Our take on dei rollbacks
Hold onto your hats, folks—we're about to tackle one of the most heated topics in the current US political landscape. Trump's recent rollback of DEI initiatives has set off a firestorm of reactions, and this topic is anything but simple.
You know what's fascinating? The sheer audacity of this move has created a natural experiment in corporate values. While some companies scrambled to follow suit and drop the initiative with vigor, giants like Costco, the NFL, and Apple stood their ground with a resounding "Thanks, but no thanks." It's like watching a high-stakes poker game where companies are betting on their principles—and consumers hold the winning cards.
Money Talks, But What's It Saying?
Enter the tech titans—Zuckerberg and his Meta empire—dancing the delicate dance between profits and principles. It's enough to make you raise an eyebrow (or both). Are these corporate giants really champions of change, or are they just following the money? When quarterly reports become moral compasses, you've got to wonder: Is this about progress or profits?
The Trump Card: Are We Missing the Point?
There's this tempting narrative that paints Trump as some kind of chaos-loving chess master. But Jolene brought up something that stopped Nicole in her tracks—are liberals sometimes seeing shadows where there aren't any? What if these decisions are simply campaign promises being kept, whether we like them or not?
The million-dollar question becomes: Is this a calculated strategy or just bold moves from a leader who's never been afraid to shake things up? The answer might be more nuanced than any of us want to admit.
Your Move: The Power of Choice
Here's the beautiful (and sometimes messy) thing about a free market—we all get to vote with our wallets. Whether you're doing a happy dance over the DEI rollback or planning your next protest, your choices matter. Companies are watching, and they're taking notes.
Think about it: Every purchase, every boycott, every social media share becomes part of a larger conversation about what kind of society we want to build.
Maybe the real story isn't about Trump's decision or corporate America's response. Maybe it's about us—everyday people making countless small decisions that add up to significant change. Whether you're Team DEI or Team Rollback, you're part of this unfolding story
So, what's your take? Are we witnessing the death of corporate diversity initiatives, or is this just another plot twist in America's ongoing journey toward equality? The conversation continues, and your voice matters more than you might think.
Let's keep talking, questioning, and yes, even disagreeing. Because that's how progress happens—one conversation, one decision, one action at a time.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
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[00:00:00]
Jolene: Hello, Nicole.
Nicole: hello Jolene. How are you doing today?
Jolene: I am good. How are you?
Nicole: I'm, I'm good. I am, uh, anxious for this topic.
Jolene: so today on, we've got to talk. We are discussing DEI diversity, equity, and inclusion, we don't have probably solutions, but we're going to just share what each of us have to say about this.
Nicole: Yeah, and you actually were telling me that you have benefited from these,
Jolene: yeah. And it's really for me, I'm a certified woman owned business. to go through that process is, was super tedious. '
Nicole: And what benefits do you get from being a woman owned business?
Jolene: Great question. So there are, in the past there have been a lot of corporations who have to do so much of their business, with a minority, , owned business and whether that's, [00:01:00] uh, gay and lesbian, women owned, minority owned, um, veteran owned. you know, there's a lot of, um, a a lot of different categories within that minority owned, but it's, you know, the underserved, populations of business owners.
And so it has been a great thing for me, and maybe I've gotten my foot in the door because I was a woman-owned business, at that point, and I, and I've been asked a lot of times too about being a woman owned business and, you know, what does that mean? And, and honestly, my answer every time is, I don't think it means anything for me because that's not, I don't think that has anything to do with my business. I think women do a lot of really good things from a business perspective, but that's a generalization and that's the women that I've worked with.
Nicole: Do you think that you've had any customers that were attracted to your product because you were women? Women owned?
Jolene: Absolutely. Because they have [00:02:00] asked, when you first introduce yourself, So, uh, does it get your foot in the door? Absolutely. what does it do beyond that if your product doesn't sell and if people aren't buying it? And if it's not, I mean it at that point, it's all up to you.
Nicole: So there's no financial benefit for being a woman. It's just putting, it's the moniker on your, on your cookie dough bar that says woman owned.
Jolene: Yep. but again. There are corporations that are going to be willing to work with you because they have to fill that quota. if they aren't choosing my product because on the merits of the product that it's good, it's gonna sell, you know, all the things, then um, it doesn't behoove them to have my product on their shelf.
Nicole: so when this, uh, rollback came out on day, was it one.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: What was your knee jerk reaction?
