Religion, Identity & Social Media: Having IMPOSSIBLE Conversations in 2025
Some topics feel impossible to discuss in 2025. They're too loaded, too painful, too complex. Today's episode starts off by tackling one of the most challenging: the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Through Nicole's personal journey as someone with Jewish heritage, we explore what happens when identity, politics, and humanity collide. No easy answers, just real conversation about issues that matter.
For Nicole, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict isn't just headlines - it's personal. Growing up with a Jewish father and a Christian mother meant straddling two worlds, never quite belonging in either. Jewish enough to feel the sting of antisemitism, but not Jewish enough by traditional standards to be fully embraced by the community.
It took experiencing blatant antisemitism at the University of Iowa to force a reckoning with this part of her identity. Suddenly, defending Jewish heritage became personal, even while questioning where she actually fit into the equation.
Beyond Black and White
Living in New York City shattered any illusion that this conflict could be reduced to simple solutions or clear villains. The reality? It's a tangled web of history, trauma, and human suffering on all sides. Both women acknowledge a truth that often gets lost in heated debates: advocating for human rights doesn't require choosing sides.
When Social Media Makes Things Worse
In an age where everyone's expected to take a public stance, silence gets interpreted as complicity. But what happens when a well-intentioned post becomes a weapon? Jolene learned this lesson firsthand many years ago when she posted about the result of a midterm. It wasn’t meant to offend anyone and was simply an excited post, but it nearly fractured friendships. The question remains: Is social media helping or just deepening divides?
The Human Cost
Strip away the politics, the religion, the historical claims, and what's left? People. Families. Communities. Dreams interrupted by conflict. Both Nicole and Jolene agreed wholeheartedly that behind every statistic, every headline, every protest sign, there are human beings worthy of dignity and peace.
Here's what becomes clear: understanding doesn't mean agreement. It's possible to acknowledge multiple truths simultaneously. To recognize historical injustices while working toward future peace. To hold space for different sides of the coin while seeking common ground.
How do you navigate these complex conversations in your own life? Have you felt pressure to take sides? The discussion continues on Instagram and our YouTube channel. Sometimes the bravest thing we can do is listen to perspectives that challenge our own.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Good for the Soul:
https://www.instagram.com/lalshareef/
LINKS:
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[00:00:00]
Nicole: Well, hello Jolene. I love your stripy pink situation.
Jolene: love your cute little hair up like that. You're adorable.
Nicole: here, but Norm, I like to wear a top bun, but with the headphones, it's, it's got its own thing happening here. But, um, thank you friend.
Jolene: You're always so cute.
Nicole: Oh my God. Same. Same. we just recently did a, your questions answered, and it was basically all of my liberal friends wanting to ask questions.
They had bombarded me lovingly bombarded me. Please ask Jolene this. Please ask Jolene this. Um, and, uh,
Jolene: conservative
Nicole: what, what's she thinking? and then. At that time the only criticism was, Nicole,
Jolene: because everybody loved you.
Nicole: Stop swearing you sailor. Um, but now you might have some questions.
Jolene: I do have questions for you. Okay. so it was two different people, but they had the same question. [00:01:00] generally speaking, they are interested in what you identifying as having a Jewish background.
Think of, the politics surrounding, you know, Israel right now, um, versus the Palestinians. the way that the pro-Palestinian movement has really developed into an antisemitism, um, movement. may be emotional for you. This may hit hard. I don't know. I don't know how you feel about it, so if there is something that you want to talk about, I wanna give you that opportunity to answer that question.
say what you're comfortable with and we take it from there.
Nicole: it's obviously an incredibly loaded topic, and we have thought about talking about the Israeli Palestinian conflict in general on this podcast, haven't felt confident enough, just understanding the history
Jolene: Mm-hmm.
Nicole: a, it's a [00:02:00] very complicated. Multilayered history.
I don't think a lot of people actually understand how complicated and layered the history is.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: I, as you know, have a Jewish father. I had a Christian mother was raised with holidays, and I didn't really identify as anything. when my parents separated, wanted us to choose. And I, sorry Linda, I was like, fuck off. Like, to me that was a way to, uh, like put pressure on me and I didn't, I was not. Interested in choosing a side between my mom and my dad. that being said that when I got to the University of Iowa, I was very curious about, uh, western religion basically both sides of me. I started academically into that [00:03:00] world, um, and ended up, uh, taking many classes. an emphasis in Holocaust literature.
