Do we need a wall at the southern border?
Immigration: a hot-button topic that conjures knee-jerk reactions from racism to compassion, depending on who you ask. It's a question of humanity, security, and policy—a multifaceted issue that's as confusing as it is consequential. In this article, we are doing our best to discuss the issues with border security at the United States' southern border, and how the media portrays the situation differently depending on what state you’re living in.
Nicole kicked things off by highlighting that, for some, the word 'immigration' triggers thoughts of racism, hate, and fears about national integrity. Jolene reflected alongside, pointing out that images of the southern border often bring out concerns about chaos and lack of control—especially for conservatives like herself. We both agreed that these initial reactions, while visceral, are worth taking a look at in more detail.
Tales from the Border
Our conversation ventured into the real and often heart-wrenching scenes at the border. From migrants trekking perilous paths across the Rio Grande to the troubling instance of families being bused to different states as political statements, these stories paint a vivid picture of desperation and hope for a better life. It's a reality that impacts New York, where Nicole resides and it poses a central question: How do we balance compassion with security?
Throughout our discussion, it became apparent that perspectives on immigration differ tremendously based on media consumption. Jolene's insights from conservative news showcased ongoing, unmanaged border influx, while Nicole highlighted broader narratives focusing on individual journey struggles. The disparity in coverage underscores a vast gap in understanding that often fuels division rather than fostering solutions.
The Need for Rules and Reform
We agreed that while humanizing immigrants' stories is vital, so too is the structure of immigration policy. Jolene pressed on the notion that without rules, bad actors are free to exploit open borders. Nicole concurred that the immigration system is indeed a mess and called for more creativity and bipartisanship in solving it, advocating for hearts and minds to converge on pragmatic solutions.
The Symbolism of a Wall
When discussing the physical border wall, Nicole expressed that its implications extend beyond the structure itself —it symbolizes the country's stance on the lack of openness and inclusion. For Jolene, while the wall represents a piece of the puzzle, it is far from the comprehensive solution necessary for genuine reform.
Ultimately, we both believe that the border security issue calls for a coalition—regardless of political affiliation—that genuinely seeks human-centric approaches. Immigration isn't just a 'hot topic'; it's the lived reality of countless individuals seeking safety and opportunity in America.
The dialogue on immigration and border security is ongoing. Our aim is to keep questioning, shedding light, and rejecting the oversimplification that often dominates this narrative. Here's to understanding and pursuing better paths forward.
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Jolene: Today we are gonna be talking about immigration.
Nicole: Really.
Jolene: Okay. But here's why I feel like this was, this was one of the reasons that Trump won. I think it was one of the big reasons why he won, and I think we've got to talk about it because , I think there's a lot of misconceptions from both sides on what both sides believe or perceive to be the truth.
So we've gotta talk about it.
Nicole: how about we start with the knee jerk reaction to immigration and what, as a conservative, when you, when you hear that word, what is your knee-jerk reaction?
Jolene: the southern border, Uh, there has been a mess up at the border and we've let, we've just let everyone in and there's been zero control. What's yours?
Nicole: The knee jerk reaction to immigration to that word is, um, [00:01:00] racism. Hate, uh, making the country smaller,
Jolene: okay. As a New Yorker, how does it affect you?
Nicole: in New York, it affects us greatly. It's been a mess. New York City has been a mess. I was heartbroken when, uh, governor Abbott started, ma, you know, basically using humans and throwing them on buses and sending them to blue states.
To prove a point. Um, I can only imagine how difficult it's been on Texas, which is, you know, the major entry. but to use human beings that way, I found disgusting. and in terms of it affecting our daily life, yeah, it's, I've lived in New York City for 30. years, like an, an [00:02:00] almost whole adult, I guess really a 34-year-old is an adult. and, I've never seen more, immigrants on subways, young women with little babies selling chiclets. I mean, this is never, this is, it's heartbreaking. And as New Yorkers, you start to become completely numb.
