Democrat vs Republican: Reaction to the re-election of Trump
Jolene and I have shared almost 40 years of friendship, marked by hard conversations over coffee and phone calls. We met at the University of Iowa, where an unexpected friendship was sparked between an avid football fan (Jolene) and a theatre chick (Nicole). Now, after all these years, we're finding common ground in discussing a topic that's divided much of America: the re-election of President Trump. It's a journey through our personal reactions and, importantly, how we bridge our differing political views with respect and understanding.
Frustration and Resolve of a Democrat
Nicole: From my perspective, it's hard not to feel disappointed. I didn't expect Kamala Harris to win, but I hoped for different results. That night, after a dinner with friends where we avoided the topic entirely, I returned home, only to switch off the TV in frustration. It wasn't the gut-wrenching pain I felt when Hillary lost, but it was a shock to see the clear implications of the election results—a red wave showing what America currently desires: change.
While my gut reaction was a blend of disbelief and resolve, what transformed was my approach. Instead of despair, I saw it as a call to action. The lesson was clear: we Democrats must evolve, listen, and adapt, genuinely understanding what the people want. We can’t hide behind systems like the Electoral College here either because Trump won the popular vote. If we want to bring about the change we believe in, we have to do the work, reach out, and connect more genuinely.
Republican’s Perspective of Pragmatism and Surprise
Jolene: On the flip side, reflecting on my journey—initially hoping for a different candidate, ideally Nikki Haley. But as Election Day approached and choices dwindled to Trump or Kamala Harris, my decision leaned towards the Republican party's policies, which more closely aligned with my beliefs, even if not wholeheartedly endorsing all actions of the individual at the party’s helm.
The result did surprise me, though. Seeing a map painted red highlighted to me the widespread call for change and the dissatisfaction with the way this country had been run. It was a moment that reinforced my understanding of the complexities within voter motivations. It’s not merely about a figurehead but the broader narrative of change many voters want.
Dialogues Across Divides
As friends whose political lives have diverged so starkly, we've seen first-hand how easy it is to fall into echo chambers. Yet, our friendship is a testament to why such conversations are necessary. We've learned that such discussions are less about changing minds and more about understanding perspectives.
Nicole mentioned how our conversations have shifted over time, and through resources like "Tangle," she’s learning to listen with new ears. It’s about taking a deep breath and questioning our initial reactions, moving beyond liberal indignation to a place of empathy and insight.
We both believe strongly that more people need to engage in respectful, open dialogues that don't aim to wound but to understand. Encouragingly, Nicole's insights show this openness has started altering even her family dynamics, where hard conversations are turning into opportunities for learning rather than conflict.
Navigating the waters of political disagreement isn't comfortable, but it's crucial for growth. Whether it's deciding between holding firm to one's beliefs or remaining open to persuasion, the critical takeaway is mutual respect and empathy. That’s our story—two friends, two different perspectives, and a friendship that endures the turbulent tides of politics by knowing that the bridge we build together means more than the divide that separates us.
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[00:00:00] Jolene: you and I have had hard conversations with each other for 40
[00:00:36] years. From the moment we met at the University of Iowa, by the way,
[00:00:41] Nicole: Mm hmm.
[00:00:43] Jolene: Um,
[00:00:44] Nicole: made me buy football tickets.
[00:00:45] Jolene: re now, I can't, like, why the hell are you even going to college if you're not going to go to a football game?
[00:00:50] Like why were
[00:00:51] Nicole: Like, you made
[00:00:52] Jolene: was, I know, I
[00:00:53] Nicole: You made me, and I think you made me get an Iowa sweatshirt.
[00:00:57] Jolene: Yep. We went, no, we went to the bookstore before that game.
[00:01:01] Nicole: had no idea. You were like, how do you not have football tickets? I'm like, Um, I'm a theater student.
[00:01:08] Jolene: Our very first football game hotter than hell. our seats were in the end zone. No, the guy behind us did.