Jolene: I felt like it was a good move because I think that people and businesses. And organizations need to be judged [00:03:00] on their character and not the color of their skin or their national origin or their gender, or, I think we've come a long way in, in five years.
you could absolutely do anything in the United States of America. You could be president as a black man, or we've had a, a gay, you know, secretary of of transportation, you know, with Pete Buttigieg. I mean, I, I think that we need to shift our focus now to, I.
You know, United States of America, you can be anything that you want to be. And having organizations or governmental entities have to abide by a certain quota system to make you feel well-rounded, is, is, is fake, is false. It, it, I don't feel like it's genuine.
Nicole: I will agree with you on the point that it doesn't feel genuine and it's never felt genuine to me. When George Floyd was killed and it was like white people [00:04:00] woke up and realized that black people had a hard time, I found it embarrassing that it took us that incredibly horrible day. I do think that there were some very positive things that came out of it. Maybe some black, businesses like we, like how Target was really into their, nu nurturing, uh, black business owners. And we've talked about how much we love Tabitha Brown
Jolene: Yes, love, Tabitha.
Nicole: and that. I would imagine that there were a lot of entrepreneurs that were given a second, third, and fourth chance, not because they weren't talented, just because white people were like, oh, I guess we should pay attention to our black, brown, and Asian brothers and sisters.
Like I think when, when we talk about.
Jolene: about.
Nicole: [00:05:00] Meritocracy or being colorblind, it's really beneficial to the white person and can really hit hard on, black and brown communities, not because, they are not deserving. We just, we come with a certain amount of. Freedoms and privileges that we've always had.
You and I have always had from the moment we were born. I mean, we are women, so that is one thing that is against us. So it's not like we do understand that part. I'll only speak for me, but I know that you've had this where there's a little maybe of a dismissive tone. there are certain, workman people that completely dismiss me because I'm a woman. the women belongs in the home kind of stuff.
Jolene: okay. But I look at that right outta college, I was in medical sales and surrounded by men calling on men. Most of the team was men, blah, blah, blah. And I'm okay with that because it makes me stand out. It made me [00:06:00] different, it made them remember me because, oh, that was that female rep that came in, and whether they, if it was some greasy old, icky guy who was like, oh, I love that red suit that you have on.
And I'm like, Ew, okay. You're gross, first of all. And I, I, that literally happened to me,
Nicole: Of course it happened. I mean, ugh,
yuck.
Jolene: And like, oh.
Nicole: that we put up with absolutely.
Jolene: I loved it because I was in control. That meant that I was in control. I'm like, yeah, okay, that's your weakness I feel like when you say women, we are, that is the one disadvantage. That you and I have being a woman. I, I disagree. I think it's, I think it's an advantage even in the corporate world, I think that it is, like, okay, test me, try me. I want you to underestimate me because then I'll exceed your expectations now, that though is completely different from, a black owned business. my gosh, now we could even [00:07:00] go into our education system. And how, you know, uh, being an inner city kid growing up and your family, I, I, I mean, we could go really deep into why there needs to be advantages given or extra considerations given to someone who was not, raised in a middle class family and, didn't have the privileges that, we did.
I get that, but I also think that we're beyond that in, in our society now. I get, I get why LBJ did that back in 1965 because that was the whole affirmative action that Trump also got in hot water for, dismissing that with this executive action. Do you know about that? Okay,
so, so when he signed this executive action, he also, negated LBJs, Lyndon Baines Johnson's, um, 1965 affirmative action.
which I think was [00:08:00] also an executive order. and, and everybody was up in arms. About, oh, you've just cut off affirmative action. Well, actually, with that affirmative action, what, what LBJ did was to say, in 1965 mandated that affirmative action was to require government contractors be hired without regard of race, color, religion, national origin, blah, blah, blah.
but now that term affirmative action has kind of, has, has morphed more now into hiring people of, based on the color of their skin, their national origin, their religion, blah, blah, blah. So basically what Trump did with his, with this, um, executive order was get rid of, anyone being hired. Because of the color of their skin.
National origin, race, religion.
Okay, so gimme your knee jerk reaction. Sorry that was a lot.
Nicole: the knee jerk reaction It just seemed so [00:09:00] vindictive and like there's this feeling, I mean, the last couple weeks is just like, I'm taken over. I'm a big white man, and I'm bossy, and I'm taken over and I'm gonna undo everything that everyone else has done. and it just seemed mean.
