Liberal and Conservative Compare Fox News vs MSNOW
A year and a half ago, when we started our podcast, Jolene and I had this uncomfortable realization. When we listened or watched the news, we were only consuming news that aligned with our viewpoint. Jolene had her conservative sources, I had my liberal ones, and even when we agreed on the basic facts, the emotional tone was completely different depending on what news we had been consuming. Same country, same week, two totally different journalism (or lack thereof).
So we cleaned up our media diet. We added in places that show you more than one angle, like Ground News, Tangle, Mo News, 1440, Straight Arrow News. We wanted to be less easily played. We wanted to be able to disagree without immediately assuming the other person had been brainwashed by their chosen channel.
This week, my husband Josh, suggested a new experiment. A week of Fox News and MSNow. Full immersion. No cherry-picking clips on social media, no “I saw a headline and that counts.” Just sit with it, the way millions of people do, and see what it does to your brain.
Spoiler alert. It did not make us smarter.
What it did, almost immediately, was make us anxious. Both networks seemed to have the same core strategy, even though they’d never admit it. Keep you slightly scared, slightly angry, and just certain enough that you don’t go looking elsewhere. They covered a lot of the same stories, but the framing was engineered to pull you toward their preferred conclusion. It wasn’t “here’s what happened.” It was “here’s what happened and here’s who you should blame and here’s why you should be worried.”
Jolene’s take was basically, why are they talking to me like I’m an idiot? Like I need to be coached into the correct emotion. Like the world is so dangerous I should be grateful they’re here to translate it for me. And my reaction was more blunt. It felt like entertainment. Shock-jock news. A performance with a news ticker. The goal wasn’t to help me think. The goal was to keep me watching.
The part that really stings is when you’re in it every day, it doesn’t feel like manipulation. It feels like being responsible. Like you’re doing your civic duty. Like you’re aware of what is going on in the world. But after a week, we could see the pattern. We weren’t coming away with more clarity. We were coming away more defensive, more judgemental, and weirdly more confident about things we hadn’t actually researched. That’s the trick. If you can get someone emotionally activated, they’ll mistake intensity for insight.
The other thing we noticed is there simply isn’t enough actual news to fill 24 hours. There just isn’t. So when you build a business model around constant airtime, you have to stretch. You have to spice. You have to repeat. You have to add commentary until the commentary becomes the product. And if you’re not careful, you start living inside that tone, like the whole country is one long emergency and everyone you disagree with is either stupid or evil.
Meanwhile, real life is still happening.
Your neighbor is still taking their trash cans out. Your kid still needs a ride somewhere. Someone’s still bringing a casserole to a friend who’s sick. People are still mostly decent, mostly trying, mostly tired. But cable news doesn’t make money off “mostly.” It makes money off “everything is falling apart and it’s their fault.
So we’re not saying never watch it. We’re saying pay attention to what it does to you. If you feel your shoulders creeping up around your ears, if you’re doom-scrolling in your own living room, if you’re starting to hate strangers you’ve never met, that’s not being informed. That’s manipulation.
What helped us was choosing sources that trust you to have a brain. Places that show their work, that separate reporting from opinion, that don’t treat you like a toddler who needs a villain in every segment. Tangle. Straight Arrow. Ad Fontes Media as a way to check bias. Even just reading more than one source on the same story and noticing how different the framing is can pull you out of the trance.
The simplest antidote really is just go outside. Take a walk. Volunteer. Talk to actual humans. If you care about immigration, don’t just marinate in rage. Learn what’s happening locally. If you care about voting, help someone get to the polls. If you care about your community, do one small thing that makes it better. Action is the opposite of helplessness, and helplessness is what the outrage machine sells.
We’re not trying to be holier-than-thou about any of this. We’ve both been hooked. We’ve both confused “keeping up” with “being okay.” This was just a reminder that we have more control than we think. We can choose what we consume, and we can choose what kind of person it turns us into.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
We've Got To Talk Swamping News Sources for 10 days episode: https://youtu.be/5wtPeP8XwAk?si=pzJ5Ef_KL8gz5Yaw
Fox News Hourly Update: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fox-news-hourly-update/id209991975
Morning Joe podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/morning-joe/id974299441
Fox News: https://www.foxnews.com/
MSNOW: https://www.ms.now/
Ad Fontes Media Bias Chart: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ogbl#inbox/WhctKLcMXwDFFhPsrKpBzMQthJWlpPqMBfPBjHmsSpdtSpVvWkPWkqvrtqzXSNVTlvHTtBB
Tangle News: https://www.readtangle.com/
Mo News: https://www.mo.news/
Straight Arrow News: https://san.com/
Ground News: https://ground.news/
1440: https://join1440.com/
Isaac Saul of Tangle Ted Talk: https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=aEscLTxkXbGx39IR
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative, and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:19] Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome, my dear friend Jolene, and oh my gosh, today's episode. Can we talk about today's episode?
