Why Republicans and Democrats Need to Talk Now
It’s clear that meaningful conversations between Republicans and Democrats have never been more crucial. It's time we stop finger-pointing and just start talking to each other. Our goal here is to humanize the dialogue and inspire others to do the same.
It was the morning after the 2024 election when reality hit me, Nicole, like a ton of bricks. The media narrative I was ingrained in suddenly clashed with the overwhelming redness of the electoral map, a stark contrast to the coastal bubble I inhabited. The division was undeniable, and it became clear that open conversations were desperately needed—conversations like the ones I've had with my long-time friend, Jolene.
For Jolene and me, our friendship began with curiosity and mutual respect back in college. Jolene was my first Republican friend, a small-town Iowa girl, meeting me, the California liberal. From the onset, we embraced each other's perspectives, cultivating a relationship grounded in respect. We've navigated tough political waters together, proving that real-life dialogue isn't just a soundbite. We live it—challenging, candid, and full of common ground.
Both of us acknowledge that the digital era has exacerbated misunderstandings. Keyboard warriors have taken over with anonymous insults that wouldn’t happen face-to-face. We've consistently prioritized our friendship, choosing understanding over persuasion. Our discussions after polarizing elections, like Hillary’s infamous loss in 2016, have been a testament to our unique dynamic. The key lies in setting aside preconceived notions and genuinely listening to each other's narratives.
Jolene’s perspective as a conservative differs from mine, yet our dialogues unveil deeper truths. We have both seen the error in assuming political alignment equates to personality or morality. Media oversimplifications portray voters as stereotypes, but the reality is nuanced.
Common Ground and Respect
Our aim is to encourage others to cultivate similar dialogues in their own communities. We need to approach sensitive topics with curiosity and openness. Despite memes and viral moments painting our generation as “a generation of sad people with happy pictures,” it's time we embrace sincerity in the way we communicate with each other.
The discussions on our podcast stem from a shared belief in America’s potential—a nation founded on diversity and different viewpoints. Yet, we've strayed towards isolated echo chambers. It's tempting to gravitate toward social media feedback loops that reinforce comfortable ideologies, but meaningful change requires discomfort and a willingness to meet somewhere in the middle.
As passionate as we are, neither of us claims unwavering support for anyone blindly. I've expressed my frustrations about political idols and the spectacle around figures like Trump. Jolene provides an insightful counterpoint, recognizing the yearning for change, the allure of a fresh voice unburdened by entrenched political traditions. The truth usually sits somewhere between these poles.
Dismantling our engrained opinions is challenging, yet essential. Perhaps it's about reliving those simpler college days when consuming media wasn't divided down party lines. We want those moments back—the genuine exchanges, unembellished by sensationalism and social media.
There is no doubt that our political landscape is complex, but we can navigate it together. It starts with a conversation. By listening, sharing stories and learning about competing truths, we create a common ground where differences are not feared but celebrated. We invite everyone, regardless of political orientation, to open up and embrace each other’s narratives in pursuit of a more united America.
Join us, and let’s show that friendships and conversations across the aisle aren’t just possible—they're vital.
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Nicole: [00:00:00] so this, uh, idea was birthed after the 2024 election I realized that I've been avoiding you, uh, that I didn't want to talk about what was going on to the lead up of this election. Um, and. Once I woke up, the next day and noticed that the country was completely red, really It was quite clear that the media that I was being fed was very different than what the rest of the country and my conservative Republican friend was being, being fed.
And so I immediately thought we've got to talk about this. I know that we can navigate things in a different way. And that we've been friends for so long and we're not afraid to talk about these things, that it was important for us to humanize this situation so that maybe other people could start talking and listening in
Jolene: And isn't that funny, because I think, I look at you and I, we've been [00:01:00] friends since college, and, you were like the first liberal person that I had ever met. I mean, I was 17 years old and here was this cute little redhead from California, you know, San Francisco. in Iowa city, Iowa.
And like, this was such a great opportunity. I mean, I looked at it is, you know, meeting someone who was, you know, who was so cool and different and, wasn't from Pleasantville, Iowa. And so, you know, it was just, it was such a great opportunity. And I think we've always taken this relationship.