I found myself at the University of Iowa where there were like eight churches per block. I mean, it was so many churches. There was like one synagogue in all of Iowa City. Professor Holstein was like a beloved professor. , and he taught the Quest for Human Destiny, which was one of my favorite,
classes. it's been strange being me.
because I've never been accepted as a Jew and I've never, and I've also been excused that I'm not a Jew,
my dad is Jewish. um, most Jews will say. Well, you're not Jewish because your dad is Jewish, not your mother.
Jolene: and that's because Mothers I, you identify with your mother's religion. Uh, generally speaking in the Jewish [00:04:00] community. Okay.
Nicole: Correct. which I always felt like, huh, well, if I was in the Holocaust, I'd be dead too.
But I wouldn't be accepted. I'm not accepted necessarily in the Jewish community. And then I felt myself, in the early or the late eighties and early nineties at the University of Iowa, there was antisemitism and I felt myself become Jewish.
Jolene: Hmm.
Nicole: I wasn't, but I felt that I needed to defend. My people or
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: and then there would also be this thing of like, people that were antisemitic, they might say something antisemitic and I'd say, oh, well, my dad's Jewish. And then they go, oh, you're not really Jewish.
Jolene: Oh wow.
Nicole: so it was like, I've always felt it on both sides.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: Living in New York, that's totally different. Like I've never, there's so many Jews there. I don't identify, I, I, [00:05:00] I'm just who I am.
On October 7th, it was an absolutely brutal, horrifying day I feel like people have forgotten actually never noticed or acknowledged or talked about, as a feminist, , many women were raped and mutilated and we don't talk about that. , and that makes me really angry, this whole me Too movement. And I've had my own, uh, experience, which. You very intimately know about. I cannot believe that we have forgotten about those women, on that day, that we aren't just running in the streets angry as to how is this okay? It's so layered, bibe, like he was siding with the right wingers, Netanyahu, and [00:06:00] he was possibly gonna go to jail and he wants to stay in power and he starts bombing the shit out of the Palestinians in retaliation. And very quickly it became about all the innocent people that were dying in Gaza, which I also believe was not okay. Before October 7th, Saudi Arabia and Israel were getting along and Hamas, the, one of their fundamental, , principles, founding principles is they wanna annihilate the Jewish people
Jolene: Right.
Nicole: Right. Just hands down. So that didn't, that didn't bode well. The, the Arab countries were starting to actually work together, get along. Hey, the Israeli's. Okay. And then Hamas comes in. He creates this, this massacre They had no idea they were gonna get away with what they got away with, but what they got away with was F like so [00:07:00] incredibly like crimes against humanity.
So brutal. So awful. And then I believe that BB. In order to stay in power, in order to appease the right wing government in Israel that has had a, that was starting to have power. have to just annihilate, , the Palestinian people because Hamas hides within Hamas is not pro-human. they don't care
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: no
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: the Palestinians say, no matter what. Like, they don't care. And so when the students start uprising,
Jolene: At Columbia University. Yes. As.
Nicole: when they're, when you're, young and you're, you're learning about the world and you can't believe the injustice. seeing the horrible destruction of the Palestinian people and then blaming the [00:08:00] Jews. here's the other thing, when you're in college. You're also seeking and you wanna belong
Jolene: Mm-hmm.
Nicole: be a part of something. And so I am not against the people protesting
Jolene: To say.
Nicole: we need to do this a different way. But when they're also cultural appropriating and wearing scarves and, and covering masks, and they start disrupting classes and harassing Jewish students. What the fuck? Like, this is not going to help anybody solve anything. and Hamas is getting what they want. and I guess like. Jews have been persecuted since the beginning of time.
Jews aren't the only ones. don't know if I've made myself clear destruction has happened to the Palestinians is not okay to me. I am pro human.
Jolene: But [00:09:00] didn't Hamas need to be taken out?
Nicole: they aren't, I don't know how you, here's the thing, I don't know how you do it, because they don't care. Like they are using their people. They don't care. how does one take them out when they're using human beings as shields? I agree with you, but I don't know how you do it. they bank on you not knowing how to do it. Right?
Jolene: By hiding under schools and preschools and hospitals and,
So when you see the, the demonstrations at, at Columbia University in New York, do you give them some grace that they're just college students trying to, um, figure themselves out in a world and they've been misguided. Or does it hurt you to the core that they are advocating for the death and destruction of [00:10:00] Israel and and Jewish people.
Nicole: I think both. I give them grace because I think, They are starved to belong. They're starved to connect, and they're starved to believe in something where I don't give them grace is when they, 'cause I I, it happened in New York last summer. Josh had a company softball game we were then walking to this bar afterwards to meet colleagues and there were these protesters and there were these kids covered up with running with their Hamas flag. And that's when I'm like, that's different If you're protesting against the violence and the destruction of human beings, I'm in. but Hamas is not, Hamas is actually trying to, like, when you're running with the flag, do you know what that means? If you do know what that means, we've got a problem
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: and you're like, for it. Now I [00:11:00] believe in free speech, Hamas is a terrorist group.