Jolene: Mm-hmm.
Nicole: It's everywhere.
families selling wares, you know, blankets and shirts and, and little babies looking at their iPhones, their little babies like, and it's, it's a mess.
Jolene: what about crime?
Nicole: Uh, crime is really up in New York City. It's not an immigrant problem. yes, there are some immigrants that have committed crimes, I would imagine, but that I find also a, a gateway towards racism. Crime has absolutely gone up in New York City since the pandemic. [00:03:00] Uh, the subway systems are a total mess.
Our mayor is horrible. He's horrible. He's horrible, and he was a cop. but I think that the crimes that are being committed, There's a lot of people that are in very desperate situations, and they're not immigrants. They're New Yorkers that don't I don't even, I can't even really speak to it, but the crime is up, but it's not to do with immigrants.
Jolene: When you hear, because I, I think the, the, the person that set the person on fire, the, the woman on fire, on the subway was an immigrant. that doesn't strike a chord,
Nicole: incident was so horrifying and to find out that this was a. Obviously incredibly ill, immigrant,
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: uh, it doesn't bode well for immigrants and the case against, [00:04:00] uh, tightening the borders. and what I also, 'cause I'm, I, I, I'm struggling to say this because when you get into the mental illness conversation, it seems to sort of wipe out, like we just sort of throw our hands up. And obviously there's a huge problem with a lot of people that are not well. like for instance, and I don't know how this is gonna come off. I have friends that are Middle Eastern and every time there is a, um, terrorist attack or a a, a US terrorist attack, they are praying that it's not a Middle Eastern person.
Jolene: yeah. Oh, I'm sure.
Nicole: right. Because you're, you're like, no, don't make this harder on us than it already is. So, so in terms of that person that set the woman on fire, I mean, what the fuck?
Jolene: so you can't identify. So, okay, so, and maybe that wasn't even a good example because that happened
Nicole: maybe it
Jolene: the narrative,
Nicole: but
[00:05:00] Jolene, maybe it is because I think that you, like in the conservative media, that is gold. That is gold.
Jolene: Well, that's what I'm saying. Maybe that has been publicized because he was an immigrant and illegal, you know, here illegally. And so, you know, hey, we let him in, this is what's gonna happen. And that was politicized. So I think maybe, I think the thing that is probably for me more threatening and, and more, something I think that that is a real problem is the, the gangs, the Ven, I think, I think they're Venezuelan gangs. The, and they've got a name, but they're like the, uh, Aurora, Colorado. now, they have, you know, sleeper cells throughout the United States because they have come from, from Venezuela. Um, and I mean, they are like legitimate gangs that are ruthless.
Nicole: but where are you hearing this?
this [00:06:00] sounds not made up, but it sounds exaggerated for political purposes, like the eating of the animals, that kind of thing.
Jolene: Okay.
Nicole: Right. And I'm not saying that there aren't Venezuelan gangs that have come to United States and have, 'cause there are, there are gangs everywhere in the United States, but this I think is part of the issue is you're hearing these sound bites that I don't even know what you're talking about. and I'm gonna be honest with you, Jolene, it's a problem. I don't think you're wrong. The border is a problem. It's a mess. There are so many people in New York City that are.
Unhoused, as they call it, and there were so many before and now there's tens of thousands more like it's a problem.
Jolene: do you think that there should have been more done to stop the influx of immigrants across the [00:07:00] border, or do you think it was fine that there was no stopping. People at the border.
Nicole: I'm guessing that that's what you believe. 'cause you're asking me that question.
Jolene: I, I, yeah, so that's why I wanna know is that something that I just believe or is that something you believe that the borders were open and, and people were coming in willy-nilly.