[00:00:29] Jolene: today's episode is full circle for us because when we first started this podcast about a year and a half ago, one of the things that we learned, being conservative, you being liberal, that, um, the news that we were consuming absolutely, was forcing us to think one way and keeping us in that lane.
[00:00:48] nicole: That's right
[00:00:48] Jolene: And you and I have learned then, over a year and a half, to watch more neutral news.
[00:00:54] nicole: Right
[00:00:54] Jolene: news from Ground News and from The Tangle and from 1440 and [00:01:00] M- Mo News and
[00:01:01] nicole: And straight arrow news. Mm-hmm.
[00:01:03] Jolene: or...
[00:01:03] nicole: Yes
[00:01:04] Jolene: have in our, in our algorithms now are feeding us that in Instagram and Facebook and all
[00:01:09] nicole: Right, right
[00:01:11] Jolene: But we decided to make this a little more painful for ourselves 'cause we're masochists
[00:01:18] nicole: So Jolene, bef- before you keep going, we will put in the show notes that original experiment. We took 10 days and swapped news sources. We had to pick three that we watched or listened to every day. And, and so we were taking in the opposites news, and it was so mind-blogging- blowing.
[00:01:36] But this time, thanks to my beloved husband, Josh, he was like, "I've got 2.0 for you ladies." Right, Joe? He was like, "Here we go." He says, what did he say?
[00:01:47] Jolene: said, "You, Jolene," no, he s- he say s- said to both of
[00:01:53] nicole: Угу.
[00:01:53] Jolene: "Watch MSN," which was MSNBC,
[00:01:57] nicole: Yes
[00:01:58] Jolene: Now, "and [00:02:00] Fox News. Compare them,
[00:02:01] nicole: every day for a week. It was the longest week of my life.
[00:02:09] Jolene: Here are my three takeaways. Number one, both of them are trying to scare us to death. Both of them are doom and gloom, th- everything is horrible, it's trying to get you to be more engaged and to get your outrage, um, up, and
[00:02:24] nicole: Угу
[00:02:26] Jolene: you into thinking that the other side absolutely is trying to their, their very best to end this world. I mean, it's doom and gloom.
[00:02:36] nicole: Угу, угу
[00:02:38] Jolene: a lot of the stories were the same. They, you know, they were cov- covering some of the, a, a lot of the hot topics that are going on, as news should. but they both had their twist on it. So you know, the liberal one would, would slant things and talk about the liberal, liberal aspect of it. Fox News would, would slant it to make it seem like, [00:03:00] um, it had a more conservative view and make it not sound as bad towards the administration or, you know, whatever the, whatever the story was about. So still getting your news, um, but they're telling you what to think about it. And that was my third thing: stop watching news. Because it made me unhappy, it made me anxious, it made me triggered. I felt like they, uh, treated me like I was so dumb that I, they needed to tell me the story and then what to think about it, instead of thinking for myself of what to do with the story. There is a phrase that I have used a lot lately in business, and it, and it just keeps coming up w- when I am watching the news now, and it's: don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining. And that is exactly I felt. I felt like they are, like I'm an idiot, and so they're just, I'm gonna believe [00:04:00] everything they have to say. How did you feel?
[00:04:03] nicole: Yes. Yes, and. so I have a very similar takeaways to you. Just to put it out there, I also listened to some of the podcast, Morning Joe, this Fox News hourly update. Oh my God, five minutes of ick every hour on the hour. watched on television, MS Now and, and Fox News.
[00:04:27] So okay, number one. My biggest takeaway from listening and watching to Fox News and MSNOW every day for a week is that we are being so manipulated. This is entertainment, shock jock news, and I am so glad that this assignment is over. Number two, the biggest advice that I could give to you, my dear listener, my dear viewer, Jolene and I value you guys so much.
[00:04:54] We love how you write to us and ask us questions and challenge us. If you're a [00:05:00] Fox News watcher or an MSNOW watcher, our advice is to stop watching it.
[00:05:06] Jolene: Get out.
[00:05:08] nicole: it does is keeps you feeling afraid. It makes you feel like this sort of, like, like this sort of anxious I... but I must keep watching. It's like this weird, addictive, like, like, let, let me keep being informed, but really let me keep feeling like shit.