Jolene: Right. So how do you, okay, so then how do you feel about the arrest of, and possible de Yeah. Deportation of the Mastermind behind the,
Nicole: The mastermind that is,
Jolene: well, of the Columbian, well, the, I would say the mastermind of the Columbian, um, protests.
Nicole: don't, I don't,
Jolene: Wait, do you agree with that? Do you think he was, I mean, he's the leader of the protests at Columbia University.
Nicole: I mean, supposedly,
I listened to Tangle Today about, it was a long conversation 'cause that's what they do on Sundays. And, you know, I am absolutely a believer in free speech. don't know what the, uh, laws are about. A person with a green card what kind of rights they have. And he's married to a United States citizen.
He's about to have a United States citizen [00:12:00] baby.
Jolene: I didn't realize all that.
Nicole: wife is eight months pregnant and. He has been, detained, and with limited access, when the government says, I don't like this. I don't like what you said, so I'm going to deport you, I think we're in trouble.
Jolene: Okay, but Tom Holman, , likened it to yelling, fire in a theater, in a crowded theater. You, you know, we do have free speech, but we also have limits to what is acceptable and, it's illegal to. Y yell, fire in a crowded theater. So isn't that the same? for you to be, supporting the people that took two babies?
They strangled the babies to death with their hands. They videotaped it and they took those babies through the street, babies through the street. there's no way to [00:13:00] support movement. There's nothing to support there.
Nicole: yes, I agree with you completely. of Khalil, I don't know enough about what he did, what they have on him.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: I know he's Palestinian. I know he was protesting the violence against his people. I can also get down with that. Is he pro Hamas? I don't know if he isn't pro Hamas. Then he, I don't think he should be deported.
Jolene: What if he is, do you think he should be?
Nicole: I just don't understand why you're pro Hamas.
Jolene: But there are, we've seen, and you're gonna ask me, and I don't know where I saw it, but it was a confrontation. It was at a, city council meeting. It was something a Palestinian woman. Was saying, I am pro Hamas. And he said, so you believe that all Jews should be killed?
And she goes, yeah. I mean, that's what I believe.
Nicole: we're talking about what someone says and what someone [00:14:00] does. and free speech is incredibly important in this country. I mean, fundamentally, I'm not in disagreement with you. I don't want another Holocaust.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: I, I don't want another Holocaust for anybody.
Jolene: Yeah. For any race, any religion, any, yeah.
okay, I'm going to jump over to the fact that people put out on social media their opinions. When someone posts something on Facebook, and they are espousing their political views on Trump is a faring idiot and blah, blah, blah. What's your opinion of that?
Nicole: About people putting their political views out
Jolene: Yeah. Yes.
Nicole: you're asking me personally, don't love it. if it's well written and maybe has an interesting point then I'm, I'm [00:15:00] curious cause I'm a big LinkedIn person for my work
Jolene: mm-hmm.
Nicole: and when politics gets on LinkedIn, I'm, I don't like it.
Jolene: So, alright. So then you would agree, I think that, it's your post, it's your platform. You can say whatever you want. Right? Right. I mean, I guess I feel the same way, right? I mean, whatever, but.
Nicole: that Facebook seems to, they thrive on that world. So does Twitter and,
Jolene: Yes. So has your opinion ever been changed by someone that, um, posted something on social media?
Nicole: well, again, this is to, it totally depends, but you had recommended that. Instagram, account, uh, America the Possible.
Jolene: Mm. Yeah,
Nicole: uh, he teaches you about the constitution, like one microbit at a time, he
Jolene: yeah, yeah.
Nicole: yeah, like those kind of very thoughtful. sometimes with the free press [00:16:00] says or tangle says,
Jolene: Okay. Okay.
Nicole: about an individual person,
Jolene: That's what I'm referring to.
when people post, I hate Trump because of this, this, and this. Or, I hate Biden because of this, this, and this, I feel like it's so. Immature. So in 20 10, 15 years ago, I posted something on, I'm sure it was Facebook, um, and said, uh, so glad that America finally, saw the error of their ways and voted Republican for the midterms. Wahoo, something to that effect, I'm sure.
And. another coach's wife on our staff said, you know, you really offended another wife with your post. And I said, well, it's just the way I felt. And she goes, it doesn't matter. No one cares how you feel. I mean, you feel the way you feel, that's great, [00:17:00] but when you put something on social media, you know that you risk offending someone else that you love.
