Will Social Security run out in 2032?

Written By Brianna Ansaldo

They’re saying Social Security could run out by 2032.

This isn’t meant as a scary headline you scroll past and forget. It’s a very real, stated timeline that’s now close enough to feel uncomfortably personal, especially if you have parents, grandparents, a spouse, or a future self who’s been assuming this system will still be there when it’s needed.

And before anyone says, “It won’t really run out,” let’s be clear about what people mean when they say that. It doesn’t mean the program vanishes overnight and everyone gets nothing. It means the money set aside to pay full benefits is projected to fall short, and if Congress does nothing, benefits get cut automatically. That’s the part that should make all of us sit up straighter. Because Social Security isn’t a political talking point, it’s a monthly lifeline for millions of people.

A lot of households rely on Social Security in a way that isn’t optional, and it’s not just retirees. It’s disability benefits. It’s survivor benefits. It’s the safety net that catches people after a death, an accident, a diagnosis, or a job loss that turns into something longer. When people talk about it like it’s only a retirement check, they miss how many lives it quietly holds up.

What’s interesting, and also maddening, is that this is one of the few issues where you can actually see the outline of bipartisan agreement. You’ll hear lawmakers from both parties admit it needs fixing, and you’ll see hearings where the frustration is real because everyone knows the math doesn’t care about your talking points. There have been proposals floating around from both sides, and the menu of options isn’t empty. The problem isn’t that nobody can think of ideas. The problem is that the incentives reward delay, finger-pointing, and pretending this is someone else’s mess.

It’s clear that once you start talking about solutions, you run straight into the part everyone hates. Trade-offs. Do you raise the cap on income that gets taxed for Social Security? Do you adjust payroll taxes? Do you change benefits for higher earners? Do you raise the retirement age? Do you tweak cost-of-living formulas? Every lever has consequences, and every consequence has a constituency that will scream. But that’s the job. This is what we elect people to do: to sit in a room, argue like adults, and land on something that keeps the system stable for the people who need it most.

What we keep coming back to is how unnecessary the silence is. People will spend hours debating a headline that doesn’t affect their life at all, then avoid the one program that might be the difference between dignity and poverty for someone they love. We don’t need everyone to become an expert. We just need more people to stop treating it like a boring topic for someone else. Ask your representatives what they support. Ask them what they’re willing to compromise on. Ask them why they’re comfortable waiting until the last minute, when the only options left are the most painful ones.

This is one of those issues where pressure matters because lawmakers respond to what feels urgent. If enough people make it clear that Social Security isn’t a political football, it’s a promise, the incentives start to shift. We’re not saying it’s easy. We’re saying it’s worth it. Because this isn’t just about numbers on a spreadsheet. It’s about whether we’re willing to protect the basic idea that after a lifetime of work, or in the middle of a crisis, you shouldn’t be left to fall through the cracks.

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  • [00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head but are too scared to say out loud.

    [00:00:19] Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome Jolene. This is a big old topic.

    [00:00:26] Jolene: Wait, why did that intro made you

    [00:00:27] nicole: I know, it made me giggle, right? It made me giggle this time. I got the giggles 'cause I was like, everyone says don't talk about it, and we're like, yeah, let's do

    [00:00:36] Jolene: Yeah.

    [00:00:36] nicole: Let's talk about it. That's what we're gonna do

    [00:00:39] Jolene: here's what I love about this conversation. It,

    [00:00:42] nicole: We haven't, we haven't told them.

    [00:00:44] Jolene: I know, I'm gonna tell you

    [00:00:45] nicole: Okay, great

    [00:00:46] Jolene: we are tackling Social Security.

    [00:00:49] nicole: Mm.

    [00:00:50] Jolene: Who wants to talk about this? So dumb, so boring, don't understand

    [00:00:53] nicole: So important

    [00:00:55] Jolene: But listen, we are going to break this down and talk about it in real [00:01:00] terms that are easy to understand and so that you will get it, because believe me, I had to do my research on this. I'm like, "Eh, I don't know that I completely understand it all." So we're gonna break this down and have a really good conversation because, y'all, we only have a few more

    [00:01:16] nicole: Yes, that's it.