[00:05:24] Like, let me, let me make sure that I hate the other side and, and it's just really odd. Number three, and again, you mentioned this at the very top. this assignment couldn't have made this more clear Fox News and MS Now, and I don't mean to insult some of the journalists that are there, but this isn't journalism.
[00:05:47] And now, thanks to maybe this divisive time, there are amazing news sources like that Jolene brought up at the top. Tangle News, Straight Arrow News, Ground News, 1440, Mo, [00:06:00] Mo News. Like, all these incredible news sources that actually, give you the benefit of the doubt. They say, "You- we trust you to think for yourself, to make your own decisions.
[00:06:13] We're just gonna tell you what's going on, and then you, conservative, liberal, progressive, socialist for that matter, I don't care, you, you decide what is best for you." and so basically, I just w- I have to take so many showers to get the ick off. Like, it was so, it was so yucky. And so I wanna say one thing to add, and I'll put this in the show notes, Brad Porteus, our friend Brad Porteus, drink.
[00:06:40] he introduced us to Ad Fontes Media, and they just released this really cool... They call it the New Flagship Media Bias Chart. and I'll put it in the show notes, and it has... They take 134 news media sources, and they graph it out as to where is it on the, where is it on the bias. Is it l- is it far [00:07:00] left?
[00:07:00] Is it far right? Is it in the middle? And I just think it's really cool to see it in picture form, all these different podcasts that you might, like, really value and trust, and that's part of your morning. And we are just suggesting, Jolene and I, after having, doing this experiment for you, holy moly, just be aware of what you're consuming.
[00:07:23] Because they are doing everything they can to manipulate you
[00:07:27] Jolene: they're not just podcasts, they're news, um,
[00:07:31] nicole: All of them
[00:07:32] Jolene: all of the broadcast news and, um, cable news, all of it. So
[00:07:37] nicole: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
[00:07:38] Jolene: interesting to, to look at that.
[00:07:39] okay, so tell me what were the biggest stories that you heard?
[00:07:46] nicole: Oh.
[00:07:47] Jolene: compare and contrast
[00:07:48] nicole: Well, thi-- W-- Y-
[00:07:49] Jolene: heard from
[00:07:50] nicole: yeah, I mean, I would say the bottom line for both, and you said this at the top, is that they did everything they could in their own slanty ways, like slanty [00:08:00] right, slanty left, doesn't matter, to scare the crap out of us for every single news, uh... Like, the world is ending, everybody, and you better be prepared.
[00:08:11] And the commercials, 'cause I listen to the commercials even though I didn't want to, to see what are they advertising? And it usually was like, "You're behind in AI. Do you need... You need this medication. buy from our Fox News wine store." Uh, that was news, news to me, except I would hear it every hour on the hour, and so that was like, "Got it.
[00:08:31] Thank you. Got it." but things like, the USS Lincoln story that was last Friday when we started this assignment was huge news. And it was-- And I made sure, because I wanted to understand also what the actual news was, so I was still reading and listening to f- to Mo News and to Straight Arrow and to, uh, Tangle, that they were all covering the USS Lincoln.
[00:08:57] And then MSNBC Now, or I guess it was [00:09:00] the Morning Joe podcast, they covered it as well. Fox did not cover it at all, on that Friday. They waited to acknowledge it on Saturday. I don't know why. That's what they did. and not to just lay it on Fox News, like Morning Joe and all the MSNBC Now shows, it, it...
[00:09:16] They just complained. They complained. They were whiny. They just bitched about Trump. And listen, I'm not a fan of his, and I don't think he's doing a great job. That's my opinion, but that's not news. It's just my opinion. Like, and if I sat here every week with you guys, it would be like, "Nicole, can you do something different?
[00:09:37] Everyone's still... Everyone's doing that," right, Joe? So, so that, that was something. There was just so much murder. I heard about murder cases I'd never heard about before. I was like, "Why are we... What?" Bus crashes, lots of lawla. I mean, that's, that's in the United States, and that's a big deal for us, for Americans.
[00:09:57] Jolene: okay. I, a- and I will say, like I, I [00:10:00] felt like the Iran war w-
[00:10:02] nicole: Yes.
[00:10:02] Jolene: the news
[00:10:03] nicole: Yes.
[00:10:04] Jolene: of
[00:10:04] nicole: Yes
[00:10:05] Jolene: rightfully so. I mean, they are news organizations, and that is newsworthy. both of them agreed, both Fox and MS Now said that the deadline had come, had come for that 60-day, um, ceasefire, and that no, um, no progress had been made.