And I went. I felt like it was, it was a post like, yes, wahoo. Yeah, here we go. And I never thought about it affecting someone that I love being offended. Like it never, it never entered my mind until she pointed it out to me. And then I felt so bad, like I had. Offended. I, I don't know that I ever posted anything after that.
I mean, I'd have to go back and look at my Facebook. I don't know that I ever, because I probably thought of you, I, I probably thought of, Several liberal friends who Why do I have to be in your face and be like, well, we're the winners and you're the losers. He, he, right, because I feel like then I've absolutely just offended someone that I don't wanna offend.
And I, I think, I'm trying to bring this all back full [00:18:00] circle. If you are still posting stuff on social media going, ha ha, so glad that. Um, y'all that voted for Trump and the stock market's crashing, I hope your portfolio sucks right now. I hope you're losing millions of money right now. Ha ha. And I'm just like, why do you want to offend somebody?
Do you think that posting that number one, will get people to go and now I like you better because you said that you are a good person. No, right? Am I looking at that right?
Nicole: I think social media is stupid.
Jolene: Okay.
Nicole: listen, social media is helpful so that we can like promote our podcast.
and connect to people that you can't necessarily connect to. And that part's the cool part. But when social media started, I don't know if we talked, I think we talked about it, one of the episodes about like Facebook and people would post what they were eating.
Like who gives a shit?[00:19:00]
Jolene: Oh, I do, uh, I do.
Nicole: Okay, good. Fine. like it's become like of like, why do we fucking care about any of it?
Jolene: Sorry, Linda.
Nicole: Sorry, Linda, like why? And yet people feel this impulse or compulsion to share everything that they're thinking about.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: I would give you some grace, uh, that we're also now in this culture that everyone's so fucking offended
Jolene: about everything
Nicole: I don't know, it's boring.
Jolene: Toughen up Well, and it's just, just, I don't think it's productive. Right? You're not solving for an issue.
Nicole: and you were having a moment of excitement for your future because the people that you believed in were voted in. it's your prerogative to do it again. okay. She's offended. She could talk to you as like a grownup and [00:20:00] say, Hey, can we talk about this?
Jolene: But I think, I don't think it was that she was offended. She was really hurt because she had worked for, um, Obama and
Nicole: Uh,
Jolene: I mean, she was, she, I think was, had a vested interest. And so, I mean, I get.
Nicole: Yeah,
Jolene: I, I get it Wasn't that she was just offended, it was that she was genuinely hurt and that someone that she loves meaning me.
I think that I would say something so hurtful,
Nicole: Which of course you didn't mean to, it was not even directed at her. It was just an
Jolene: right?
Nicole: it was just a feeling that you were having.
Jolene: Here's the thing. I never thought about what someone who doesn't agree with my opinions would think or I, or that I was afraid of offending them. And I think that I'm, I'm bringing this all back full circle to the protests and the pro Hamas. have we lost our way so much that we don't care what we say?
Whether it be in a [00:21:00] protest at the University of or the Columbia University, or if it's on Facebook that you feel like your, the way that you feel needs to be publicized and you don't care about offending anyone else. I mean, the answer is obviously yes. We, there are people who don't care about offending someone.
Nicole: Well, and, and you know, I don't think you're gonna like me bringing this up, but I feel like when Trump ran for office and he started saying some pretty hateful things, it started.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: it wasn't happening before him, but he was highlighting a different way to behave and giving permission to be hateful or to be offensive or like that's the new way we
Jolene: Yeah. Do you think he's gotten better though this time?
Nicole: Oh,
Jolene: I just thought of this. I'm, I'm not trying to bait you or anything. I just don't feel like he's made those kind of comments like he used [00:22:00] to.
Nicole: I don't know. like the fact that like. Zuckerberg that there's no more fact checking. Like all of these things to me are married together. This sort of sense of I can say whatever I want,
Jolene: Mm-hmm.
Nicole: whatever I want and I don't give a shit if it hurts you, hurts anybody. This is me, me, me. And this is what I get to say.
I think it's all of our loss and I think social media, I don't know if it, if it birthed this idea of like, everyone has a platform every, like, everyone's important. But I think Trump certainly, you know, emboldened people to, be as brash as possible without any thought of consequences. Or hurting someone. I mean, we talked about it before, I think on the the first [00:23:00] episode, about like what you experienced that we're in this society now, this situation where people don't actually understand that we are human beings on the other side of the screen and that what you say hurts us
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: us or scares us, that things have consequences.
