What Really happened On January, 6th?
In today's polarized political climate, finding common ground can feel like an insurmountable task. Yet, in our almost 40 years of friendship, we've learned that it's the tough conversations, the ones we might be a little hesitant to have, that often bring us closer together. As we sat down to discuss the events of January 6th, 2021, we realized just how much the divide between conservative and liberal media shapes our understanding of the world—and how essential it is to bridge that gap with empathy and curiosity.
Two Perspectives On January 6th
Nicole: I remember that day vividly as I was also saying my last goodbyes via FaceTime to my step-mother who was dying of dementia. As a Liberal Democrat, I'd heard the warnings about potential protests but nothing prepared me for the surreal blend of personal tragedy and national chaos that unfolded before my eyes.
Jolene: For me, January 6th started as any other workday. My initial reaction to the protests was one of almost nonchalance. It didn’t initially seem like that big of a deal but that could have been because I was preoccupied with work commitments. It wasn't until later that evening that the gravity of the situation truly hit me.
Our conversation began with these differing experiences—one of immediate shock, the other of delayed realization. This highlighted the powerful role the media plays in our perception of events. While Nicole's sources had emphasized the day's potential significance and live coverage was truly shocking, Jolene's sources had perhaps downplayed it. This media-induced gap in awareness is a microcosm of a broader national issue.
The way media outlets presented January 6th illustrated something we've come to understand: it’s not just about what happened, but how it's told. This narrative discrepancy contributes to the polarized versions of reality that exist in America.
Finding Common Ground Through Dialogue
Despite our different viewpoints, our conversation about January 6th was enlightening. We both agreed that part of the issue lies in the lack of accountability in the media. With the lines between news and entertainment often blurred, we've become more susceptible to narratives that fit neatly into our existing beliefs.
January 6th was a turning point—not just in American history, but also in our friendship, reminding us that while we may start from different places, we can always find a way to meet in the middle. As we grapple with this political moment, we hope our conversation can inspire others to open up, listen, and critically evaluate the media they consume.
Our dialogue won't erase the divisions, but it's a step towards understanding—one conversation at a time. Let's keep talking. Let's keep listening. That's the only way forward.
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[00:00:00] Nicole: first of all, I want to acknowledge that even though we've been close friends forever, I thought you lived in Arkansas and you actually live in.
[00:00:09] Jolene: Okay, in Missouri, and to be fair, we did, we were in Arkansas for the last two years.
[00:00:15] Nicole: So you're in the Ozark world.
[00:00:18] Jolene: Yes, yes, we are
[00:00:19] Nicole: like when I discovered that in my brain this morning, I was like, Oh my God, she lives in Ozark country. Did you see the show?
[00:00:28] Jolene: Yes. But you know what? Not all the seasons. Like, I think only like the, were there five? I think we saw the first three.
[00:00:35] Nicole: It's real dark.
[00:00:37] Jolene: And that's where I, yes, it is. And that's where I got a
[00:00:41] Nicole: home.
[00:00:42] Jolene: Right. I mean, then I'm like, Oh no, that, that, no, that happens. Nope. That is, that is absolutely right on. And then I'm like, okay, now, now they're taking a little too
[00:00:52] Nicole: Yes, exactly. Exactly. As most shows do.
[00:00:55] Jolene: And you're in Salt
[00:00:56] Nicole: I'm in Salt Lake right now. I split time between New York and Salt Lake and then we had a huge snow storm last night. So
[00:01:03] Jolene: Oh.
[00:01:04] Nicole: we are covered in snow, which is kind of beautiful and amazing.
[00:01:08] It doesn't happen in the valley very often. So it's really, really nice. now I'm just going to have Ozark in my brain through throughout this whole podcast. Um, like, do you know Jason Bateman? Anyway. Um,
[00:01:19] okay.
[00:01:20] I realized that I had avoided you, subconsciously for the last couple months.
[00:01:24] election night when it turned red, I realized that there was an enormous disconnect. the media that I had been fed was extremely different than the media that you had been fed and. It all started to come to this fruition of, wait a minute, we need to have a conversation.
[00:01:43] And I think, start to humanize what's going on here and take back control of the narrative. Uh, cause you and I talk about all the things and we, I mean, we're not afraid to talk about it, right?
[00:01:58] Jolene: Yeah, a hundred percent. [00:02:00] And, and so when you called me and you said, we've got to talk about this because I think there are so many people that have so many questions that, that we don't have answers to.
[00:02:11] And, and I remember, I think subconsciously avoiding you as well. I think just because it was, it is tough. And we've been friends for so long as a landscape changed and, you know, Kamala came in and Biden, all of the stuff, I didn't have answers. So I didn't know that I could have a good conversation with you because I didn't like where we were.