[00:10:21] They both talked about that. They both talked about oil and gas prices being higher.
[00:10:25] but MS Now said that Iran has all of the leverage because they didn't have any, sort of leverage on the Strait of Hormuz to the war, but now they do. Whereas Fox News really talked about, being able to look at, um, sanctions, new economic sa- sanctions, and that Scott Bessent, the Treasury Secretary, said, you know, "This is going to be, you know, this is our next phase, and this is what we're gonna do."
[00:10:53] So it was like, both of them wanted their sides to win.
[00:10:58] nicole: Yeah. Yeah
[00:10:59] Jolene: [00:11:00] like it, again, it's, it, it's, it's insulting that you have to give me the news.
[00:11:05] nicole: Угу
[00:11:07] Jolene: what I, what to think about it. I, I get it
[00:11:09] nicole: Yeah. And also, it just reminded me, Joe, like, so today we're recording on Thursday, August 20th, and yesterday it was all over the news about the $40 trillion debt.
[00:11:20] by the time you see this, there will have been a Social Security episode that Jolene and I delved into, and we're very excited 'cause we're actually going to have a guest on, uh, later in the fall to, to help us understand the Social Security solvency issue.
[00:11:37] But in that episode, um, I was like, "What is the, what is the debt? Like $3 trillion?" And yesterday, there are huge news everywhere. Every single,
[00:11:50] Jolene: Ya
[00:11:51] nicole: single, uh, news source was $40 trillion, but today, as in Thursday the 20th, on all the news sources, they're still talking about it, [00:12:00] but the, the Fox that I was c- watching and listening to today didn't say a peep, like it was done.
[00:12:07] And that's concerning because that affects all of us, and I don't know if that's fair because I don't, I didn't watch Fox News all day today. But in the s- snippets that I did, there was not... They were, they were more interested in that, that Clancy murder and, like, lots of murders.
[00:12:26] Jolene: well, I thought it was interesting too that, um, when like, uh, um, both of the, the news stations talked about the Trump and the airplane leaving Turkey, when Air
[00:12:36] nicole: Yes. Yes
[00:12:38] Jolene: and how, a- again, the narrative from MS- uh, MS Now... Gosh, I keep screwing that
[00:12:44] nicole: I do too
[00:12:45] Jolene: narrative from MS Now was, um, wow, he got off and didn't tell anybody, and that he misled the public.
[00:12:54] That, that was the... I wrote this down, that he misled the public on [00:13:00] his escaping into the catering truck and getting on a different plane. Whereas News was going, you know, "Why aren't we more concerned that there's a hit out from the Iranian government on our president?" I mean, can... I mean, shouldn't that really be the story?
[00:13:18] Not that, he had to do this, and they took three other people with him. So again, interesting that, again, they put their spin on, on
[00:13:27] nicole: But it's, but it's, but Jolene, like even, like that's actually a really interesting example because why is it opposite? Because I don't know a liberal that is like, "Yeah, we should know what's going on because there's a hit against Trump." No, we shouldn't actually. He needs to... I might not care for him, but I don't want him to be killed.
[00:13:48] Like, he needs to be protected. That's what they're doing their jobs, and the fu- the fact that MS Now is like, "Why didn't the pe-" The people didn't know because they were keeping [00:14:00] him safe. Like, I, like why is that a liberal thing? That's just like a, like a normal thing. I had honestly, what was shocking to me was that I had an equal repulsion for both of them. every day it was like, "Oh my God, I've gotta do this again." and part of me was thrilled that this was my experience, but also thought, I wonder if Jolene felt like she hated MS Now more, I want to protect our listeners and viewers. I want people to understand that if you're going to continue to, to consume this, uh, these podcasts, these, these, these network news or, uh, stations, they are doing this to you,
[00:14:48] and you do have a choice to do something else.
[00:14:52] Jolene: if you're the person that, that has the news on all day long
[00:14:56] nicole: Угу
[00:14:58] Jolene: you're watching it at lunch [00:15:00] or you have it on your desk at, at work, what- whatever. what good does that do for you?
[00:15:05] Like, what... Are you so informed because then you could go and call somebody or text somebody or talk to somebody at the water cooler and, and say, "Hey, I just heard this"? does that make you more informed of newsy events that that helps your life? Because, because if it is, if, if it does trigger you and it angers you and it, and it, um, inflames an emotion inside of you that just makes you want to hate the other side, I'm sorry, but there's no amount of news that there's nothing that you can do with that information that is productive.