    [00:01:17] Jolene: six,

    [00:01:17] nicole: Yeah. No, no, no, six. Six at the most. Six at the most. They're saying so- that, that it will go bust in 2032, and we're gonna talk about all of it because even though everyone agrees on this, this is a totally bipartisan issue,

    [00:01:33] Jolene: Yeah.

    [00:01:34] nicole: still so much fighting and so much finger-pointing. I want to pluck every single congressperson and throw them out the window and start over.

    [00:01:43] So

    [00:01:44] Jolene: have, have watched, um, w- the exciting, C-SPAN

    [00:01:50] and congressional hearings do our

    [00:01:53] nicole: Yes. It was riveting. It was the March 25th, uh, 2026 [00:02:00] Senate Budget Committee, uh, which examines Social Security solvency, y'all. And we will put this in the show notes, and we're gonna go through our takeaways. But here's the deal. So we have-- We were digging deep into this March 25th, uh, Senate Budget Committee, and, again, we will do the takeaways in a second.

    [00:02:19] But, uh, Senator Graham was, was the head of the committee, and he did the introduction, and there was some poignancy about it, right? And then he, um... We just have to tell you, today is Thursday, August 6th, and so yesterday I was gonna actually watch that thing one more time to get more ideas, and I thought, "You know what, Nicole?

    [00:02:40] I need to Google and see if anything has happened from March 25th to August 6th, or August 5th." And sure enough, yesterday, August 5th, uh, the Senate Finance Committee had a hearing about Social Security [00:03:00] solvency. So I delved into that

    [00:03:03] So let's do our takeaways. Jolene, you start your three takeaways about this Social Security solvency issue. Say that four times, five times, six times, three times even. 

    [00:03:17] Jolene: the way that I tried to, to look at this is that, um, you know, first of all, what is Social Security? It- because it- it's not just retirement, it's also disability, and it's also benefits for survivors of people, uh, who have Social Security. So it's like children if your parents die young. and so if you take a look at those three programs, that's what we're talking about here.

    [00:03:43] And the other thing that I didn't totally comprehend, like I'd heard it but didn't really grasp it, the, I think what we all need to understand, is that it's in a, it's in a trust fund. So it's not a government agency per se where it's part of the budget. It has its own trust [00:04:00] fund, that is kind of invests in some T bills, but that's really, there's some question.

    [00:04:07] nicole: it gets about 2.6 

    [00:04:09] Jolene: return on it every year, so, but, but there's some things around that. Here's the thing that I loved about this whole conversation as we, as I started to dive into this. Like you said, it's bipartisan, because everybody knows that we've gotta do something, and so now it's, it's really how do you do it?

    [00:04:27] Do you increase the revenue? Do you decrease the benefits? Or do you increase the age of benefits? I mean, there's, e- everybody kind of has a, has some different ideas. and so as the Republican... You know, obviously Republicans don't like taxes, so, um, you know, the... How much of this is going to be able to be fixed by not raising taxes? I think we have to raise taxes. A- and just as a Rep- even as a Republican, the current system, we've gotta do something about it. Reducing the [00:05:00] benefits for the wealthy. Absolutely. I think that if you're somebody who's making a million dollars a year, 

    [00:05:06] nicole: do 

    [00:05:07] Jolene: you need Social Security when you retire at 67 or, can get it as early as 62, do you need those benefits?

    [00:05:14] So I, I, I think that's a, that's something that we really should, um, talk about. and is there an investment that we could, we could put this fund in get a better return on the money that is sitting in there so that it's, it's basically not sitting there getting less than what the cost of living increase would be?

    [00:05:34] nicole: So those are your takeaways. Okay. Okay. number one, this is absolutely bipartisan. All the Democrats and all the Republicans in the room in March 25th completely agree that there is...

    [00:05:49] this is a huge problem. The fund will run out in six years, and they've all agreed that it needs to be fixed. watching these hearings is fascinating. It's totally [00:06:00] fascinating, and

    [00:06:00] Jolene: really

    [00:06:01] nicole: it really is. And one of my numbers is, hi, Brad Porteous, is looking, is when you watch any of these hearings, make this fun for yourself and go to bridgegrades.org and look up, is this congressperson a bridger or a divider?

    [00:06:20] Are they an A or an F? And the reason I say this is because I think in the, um, what's the word I want? Uh, the spirit of the World Cup. I think there should be yellow cards if there are... That there should be penalties if you're snarky, if you finger point, or if you have platitudes. Stop blaming the other side and get to work.