[00:01:17] Nicole: That was it.
[00:01:19] Jolene: And I mean, we're standing there and all of a sudden I'm like, God, what is that? And it was the guy behind us who had apparently just eaten a hot dog. And I'm like, it was horrible. And you were like, what the hell are we
[00:01:33] Nicole: yes, I was. I really was. I mean, I grew up with my dad and my brother watching football. It wasn't like, what's a football game at all? And so I knew what football was, but it was sort of like, you know, I didn't understand that then you would go on to marry a football coach and be a football coach's wife and basically be Tammy from Friday Night Lights,
[00:01:56] Jolene: I'm an Iowa girl going to the university of Iowa, small [00:02:00] town, you know, Pleasantville, Iowa population, 1500. Burge Hall had more people living in it than my whole hometown did.
[00:02:08] Nicole: you took me home for Labor Day. We'd already been in school for like, three weeks or something, cause we started rushing in the middle of August. And here I am, the theater student from San Francisco. and you took me home. You're so sweet. Cause I knew no one. And you took me for labor day. And it was like a crash course in small town for me. I mean
[00:02:32] And Whoa. And you took me to the ditch?
[00:02:35] Jolene: We went on, Schuster Road to go drink after the football game. Yeah.
[00:02:39] Nicole: Well, first of all, the Friday night You do Friday Night Lights. That was your life. Friday night, you took us to the fo You took me to the high school football game? it was that life. And then you're like, We're going to the ditch to drink.
[00:02:51] And I'm thinking, Hmm. What the fuck is this place? But
[00:02:57] Jolene: Well, I mean, we weren't of age to drink, so we had to go on a dirt road where we wouldn't get caught.
[00:03:04] Nicole: I would imagine your entire town knows that you're in the ditch.
[00:03:07] Jolene: Oh, I realized that Schuster road, like my dad used to go to Schuster road to drink. So, I mean, the fact that you thought you were going somewhere that , no one knew about wasn't true okay, so Iowa girl, you're San, California girl, I go on to work, get married, have children, state home mom, uh, football coach's wife, you.
[00:03:34] Go on to
[00:03:36] Nicole: to New York.
[00:03:37] Mm hmm. I go to theater school. I Become a working actor. I date everyone Josh isn't gonna like that. Um, but I do and I'm like Single and working and living this dream of being a New [00:04:00] York actor and, you know, it's obvious. It's like, I'm poor as shit and then I make some money and then I'm poor and then I make some money.
[00:04:07] Like it's, you know, and then I get to travel and, and then when I was 43, I've met Josh. And that sort of changed everything and I never thought I wanted to get married. And as soon as I met him, I was like, well, of course I want to marry you. And he came with a 10 year old boy and he was raising him primarily by himself.
[00:04:35] And all of a sudden I went from never having lived with anyone, but a roommate to living with a man and his kid and being a primary caregiver. And I've been doing that for 12 years and crazy, totally different.
[00:04:51] Jolene: is crazy. So, okay. So completely different people, completely different upbringings, completely different lives since college. But the, the thing that has kept us together is our love and respect for each other. And so you and I have always had tough conversations about whatever it is that's going on or whatever's on our mind.
[00:05:12] And, and I want your liberal take on it. You want my conservative take on it and I just don't think that that's a common thing. I don't think that there are people who have the opportunity to talk to somebody with an opposing view and have a respectful conversation and I'm not trying to change your mind and I don't think you're trying to change mine, but I just, I think that it's important for us to have a conversation that, um, shows people that you can love and respect somebody with a completely different outlook on something but understand why they think the way that they do.
[00:05:51] And there's, God, there's nothing wrong with that.
[00:05:52] Nicole: Well, and it's gotten to the point that, You know, people worry about holidays, don't talk about [00:06:00] religion or politics, and I'm thinking, actually, maybe you should start.
[00:06:03] Jolene: Absolutely.