But since freshman in college and been able to learn from each other and like in a way that is respectful and helpful and you know, I can go, what the hell, why are you, why do you, why do you guys think of this? And you come back to me and say the same thing and, and I, and it's been so great to hear your perspective and I don't know that a lot of people have that opportunity or take that opportunity.
I mean, maybe that's a whole, you know, maybe that's a [00:02:00] whole nother conversation. But. Um, I think it's a unique relationship that you and I have that we want to share with, with others.
Nicole: it's been, we are the enemy. I'm the enemy. You are the enemy. and I know in my bones that we're not. And the, when you and I've talked about the tough stuff from the beginning of our friendship, we always find so much commonality and it's not that soundbite that say all the time that ends up sounding so disingenuous.
Like, we actually live it,
Jolene: I think we do it with an effort to understand each other. Like, okay, I don't get why someone would think that. And so we can have this dialogue, whereas a lot of people right now are looking, as you said, for soundbites and clicking behind a screen and saying, you know, you're an idiot because they can say things on a computer or on a phone that they wouldn't say face to face.
Nicole: Absolutely. You would never, [00:03:00] ever treat someone the way we are treating each other online. I mean, we, we met in the fall of 1987 and there were no cell phones and there were no computers and we wrote letters. Remember letters?
Jolene: Mm hmm.
Nicole: we come from that place, and I think we've continued, no matter what technology has come since then, that we honor the friendship first, and I've never tried to change your mind.
and I, and you haven't with me either. You tried to get me to change your mind when the 2016 election with Hillary. No. to say, it was, it was totally impossible. and I didn't want to. when Hillary lost, and I knew that you did not like her, and I was crushed. I mean, I was just crushed.
I feel like that whole next day I couldn't stop crying. You were, [00:04:00] okay, I'm so,
Jolene: my God. Are you gonna cry right now?
Nicole: uh, you were so loving and kind and you immediately reached out to me and I thought, wow, like I have this incredible friend that you didn't go ha ha. And that's sort of where we are now. This ha ha. Like, haha, but this sort of place of, we just are so mad at each other. I saw a thing on, um, you know, an Instagram meme thing. And it said, we are a generation of sad people with happy pictures.
Jolene: Oh God. That's so good.
Nicole: It's so good. And that's sort of where I feel like we are. It's like, everything is about proving who we are via video or phone or, I'm not, I've been on Facebook in 500 years, but like, that status [00:05:00] update, and you had friends that it was like, they didn't actually eat the food until they posted it.
I mean, even if they ate it, it didn't really exist until it was posted or the status updated. how do we move forward? I know we're sort of diverging here, but I think that's why you and I are so passionate about this project.
Jolene: and for me as I as I was reading Instagram posts from from my liberal friends who said, you know, if you voted for Trump that you can just, you know, unfriend me right now because you're a racist and a homophobe and, a narcissist. And I'm like, I am none of those things. And so I mean, that Like for, for people to have that mentality that who you voted for defines you is just like we've, we've, we've absolutely then lost the art of conversation because if that's the post that you choose to put out into the world, then you're closing yourself off, right?
I [00:06:00] mean, you've just, you've made an assumption about somebody and that's what you're going to stick with. And, you know, be damned the facts. I've already made up my mind, you know,
Nicole: mean, I understand that we as human beings, we are fairly tribal and we've become incredibly tribal in this time. But if we're looking at how America was founded, and I know honestly it's a bunch of bullshit and I'm learning that like the PR is. Staggeringly different than the reality of like how this country was formed, who had rights, who didn't, who, who was killed, who wasn't all of those things.
But if we're looking at the free to be you and me version that I learned. In the seventies. Do you know what free to be you
Jolene: Yes, I remember those on
Nicole: I loved, loved that record. I loved love. I was like, so like Kumbaya San Francisco girl, the free to be you and me, or Sesame street where all the colors of the kids and [00:07:00] everybody got along.
what I thought was we were a melting pot of human beings. Isn't it much more interesting if we all aren't the same and we all don't think the same and we all don't like, that doesn't mean we should be hateful and let's talk to each other, right?