Jolene: So I think it, it comes back to whether it's social media or you know, somebody protesting on a college campus, are you really changing someone's view if you are just spewing hate and not having, really intellectual conversation? Yeah, with respect.
Nicole: no, obviously not.
Jolene: Okay, let's do something lighthearted like play. Would you rather
Nicole: Oh, wait, wait. Can I
Jolene: Yeah. Oh, yes.
Nicole: it ties into the Israeli, uh, Palestinian, Question you had.
Jolene: Okay.
Nicole: So [00:24:00] this is an Instagram handle. It's L-A-L-S-H-A-R-E-E-F. That's L-A-L-S-H-A-R-E-F-F. He is a Arab Muslim and he's promoting peace through a love of languages and history. He posts an Arabic, English, and Hebrew, And he is so smart and knows, knows what's what about what's going on over there. he, peace. And I think a really insightful, important, account to follow so that we can all try to begin to understand what's really going on see. Each side as human.
Jolene: I love this. Um, you had sent me something, you had sent me the thing that, um, they were sitting out on the, on the wharf. [00:25:00] doing some stuff. Okay, but I'm just flipping through here. Now, here's a post on March 5th, um, standing alongside, an American Christian patriot like Mike Pompeo, a great man of faith.
May God bless you forever for your work. , That's awesome. He obviously is liked by a lot of different people.
Let's move on to, would you Rather?
Nicole: Would you rather vomit on your hero or have your hero vomit on you?
Jolene: Oh my God.
Uh, well, I would rather have my hero vomit on me because then, uh, that makes me in control, that gives me the upper hand.
Nicole: Girl I'm totally
with you. Totally with you. Because I'm like, maybe then we'd be friends,
Jolene: right, I know. [00:26:00] Then they're always go and they'll always remember me. Oh my God, that's the girl that I threw up on
Nicole: Yeah. Now she's my bestie.
Jolene: and you know what, and she still loved me, so.
Nicole: Yeah, there you go.
did you have a hero when you thought about the vomit question?
Jolene: no, you know, who was in my mind was Tom Sellick, and I wouldn't call him a hero, but man, I still think he's hot at like 85 years old or whatever he is.
Can you imagine his vomit stuck in his crusty mustache?
Nicole: In his mustache. I'd have to, oh, I'm, I'd have to help him out with that.
Well, you love helping out
Jolene: I would help out little old men. Yes, exactly.
Nicole: you just take a washcloth or something.
Jolene: I had just clean him up. God. Okay, here's yours. Ready?
Nicole: Yep.
Jolene: Would you rather go skiing completely naked
Nicole: Hmm.
Jolene: snow? Snow skiing,
or swim in the Hudson?
Nicole: [00:27:00] Swim in the Hudson.
Jolene: Oh, seriously,
Nicole: The Hudson's
Jolene: isn't the Hudson so gross?
Nicole: no, no. It's gotten much cleaner. There's been like a huge effort in the last, certainly, I was gonna say 10 years, where they've really cleaned up the Hudson.
Jolene: Really,
Nicole: Listen, I got, I have my own body issues. I do not wanna ski naked in front of anyone. Maybe,
Jolene: it would be cold.
Nicole: maybe 10 years ago.
But this menopausal situation, I do not want to, uh, go down the mountain naked. so cold too.
Jolene: Oh, so you would dive into the Hudson and Swim.
Nicole: Yes, ma'am. There you go.
Jolene: Okay. There you heard it.
Nicole: Yep.
Jolene: Thank you, friend. I know this was a, this was a, this was deep, so.
Nicole: I, I also hope that, um, obviously I monopolize this one because you were asking me the questions. Uh, you know, this is my [00:28:00] own Just
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: everything we're trying to do on this podcast, we're only giving our own.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: and this is heavy.
And I being, uh, someone that is such an empath, I don't, speaking of not offending, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or
Jolene: Yeah,
Nicole: offend anyone.
Jolene: but I also love that you've, that you've shed some light on. Someone who's not Jewish to understand. You know what I mean? That I think we all understand the Holocaust as being such a horrible, impactful time that we can't imagine anyone being anti-Semitic. So, uh, I just, I, I don't know how you, I don't know how you, um, deal with that,
Nicole: I don't know. We gotta get our, we gotta get our shit together 'cause we can't repeat this. And history repeats itself all the time. it's, I mean, it's not just for the [00:29:00] Jews. I all this hate, this hate's not helping anybody.
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: It really isn't.
Jolene: Amen to that.
Nicole: All right. you my friend.
Jolene: I love you too. Thank you.
Nicole: Thank you. And uh, you all and we'll talk to you soon.
Jolene: Bye bye.
Nicole: Bye.