[00:06:05] Nicole: we need to get back to a place where we can talk about these things. I mean, I do believe that, that we used to be able to talk about this more than we can now.
[00:06:15] I think everyone is just so afraid. They're not afraid to hurt each other. But they're so afraid to do the work.
[00:06:22] Jolene: You're right. And, and I think that, that so many times, and I, I mean, I see this with my own family, that you can't have that conversation because you don't even want to go there. You don't want to hear, you don't want to hear what they're, you know, um, I don't want to hear what their liberal ass view is going to be on this or you know, and I'm sure that I don't want to hear their right wing conspiracy theory, you know, opinions and stuff of stuff.
[00:06:50] And, and I think that that's, , gotten us to a point where we either, it's fun to, , butt heads with each other just for the sake of pissing someone off instead of trying to come at from it, from a, you know, empathy and understanding.
[00:07:04] Nicole: Yes. I mean, it's funny because Josh and I are quite liberal, and we have helped raise a child that is now 22, and he's pretty conservative. it's been an interesting experience and there are a lot of times that he would just try to get a rise out of me
[00:07:23] and I would just shut it down. we've had some fascinating conversations since the fact, when I told him that I was starting this podcast, , and I realize, and we've talked about this a little bit, that, I'm now obsessed with Tangle. And while the, you are, you are already reading and listening to Tangle and, um, shout out to Tangle that I'm obsessed with them.
[00:07:44] And since we, for the last two months, and it's only been two months, but I am. reading things and listening to things with totally different ears. , I don't immediately jump to that conclusion, that like liberal, hot, it's more like, [00:08:00] okay, I'm just going to take a deep breath there. The charge is gone.
[00:08:04] it certainly makes my life a little bit easier. Walking around the world and going, I see what they're trying to do to me, and I'm not going to let them, right? I'm going to take power, and I'm going to learn and educate , and talking to Jax has been pretty insightful, and I find that he doesn't, since I've started listening to him and his views, he's not trying to get a rise out of me anymore,
[00:08:30] Jolene: Hmm. That is interesting.
[00:08:33] Nicole: right? And so if that's just a small, I don't know, hopefully path into what we all can do,
[00:08:42] as liberals, we tend, and, and you know it because we act elite. We tend to think that we're smarter than you, we're more well read than you, uh, we know, and you don't, and if only you knew, there's like, right, and there's a condescension, and, and a how can they, and we get very indignant, which that's not, that's not a, a playground for openness, is it,
[00:09:09] Jolene: Oh no.
[00:09:10] Nicole: right, and as liberals, we think we're so open.
[00:09:14] And as you know, I've told you, I've said this to you a billion times, but it's the first time on the podcast where I. sent to you, because I grew up, outside of San Francisco, and it was a pretty wealthy area, and there were a lot of moderate Republicans. This is back in the 80s, right? There wasn't any of this craziness now.
[00:09:34] So you were around all kinds of people at that point, and so I didn't have this preconceived notion about, ah, Republican, but I also Fancy myself a liberal. as time has gone on and I've lived in New York and as long as I have, like, I said to you, Jolene, you're my only conservative friend
[00:09:55] Jolene: Which is crazy
[00:09:58] Which is a crazy [00:10:00] concept, right?
[00:10:01] Nicole: then you said the conservative, the one that we've decided is super, you know, hard and not open and all the things.
[00:10:11] You said to me, I've got tons of liberal friends. And I'm like, well, fuck, I'm the asshole. And then I asked my friends, all my liberal, really smart, open hearted. We're so open hearted. And everyone's like, well, I don't have any.
[00:10:31] Jolene: that's what I love. So I would say two things. Number one, I would say you do have conservative friends. You just haven't had the opportunity to listen to them or know that they're conservative, right? I mean, and, and for your friends, you know, I'm sure they're, you know, school teachers or they're doorman or they're, you know, I mean, I'm sure that
[00:10:52] Nicole: Well, case in point, Joe, the fact that we looked at, you know, election day happened and then you're looking at this red country and it's like, whoa, something is completely disconnected, right?