    [00:06:47] That's my number one. Number two, Lindsey Graham, and this again, this is the, uh, the Senate, uh, Budget Committee from March 25th, [00:07:00] 2026. Lindsey Graham introduced the hearing, and he shared a personal story of how his parents died suddenly when he was 21, and he had a 13-year-old sister, and that the Social Security benefits were a lifeline for him, and that it was imperative to make sure that the country doesn't go into poverty.

    [00:07:22] and then what I thought was, uh, really interesting is that he asked some really interesting, poignant questions to that particular, panel So he asked these great questions, but then here's the next rule that I want to implement into Congress. You need to stay in the room.

    [00:07:41] No double, no double,

    [00:07:43] Jolene: that

    [00:07:44] nicole: double-booking meetings, and I saw it again with the, with the hearing yesterday that you haven't had a chance to look at. No double-booking meetings. Each congressperson needs to state their ideas, ask the panel important questions, but [00:08:00] then they need to stay, and they need to listen to the other people's questions and ideas because, as we know, and we've got to talk, it's all about listening, and that this is how, the how, how, this is how we work together. This is what's so crazy to me, is that this would never be accepted in the real life of us, that you just double, like, "I'm saying what I'm saying. Bye." End of story. Like, that's not how life works. Okay, so my third is basically, I've already said it, uh, that when you watch these hearings, and it will just make it more fun 'cause they can be quite dry, is that go to bridgegrades.org, look up the senators or the congresspeople, see... You know, 'cause sometimes they surprise you. Sometimes they are really willing to bridge, and they have a big old F.

    [00:08:47] But a lot of times they might have an F and you're like, "You have an F because you're snarky all the effing time." If you're a jerk, who wants to deal with you? 

    [00:08:57] Jolene: it, well, it was funny because I noticed that, and, and [00:09:00] there was, um, God, what, I think it was Lujan from New Mexico, Senator Lujan, his question was... Number one, if, if, if you get a chance to watch these, they get five m- each of the, um, senators in this particular, um, it was just senators, they had five minutes to ask a question or make their statements or whatever. but they spend five minutes, really just given the, giving this diatribe that they've, you know, that they have written down and they're reading, and it has nothing to do. But here was the funny thing, is that what he was saying had already been

    [00:09:37] nicole: Oh yeah。Oh yeah

    [00:09:38] Jolene: they, they said, "Okay, this, this, and this," and then the panel answered, and then he started reading it.

    [00:09:43] And you're going, w- do you, like, "Were you not here?" And, and maybe he wasn't, because people are just

    [00:09:48] nicole: They're walking in and out

    [00:09:49] Jolene: committee. And so you're like, what, what is the purpose of

    [00:09:52] nicole: And

    [00:09:53] Jolene: it's all performative. We've

    [00:09:54] nicole: yes,

    [00:09:55] Jolene: before,

    [00:09:56] nicole: it's-

    [00:09:56] Jolene: in a lot of ways, they already knew the answers

    [00:09:59] nicole: Mm-hmm.[00:10:00] 

    [00:10:00] Jolene: that they were asking the panelists, like, it

    [00:10:03] nicole: They're not even real questions. Sometimes there are, but barely

    [00:10:07] Jolene: But it was like, uh, like the, the panelists were, one was from the, um, Congressional Budget Office, the CBO, all of their information is on their website. So, you know, she referred to that a couple times. "Well, if you, if you see the work that we've already done, or the report that we've already written, or da da da da da."

    [00:10:24] And you're like, okay, this, so this is all performative. Like, they've already had this information, they wanted to get in front of the cameras and...

    [00:10:32] nicole: Well, it's, what's so crazy, Jolene, is like between the March 25th hearing of the Budget Committee and yesterday's August 5th, uh, meeting of the Senate Finance Committee, that's five months. Listen, I felt so badly for Bill Cassidy yesterday because he was losing his mind. He was like pounding, 'cause he's, he's not, he's been primaried out.

    [00:10:54] He doesn't get to come back, right? And he's like pounding the desk going, " Why are we still talking? Like, [00:11:00] why are we fighting about this?" And so here's what I know, because every effing senator in both s- hearings have said it. There's $184,000 cap. Like 95% of us want to raise the cap so that more people put money into the fund, into the Social Security fund.