[00:02:32] I mean, I, I was not a Trumper. I'm not a MAGA person, but I am conservative and a Republican. So there was a lot of things for me to figure out. I don't know that I could have had a good conversation with you because I didn't have any answers.
[00:02:46] Nicole: Yes. And I felt like as, as the, especially, I would say it was not just with Kamala, but that horrific debate between Biden and, and Trump, where we were all just sort of shell shocked, and I truly thought, was he stroking out? Like, are we, should we just stop the television show and make sure this man's okay?
[00:03:08] it just became so crazy like, I have a community of friends that are well read and think and, want a better country. And so it was like, we have to shut the noise out. And I felt like if I, if Jolene and I talk about this, all the things that and yes, it's just our opinion, but we are talking to each other with curiosity and we're listening, which I feel like we don't listen to each other anymore.
[00:03:37] Jolene: Well, and I think too, you and I have a unique relationship because we've been friends for so long that, that we can say the hard things to each other and allow the other person to express their feelings and why they got to that point. And I don't think there are a lot of people in our worlds.
[00:03:56] That have that opportunity or they're [00:04:00] behind a computer and they're just spewing, you know, crap and, and commenting and, and fueling a fire that, you know, doesn't do anything, right? I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't solve
[00:04:10] Nicole: Absolutely. And I've always been of the belief that, you know, yes, the computer can be incredible. Like we have. Access to information and beauty and all kinds of things with this but you would never. Say the things that people are saying to each other on the computer, if you were face to face with them, you just wouldn't.
[00:04:34] And we have, you know, it is this magical connection. And yet there's so much disconnect because we've forgotten that we are human beings on the other side of that computer screen And it is much harder. It is hard to listen and to, want to understand someone else.
[00:04:54] Jolene: Oh, absolutely. But to do it for the right reason, because then I, you know, I'm sure there are a lot of people that love to get in debate. I mean, how many times have you seen, you know, stupid, you know, somebody filming in a restaurant, two people getting into it. And you're like, no, that was completely staged.
[00:05:10] Or you're doing it because you know, you're being filmed or you're, you're filming it because you're trying to get a rise out of somebody. and it's again. Not for the right reasons. It's not with empathy and love and respect. I
[00:05:22] Nicole: So, because this has taken a little bit of time to, uh, figure out how to do, I think it's quite poignant that today is January 4th. And in two days, uh, it's the anniversary of a really hard day in this country. where were you on that day? Do you remember
[00:05:43] Jolene: I was working and I think I got, I probably got a text from our girls. Saying, you know, do you guys have the news on? I mean, that was probably, and I remember like seeing the news, but I don't think [00:06:00] I focused on it. I'm like, God, this is a shit show and, and turned it off. I don't think I, like at the time, I didn't, I don't think I, maybe I watched it for, for 20 minutes, maybe a half hour and then walked away.
[00:06:12] Nicole: it, when you walked away, did you, I'm assuming it hadn't escalated yet.
[00:06:20] Jolene: I remember seeing, um, protests outside of the Capitol, like, but yeah, so I don't know that they'd actually gone in yet. I mean, it was, and it wasn't the initial, and correct me if I'm wrong, there was a, there was a rally that Trump spoke at.
[00:06:36] Nicole: Mm
[00:06:37] Jolene: He told them to, you know, fight like hell or, or whatever his words were.
[00:06:42] They, you know, a majority of them went to the Capitol. That's when all hell broke loose. Some decided to storm and go into the Capitol. So it probably was when they were outside of the Capitol.
[00:06:56] Nicole: Okay. And then you turned it off.
[00:06:59] Jolene: yeah, I don't think I thought I did. I just didn't think it was an issue. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. You're like, Oh, there's protests.
[00:07:06] Nicole: and you were in your workday.
[00:07:08] Jolene: Yeah. Oh,
[00:07:11] Nicole: Cause I had a completely opposite, opposite experience because, my stepmother was dying that day, and I had to FaceTime with her and say goodbye. It was so surreal. So I remember FaceTiming with her.
[00:07:30] And she had deep dementia, so she couldn't really register what was going on. And she was not, uh, verbal anymore and was having this like really deep experience saying goodbye. Cause it's also in COVID. So I couldn't go out there. we, we knew my stepmom was dying and my dad was by himself.
[00:07:50] And so here I was having this experience. And I think, you know, we'd heard this. In the liberal [00:08:00] media, we'd heard that January six was going to be a big deal and that there was a lot of, uh, protest and things that January six had never been a thing before it was just protocol. Right? So I know that I had the television on for that reason.
[00:08:19] And Josh was in the other room working. And so I remember like saying goodbye to Jackie and then looking up and watching all these people start to storm. And I was like, Josh, Josh, get in here. Something's wrong. And we were just glued and there were nooses. It was just like to hang Mike, Mike Pence.