[00:15:44] I, I just, I mean, it, uh, it, it doesn't help and it, and it, it is concerning that people are consuming all of this it drives them to do things or say things or write things on, on social media platforms, [00:16:00] um, that is harmful
[00:16:01] nicole: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's funny that you... I'm glad you said that because it remi- I, I, during the week I would sort of, like, click on the news at 3:00. Like, "Okay, I should see what's on MS now," or, "I should see what's on Fox." Nothing. almost all of it was just dreck. It was just talking heads talking about nothing, but being really angry about it, because there isn't that much news,
[00:16:26] Jolene: Right. That,
[00:16:28] nicole: So, I, so, so I was like, "Hey," like, "there are these incredible news organizations," and I don't know, like, if you're really, truly interested in that and, and being informed, follow those other newsletters. But the... Just do something else with your time. It's just not good for you
[00:16:51] Jolene: Well, and I, and I think that that's where, I mean, to be able to fill 24 hours with news, I mean, you- then they've got [00:17:00] to not just give you the facts. I
[00:17:01] nicole: That's right
[00:17:02] Jolene: to Mo News. I, and I know that you don't like this, but I listen to Mo News in the morning on 1.25 speed so that I'm, after I get out of the shower and I'm getting ready, it's done by the time I am ready to go to work. like, you know, so it's 35 minutes
[00:17:17] nicole: Угу.
[00:17:18] Jolene: like good, here are the facts, here's what's going on. if you had to stretch that out for 24 hours, yeah, you're gonna have to come up with some, some, you know, editorial comments and, you know, other things to, to continue to get people to watch and listen.
[00:17:37] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:37] Jolene: And we're being manipulated.
[00:17:39] nicole: Yeah
[00:17:39] Jolene: I think that's just the best way to, to talk about it
[00:17:42] nicole: And, and we are also, humans are hardwired to, to go towards the negative. We... So therefore, that's why, like, all of the bad news is what helps us stay engaged. Like, [00:18:00] how much murder do we need to ingest every single day, all day?
[00:18:05] I saw one, nice... And I, I don't even know if it was, it was a nice story, but it was on, uh, Fox 13, the local, uh, Utah f- uh, channel, and I looked at it, I was like, "What?"
[00:18:19] And they, it was, I don't know if you saw it on, on the socials. I think it was in Portland, Oregon, these goats got on a public bus.
[00:18:28] Jolene: Oh, no. Okay.
[00:18:31] nicole: the bus opened,
[00:18:32] Jolene: that
[00:18:32] nicole: and the goats, and the goats went in the door, and the newscaster's like, "Huh, that was really nice." And I'm like, "Okay. Okay, Fox." Like, that, uh, uh, that's not news either, but, but whatever
[00:18:46] Jolene: because I, I think that, um, we watch now the CBS Evening News.
[00:18:51] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:51] Jolene: think when we first started, I was watching ABC
[00:18:53] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:53] Jolene: with David Muir. Now, Jeff and I, we, we record the 5:30 news because again, I wanna see [00:19:00] a half hour of, of news. Now, even that half hour news is really about 17 minutes of news, and the other 12, 13 minutes is commercials. but Tony Dokoupil is the, is the news anchor, and at the very end of CBS News, they do a, um, the good stuff. And so it's a, it's a fun story, it's a light story, it's a funny story, it's a loving story, and you're like, "Okay, that, that's great. Give me the 17 minutes of news, and then give me something good to end on, and I'm gonna go make dinner
[00:19:31] nicole: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. My dad talks about, hey Dad, uh, like that he watch, he watches the 5:30 ABC News with David Muir. Uh, and he has his happy hour. He's really into his happy hour with the, with the David Muir. But he, but he's go- he tells me a lot. He knows exactly the breakdown. He's like, "It's maybe five minutes of news and then seven minutes of commercials."
[00:19:52] And then like it's just... And, and the news is like disaster, disaster, disaster. Done.
[00:19:59] Jolene: Yeah. [00:20:00] but here's a question. If I wanted to learn, like let's talk about, um, the DSA, Democratic sos- uh, uh, why do I have a problem with this every time? Democratic Socialists
[00:20:12] nicole: Uh-huh, of America.
[00:20:14] Jolene: Yes
[00:20:14] nicole: How do you learn about it?
[00:20:16] Jolene: learn more about what they're saying, how do I find that out without having a, a bias? if I'm listening
[00:20:27] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:29] Jolene: a, a candidate, the Michigan person who just won their primary, and I want to know more about what they're, what they stand for, how do we get that information without having to watch the news and being told what it means?