    [00:11:21] Right, like, so what that means is that right now, if you make $184,000 a year, year or less, as we know, when you look at your taxes that like e- each check, like some go to Social Security, some payroll, so little bit of your, of that paycheck goes into the Social Security fund. Okay? It stops at $184,000. 

    [00:11:42] Jolene: so 6.2% of your paycheck goes to

    [00:11:47] nicole: Correct

    [00:11:48] Jolene: Security fund, and the employer also,

    [00:11:51] nicole: Right

    [00:11:52] Jolene: then contributes 6.2%. So you're giving 12.4% of your, of your salary to Social [00:12:00] Security

    [00:12:00] nicole: And so it caps at 184,000. So if you make over that, you're still just giving that small percentage. And then if you have investment funds or hedge funds, no money, no money goes to that. So what ends up happening, and this is what I see, I've seen for hours now, a lot of Democrats are just... Listen, the whining doesn't work.

    [00:12:26] The pointing fingers doesn't work. The big beautiful bill, the, and I'm gonna say it to you all, it took six months even faster. I don't know, I'm not, know how else how to say it. The big beautiful bill, the, what, what happened in that bill, it's now five and a half years instead of six. Okay? And almost every single Democrat is pointing fingers saying, "You guys did it.

    [00:12:46] You guys did it." Okay, fine. It's done. Shut up. Like, w- like, we need to figure it,

    [00:12:53] Jolene: Well,

    [00:12:54] nicole: it out

    [00:12:55] Jolene: because what, uh, Trump did in the big beautiful bill was say, that we're [00:13:00] not gonna tax Social Security. So yes, that means that retirees on Social Security that are getting a Social Security check don't have to pay taxes on that income. So that actually puts more money in their pockets you know, on a regular basis.

    [00:13:14] But it also took that money out of the

    [00:13:16] nicole: Okay

    [00:13:17] Jolene: So the people that were saying, you know, "Oh, the big beautiful bill took off five and a half months from that," meaning that we're, it's going to dissolve the, the trust fund five months earlier now. Really, it- the, the counter argu- argument to that though is, but that's because we're getting, those retirees are getting less taken out of their paycheck because it's not ta- taxed

    [00:13:42] nicole: Well, one thing that I thought was interesting, Jolene, is that in that March 25th, like Ron Johnson was talking to, I think it was Merkley, and I, I think it was Merkley that was talking about the tax code and how corrupt it was. Was it Merkley?

    [00:13:59] Jolene: Yeah, [00:14:00] I think it was. And they...

    [00:14:01] nicole: And they, and they both were like, like Merkley was like, "The tax code is so corrupt," and I'm sitting there going, "Uh-oh, a Democrat saying this.

    [00:14:09] Uh-uh." And Ron Johnson's like, "I wanna work on that with you." And you're... And I'm going, "Oh my God, oh my God," like I'm totally geeking out on this stuff. Like, "Yes, let's work on it." Like, all of these things are sort of a quilt, like, of, of things that will help our economy, our, our communities. Like, all of this, it's not one thing to fix Social Security.

    [00:14:35] But if... But what ends up happening is I'm thinking, "Okay, five months have gone by. What have y'all done?" No one, no one's done anything. I mean-

    [00:14:44] Jolene: really you could look at it 40 years have gone by

    [00:14:46] nicole: Well, yes.

    [00:14:47] Jolene: done

    [00:14:48] nicole: They keep kicking, they keep k- k- they keep kicking the can down the road. And here's the deal, like, I do think that they should raise the cap.

    [00:14:56] I think $184,000 is too [00:15:00] low. I do think that there's a way to cooperate with each other, to collaborate, to figure out ways... 'Cause when the word fair comes up, I think people get their feathers ruffled. Like, there's a lot of language that the Republicans and the Democrats use that immediately shut down the conversation, and that what's, what we've learned is that look at those words and take them out of your vocabulary.

    [00:15:31] Find out what will make your, or help make your colleague listen in a different way. Fair doesn't work. billionaires doesn't work. R- you know, lib- Yeah, it, it just, it doesn't work. But we all want this, we all want this... Like, and also, just as a, um, I keep thinking about, because, one thing that Ron Johnson, the Republican from Ohio.