[00:11:09] Jolene: yeah,
[00:11:10] Nicole: And speaking of doormen, one of the doormen at the building I live in New York who's become like the dearest friend.
[00:11:18] I love him so much. And it was right after the election and I was so like upset, but also not upset. Like Hillary upset different conversation as you, as you remember quite well, but I was just like, Oh, and he was like, Nicole, I voted for Trump and I went, what, I was like, hold on a second. You did? And he said, yeah, the city is so fucked up. And I was like, but Will, that's our mayor. Who, by the way, is [00:12:00] horrible. That's My opinion, and I will say, I will shout it out to the world, but I was like, oh, okay,
[00:12:10] Jolene: So then did you change your opinion of him?
[00:12:13] Nicole: no,
[00:12:14] Jolene: Like you still love him and, and respect him and all that. But when he said that he voted for Trump, were you like, What?
[00:12:24] Nicole: I, honestly, I had to take a deep breath, because I was like, okay, first and foremost, I love you. that was in my brain, in my heart. I was like, okay, I, in that moment, I was like, I need to understand why.
[00:12:44] That's the important thing, is understanding why he did, because it's done. I can't convince him otherwise, right? It's done. And yeah, but a lot of people would be like, fuck you. I'm not going to be your friend anymore. Really? Clearly, he needs some change. He's not happy in his life, and he needs some change.
[00:13:07] He doesn't think like Trump is like the best human thing in the world, but he's like, I'm unhappy the way I, where I am now.
[00:13:14] Jolene: This is what, what floored me, was how many people that I would see on social media who, again, my liberal friends, who said, You know what? If you voted for Trump, you can just delete me right now. We are not going to be friends. I am not going to be friends with homophobe, uh, you know, all, all of the, and I'm like, wait, do you understand your, that's what you're calling me?
[00:13:37] And is that really, is our friendship? Is that what our friendship is about? Is if the person that I voted for now is the, the barometer for our friendship. I mean, these are blanket statements on social media that people either posted or reposted in an effort to say how pissed off they were, number one, or number two, [00:14:00] that they would never be friends with.
[00:14:03] You know, a conservative, but even more so to think that just because I voted for a person that makes me a misogynist, a homophobe, a racist, because I am none of those things.
[00:14:17] Nicole: Right. I do remember when I voted for the first time. I was very excited about it. I was super geeky about it, at that time, you didn't talk about who you voted for. It was
[00:14:31] private.
[00:14:32] Jolene: Right.
[00:14:33] What surprised you the most regarding the election? I mean, is it the obvious that Kamala didn't win?
[00:14:39] Nicole: No, I didn't think she was going to win. Just energetically, I didn't think she was going to win. I kept trying to will it, like seeing her be inaugurated and I'm like, it's not going to happen.
[00:14:52] Jolene: Wow.
[00:14:52] Nicole: And that night I went out to dinner with girlfriends and none of us, we just sort of didn't talk about it. When I came home and when I saw on the television that Ted Cruz had won and Josh Hawley had won, I was like, I'm done.
[00:15:08] It's over and I turned the television off because for me, the president can only do so much the Congress and all the down ballot candidates, that's the real change so we can get all upset about these two figureheads, but they only have so much power and they sit there and talk about all the things are going to do, but they can't do it if they don't have help from Congress period as as you know, and so I was like, If these hateful motherfuckers are getting in, uh, and that's my, that was my gut reaction.
[00:15:39] We talked about how we
[00:15:41] wanted to like, what is your gut reaction? My gut reaction was, you disgusting motherfuckers are back in power again. I'm out. I don't want to look at this anymore because this is indicative of what the country is feeling right now. And I'm out.[00:16:00]
[00:16:00] Jolene: Wow.
[00:16:01] Nicole: I went to
[00:16:02] bed.
[00:16:02] Jolene: watching?
