice versa and, and what
Jolene: I loved that you loved John Cornyn and Cassidy, Bill Cassidy. , those are stalwarts of the Republican Party. They're not the ones that get up on the table and to, like you just said that, you know, want the sound bites, I really think they're thoughtful people that are really trying to do good things.
So that surprised me, but I'm, but I'm so glad to hear that.
Nicole: I'm just trying to be, um, just listen with open heart and open ears and not put my liberal, uh, lens on it immediately. I want to know what these people are saying and thinking about, obviously, I don't know these people.
I know what I saw and what I felt as I was listening to them [00:31:00] and, and that was an interesting experience to me versus being fed.
Jolene: Exactly. And I love, I love the fact that you sat down now and I get that people don't have, you know, six hours or they don't choose to, to spend six hours doing this, and to your point earlier about Americans, you know, get snippets and they take those snippets and then, then they, you know, pound on the
Nicole: and that becomes law,
Jolene: Well, they don't have enough time to, to dig into the information like you have, and so I think they are fed whatever media they, whether it's Tik Tok or if it's ABC or it's MSNBC or it's Fox News, that they only hear what their people, you know, are telling them, and that is their, that's their interpretation, so,
Nicole: you know, and I know that, you know, we're doing this and I'm a homework girl and so I delve into this stuff and I don't expect people to watch all six hours of the hearings, but [00:32:00] I do think it would be really helpful for all of us on the left and the right to start to Looking at not just what each other is saying, but the center, let's make our own decisions
Jolene: God,
Nicole: and not right.
And also let's be clear. And this is not a judgment. I fall into it. We are all sucked into social media. We all waste so much fucking time. We have time.
Jolene: yep.
Nicole: We have time. And I'm not even suggesting look at the news for an hour, or, like, go take a walk.
get off of it. And just, like, remember that you're a human in the world, and, and You know, listen to the bird or, or smile at the neighbor, like , we got to remember that, that we have the control
Jolene: Well, that, I think, is a great tie in to this whole RFK conversation. Because I think that's his point. [00:33:00] Is, we can't just let the government tell us what is best for us. We've got to have some control about what we think is best for our children, or our communities, . However, this is one thing I did want to get in here. Um, that RFK said. That I loved. He said, I'm not a scientist, but I want to empower scientists, and I want to make sure that science is unobstructed by economic interests, and that right there is the bottom line that so much of pharma and big food is all fun.
Nicole: You know, it has a financial interest in our political system, and, um, and it's really screwed things up for sure.
, let's hope that everyone is on board because money and power seem to still rule.
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: And there's a lot of moving parts for him to do what he is suggesting that we should do.
Jolene: Well, and I think this is, [00:34:00] this is truly just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, I think what he wants to do I mean, it's gonna be 10 years before any of this. I think before we really see a change. I mean, what is this? 2025?
Nicole: Well, and there will be different presidents and different cabinets and,
Jolene: Yeah. But I think we've at least got the conversation started to your point earlier.
This is not just a Republican and Democrat conversation anymore. This is people who are genuinely educating themselves on what their food is, what their health looks like, what's impacting and affecting their health. And their family's health and, you know, we could all need to be more educated.
Nicole: and I think it is one of the only topics that there's a lot of bipartisan support.
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: if not almost all,
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: that no one wants to be the sickest country,
Jolene: think about that.
Nicole: I mean, honestly, the amount of pharma [00:35:00] auditions I do as a voiceover artist, , the amount of this is a side note, but I might as well talk about it that.
It was getting to the point that the worse the drug, if you booked that job, the more money you would make. I'm gonna repeat it. The worse the drug was for you, the more money you would make.
Jolene: If you ever noticed, uh, we watch, , ABC news at night, um, with David Muir. , if you look at how many commercials are pharmaceutical commercials during a newscast.
Nicole: when I would watch MSNBC, your favorite, it's all pharma. It's all pharma. So then, like, thinking outside, or tying it all together, if all of the media is also beholden to pharma, what are we being fed? What are we [00:36:00] being fed?
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: Alright, girl.
Jolene: Oh, I'm so glad we talked about this.
Nicole: me too. I mean, we just, it was the tip of the iceberg, cause there's, it's too much. But it's something. should we play a little Would You Rather?
Jolene: Oh yes. Oh, I didn't prepare anything. Okay.
Nicole: Yeah, but you're so good at it, you've done it your entire life. I suck at it.
Jolene: Okay. Would you rather take a pill that would make you never have money worries for the rest of your life or take a pill that would never age you?
You would look exactly like you look right now for the rest of your life.
Nicole: This is an easy one. because I've already made that choice. And I don't need to take a pill to do it.
Jolene: No, that's the question. You can't analyze this. It's a would you rather.
Nicole: With all this pharma talk, I have to take a pill?
Jolene: Yep. You have to take a pill.
Nicole: I would rather not have money worries. Listen, this is a totally different [00:37:00] conversation, but being an actor and being in this world that I'm in and being a 55 year old female, where everybody has just f@#ked their faces up and I am as vain as the day is long and I have chosen not to.
And grappling with what that is
like and being called ma'am all the time and trying to embrace my lines and my you know, menopause hairs and all the things. It's, it's hard. It's really, really hard, and I'm also like, f@#k it. I want to age gracefully, and I want to love myself, and that's hard too,
Jolene: yeah,
Nicole: and All, like, through every phase, and be a role model to my nieces, and a role model to myself.
I am my hardest critic,
Jolene: yeah.
Nicole: and I just don't like the culture we're in, like, , why can't [00:38:00] old women be beautiful?
Jolene: Okay, good. I love it.
Nicole: Would you rather, have a sleepover with Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders? And why?
Jolene: Oh, Bernie Sanders. Cause I would just snuggle with him.
I think
Nicole: You love those old dudes! You just love
Jolene: an old man. I just think he'd be fun just to, just to, just to snuggle with and, and say,
Nicole: you, are you
Jolene: tell me I, what kind of a question is that? Hell yes, I'm serious.
Nicole: What would you do with Bernie at your, wait, what would you do with Bernie on your sleepover?
Jolene: We'd have a fire in the fire pit and we'd make s'mores and he would be all bundled up in his hat and his gloves and he'd sit there.
And what questions would you ask [00:39:00] him?
Like you said, he's smart, you know, and I think that he's been screwed by the Democratic Party, I would genuinely like to hear what he thinks of politics, the whole, you know, political machine,
Nicole: I like it. Can I go on that sleepover with you guys?
Jolene: Yeah, we might, we might invite you. I don't know, I'll have to talk to him and see.
Nicole: I have a, I have one of those
Jolene: Do you have one?
Nicole: course, you taught me how to dress Winters in
Iowa. I had no idea and you taught me. You're like, you don't have a coat. I'm like, no, no coat
Jolene: We went to Casual Corner, got you a, got you a cute little wool coat.
Nicole: hmm. Mm hmm with like epaulettes.
It was like total Janet Jackson. I fucking loved it I loved it. Ah,
Jolene: Oh, this is fun, my friend.
Thank you.
Nicole: I love you.
and uh I'll talk to you very, very soon. [00:40:00]