Tabitha Brown on. She posted about, she's a target business and she's done wildly well. She's amazing. I love her so much. she wrote, sent a post that I think I sent to you a couple weeks ago, which I thought she had a really interesting take on it because all her, her people were, all of her followers I guess, were.
Texting her or writing her and saying, you know, what should we do? Should we boycott Target? And she was saying, how, I wouldn't. If you do that, then you're just going to show. Target that we can't sell our stuff. And [00:10:00] so I would suggest you actually just, no pun intended, but target your buying power in Target.
Like if you're gonna go support the businesses that you want to support, which I thought was incredibly smart, here's the thing, Jolene, and I'm not sure how to really articulate this, And again, I do think a lot of this has to come back to social media, uh, but I think our society as a whole has become so performative that I'm finding it exhausting, annoying, and I want us to try to fix it because So the DEI initiatives seemed to have started around when George Floyd was killed. So we as a country that I think still is a majority of white people, I don't know what the population, the, the numbers are. Um, we were like, oh my [00:11:00] God, us and our white shame, we better do something about it. And so these DEI programs are born versus. Actually, creating whatever our business was, let's say his target coming in from the get go, not having someone killed in front of us, but actually saying, you know, what the world would be. Or This company would be so much richer if we had all these different kinds of people who were all really smart, intelligent, creative, funny, interesting. and I think this is what you're saying but we don't do that. We just
create these, we?
as a society, what, what I think we did was a lot of times it was very performative. We post things on Instagram that we're, you know, we're with you or it wasn't sincere, it wasn't genuine, and that's why we're here.
I feel like and that's why Trump can say something and take, and it can [00:12:00] all crash down why everybody is like little scared bunnies and Target and this and that. They're going, okay, okay, sorry. We're gonna, and, and the White House is taking DEI out of the vocabulary, out of all the websites. I mean, it's just like whitewashing everything because nothing is really,
Jolene: okay, so let's go back to the whole, the, the Tabitha Brown example I love her. I think she's hilarious. If you don't know her, look up Tabitha Brown and, uh, all the things that she has done. But her point is no, the, the best way to combat this is to say, you didn't like me because I was a black woman who got into target.
You liked me because you respected me, you know, with my, you know, vegan recipes and then my, you know, my hilarity that I do with my hair and all the other things. Isn't that why, I mean, you didn't love Tabitha Brown because she was [00:13:00] black,
right?
Nicole: but I wonder if Target. Brought her on because of, of the time. 'cause all of a sudden they were like, oh my gosh, we don't really have any black owned businesses in this. We don't carry a lot of products. I think we sh we should start looking at that. I mean, she has made them so much money. People go to Target for her, not because she's black or white, just because she's totally amazing and she makes fun home goods and she's just a great loving spirit. But I do wonder, I mean, listen, she got her start because she'd posted a video about eating a vegan sandwich
on Whole Foods. I mean, that's, she's her own like amazing human person.
But I think we're a racist. I think we're a racist country. That's what I think. [00:14:00] And so if you have, if you're just based on, on meritocracy and you have two resumes and someone has, is, Brad Smith and someone is A name that isn't Anglo. They're going for Brad Smith.
Jolene: Who's going for Brad Smith?
Nicole: Most corporations.
Jolene: No. See, I think that's wrong. I think, I
Nicole: why are we here then? Jolene, that's my question. If you think that's wrong, why are we here?
Jolene: Because I think that we've come so much further. I think that we are a nation who absolutely loves the person who has worked their, you know, fingers to the bone, who's pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, who either came out of a privileged situation and have done really well and took the, the opportunities that they were given, um, and, and did really well for themselves.
Donald Trump or
Nicole: I was gonna say, I was like, Donald Trump has not pulled himself up. He was. He has not been. [00:15:00] He has been, oh my gosh. Jolene, when you live as a New
Jolene: He's the president of the United
Nicole: that. But he is not, he has had so many failed businesses. He is, he the people love a celebrity. They love
celebrity.
Jolene: also love people. We love a good comeback story, and we love someone who overcomes diversity or overcomes challenges.
Nicole: He has come over nothing.
Jolene: Oh, I'm not saying him in, in that, in that sense, but I mean, if you, so if you're
saying though that he's, he's had these businesses that failed, but now he's the president of the United States.
Oh my gosh. Good for him.