[00:20:46] nicole: that's a very good question because we've also noticed in this year and a half of podcasting that my G- Google algorithm is different than your Google algorithm, [00:21:00] right? So that when... I was gonna say, "Well, Google," but it's really, it, it... And I don't, you know, we're asking you, listener and viewer, to, this might be a little bit of homework for you, but it's to look at everything almost like a detective, so that if you are curious about the DSA, you know, Google on Chrome, see what comes up.
[00:21:26] Google on, uh, Safari, see what comes up. Google, like, that there... And, and then when you, when a, when a website comes up and you see that website, Google that website. It's, it's really about, that's what Jolene and I have learned s- like, a huge takeaway from We've Got to Talk is, like, well, who is saying this?
[00:21:48] Jolene: Ya
[00:21:49] nicole: who, like... 'Cause these, these websites, some of it is just propaganda. A lot of it is propaganda. So you have to figure out not only if you're curious about a [00:22:00] s- of a, about a subject, whether it be, I don't know, the Proud Boys. Like, we're, we're, we're gonna have Larry Rosen of the Enemies Project on, and, uh, he has a Proud Boy on his, uh, platform, uh, with The Progressive.
[00:22:17] They have a conversation. And I had to Google, "What's a Proud Boy?" You know? And then, and you can't just go, "Oh, that's..." Like, don't let, it, don't let the little AI thing overview make your decision. That little thing at the beginning, mm-mm. You gotta dig deeper and see. And maybe, you know, looking at this, even at this Ad Fontes Media bias chart is a really helpful, uh, guide so that you can be like, "Okay, well, this source says, CBS News," and then go look at the chart and see where it is to see, "Can I trust what they're, what they're saying?"
[00:22:53] And it's really unfortunate that we're here, who am I to know? It seems like there's probably always been a manipulation, but [00:23:00] this is just so extreme at this point. And maybe because it's 24/7, you're just dealing with so much ick. What do you think, Jolene?
[00:23:08] Jolene: and I know that you don't like to use Chat or Claude, but,
[00:23:12] nicole: I don't
[00:23:12] Jolene: but I would say, you know, go to those. Go to, um, you know, go to some of the, the AI models and just say, uh, "Give me a, give me a bipartisan explanation of the Proud Boys," or of, uh, of the DSA. Or, I mean, you could, you could even go and say, you know, "Show me the platform that the DSA, um, is putting forward.
[00:23:37] You know, what do, what do they believe in?"
[00:23:39] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:40] Jolene: and so I, I, I do think that that is probably how we're going to get... You know, you, you've, again, do this, do the research yourself if it
[00:23:49] nicole: If it matters, and yeah.
[00:23:51] Jolene: doesn't matter,
[00:23:52] nicole: That's okay. That's okay. it's really okay to not wanna know. I think [00:24:00] one of the takeaways I wanna give you, listener and viewer, is that just to honestly be aware of what's happening to you, whether it's on Instagram, whether it's on Facebook.
[00:24:13] and you can have some advocacy. Uh, like, you can unfollow things. You can follow more puppy dogs and otters and whatever else you like, you know, to, that, that shifts that algorithm for you, if that's really not what you're interested in. But w- if you are interested in what's going on in, in the news today, and you really wanna have an, a, a nonpartisan experience, just know that there are things you can watch and read and listen to.
[00:24:49] And, and understand that if you're going to consume the other things, you're gonna be angry, you're gonna be agitated, and they will continue to feed the [00:25:00] beast
[00:25:00] Jolene: I think the other thing I would add, too, like, um, one of the things that Fox does, uh, um, lot of are, uh, illegal immigrants, uh, stories on illegal immigrants and the crimes associated with it. And, you know, this person was killed by an, by an undocumented person, and the shootings in Chicago, and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Instead of taking that information and going, "Wow, illegal immigration is horrible," we all get it. We all... But we've seen it. We, we know that it's, that it's, that it has led to horrible things. Now do something about it. Instead of just
[00:25:36] nicole: Угу.
[00:25:38] Jolene: consume that information and getting angrier and angrier and angrier and starting to point fingers and say, "See?
[00:25:44] It's because that illegal immigrant did that." And sa- that doesn't... Okay, that doesn't change what happened. Now do something about it. So then write to your congressperson and say, " we've got to figure out what to do here. We've gotta [00:26:00] come up with some solutions." And start thinking about that in terms of, of having a conversation with someone on the other side and say, "Okay, we both agree that this is, this is horrible, and the things that are happening with ICE agents are bad.