[00:08:47] It was. Unfathomable. and so we watched the whole thing and we couldn't believe, like, it was taking so long for Trump to say anything. so you finished your work day and then what happened?
[00:09:01] Jolene: probably, it wasn't until I probably turned the news on at, you know, five or six o'clock that I saw the extent of, you know, what happened and, you know, people were being escorted and, and, you know, seeking shelter and,
[00:09:13] Nicole: And the, and that woman was killed and the cops were killed. What do you,
[00:09:19] Jolene: person that was killed?
[00:09:20] Nicole: that woman, she was a veteran.
[00:09:23] Jolene: she was a protester,
[00:09:24] Nicole: oh yeah,
[00:09:26] Jolene: but who, so who killed her?
[00:09:28] Nicole: the security team, like, she crashed through the windows. She, I don't, I think she might have been an ex marine. She was an ex military. and then, you know, they went inside and then like, one cop was killed in the, you know, capital, and then others were injured and died.
[00:09:49] No, no, no, no, no,
[00:09:50] But I also was just curious, maybe you were looking at different media, because what I'm finding really chilling is that [00:10:00] A lot of the right, I'm not suggesting that you listen to this far right stuff, but that they're saying that they were tourists, that there were no, there was no violence and I watched it and there was I just was very fascinated by that day, honestly.
[00:10:17] And so I've read the Cassidy Hutchinson book, and I read the, uh, Liz Cheney book just about like all the extent of what happened and yet there is now this reframing and reimagining.
[00:10:36] Jolene: here's what my memory would be right now, is that I remember one person dying I think it was a heart attack. And, and, and that was a, a security guy. Or a police officer, I think. again, the, the narratives that we have that we remember.
[00:10:54] Nicole: The first one was this woman, and she was shot, because I saw it.
[00:10:59] Jolene: Wow.
[00:10:59] Nicole: I mean, it was live. It was totally bananas.
[00:11:03] Jolene: if I were to tell you what my thoughts are on that right now, it would be that, that Trump should have. said something before he did. I mean, I think that's the general consensus of, of anyone was, that he should have stepped in and said, you know, Hey, stand down, you've, you've gone too far.
[00:11:21] but I don't agree that he instigated it. I think he could have deescalated it, was it instigated by a, you know, a rally and that Trump said, go, you know, fight like hell and they did it.
[00:11:36] And it was, uh, no, I, I feel like there were some, you know, there were some people that, that had it all planned
[00:11:41] Nicole: yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of evidence that that's what happened, that they, and it almost seemed like, you know, it was, it I don't know, from all the stuff that I've read, it almost seemed like they had this idea, or Trump had this idea, or the people in power that didn't want to lose [00:12:00] power also had the idea, and it was like, , how much can we get away with?
[00:12:04] And then all of a sudden they're like, oh shit, we can get away with it. And they start believing their own lies. And then other Republicans were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And yet, and so there's a moment that I thought, like even Mitch McConnell, they were all like, this is too much. And then somehow they got back on board with him.
[00:12:28] I mean, that's the part that's confusing to me.
[00:12:31] Jolene: Got back on board with Trump
[00:12:33] Nicole: Yeah. I would say, you know, once Biden got into power, it was like, there was this sort of this consensus that. That, you know, Trump was impeached and they were going to make sure that he was not elected again. And it was within, like, weeks that more people were like, Oh, was it an insurrection?
[00:12:54] I don't know if it was. And you're
[00:12:56] Jolene: okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. When you're saying impeached though, that was when he was president.
[00:13:01] Nicole: yes.
[00:13:02] Jolene: saying. So then two years later, you're saying, or a year
[00:13:07] Nicole: Well, no, they started the investigation of January 6th and I don't think that they did that correctly. Well, and I think they took too long, but it gave people enough time to change the narrative that there were a lot of Republicans that day. They lived it. were terrified because it wasn't like the protesters came in and we'd be like, I'm going to kill you and I'm not going to kill you.
[00:13:30] Right. But one thing I remember because I was watching it as it was happening, there are these group of men and they were like the staunch right Right.
[00:13:40] Right. MAGA, and they're sitting in that Capitol in the Congress, and they're not scared. They're not hiding. They're just sitting there shooting the shit, and I remember at that time going, what the fuck's going on here? They must know something. Now, I'm projecting, [00:14:00] or I'm,
[00:14:01] Jolene: Oh, wait, so you're not talking about the people that stormed the Capitol, you're talking about the people that were, Oh,
[00:14:07] Nicole: I'm talking about people in Congress, they were sitting there on the desk, like, Shooting the shit, waiting for it to calm down when everyone else was hiding behind the chairs.