Nicole: so, so let's backtrack a second. What do you believe is happening at the border? Because I guess I also ask you this because what I find wild is the people that seem the most, um, upset about the border live in tiny towns, that they're not really affected.
all I know is that it's a really hard, it's really hard to get to the border, It's really dangerous, and that in order to make that journey, things must be really awful. You need to come to this country and that this is a bright hope for you. I'm assuming that it's not like Disneyland and people are like, like, here's the door. Go on [00:08:00] in.
Jolene: did you see any of, um, of the footage of people coming across the border, like crossing the, the Rio Grande and coming into and being helped does that resonate at all?
Nicole: I know that I saw footage of, you know, people drowning, people making it across. I mean, obviously when Trump was in power before and he separated kids from their parents, and there's some that are still not reunited,
Jolene: Do you know that there's more that are, that are separated now more under Biden than there were with Trump? There are 320,000 kids that are not with their parents that are separated right now under Biden
Nicole: and how do you know that?
Jolene: News,
Nicole: what news?
Jolene: probably the only news that reports on it, Fox News, snooze and I, but I think that's the point, right? Is that,
Nicole: That, but that's what you're being told. 'cause I've never been told that. Right. What? In listening to my New York Times daily to [00:09:00] my NPR, to my, now, now I'm all tangle all the time. So
Jolene: Yes. We both love tangle.
Nicole: love tangle, shout out to tangle. 'cause I really feel like it's so, it's so fucked up what we're going through.
I, I'm hearing these stats and I'm like, what are you talking about? You're hearing stats and saying, what are you talking about? And I'm looking at you and you know, we've been friends for almost 40 years and I love you to death. And we laugh our asses off. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Right? But there isn't one moment that I'm like, you're stupid. I'm, I just am like, what's going on? 'cause I'm actually more angry at what's going on.
Jolene: Right.
Nicole: That's why we're here.
Jolene: Well, so I think that's why I, I think we have to look at what our perspectives are and, and the fact that that. I have been fed this information of, watching, if you watch Fox News every morning, and, and they [00:10:00] would even tout that they were the only news station that was bringing the stories of these immigrants coming across the border.
And, you know, we lived in Texas for most of our married life. I have a friend who immigrated, I mean, who crossed the border as an 18-year-old girl, , in the back of a trunk. And, um, I mean, she has horror stories to talk about paying a coyote and trying to get, so, I mean, listening. I mean, and I get it and I get that if we were not lucky enough to be, have been born in this country and.
You know, life was so shitty, uh, in Mexico. I, I would ask my husband, you know, get, get us to America. I, so I get it. however, when I think that there is such a different conversation between, you know, getting families out of, you know, desperate situations that are, that are horrible. And when your government is being run by, you know, the gangs and the [00:11:00] cartels and that the government can't do anything.
I mean that your police aren't doing anything because it's the cartels that are actually doing it governing. But the problem with the border was that there are other people coming. huge Chinese population coming
Nicole: Coming from the border.
Jolene: yes, getting to Mexico and coming up through the border because that's how they could get in.
And so.
Nicole: I, I mean, I know nothing about this and I don't, I'm assuming that you're hearing this on Fox.
Jolene: But again, if they're the only ones reporting, this I mean, is it true?
Nicole: I'm going to think that there could be half truths I don't know if you remember that movie back, I think it was in the nineties, called Wag the Dog. I.
Jolene: the dog. God, I loved that
Nicole: Right.
Jolene: so much. Tr so
Nicole: so much truth. So as I said that, I was like, well, I guess Fox could stage the whole thing. so could, um, M-S-N-B-C, I mean, they all can, everything's become such a clickbait, [00:12:00] right?
So you're, you are coming to this conversation saying, this is what I know, and I'm like, it is. I don't know this, I'm not saying you're wrong. Because, I don't know, I'm not at the border. I've never been to the border. I don't know, you know, I'd hear about the wall, the, that they were gonna make this big wall.