[00:16:03] Nicole: I went to bed. I went to bed. , but then when I woke up in the morning and I saw that it was totally red, I was like, wow, there's a disconnect and we need to do something different.
[00:16:18] It wasn't like that pain after Hillary didn't win, where I felt like, oh my gosh, are we, the country doesn't like women? Like, I was very naive and very shocked, and I understand that you had your own feelings about her, and I didn't realize that a lot of people did.
[00:16:37] Jolene: I think for me, I didn't think Trump would win. I was a, Haley supporter. I thought Nikki Haley was going to be the first women president. And I was so excited. She had, she had all the qualifications. And so when it came to be that. We were stuck with Trump.
[00:16:55] I'm just like, what the hell? No, he can't win. I mean, he can't win.
[00:17:00] Nicole: how did you feel when she endorsed him?
[00:17:03] Jolene: at that point she had to, because at that point she could either not endorse anyone, right? I mean, she could not give an endorsement or endorse him. I mean, those were her choices. And I mean, it, it. It was how I felt about voting for Trump. I mean, I did, I absolutely didn't want Kamala. And so if those were my choice, I mean, those were my choices.
[00:17:26] And I considered not voting till about probably three weeks before the election. Just like, God, they're both suck.
[00:17:34] Nicole: So, I want our politicians to have more courage. I wanted Nikki to not endorse him. Everyone is so afraid of him. Like there's power. It's all power.
[00:17:48] Jolene: Well, so I think it was so close that Nikki Haley, listen, she doesn't want to work for him. She doesn't need his blessing. She doesn't, she wants nothing to do with
[00:17:59] Nicole: why? [00:18:00] So, but so why did she endorse him? Like, that's what, like.
[00:18:02] Jolene: Because I think it was so close that like we needed all the Republicans had to be on board. Like you couldn't have someone sitting out.
[00:18:10] I mean, I think that was the fear that people were either going to, not vote for him and, and sit out. , and that would be even worse.
[00:18:19] Nicole: he won the popular vote by millions. Like this was a very different election. I think that's like, when I woke up, I was like, we can't hide behind the electoral college or any of that. You can't lie. You can't, we can't lie to ourselves. We have to like, do something different here.
[00:18:38] If we want Democrats in power.
[00:18:40] Jolene: You know, we saw, you know, blacks and Hispanics and, Asians voting for him that never Jews, you know, right. So, I mean, I think that there was with the exception of women suburban white women, I think everybody else was like, God, no, we can't, we need to change.
[00:18:59] And she, and Kamala wasn't change. She was the same old Democratic party. And the fact that they didn't acknowledge that is, I think what, you know, what killed them. You were not surprised that he won.
[00:19:14] Nicole: I was bummed out that he won. I didn't know what was gonna happen, honestly.
[00:19:20] Jolene: were you devastated?
[00:19:21] Nicole: No, I felt like we had to get to work. that's what was so different than when Hillary lost. I felt so sad and heartbroken. But this time, because it was clearly such a landslide, Not just Trump, but all of, I mean, Congress only has a slight lead. It's pretty even people want change. So, and I was frustrated as a Democrat that I think we're stuck in this machine and we're, and we're not actually listening to what the people want.
[00:19:53] you know, we want people that, actually want to think outside the box and we could go [00:20:00] back to should Hillary have actually been the candidate and not Bernie, you know, or, the fact that Biden said that he was going to be a one term president, and then he went back on his word, all these people have so much ego, like, let it go.
[00:20:17] And then in the, you know, he has this horrible, uh, debate performance where I thought he was stroking out. And then it's like, I'm gonna have Kamala do it. So you didn't even ask the people.
[00:20:31] Jolene: Right.
[00:20:32] Nicole: And I, and I said this to you before, like, I felt for Kamala. Cause I'm like, throw the black woman under the bus. Like, really?
[00:20:42] Jolene: But she was the only one that could get his money. I mean, at that point, I mean
[00:20:46] Nicole: But she had to take his staff, she had to take his, like, there was no time, no room to do, to be her.