Jolene: right. And let's not assume that painted this narrative in our head of all the people that voted for Kamala or, or Trump that we've painted this picture in our head of who that person is, and we have absolutely no idea who that person is.
Nicole: Of course not. We're learning about them on the television screen, the phone through Instagram. it's all smoke and mirrors.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: Like if you go back to, you know, we are a people, a sad people with happy pictures. Everybody is telling a story and telling their maybe the best version of themselves and then because there's access to so much, God forbid, a woman gets angry, then they're, then you're a [00:08:00] Karen or you have an emotional response or you act, you know.
badly, and then that is recorded, you're fucked. Like, that's it. That's who you are. Actually, you're a human being and we all have these feelings,
And so I truly am always curious about what you think of something.
also because we just have so much fun together and we laugh so much. And
I think there was a relief to me, even though I was really disappointed that Trump won, , and honestly horrified that some of the, you know, Senators got reelected.
Nicole: One of them is in your state. It turns out. but it felt like, well, this is what the people want.
Jolene: I think we need to, to take a look at why that happened, you know, what are the issues that [00:09:00] people are really concerned about? I think that was probably the biggest disconnect was, you know, I think liberals thought that people were, interested in, you know, the social issues when it came right down to it.
Yeah. People who, were tired of paying too much for groceries and too much for rent, and they thought border security was important and, , you know, they didn't feel safe. I think those things, all of a sudden, it was like, oh, that stuff does matter. And I don't know that the politicians were in touch with that.
Nicole: I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. mean, I guess it takes a certain amount of ego to be a politician, hopefully people are well intentioned at the beginning, I would like our politicians, whether they be Republican or Democrat to take responsibility. if Biden said, I'm going to be a one term president. Then that's what I wanted him to do I started to lose respect, when he [00:10:00] had that horrible debate
with Trump I thought he was going to stroke out. I truly did. I was like, shouldn't we stop this debate and make sure that this human being is okay? And we didn't. that's where we are in this because I'm sure the ratings, you know, went through the roof. When he called Trump a loser, I was like, are you guys eight years old? Like little boys. It was horrible. It was, this is our country. This is where we are. Like, are you kidding? as a Democrat and as a liberal, I hated how everything was handled that if he had said, I'm a one term president, and then we, as a Democratic party had a true primary and, and brought someone up that we really thought would be a good president, not beat Trump.
Like everyone is obsessed with him. And I think that's also part of
the problem. The [00:11:00] Republicans are obsessed with him and the Democrats are obsessed with him. We can't talk about anything else except Trump.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: isn't even a Republican. Like if we really get to it,
Jolene: but that's why he won in 2016 because nobody wanted a politician. They wanted a businessman. they wanted somebody who could come in here and shake things up and drain the swamp and Wasn't the same old things that we've, that we've, that we've had.
Nicole: as a Republican, you had your own heroes. So, weren't you, were you excited about this
Jolene: Oh, oh, hell no.
No.
Nicole: think so.
Jolene: I mean he
Nicole: You're just telling me, you're saying that's why he run, he won, won over people
Jolene: Correct.
Nicole: and people were caught up in the, in the celebrity of him as the apprentice, right?
Like being a New Yorker, we knew what a snake he was. my husband's an attorney. he's had a lot of attorneys. In his, career, as in Trump [00:12:00] has, and they all talk we knew as New Yorkers, this guy doesn't mean what he says, but everyone else seemed to be so enamored with this blustering celebrity.
Jolene: On this podcast, I will never speak for Trump I can only give what my opinions are and, and my opinions are shaped both by, you know, being a wife and a mother and a conservative, you know, being raised conservative, a Catholic, being an entrepreneur. I mean, all of those things.
and I differ on what the Republican party does on a few issues or what the Republican party believes. So I don't think he's an upstanding guy now. I think he's got a, a great opportunity and, and honestly, like, I feel like he's going to get some shit done, um, this
Nicole: think so?