And I found that quite hypocritical. Again, like we talked about in the last episode, about growing up as free to be you and me and thinking we're all supposed to be together. And I find that quite ugly, I do understand immigrants that have come legally or have gone through the legal process, how frustrated that they might must be.
That I, I get, I get it. I think that when, when we lump everyone together, it's a big problem. I think it's also why we're here, right? I'm not gonna lump you into the [00:13:00] MAGA clan. I know you're not a MAGA person, right? I'm not gonna s and you know, I'm not a, is it called Antia?
Antia? What is it called? Antia.
Jolene: Antifa. Antifa. Antifa. Yeah. Yeah,
Nicole: Antifa, like, I, I don't, I don't even know what that is, honestly. Like, I, like whatever is the extreme left. I'm not that. And so I would imagine, like you said, that there's gonna be people that are in such dire situations that they're like, I, I will risk my life.
I have to get out of here. And then there are some people are like, well, Joe lives across the border and. I, I heard I can get a better job and I'm, I'm sure that there are all kinds of people, but we lump them together and like, these people are bad. These people are good and.
Jolene: Okay, so, but don't you have to have a rule. Don't you have to have a law then that doesn't, I mean, so you and I can both agree that, um, there are people that really need to come to America to get out [00:14:00] of horribly, you know, desperate situations. Families that don't want their, don't raise their kids and, Horrible conditions. But with that though, also allows bad actors to get in, you know, people that want to harm America and get in here and, and whether it's a terrorist or so we have to have some rules.
Nicole: I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. I don't think there should be some open door policy. I think that the immigration system is a complete mess,
and I think everyone kicks the can, and I think it's an enormous, Puzzle that if we all came together with like really good minds and be creative about it, we could figure it out.
But there's so much bipartisanship that everyone's like, it's your fault. It's your fault. Nothing fucking gets done. But then these human beings are the ones that get totally screwed.
Jolene: but you don't like the idea of [00:15:00] a wall? Of a border wall.
Nicole: It seems so fucking sad. It just seems so sad to me I think it's more complicated than the wall
Jolene: I think the wall is a piece of it. You're right, it is much more complicated that we, we've gotta have more judges so that the, so that the legal
Nicole: oh yeah. The, the legal systems is completely so the, there are not enough judges. They're completely tapped out. we're acting like all these human beings are, I don't know, pieces of meat. There's like, it's just such a disconnect and it's a mess. These judges are burned out. I just, I feel like the wall is more of a symbol than a deterrent. I feel like it's a symbol of our shutting off.
Jolene: Which I think is interesting that you say that because you are so well traveled,
Nicole: Yes.
Jolene: it's hard to get into other countries, [00:16:00] right? I mean, you can't just walk across a border
and get
Nicole: but I don't, but can you just walk across the border here?
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: that's what Fox News is showing you.
Jolene: Yeah,
Nicole: maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's harder than that. I.
Jolene: it is not, I mean, I have seen the footage and, and
Nicole: But how do you know the footage is real?
Jolene: oh gosh. Because they can't make that stuff up. I mean, they were
Nicole: can they, they could wag the dog.
Jolene: Oh, I know, but I don't think when they have, when they are showing, you know, helicopter shots of people going through the river, there were border patrol agents that were helping, you know, women out of the river.
and they're not being processed, or if they're being processed, then they're just, they're, they're let go and they're not being, again, the system's overwhelmed. And so then. There's no one, you know, they're, their processing dates are, you know, four years from now.
Nicole: Mm-hmm.
Jolene: And so, I mean, what do you do in the meantime?
Nicole: I don't know what you do. I [00:17:00] don't think we're that far off. I'm just sort of concerned and upset that. You're getting visuals that I don't get
Jolene: that is concerning.
Nicole: it concerns me too, Jolene, because I mean, news at this point is so much about entertainment and getting you and getting their point across.
So to me, like Fox is just going, ha, we did it. We've got you all fit. Like all of you are all afraid and that sucks.