Nicole: oh girl. Good for him.
Jolene: I mean, a majority of the people in America think that.
Nicole: I wonder though. He's, he is done quite a number the last couple weeks and I've been seeing things. I mean, [00:16:00] listen, New York City is getting a lot of ice raids, like a lot. a lot of people that voted for Trump some were immigrants and they really believed that they were gonna just go after the people in the jails. Well, they're not. And now in these communities. They're pissed that they voted for him. Now. I think that was incredibly, uh, naive that they didn't, and, and then Christie Noam said, well, if you're in this country illegally, you're a criminal. She said it the other day, which I found disgusting.
Jolene: but it is true. You broke a law getting into the United States illegally, so.
Nicole: Yeah, but it's incredibly manipulative because all these Latinos in, in the Bronx voted for Trump believing that they're, they're neighbors. oh, it's not you guys. You're not in jail. And that they're now [00:17:00] clarifying once they're scooping people up, that they're, everyone's a criminal,
which I don't think is fair.
Jolene: I would disagree with you that, that they are treating everyone as a criminal. I think they're going after the, the gang members in Aurora, Colorado. they're going after the, that Venezuelan gang that, that we talked about. They're, they're finding those people now, if you happen to be in the apartment with a convicted, criminal, and you are his wife.
Uh, even if you are his pregnant wife and they're gonna take him to jail, but not her, I, I mean, she's with him. She knows who he is. I mean, I would, I would
Nicole: up people that are citizens. I have friends that have to carry passports now that are Latino and they're legal citizens of the United States, and they have to carry passports because they are not checking
Jolene: I, I mean, at what point.[00:18:00]
Nicole: Wait a minute. At what point
Jolene: You mean They're just, they're going up to anybody who looks Hispanic on the street and putting them in the back of a, of
Nicole: it, it's happened. It happened that first weekend.
Jolene: And so when they say no, here's who I am.
Nicole: They don't have their passports on them, so now my friends are carrying their passports.
Jolene: so even if you didn't have a passport though, I mean, could they, I mean, isn't that illegal to just, I mean, arrest somebody for without
Nicole: yes. yes. But I a lot, I mean, a lot of what's going on is illegal, like in general I mean, a lot of these DEI rollbacks are illegal as well.
Jolene: Well, we'll see. I mean, I think
Nicole: I think he's just trying to get away with what he can get away with. You know? I think he's always been litigious. I mean, as a person, he has no problem going to court. So, and a lot of times he wins and a lot of times he loses. So I think he's just trying to push as much as he can.
Jolene: There was, I'm gonna go back to what you said about people regretting voting for him. There [00:19:00] was a, a report that I just saw this morning. Um, it was a. Poll that was done by Reuters and Ipsos that 56% of Americans who voted for Trump are still happy with their choice.
40% not
I would still say that, I mean, there's gonna be bumps in the road, but I think a majority of the people that voted for him are happy with the things that he is done so far.
And right. It's gonna affect people different ways. I mean, you know, if you're somebody living in New York, you probably look at it differently than somebody who's living in Missouri, you
Nicole: of course. Of course.
Jolene: um, okay. So let's go back to, let's go back to DEI.
Nicole: Yes, we digress.
Jolene: Well, I, I think because so much of this stuff is, it's all related, you know,
Nicole: Well, it is all related. I mean, I, I feel like a lot of it has been window dressing. And a lot [00:20:00] of these companies that are rolling back probably weren't very sincere in the first place,
Jolene: the
DEI
Nicole: the DEI, yes. And that, you know, companies like Apple and Costco and the NFL are doubling down because they really believe in it. And just because the government is rolling back their initiatives, that doesn't, each company can decide what they want to
do.
Right. So that we can empower ourselves
and, right. so now that these DEI initiatives are rolled back, I think people are just reactive and scared and they're gonna then like, okay, cool. We don't have to do that anymore. Versus actually like, take a look inside and figure out what matters to them.
Jolene: what I interpret what you're saying is that, if you really feel strongly about helping minorities out in the business world or, In the organizations in your community [00:21:00] that it's really up to the individuals now, right? That the government is not going to dictate this anymore, or large organizations aren't going to dictate it.
Point being Tabitha Brown. It's up to us now to go and support her and go into Target, make a con, a conscientious effort to go into Target and buy her items, right? I mean, isn't that, and isn't that a free market society? That right there tells me that we don't need to have the government telling us what to do anymore.