    [00:15:58] Jolene: Wisconsin.

    [00:15:59] nicole: Oh, is he [00:16:00] Wisconsin?

    [00:16:00] Jolene: Mm-hmm.

    [00:16:01] nicole: Sorry, sorry, Ron Johnson. the fact that I even know your name is, is amazing to me, is that he is, like, he is so, like, pissed off about the taxes and about the debt and how much debt we are in, and he's like, "We need to deal with the facts and we need to talk about the debt." And it made me think about just, like, how How I run my household, how I live through the world.

    [00:16:27] Like, okay, I'm liberal, whatever, whatever. I can't believe what our government is doing. I can't believe the amount of debt and that they're like, "Yeah, whatever. I'm gonna keep borrowing. I'm gonna keep borrowing." And I'm like, what? who- none of us individuals would be comfortable in our lives with a $3 trillion debt or whatever much debt we have.

    [00:16:53] And then we have this, this fund, if you will, this trust fund that we pay into, [00:17:00] and that's basically sitting in this savings account that doesn't... One thing that I learned from my financial advisor a million years ago is you need your money to make money. You need your money to do... to work. and, and I guess I'm still a little confused, and I'm very excited to possibly have a future guest on.

    [00:17:21] I don't wanna say too much yet to make sure he is willing to come on our podcast. but he is in this world to really understand this, 'cause none of this makes any sense to me. Here's the deal. If we let Social Security run out, I mean, f- time and time again, Jolene, I'm gett- guessing you got ver- very similar facts.

    [00:17:44] At least 50% of households rely on those checks, and, and the, they've already decreased to 19%, and they're gonna decrease another 22%. We are going to have a poverty problem that is, like, beyond, beyond, [00:18:00] beyond

    [00:18:00] Jolene: Right. And, and I think, so number one, I don't think that th- they, they will never allow it to run dry. I mean, the, obviously there's just no way that can ever happen. but the fact that they've got six years to figure it out, I mean, that's the next president,

    [00:18:14] nicole: it's not even six years. Like this last year, what have they done? They've had two committee c- meetings, and they talk and fight

    [00:18:21] Jolene: here's the great thing yesterday then was, as you re- referenced, Bill Cassidy, the Louisiana senator who has been primaried, and Dick Durbin, the Illinois senator who, from Illinois, who's a Democrat, Bill Cassidy is the Republican, Dick Durbin is a

    [00:18:38] nicole: Yeah, that was on Tuesday

    [00:18:40] Jolene: that they... Oh, yes, that they have come together to introduce a bill, and this I'm not q- I don't quite get what the bill was, but it was so- it was something to allow them to, um, and viewer, listener, you, I'm sure you can tell us what, where I'm missing this. But it was a bill that would [00:19:00] allow them to forego some Senate rules so that they could discuss this and come up with solutions. h- as, as Bill Cassidy was pounding on the Senate floor saying w- uh, "This is so stupid that we're even having a conversation about just allowing us to find a

    [00:19:18] nicole: Yeah, it's about, it's ab- it's about the process versus, and that,

    [00:19:20] Jolene: about.

    [00:19:23] nicole: and that kept coming up in yesterday's Senate hearing as well. It was like people are already fighting about what the solution is when no one's come up with a solution. Dick Durbin and Bill Cassidy have a s- have a proposal. Uh, Sheldon Whitehouse has a proposal.

    [00:19:41] There's a bunch of different proposals. Tim Kaine has a proposal, I thought with Cassidy. what was wild is in the March 25th one, they all actually, like, presented their proposals, and they were all really good ideas, and I'm thinking, "Why aren't you all coming together [00:20:00] and making this all together?"

    [00:20:02] 'Cause you've already said that if you raise the cap, 60% of the solvency will be, it will be fixed. So then you just have 40 more percent. Like, And so this was a takeaway that I had that I think is interesting, Jolene, that I'm just thinking about, is that one of the things I think that Cassidy said yesterday And this is human nature, and I don't know how we get around it, but there's so much ego involved in all of this, that not just the performance piece, but actually, uh, Senator Lankford from Oklahoma mentioned it in the hearing yesterday, where he had this idea to help with Social Security, and he reached out to across the aisle, This was not recently, it was several years ago. But the person said, "No, I didn't run on it." And I thought, "What's going on here? This [00:21:00] is not about you." And so, and then when, when they're talking about, like, fighting about whose plan is it gonna be when they haven't, we haven't even gotten there yet.