Jolene: Okay. But, if it's real.
Nicole: Because here's the thing, Jolene, so you're seeing this stuff in your gorgeous, from what I can tell, your gorgeous home, new home. I love seeing that view the other day.
in rural southwest Missouri and you're seeing these images and it's charging you up, right? It, I, 'cause I hear shit too, and it's like. [00:18:00] And when, and I think it was really important when we started like outlining how we wanted to talk about these things, that how does it affect us? And we also have to keep ourselves in check.
Like, okay, What's really going on here? Are they just trying to get you upset?
Jolene: I think there's two things that that come to mind. so all of these people coming across the border have to go somewhere. So back to your point when, when Governor Abbott then started busing them to, you know,
Nicole: New York, Utah,
Jolene: but wait, didn't they, didn't they take him to, um, the Hamptons in there, drop 'em off in the Hamptons?
Nicole: and they're human beings.
Jolene: I mean, what better place to go? Oh my God. If you're gonna come to the United States, don't you wanna go to the Hamptons?
Nicole: They don't speak any English. Jolene, shame on you. No,
no,
Jolene: the Hamptons for not speaking Spanish.
Nicole: Shame on you for laughing. God damnit. And I just took the Lord's name and [00:19:00] Vine.
Jolene: Well, I'll pray for you. Um, I'll keep you in my thoughts and my prayers. I. okay. Uh, so, okay, going back, um, it, it overwhelms, okay, wait, I gotta answer this. So it overwhelms those communities where. Obviously those, those border towns, uh, you know, Eagle Pass, Texas was the one that was always on the news.
Um, you know, that it completely overwhelmed the small community. Well, so then when they start dispersing throughout the United States and, and esp, you wanna talk about Southwest Missouri in these, in these small school districts, then. Who are trying to, you know, provide schooling.
Um, you know, so they're increasing their, their, their classroom size and they're having to hire more teachers for ESL, you know, English as a second language. Um, and, you know, acclimating these kids and, and god bless 'em for doing it right. I mean, thank goodness that we are, [00:20:00] we are taking these kids in.
But then it start, when you start giving the social services to them. Pretty soon the budgets are running, are running out, and so that's gonna increase our taxes because now we're gonna have to support, an increase in these, um, in social services for our community, but also, you know, in the school district.
So,
Nicole: So you're feeling that there.
Jolene: yes. Yeah. Yeah, if you could talk to any of the local school teachers, they're completely overwhelmed and they were, God, they were overwhelmed after coming outta Covid as it was.
And,
Nicole: Oh my
god
Of course.
Jolene: and, and so now this is like an extra thing that they didn't, that they, you know, weren't prepared for.
Nicole: do you have thoughts on a solution
Jolene: I think we gotta close the border. and I'm telling you, it is very easy to cross the border right now. There is no
Nicole: your Fox News footage.
Jolene: No, this is actually even coming from [00:21:00] our family friend who owns a, a ranch in Laredo. it's bad and it's horrible because there are immigrants coming on their ranch, and if they're hunting. I mean, how scary is that, that they're like, oh, nope. And that's just a group of people.
and especially if it's happening in the summer, these kids are, you know, I mean, especially if you, are you talking kids and stuff, we just, we can't, we've got to make it a deterrent because right now it's so easy. We are welcoming people to cross the border, and that's the wrong thing to do.
Nicole: so do you think that, you think that this was the number one issue that why Trump got elected?
Jolene: I do, I think that you had Kamala as the, the border czar, and she didn't do anything about it
Nicole: I have thoughts about that because give that woman the hardest fucking job and don't, and don't give her any support.
Jolene: And say, go fix it. Go
Nicole: go fix it lady. Go fix it. And here's the thing, like she was so popular at the very [00:22:00] beginning, at least in our circles, the liberal circle. and she made some, gaffes.