[00:26:15] No one should die." So, like, uh, let's start having a conversation about solutions instead of just making yourself angrier and
[00:26:26] nicole: And I know this is gonna sound like bleeding heart liberal stuff, but all that time that you spend, like, just consuming the news all day long, go out and take a walk, volunteer. Like, engage in a positive way in your community, and it's gonna make you feel so much better, and it's gonna make you believe in humanity.
[00:26:48] because our day-to-days, for the most part, doesn't matter what side of the aisle we're on, we're pretty lucky. We... And we have all these, like, [00:27:00] sweet interactions all day long
[00:27:02] Jolene: Ja,
[00:27:02] nicole: with people that don't, that i- that don't agree with us. But, like, our days, thank God, are not the news. It's not mur- it's not murder, murder, murder, murder, take this drug, murder, murder, murder, hurricane.
[00:27:18] Like, most of the days is, like, work, eat, smile, go to the gym maybe. It's hot. It's 101,
[00:27:26] Jolene: outside.
[00:27:27] nicole: 101 here, by the way. Okay, cool. Uh, but like, like, just take it back. Take your life back. Don't let this news... Like, and, and it is because of the, of the, my phone's on the floor, the, the phones. Like, that access to this 24-hour just this spin that...
[00:27:47] And, and they are winning. They are making millions off of us
[00:27:53] Jolene: I, I think the other takeaway for me too was, both of them talked about the midterms are coming up and, and [00:28:00] voter suppression versus, um, election security. So, you know, everybody is talking about, oh, if Trump doesn't get his way, he's gonna say that there's voter fraud, and the other side is saying, nope, if we let all these illegals vote, there's, y- they're not gonna, you know, they're, these polls are gonna be, or the, the, um, the outcome is going to be rigged.
[00:28:24] So, give yourself some credit. Like, we're smart enough
[00:28:27] nicole: ん、うーん。 Like
[00:28:35] Jolene: Great. Then, then again, talk to your congressperson and say, "You know, I do think there needs to be some, some rules here." Or if you feel like there is, um, a voter suppression in your, in your district, um, you need to, you know, contact your, the, the local, election board and say, you know, "What, what are you doing to make sure that, um, the people who can [00:29:00] vote are, are able to vote?" Or gosh, you know what? If you think that someone is not being able to, um, maybe doesn't have a ride to the polls, why don't you volunteer
[00:29:10] nicole: That's right
[00:29:11] Jolene: drive people to the polls that maybe don't have a car or, um, you know, do some- 'cause that's where you feel good.
[00:29:18] You don't just have to be angry about these things. Do something good.
[00:29:23] nicole: I love that Jolene. I really do. I think I just said it in a different episode, but I'm gonna shout out Isaac to your TED Talk, um, which is all about language and how w- how the power of language, which is what made me think of it when you were talking about voter suppression versus voter
[00:29:42] Jolene: integrity
[00:29:43] nicole: a- and, and that the another assignment for you listener and viewer is to when you're reading an Instagram post, look at the language that's used, and it- be curious about it.
[00:29:57] Like, "Oh, they're saying illegal alien," or, [00:30:00] "Oh, they're saying undocumented migrant. Oh." And that'll give you clues if it's slanting left or right and, and versus like neutral language. And the more that we can demand as a society news and Instagram feeds of neutrality that actually we get to, to figure out what we think about something, the better.
[00:30:25] 'Cause i- once we start disengaging from all of this dreck, they won't make money off of it anymore, and they're gonna have to change their tune if they wanna stay in business
[00:30:34] Jolene: Oh, this was good.
[00:30:36] nicole: girl, I am so excited to get rid of those podcasts on my, in my library. I don't ever wanna see them again. Seriously.
[00:30:46] Listen, but, but here's the thing. I do think, like whether it's what we did a year and a half ago where we swapped each other's news sources, or you just dive deep into the more extreme ones like Fox and MSNBC now, [00:31:00] like it's real- If you can look at it curiously, it's interesting. Just do it for a day. Just do it for a day.
[00:31:06] Don't do it for a week. It's just gonna make you feel icky. Do it for a day and just understand what, what's being... What's happening.
[00:31:13] Jolene: Yeah. What are you being
[00:31:15] nicole: what are you being fed?
[00:31:17] Jolene: Yeah
[00:31:17] nicole: Do you have a would you rather, my dear?
[00:31:19] Jolene: I do. Yes, I do.
[00:31:21] nicole: Okay.
[00:31:22] Jolene: You go ahead.