Jolene: That if we wanna support someone by damn, go support them.
Nicole: but Jolene, if these companies, if these huge companies are, and the board of directors, are all like powerful white people that would walk through the world with this white lens, they're the ones that have the power to bring in smaller companies. do we just hope that they will still, even with the DEI rollbacks, that they'll still be curious and [00:22:00] look for, um, companies that are women owned and, and. Black and Brown and Asian owned, people need opportunity. I think that's what the issue is. And I think that's why people are so freaked out because now it's like, oh, well, you know, we don't have to give people
Jolene: opportunity Isn't that why all these immigrants are coming to the United States? United States is the country of opportunity.
Nicole: it was, but now we're throwing them back on buses across the way,
girl.
Jolene: the point is though, that ouch. Dang.
Nicole: I mean, listen,
Jolene: No. But now the United States
Nicole: I want it to be the,
land of opportunity. I really do.
I
Jolene: gosh. We absolutely are.
Nicole: no, I want, I want to agree that we are, right now, I feel like we are telling the world that we are hateful, close-minded. [00:23:00] Bigoted we're like, guess what? You don't belong here. Get back on the bus.
Jolene: Oh, I disagree. I think that we are like, we don't need. We don't need to have quotas anymore. We absolutely feel like everyone, anyone can make a difference in this in our country. And I bet you ask any immigrant who has crossed the border, that is exactly why they came here. And so why do we have to, why do we have to dumb this down and say.
oh here, women owned business, you need help. 'cause you can't do it by yourself. Hmm. You're just a little girl.
Nicole: well, I agree with that. I agree with that because I think it is condescending and patronizing.
Jolene: Yeah, absolutely.
Nicole: I, I, listen, I listened to this, black man, His name is, um, Vince Everett Ellison, and he is a conservative writer in the Republican Party and he has a podcast and he was real mad [00:24:00] about DEI and he calls it didn't earn it. He hates DEI Now he is real, right?
And I listened to that podcast and I was like, okay, okay.
Jolene: I am so proud of you for listening to that podcast.
Nicole: of course I did. He thinks that's a total insult and nobody wants to be called a DEI hire. Of course they don't.
Jolene: right.
Nicole: I think that there are businesses that wanna be seen and wanna platform, and I think sometimes these programs allow people to open up their eyes and go, oh, okay,
Jolene: I still think that's there. That's still going to be there. I honestly think that we have come so far in the last five years even
Nicole: but even like the idea of this, you know, again, it's naive, but This melting pot, this free to be you and me, that we all come together in all different colors and all different genders and all different, [00:25:00] experiences and all different economic backgrounds. And when you come and you get together and you share ideas that we could be so cool and interesting and strong and creative and not be this like vanilla world
Jolene: Yeah, I think we're so past that.
Nicole: I don't look at, look, look, at our president and his co-president, Elon Musk, that I, that's my topic I wanna talk about. Not today, but holy moly, we did not elect that guy. And it is white guy, white guy, and he is, he is a fricking immigrant. Is he even a citizen?
Jolene: Oh my gosh. Are you a birther? Are we going to go now back to the Obama years and go, oh,
I applaud the, the elimination of DEI because I, I, think those companies that wanna stand by it, if you are someone [00:26:00] who believes that Costco is doing the right thing by doubling down or the NFL or, or, Apple then support those businesses because we live in a, in IN a free market society, a free market economy, that you have the choice to, like you said earlier, you have the choice to put your money behind those businesses and those organizations that believe in the values that you do
Nicole: But it just felt really gross to me. Jolene, like, like, like the whole meta thing that, ugh, Zuckerberg, where it's all money to these corporations, and they're like, okay. there's like, we're dropping everything LIKE As soon as he says it. Okay. You know, whether they're afraid of Trump, they're afraid of the repercussions.
they just are greedy. Like, it doesn't feel like anyone has any ethics. It's like, yeah, cool.
We did that
for AWHILE
Jolene: but you don't have any basis to say that like this is I, I think this is something that I'm starting to learn that sometimes liberals, and I'm [00:27:00] obviously using this is a generalization, but sometimes I feel like liberals. Conjure up something in their head that Trump's just sitting there going, oh, how else can I screw you?
I mean, right. Isn't that exactly what you just said? Like,
Nicole: Yes. 'cause he is. Because he is.