As one would in the public eye, I guess all the time, and they were like, oh, this girl, we gotta pull her out. Let's throw her on the border. I mean, that's,
Jolene: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Nicole: come on, let's throw her into the presidency. Like that woman has been fucking thrown or like deal with it. And so, okay, borders are, what a stupid name.
Jolene: so, okay Anne, that the Democrats didn't realize or wouldn't, acknowledge that there was a problem.
Nicole: I'm with you. We're not in disagreement here.
Jolene: Yeah,
Nicole: It's a problem.
Jolene: yeah,
Nicole: think we need truly a. I don't care who these people are. Just really smart, creative, heart forward people.
Jolene: yeah.
Nicole: They can be Republican, they can be [00:23:00] Democrat. I don't give a shit, but really like they have this Doge bullshit. I know you love the
Jolene: Oh, I love the Doge.
Nicole: Is it Doge?
Jolene: the fat.
Nicole: So let's get another group together to fix this. Like don't put it on one. Group, like actually humanize the experience and fix it. I mean, we've talked about why we're here. We wanna humanize this conversation and really talk about things and not just get pissed and go stand in our corners.
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: Right?
Jolene: Yeah, a hundred percent. so Uncle Donald, if you need two people to, um,
to take this on,
Nicole: called him Uncle Donald. That's so gross. But Donald, if you need two people and we'll go find some other people,
Jolene: I am gonna close the border and Nicole will, um,
will treat people. Yes. We'll treat, we'll, give them a welcome bag.
Nicole: a welcome bag. [00:24:00] Unbelievable. Unbelievable. No, seriously, we do need to get more judges. I mean there's, there is, this has to be fixable.
Jolene: Right. How can it not be right?
Nicole: It's hard and it's gonna take some time, but it has to be fixable. But I feel like we just are in this place where we just fight, fight, fight, fight, nothing gets fixed.
'cause it's like, whether it's the Democrats or the Republicans, they're like, well, if this is Trump's administration's idea, fuck them. Let's
block it.
Jolene: Yep. Which is actually what happened when Congress finally tried to get a build together a border bill and Trump goes, mm-hmm. Republicans. Don't, don't do it because this is what, this is one of the things I'm running on and so and so the Republicans are like, oh, nice, nice.
Last ditch effort here to come up with something to try to save your ass. Nope, not gonna do it. We're gonna wait till the next, till the
Nicole: But that's, it's so,
Jolene: It's
Nicole: that's so [00:25:00] dis It's so disappointing. Right? You're
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: I, I live in this naive world, but like, Trump have some confidence that you're gonna win anyway, don't you? Aren't you trying to do thi good things for the country? No. You're trying to get elected.
Jolene: a hundred percent. But that is politics. I mean, that is
Nicole: But don't you think Jolene, that it's gotten way worse?
Jolene: Oh, a hundred percent. Oh, absolutely. Yes.
Nicole: Ah, so we can agree on this, that it's gotten worse. Is there anything that I said today that surprised you?
Jolene: yeah. That you didn't, that you've not seen any footage of the people coming across the border. I like, I just thought that that was a known, that that was a given. And that's so weird because you're right, it's, it's me watching Fox News that sees that and no one else covered it.
Nicole: like, there was a daily 'cause I listen to the Daily, the New York Times Daily podcast every day. [00:26:00] and they did a, a spotlight on a journey and how harrowing it was. That's the information that I got. Seeing people trying to cross the, the Rio Grande, is that
what it is?
but not seeing that there's like this welcome party that you're just like walking through and, okay, I'm in America. I've never seen it. I don't watch Fox News at all. I don't even, I have friends that'll turn it on. Well, even my husband will turn it on too. Just out of curiosity, how, what are, what are other people seeing?
And I think it would behoove all of us to see what everyone else is seeing, because I just kind of feel like we're all being tricked.