[00:31:22] nicole: Oh,
[00:31:23] Jolene: first
[00:31:23] nicole: right.
[00:31:28] Would you rather be forced to watch only Fox News and MS now in equal doses every day, several times a day for the rest of your life, or never read, listen, or watch the news again?
[00:31:51] Jolene: I mean, I, I, don't I have to go with never watch the news ever again?
[00:31:56] nicole: It would be really...
[00:31:57] Jolene: bliss here?
[00:31:58] nicole: don't know. It would be really [00:32:00] difficult to be the co-host of this podcast. But I really don't, I really don't want...
[00:32:07] Jolene: the birds that I heard.
[00:32:08] nicole: might be nice to be like, "Wow, that Jolene, she brings an interesting twist to the podcast."
[00:32:15] Jolene: there's a ship out in the ocean that can't get
[00:32:18] nicole: It's,
[00:32:18] Jolene: What? Tell me more
[00:32:21] nicole: um, what? Tell me more. I'm like, "I'm going to explain the news to you, Jolene." Uh, but I don't ever want that for you, so I would choose that too. I would never want that. Yeah, that would be a whole different podcast. Okay
[00:32:32] Jolene: Well, my question is on similar lines. Nicole,
[00:32:38] nicole: Yes
[00:32:38] Jolene: you rather never watch cable news ever again or only rely on a mime to bring you the news every night?
[00:32:54] nicole: Oh my God. Well, you sort of gave me an [00:33:00] out because I don't like cable news. So if you're saying cable news, then I could still read my Tangle news, my Straight Hour news, my Mo news. I'd just be very informed. The mime, the mime, the mime
[00:33:17] Jolene: gives you... Okay, so let me change it then. You can never watch news, uh, like, uh, or listen to news ever again or inclu- including Mo and Tangle and 1440 and all that, or you have to rely on a mime to bring you the news every night
[00:33:33] nicole: I think you gave me a horrible choice because I don't wanna, I don't wanna mime in my l- life every night. I don't want a mime in my life once, one, one night. No f- n-
[00:33:44] Jolene: stand on your porch
[00:33:45] nicole: no,
[00:33:46] Jolene: every
[00:33:47] nicole: no offense mimes, but that would be really creepy
[00:33:51] That's creepy. Does, it's, like, does it, does he, does he go away or does he just stand on my porch until it's the next time to give...
[00:33:58] Jolene: 30 minutes.
[00:33:59] nicole: Oh my [00:34:00] God, for 30
[00:34:00] Jolene: Then you
[00:34:01] nicole: minutes
[00:34:02] Jolene: For 30 minutes, he's gonna tell you all the news stories
[00:34:05] nicole: I can't believe I'm saying this. I'm gonna chase- choose cable news. I don't, I don't want a mime on my front porch ever
[00:34:13] Jolene: how fun that would be. My gosh,
[00:34:15] nicole: Every night?
[00:34:17] Jolene: hour with you. He would come over and just sit on your porch for his happy hour. He doesn't need David Muir.
[00:34:22] nicole: No, he could, he could just have a mime.
[00:34:24] Jolene: m- he'd have the mime.
[00:34:25] nicole: He could have the mime
[00:34:26] Jolene: fun. I think he'd, everybody in your neighborhood
[00:34:28] nicole: That's true. It would be true
[00:34:30] Jolene: it'd be fun
[00:34:32] nicole: That, that could be fun. Except my, and when I'm in New York in my apartment, would he just like be floating outside my door, my window on the 32nd floor?
[00:34:40] Jolene: no, you would, um, he would be out, he would perform out on the street in front of your building,
[00:34:46] nicole: With the h-hundreds of thousands of tourists.
[00:34:49] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:50] nicole: Interesting. Mm-hmm.
[00:34:51] Jolene: I mean, he probably could make some money
[00:34:53] nicole: Oh, I'm sure he could. I'm sure he could. Yeah, I can't, I can't do a mime. I'm [00:35:00] sorry. Sorry, mimes. I'm going to continue to torture myself, I guess. Okay
[00:35:05] Jolene: Thank you everybody. Thank you for sticking with us through this. Um, we hope that you've enjoyed it, and if you have any thoughts or comments, we would love to hear them, so
[00:35:15] nicole: please reach out to us on
[00:35:17] Jolene: of our available means: Instagram,
[00:35:23] nicole: YouTube, all the thing. Yes, and give us a thumbs up on YouTube. It kicks in the algorithm. It really helps us, and we really, really appreciate all of you. Thank you so much. Okay.
[00:35:35] Jolene: Bye-bye