[00:20:55] Jolene: okay, so now looking back on that,, aren't people pissed that number one, she didn't have more time. Like he should have made that decision earlier. to, to bow out.
[00:21:06] Nicole: I think you say that you're gonna be a one term president, that's what you're gonna be. And then you have a primary. Where we decide, as Democrats, who, who's going to run. That's the bravest, coolest thing that he could have done. I think Biden has some good intentions.
[00:21:25] and maybe everybody goes in with good intentions. At the beginning. But it seems like the system is so corrupt that there's no room
[00:21:36] to do the right thing.
[00:21:38] What shocked you the most?
[00:21:39] Jolene: oh, that Trump won. and not that, I mean, I voted for him. I, I wanted him to win finally on election day because we had two choices at that point, and I thought that Kamala was not, that that was going to be a huge mistake, that it was going to be a continuation of the Biden policies.
[00:21:59] [00:22:00] And I just, I mean, I align with the Republican party on their policies more than I did. So even if I, even if I would have liked Kamala better, I still don't think that I could have voted for a Democrat
[00:22:15] Nicole: Have you ever voted for a Democrat?
[00:22:17] Jolene: um, for governor when we lived in New Mexico. but not for a presidential
[00:22:23] Nicole: And why did you vote for that person?
[00:22:26] Jolene: because the Republican candidate,, and this was, God, this was so long ago, was a horrible candidate the Democrat had experience and I don't like it remember specifically now, but yeah,
[00:22:37] Nicole: Did you feel like you were betraying something when you voted for her?
[00:22:41] Jolene: no, it felt so good. It felt good to not just go along the party lines and to, you know, to think independently. And I, and I'm sure, I mean, I've voted for, you know, not that city council people are, , Aligned with a party, but I think there are, and when we lived in Fayetteville, there was a city councilman who, , pretty sure it was, was liberal, but they don't have, you know, R and D by their names, but I voted for him just because he did a lot of great things for our, our neighborhood.
[00:23:10] Nicole: I mean, that's the thing. Those are the real change makers,
[00:23:13] right? also, the media is so focused on national politics versus local politics, that that's what we all focus on. Right?
[00:23:23] Jolene: What surprised me is that the reaction to the, to the election, that the whole conversation about your social circle, that you don't have conservative people in your circle. And, and I get it, and especially in New York. I mean, right? I mean, there just aren't a lot of conservatives in, in Manhattan,
[00:23:41] Nicole: Well, let's see, but, but he did, you know, Trump got close to winning, it's very clear that either people have become more conservative or they just want something different
[00:23:54] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:23:56] Nicole: or they know it's so unpopular [00:24:00] and they'll get, muzzled if they say anything that, that we as liberals don't.
[00:24:07] Like
[00:24:08] Jolene: right,
[00:24:09] Nicole: a liberal city.
[00:24:10] Jolene: but I think it's also unfair for, for me to criticize you for not having any more conservative friends because you're, living in a, in a very liberal city, you work in a liberal, , leaning industry, for me to say that that's the most shocking thing only because, well, and I mean, I live in Southwest Missouri where Jesus is our savior and Trump is our president.
[00:24:35] Nicole: really?
[00:24:37] Jolene: There's a sign there is a sign. Yeah down the road.
[00:24:41] Nicole: You've seen like the prayer, where they're
[00:24:44] like praying
[00:24:44] Jolene: the prayer candles.
[00:24:45] Nicole: and they're praying with him, like putting their hands on him.
[00:24:49] Jolene: Oh, he needs all the prayers he can get.
[00:24:51] Nicole: No shit,
[00:24:51] Jolene: not opposed. I am not opposed to praying for him at all. You should do more praying for him. We should do, we should do more praying for all of our leaders. No question.
[00:25:08] Nicole: You can do the praying for me,
[00:25:09] too. In our, thoughts and