Jolene: I agree because we are absolutely. Only believing what we see, obviously. But what we see is just being propagated so much that, [00:27:00] I mean, that we get to see more and more and more. I mean, it's in our feeds, right? I mean, if you start looking at immigration on your feed, then that's all you're gonna get.
And it's, it's
Nicole: And they're And and, yeah. And they're feeding the beast. They're feeding the fear.
Jolene: Feeding the beast. That is
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah, and, and you, it's very controlling fear. and I found, we talked about this before where, um, once you and I decided, decided to do this podcast that I take in information totally differently Now.
I, it's not that I doubt it, but I'm like, okay, I'm gonna hear this, and then I'm gonna hear that and I'm gonna figure out what I, what I actually believe they want reaction on both sides. 'cause that way they get to stay in power.
Jolene: Oh, a hundred percent. It's funny too that you said that about Josh watching. Fox every once in a while I used to, and my schedule doesn't allow for it anymore, [00:28:00] but I used to watch CNN wide workout in the morning, so I'd watch an hour of CNN and then I would go take a shower and get ready and have fox on.
So back to back hours. And the difference in the story, like they were covering the same stories, but the spin on those were so different and, and it was so enlightening to see, oh. Okay, so I get, I get what they're saying and then you go, oh, nope. That is exactly how that has just been spun so differently.
What shocked you about anything I said I.
Nicole: I think actually the, the same thing, the border, the border images. I was like, what are you talking about? It just seemed. Truly, it just seems so wag the dog
Jolene: Mm-hmm.
Nicole: and, and it feels, and I'm saying this without having seen anything, that I dunno, being in a performer, being in this world, like you can make people believe [00:29:00] pretty much anything.
Jolene: it was literally the same reporter who sat on the border for, I mean, sat at an eagle. I mean, I think it was an Eagle Pass, Texas, for months. Showing the story. Telling the story because it wasn't being told by anyone else. So I, I'm, I will find it and I will send it to you.
Nicole: Okay. I appreciate that. And I feel like the solutions that there really haven't been any solutions. There have been great symbols, but they're lazy. This is a difficult thing and I think that, I don't know if, if the average voter understands how complicated it is, how difficult it is. That's not an excuse not to do anything about it, and I don't think this administration's gonna do that because he clearly was like, don't, don't vote on this because I want in.
Jolene: I do think he'll do something about it. I think this is a, again, I, I think it's a hot topic that he ran on [00:30:00] and will fix
God willing.
Nicole: if he can fix it, I won't hate him so much. I'll go that far. I'll go
that far. From your lips to God's ears.
won't hate him so much. How about that? All right. I think we should wrap this stuff up and we should talk about, would you rather.
Jolene: Okay, you go first.
Nicole: Oh boy. I actually spent time like writing out all of the Democrats and here's the thing that's funny, like I was looking at all the senators and all the representatives, which I don't know most of them, and all the governors, and the hilarious thing in my mind is I'm like, oh, I like them.
I like them. Oh, is she not gonna like them? Like to, and then I would look at the Republicans, I go, oh, I've gotta put them down. I'm like, [00:31:00] no, no, no. Wait. She might like them so she might not be repulsed the way I am repulsed. Right.
Jolene: Okay. Give it to me.
Nicole: who would you rather have? dinner with Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton.
Jolene: this is so easy for me because I actually have a buttload of respect for Nancy Pelosi.
Nicole: Okay. That's, That's, the surprise. That's my surprise. Now I'm surprised that's there it is.
Jolene: It's there. That's the surprise. No, I'm telling you.
She was a hell. Oh, now listen to me. She was a hell of a speaker. Like, like the role of of Madame Speaker was. To get votes, right? She could whip those votes. she could get people to do what she wanted them to do. And I look at the power that she had.
I mean, she was a [00:32:00] formidable force. So absolutely. Now, now I don't agree with most of the things that she does and, and all that, but as a, as a powerful woman, she's got balls I admire that. Hillary? No, sorry.