Jolene: Yeah, I do. I think he's so much more prepared.
He, he really wanted to win this time. I think that if you listen to that Joe Rogan. Podcast that he did all three hours of [00:13:00] it. He, which I have not, he was not prepared to win the first time. He didn't think he was going to win. all of a sudden he won and he was like, Oh shit.
Okay. I think he's going to be super effective
Nicole: How do you think he's going to be effective?
Jolene: I think he's gonna make America great again. Oh god, I had to say it. I had to say
Nicole: horrible. It's horrible.
Jolene: No, honestly.
Nicole: that makes me struggle with my love for you right now. I fucking hate that. When people wear those hats and it's so tribal and it's so, combative. You
Jolene: why do you see it as being combative?
Nicole: oh my gosh, because, uh, living in New York, because I now live in New York and I'm actually in Utah right now, we spend time in both places.
In New York, the people that wear the Trump paraphernalia. They are really angry and really aggressive. this is something that was so upsetting. it was during [00:14:00] covid. I used to walk along the Hudson River just to be outside and get some air. I took a walk, and it was September 11th, which was such, is such a tender, horrifying day for New Yorkers. I actually saw the first plane hit Tower One walking to a yoga class that morning. Like it is, it is.
In my cellular makeup that day, and it was a gorgeous morning again, and I'm walking and all of a sudden, and I'm on the river and I look out to the Hudson and there are these boats with Trump flags with their, their, um, megaphones and they're screaming, knowing that most of the people taking a run or a walk that morning along the path.
Aren't Republican, aren't Trump supporters. And it was just like yes, I guess there isn't a ton of anger. I understand that the [00:15:00] working class has been completely ignored and they've always been ignored and he showed a light on them. And God knows we all want to feel seen.
And we want to feel heard and that part I understand, but to instigate on like the lowest level of the anger that it's just like, this is gonna happen. And where can we talk in that framework? How do we have discussion when there's that much? It's, it's actually, I found it frightening.
Jolene: Okay. So I, I will look at this from a different perspective and say that now September 11th is Patriot Day, right? I mean, it, that's what we call it is, is Patriot Day.
Nicole: I don't call it that. And I don't know any liberal person that calls it Patriot Day. And that's what's upsetting.
Jolene: Wait, I know. It's like on my calendar that it like September 11th is Patriot Day.[00:16:00]
Nicole: coined that?
Jolene: Oh, I mean, shit, probably Hallmark, but I mean, like
Nicole: I mean, I don't,
I, I
Jolene: am I making that up?
Nicole: listen, this is an interesting, uh, fact because Maybe the media that you consume calls it Patriot Day. We don't as New Yorkers, we don't call it Patriot Day. And that's the thing, like, we were intimately affected.
We have people that, you know, people that died. , I saw things that day, I hope, like, I can't get it out of my brain. It's a horrible day. And you know, when people come to and I live down near the Trade Center now and when people come to Memorial and they take selfies,
Jolene: Hmm.
Nicole: it's like that's part of this culture that I'm struggling with.
It's like, hey, this is sacred ground. This was one of the worst, I don't know, one of the worst days [00:17:00] in U. S. history.
Jolene: I will just tell you, in 2001, Congress designated September 11th as Patriot Day.
Nicole: Okay.
Jolene: Um,
Nicole: corrected. I didn't, but, but to me, so when you say that it's Patriot Day, does that give people the right to like pound their fists like gorillas?
Jolene: no,
Nicole: what it feels like.
Jolene: no, I get why you say that, because that day, obviously, is, is much more triggering for you, because you were there, and you lived it, and you have, All of the things that, that are associated with that day for you are completely different from me living in, at the time we were in Albuquerque and saw it on TV.
So obviously, I mean, obviously we all have stories of, you know, that day,
Nicole: And even seeing it on TV, and they played it over and over and over again. So traumatizing.
Jolene: So what I'm saying though, is because it is now considered [00:18:00] patriot day, in other circles, having the Trump supporters saying, you know, we're taking this country back to, people can be proud of, this country and you know, we need to rally around being patriotic again.