Jolene: So there's a never going to be room for him to make really smart, calculated decisions and the people that surround him, giving him the benefit of the doubt that that people around him. Are advising him to make, decisions.
And, and by the way, all things that he campaigned on and the reason he got elected, I mean, these were all things that he said he he was going to do, and now he's doing 'em.
Nicole: Right, And you guys won everything. And there was a lot of people that voted for him. I didn't, you know, I think that some of the people that are, he's surrounding [00:28:00] himself with, are pretty good. I think Marco Rubio was a good choice. I think Bergham, I think, but, but people like Steven Miller, I think he's dangerous.
I didn't vote for him. Neither did you.
Jolene: how come the liberals are not talking about the fact that we have the first female chief of staff?
Nicole: Oh, I heard about that.
Jolene: You heard about it. My gosh. She's the chief of staff.
Nicole: Listen, let me tell you something. I was just listening to the daily. Most Democrats and liberals, they are licking their wounds. They are just like paralyzed on the ground. you and I are talking, but most people are just so, they're just gutted and they're like trying to wake. They're trying to wake up.
They're like, what do we do?
Jolene: I mean, the chief of staff absolutely runs everything,
filters everything.
Nicole: agree with
you
Jolene: could be the mo, she could be the most powerful woman in the United States right now, and [00:29:00] no one's talking about
it.
Nicole: know why, you know, why is no one talking about it? Because there is so much. There's like every moment there's another shit show. And so that's so the woman is not getting the attention. Like the Gaza thing is major. They keep talking about like it's major. Everybody's freaking out on the left, just freaking out.
Jolene: that's another topic. Do you think people aren't talking about it? Because they a, don't wanna talk about it. They don't want to admit that this was a, you know, that this is a, a powerful woman, or B, that it's really not that big of a deal.
Nicole: I think at sea, I think everyone is just so completely overwhelmed that they don't even notice what's happening.
Jolene: she was. Hired before the inauguration. so why wasn't it talked about then?
maybe. Because it doesn't matter. I mean, honestly, it doesn't matter that she's a woman or if she were black or if she were a lesbian, or if she [00:30:00] were,
Nicole: the reason I heard about it was because they were saying that a third of, uh, Trump's cabinet is women, and that was, is much more than his first term. And
Jolene: okay, so then maybe. It doesn't matter. And DEI doesn't matter because maybe it's the best people for the jobs and it's not because of their race or their sexual orientation or
Nicole: No, no, no. He will never, ever, ever, ever hire a trans person, ever. I.
Jolene: that's a whole nother topic.
Nicole: And
also, I don't think Pam Bundy is the, is the best person for the job.
Jolene: Is she better than Matt Gates? Yes.
Nicole: Yes.
Jolene: Okay.
Nicole: But we'll see. We'll see. I'm gonna give her the benefit of the doubt.
Jolene: Thank you.
Nicole: Yes, I will do that for you and me. [00:31:00]
Hey everybody. This was a hard one. This is a hard one.
Jolene: This was
hard.
Nicole: This was not fun and this was difficult. I mean, not that they're all not difficult, but this was like. you know what I'm
Jolene: yeah. yeah. Yep. I know. Okay. So let's talk about, um, what surprised you was something that I said today.
Nicole: that you think that we've come so far because we've had a black president that we shouldn't have to think about color anymore.
Jolene: okay. the thing that surprised me was that you just found out that Susie Wiles was, I don't even know if it's Wiles Willis. I'm not even
sure.
Nicole: you
got See you. You don't even know her name.
Jolene: I don't even know her name. Here's the thing. I don't [00:32:00] think a lot of people know about her 'cause she's just, she's always been in the background
Nicole: all I hear about is that little 27-year-old girl who's the um,
Jolene: Oh, she's fantastic.
Nicole: oh, I think she's the worst.
Jolene: Oh my gosh.
Nicole: She's, first of all, she's a child. What is she
Jolene: does she do even now? impressive that she is so young. And is able to be the White House spokesperson.
Nicole: Well, we'll see how long that lasts.
Jolene: Uh, she's doing a fantastic job so far.
Nicole: Do you think that we're going to have another black president or woman president in our lifetime?
Jolene: Oh yeah,
Nicole: You really do. I.
Jolene: yeah, Don't we? Isn't our Secretary of Treasury, isn't he gay?
Nicole: Well, that's good.