Nicole: I know how you feel about her. Wow, that's amazing. I love that.
Jolene: Okay,
Nicole: love that. Yes.
Yes.
Jolene: okay. Here's, would you rather, would you rather have CVID or the flu?
Nicole: Oh my God. Okay. Well, here's the funny thing. Um, I have never had covid, I've had a gazillion covid shots, and I've had the flu many times in my life. My husband has it right now.
he's on mega flu, mega Tamiflu dose, and I'm on the preventative dose. I would prefer to have the flu. I, I think, I mean, Josh and I both have never had covid.
Jolene: Yeah, we haven't [00:33:00] either.
Nicole: isn't that wild. We might be the only four
people that have never had covid. I do think we're the chosen ones from God.
Oh, oh, okay. The chosen, uh, conservative and chosen liberal people
Jolene: I mean, have covid. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. He's trying to tell us something.
Nicole: What would he be trying to tell us
Jolene: He, he's keeping us safe.
Nicole: so that we can keep talking about
Jolene: We have like tiger blood. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nicole: do you still get shots?
Jolene: no. So we got the, we both in got the initial Pfizer, you know, the two shot. Um, but that's all. I've never gotten a booster after I got the two shots, but I haven't gotten anything after that.
And Jeff got one booster, but, but nothing after that. Okay. But, but I also don't get a flu shot. I don't, I know we talked about this earlier. I don't, I don't believe in the flu shot. and this is just my own belief, this is not, this is not [00:34:00] rooted in anything. I just think that your body, if you're, if you've got a healthy immune system, that your body can develop a natural immunity to the things around it, and it makes you have a stronger immunity now.
Uh, so that's why I just think the, that's why I don't get a flu shot. I think if you get the flu shot that you, you're not giving your body. You know, God gave us really amazing bodies that, can, you know, run amazingly. And so I think that that, um, that's naturally how we should handle things.
Covid I thought was different and I, listen, I. I got, I got the vaccine. I'm, uh, most of my family did not. And so I, and I that is fine. I also look at those.
In our family who didn't get it and they've had covid quite a few times and they get sick with it, so, but I respect their decision not [00:35:00] to. I get it. That's fine. That's their decision.
Nicole: yeah, I mean that's, this is a whole other topic. Um, the covid, but, but being in New York City, when it all went down, and
I, I knew five people that died and they were all different ages. They were from, uh, 23 to 90. 92. and it was horrifying. And, uh, Josh had just the year before, had stage three colon cancer and had just, you know, just gone through chemo.
And so there was so much fear. and so for us. getting a vaccine, waiting for the vaccine was, it was detrimental to our livelihood. And we came out to Utah during that time because we could both work remotely and it was wild to see the rest of, or another part of the country that just some [00:36:00] people didn't believe in it.
Uh, some people did, but the freedom to be. Even just go outside, which when you live in an apartment in New York, you, you, we were masked in the hallway. Like it was a very different experience. And so I understand the, the idea of it's their choice, but when you were in the epicenter of death, it was, I didn't feel that way.
It was about you need to protect other people
too. Um. We unfortunately lost, lost friends and, you know, and then with Josh, we'd been getting the co, you know, COVID shots and then he, he did the flu because he get it at work. I didn't, but because he did, I started and because of his. Cancer that is thankfully not there.
Um, I've been doing it and then my dad got cancer. So much cancer. And [00:37:00] so there's been a lot of vaccination for me to protect my loved ones that it isn't just about me, but clearly, you know, the flu shot doesn't always work. Josh is totally down for the count downstairs. So I don't know. I mean, there's so much shit going around.
I have a girlfriend in New York that has horrible covid and she's had covid like, I don't know, three or four times, and she said this was the worst strain ever. I mean, thankfully she's not dying, but she's not good, so.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: So on that note.
Jolene: Wow.
Nicole: All right, doll.
Jolene: Thank you my friend,