And I mean, so that's when, when I hear that there was a, you know, a Trump boat parade, on the Hudson. That makes sense to me, right? I get why that doesn't make sense to you.
Nicole: But also, Jolene, like, it's one thing if it was just a bunch of American flags. But where I struggle, it's not just the American flags, it's then the, I think it's a cop flag that's like, the colors are sort of blue and black with the American flag. And then there's so much Trump, where I didn't think we were supposed to idolize one human being. And that scares me. you know what, you know what I'm saying here. Like
Jolene: I
Nicole: they, they are, they're [00:19:00] holding him up as,
Jolene: so that's why we're here. That's why, that is why we, uh, we have so many things that we want to talk about. And, uh, and I think that we want to share and that I want your perspective on. And see,
Nicole: I do.
Jolene: that is why we're here.
Nicole: That's why we're here. how would you like to end this?
Jolene: I'd like to end with the would you rather game?
here's my would you rather for you.
Nicole: Oh God.
Jolene: Would you rather have dinner with Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos?
Nicole: Oh my God.
Jolene: Oh, come on.
Nicole: no, no. Cause here's the thing. Uh, one day Josh and I, it was a weekend. We were, we went to this restaurant downtown to have Italian food for lunch and we walked in and there was really no one there. And we sat at this table. [00:20:00] And there were all these bodyguards, and we didn't understand what was going on, and we sort of looked in the corner, this corner booth, and there was this weaselly little guy, and this woman, that, and he looked like, just, I was like, who is that?
And Josh was like, that's Jeff Bezos. And I was like, no way. So I feel like I kind of had
Jolene: So you've already had,
Nicole: I think I have, but, um, who would I rather, gosh,
Jolene: the two of you. You're at a table and it's just the two of you.
Nicole: so it's like a date.
Jolene: No, it's not a date. You just asked, he just asked you out to, you, you won
Nicole: Oh, I won.
Jolene: a contest. Yeah.
Nicole: And I get to go out with
Jolene: Either Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. And you can talk about anything you want at dinner.
Nicole: I think [00:21:00] I would choose Elon Musk, they both have incredible power, obviously, and they both have a ton of money, obviously. But Musk has a direct contact, like a direct connection with what's going on in this next administration, and I'm very curious to pick his brain and understand what he believes, why he believes it, what his intentions are, and maybe if there's, if there's anything I could, uh, suggest.
And helping put the country a little bit back together again that maybe we liberals, I don't know, that we could have a say or a seat at the table.
Jolene: I feel like that's a fantastic opportunity. But don't you think that he was liberal once?
Nicole: I think he was. So was Trump, by the way. Trump was too.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: So, you know, here we are. So am I supposed to ask you a would you rather?
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: Would you [00:22:00] rather? Be stuck in an igloo for a month with food, with, AOC or, well, she's dead now, so that would be tricky, but AOC or Dianne Feinstein.
Jolene: I mean, probably Dianne Feinstein. AOC
Nicole: knew, I knew it. I, I, I knew it. I was like, oh, I didn't, I made this too easy for you.
Jolene: No, I mean,
Nicole: because I knew you'd go, I would, I knew you would go old school.
Jolene: Yeah, I want the old lady.
Nicole: Of course you do. You like those old people. Oh.
Jolene: I do. Yeah,
Nicole: You do.
Jolene: Because, you know what, because she was part of, of a political team that wasn't as liberal as they are today. Like AOC, I don't even think I could talk any, I don't, I feel like there would be nothing that AOC and I could even have a conversation about.
Nicole: Just as women, you couldn't have a conversation? She seems pretty cool to me.
Jolene: She has [00:23:00] fantastic red lipstick.
Nicole: she has fint, you could talk about red
lipstick.
Jolene: We could, talk about makeup.
Yep.
Nicole: could, you could put makeup on in the igloo.
Jolene: We could do each other's makeup.
Nicole: There you go. Did you change your mind?
Jolene: Nope, I'm sticking with Diane.
Nicole: All right,