Jolene: again, I think that's why we don't, you don't have to have DEI, let's have the people who are best suited for the job. Oh, they happen to be gay, or they happen to be a woman, or they happen to be black. then, that's an added bonus.
Nicole: But here's the thing, [00:33:00] do you really think that Trump is the best person for this job?
Jolene: No.
Nicole: Okay,
Jolene: no. No. You
already know.
Nicole: right. So that's, so that's where I get a little bit like, what,
Jolene: But it was our choice. It was the only choice that we, we had two choices.
Nicole: But why was it the choice y'all? He has power. Like no, like I, like we've never seen.
Jolene: He is getting stuff done.
Nicole: making some messes. Time will tell.
Jolene: Okay. Would you
rather.
Nicole: Would you rather have the ability to see 10 minutes into the future or 150 years into the future? I,
Jolene: Oh, Nicole, this is the best one you've ever had. Head.
Nicole: well that's 'cause it's not mine 'cause I looked one up. Uh, I made huge lists. I made huge lists. 'cause of course I'm really trying to avoid being super dirty, which is where I wanna go.
Jolene: I know. [00:34:00] Okay.
I'm
gonna have to go with 10 minutes because then, I mean, if it was always every 10 minutes,
Nicole: I don't, th I don't know. I don't know if it's always, I thought it was once, but maybe it's always, Like, why would you want it that way? Tell me if you that
Jolene: Um, because then I think, well, because then you can always, you would always prevent something,
Nicole: Yeah, but that's kind of a yucky way to live.
Jolene: but could you really prevent it if it's gonna happen?
Nicole: don't know.
Jolene: Ah.
Nicole: I mean, is it the butterfly effect where if you like, you could change the outcome
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: or it's just destiny and you just, oh my God,
Jolene: it.
Nicole: is, you have to see it. And if you chose the other, if you chose 150 years into the future, would you, would that make you change what you're doing now to try to change 150 years in the
Jolene: okay. Would you rather have all of your fingers cut off
Nicole: Oh God. Oh [00:35:00] God. Oh God.
Jolene: like you don't feel it? But I mean, would you, would you rather be without all your fingers or without all your toes?
Nicole: Uh, I guess my fingers,
Jolene: Really?
Nicole: because your feet, you need your toes to walk.
Jolene: Yeah, but don't you need your fingers to do everything else?
Nicole: I'll have pause. I'll have little paws and I'll figure out how to, I'll still be able to ski and I think so, and I think you can figure out maybe how to write and. It would suck. I don't want either of these
Jolene: I know that's, that's, I know that's why you play the Would you rather game?
Nicole: Listen, I think we should do dirty instead. This is sad and morbid and we're, this has been a sad conversation. Oh, girl.
Jolene: These are such hard conversations, but I also think that they're really good for us to be able to articulate our gut and our heart. I, [00:36:00] I just, I think that, that, I think that that's productive.
Nicole: One thing that you said, that was important. I thought for you to say that I realized, oh shit, I'm doing this is, said, oh, we're women, so we don't have, we have that against us. Which is a really bad mindset, I think.
I mean, I love being a woman I've never felt less than, I've never felt like I can't do anything. Um, when I've auditioned for things that the prototype was a man, I'd be like, watch out. I'm gonna book it, and I would book it, I love being a woman and I love being in my skin, and I don't ever feel. That it's, it's a hindrance. So I just wanna say that because I
think in this DEI conversation, I think it would be helpful to all of us, no matter [00:37:00] who we are or how we identify or what the color of our skin is, that don't forget how valuable you are,
Jolene: 100%
completely agree.
Nicole: tell you, don't let the government.
Don't tell a company. Don't tell. Let anyone tell you that you are not beautiful and capable of doing incredible things.
Jolene: and, and I agree with you because I don't think you need to have a quota system.
Nicole: I think we need opportunity. I think everyone needs opportunity and, and, and. Yes, I think we all wanna live in a place where we all feel that we earned it. We all, we don't want handouts. We all wanna feel we've earned it and that our, we are, we are valuable and that, and that we've not only been invited to the party, but we are, they want us to stay and, and be the best we can be.
I think that that's, [00:38:00] that's something that we can agree on.
In this complicated conversation.
Jolene: I agree.
Nicole: If you listen this long, God bless you. Um, even though I'm not the God lover, Jolene is. Um,
but I can. Yeah. There you go. Um, that was good. That was good.