[00:14:24] Jolene: Okay. So this is where I would say, is that accurate? When you say that the longer it went, the, they changed the narrative. I would venture to say the longer it went, the more. They investigated what really happened because weren't there again, in what I was seeing there was ABC news, I think specifically, was caught, editing film footage and saying, you know, this is what happened when, if you looked at the extended footage, , it was them slicing, splicing together, different, you know, parts of that day and making it.
[00:15:00] Look much worse than it was in real time. Does that ring a bell? Does that do you remember that at all?
[00:15:07] Nicole: I don't. I mean, I don't watch ABC News, so I would imagine that news Media unfortunately, they wanted you to capture your attention and I, I imagined that that could have happened. I just, I mean, the irony is I was watching MSNBC, probably the most liberal in your mind, maybe, and it was live.
[00:15:33] So I only saw what I saw. I think that's a problem with media in general. Right? And I think that's also why we're here and again, you know, I'm just a human, you're just a human, we're not journalists, so it's, it's just perception, like, as I say to you, I saw these men, that's my narrative.
[00:15:52] I decided, hey, they seem a little too casual. This seems like it's really serious. And everyone else is [00:16:00] scared, but they're not. Why?
[00:16:01] Jolene: okay Wait, so are you saying that you saw that live on MSNBC? That there was a camera showing a shit show in the background But guys just sitting there like how did they get that footage
[00:16:13] Nicole: it's always filmed. It's not private. There are cameras in, in
[00:16:18] the chamber.
[00:16:19] Again, memory is a funny thing. You hear these stories about memory, and Josh talks about it as a litigator, that we can also tell ourselves what we saw,
[00:16:28] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:16:29] Nicole: And so that's also part of the problem of where we are in this country, I think, is it's like, I saw this, I heard this, did you?
[00:16:36] Jolene: Yeah. Right.
[00:16:37] Nicole: that day was so important to me, like some days are important saying goodbye to my step mom, it's sort of a locked into my brain. What else happened that day? You know, I didn't have any auditions that day, so I was just, you know, doing my thing and you were like, I'm running a business.
[00:16:54] So this is, this is a bunch of nonsense right now. It's just the same shit. Of course, I'm putting words in your mouth.
[00:17:01] Jolene: Nope. You're right.
[00:17:02] Nicole: And I got work to do and I think also what it's worth, in the before times, when you and I didn't have cell phones and didn't have computers, you had three news channels.
[00:17:17] There was a law. Before Reagan, I read about that news stations were supposed to, if they were going to give five minutes to Reagan, they had to give five minutes to Carter. And they don't do that anymore. And that's obviously also why we're here.
[00:17:34] So you, like, did your day, whatever your day was, and then you turn on the evening news, you get your equal bits and go on. Yeah.
[00:17:43] Now, it's just like this flood, right?
[00:17:47] Jolene: Totally. Yeah. No, you're right.
[00:17:49] it's interesting too. And I, and I know we'll talk about this a hundred more times about, where we get our news and is it the, you know, is it the nightly news at five 30 that you get, you [00:18:00] know, 15 minutes of news and 15 minutes of commercials, or is it, you know, is it Twitter or is it, newspaper, I mean, obviously.
[00:18:09] And so that's the problem is I think the narratives are so different with each media that, we're looking at. So,
[00:18:15] Nicole: it seems like it's become so much about entertainment and not about real news. It seems like there's more violence than ever, but we also have more access to it. And it also seems like media is ready to shove down any violent thing down our throats. We never get any good news.
[00:18:35] Jolene: okay. We should end every segment
[00:18:38] Nicole: okay.
[00:18:38] Jolene: with, the, would you rather game? would you rather play spin the bottle with Matt Gaetz or Donald Trump?
[00:18:49] Nicole: Oh my god.
[00:18:54] Jolene: This
[00:18:55] Nicole: So
[00:18:56] Jolene: and you have to pick one.
[00:18:57] Nicole: I have to pick one?
[00:18:59] Jolene: No, I mean, it's, yeah.
[00:19:10] Nicole: Oh my god. I'm sorry, y'all. I guess I would have to choose Matt Gaetz. I can't believe I just said that. Like, I just sort of threw up in my mouth. But I have to I cause he's Uuuuugh. I mean, seriously.Dude, I don't even know where to go after that. Phew. Would you rather, Intimate cuddle with Mitch McConnell or Hillary Clinton.
[00:19:58] Jolene: gah. [00:20:00] Well, I mean Mitch McConnell, he's a sweet old man.
[00:20:04] Nicole: Ew. See, I'm not good at this.
[00:20:08] I'm not good at
[00:20:09] Jolene: just, I could just, I could just cradle him.
[00:20:14] Nicole: Ew,
[00:20:15] Jolene: of him.