    [00:21:11] Like, there's a bunch of plans well, I think why Bill Cassidy's so pissed is he's like, "I'm trying to vote on what process we take to find the plan," right? And, and everyone's already arguing about, "This is the plan that should be, and the plan, and the plan, the plan," and there is no plan.

    [00:21:26] And that the Democrats are like, "It needs to be my plan," and the Republicans are like, "It needs to be my plan." And he's like, "Can we just figure out a way to figure out what... Like, w- we're open to any plan. Like, let's figure out the plan." what keeps coming up is that, even if they come up with a plan, there are other senators and congresspeople who are like, "Well, I wasn't asked."

    [00:21:47] Jolene: Oh, that's why we have amendments.

    [00:21:49] nicole: I'm like, why weren't you asked? Like, this isn't, again, this isn't about you, it's about us. we want solutions. [00:22:00] The United States of America, the people of this country want solutions, and it isn't about did you put your stamp on it? 

    [00:22:08] Jolene: So there's one thing that I, um, that I didn't understand that I kinda wanna talk about a little bit because then I, I, I'm starting to understand it. One of the solu- so right now, as you h- has, a- as you have already explained, the cap is $184,500 a year. So if you make under that amount, you pay, um, if you make a million dollars a year, you pay the exact same amount as that person at $184,500 because that is, that's the cap. I remember hearing years ago, and I mean, this probably was 30 years ago, that Warren Buffett said the way that the tax system is made up right now, that he pays the exact same as his

    [00:22:51] nicole: Yes. Yes, I remember that too

    [00:22:53] Jolene: a- and so you go, "Wait, how can that be?" Well, that's because you've got this cap

    [00:22:57] um, the Social Security part [00:23:00] of that.

    [00:23:00] But one of the things that they're proposing then is what sometimes we... Uh, and I've heard this referred to before, and I didn't know what it meant, but the donut hole,

    [00:23:09] nicole: Mm-hmm.

    [00:23:09] Jolene: meaning that then if you earned between $184,500 and $400,000, you would pay nothing, but anybody over $400,000 then, that would, that they would start paying tax on, uh, the Social Security tax again. so then you've got this gap then, um, between the 184,000 and the 400,000. And so, eventually over time, that increase, the 184,000 would continue to increase till it got up to the 400,000, and then you wouldn't have a gap anymore and everybody would be paying that. I get why, that people have a problem with benefits, because if you're a business owner or if you are somebody that works for a company and they have your salary capped at [00:24:00] $184,000, but then they give you benefits that equal a million dollars, and is that stock options?

    [00:24:06] Is that, you know, investment, equity investment into the, the company or, you know, whatever, because you're... That is a benefit you're receiving from your employer, yet you don't get taxed on it. there's these little loopholes that people are, can use and, and it's, again, it's usually the wealthy that have the ability to know what those rules are

    [00:24:29] nicole: Right

    [00:24:29] Jolene: the laws and all that. but when you're talking about this kind of money, it would solve a lot of issues. And, and I loved that Lindsey Graham said, you know, we need to have... he, That he's okay with means testing. I mean,

    [00:24:45] nicole: I

    [00:24:46] Jolene: if you're making enough money and you don't need the $2,500 that you're getting from Social Security, why don't you go ahead and just give that to the next guy who

    [00:24:55] nicole: Right.

    [00:24:55] Jolene: it?

    [00:24:55] nicole: just put it back into the t- into the tank and let it reinvest, let it make money. [00:25:00] I mean, there's so many things because it always does affect the poor the most. I think Sheldon Whitehouse's proposal is f- up to 400,000. Uh, he wants to s- have that, but he was like, "I'm willing to negotiate."

    [00:25:15] But I'm suggesting, Sheldon, that you s- be less snarky and you'll get more, you know, bees to honey. but thinking about, I think raising the cap would be helpful. I think when they talk about raising the age, There are a couple things. Uh, we're living longer, so in some...

    [00:25:33] Jolene: raising the age of benefits?

    [00:25:35] nicole: like starting the benefits like later, like 67 versus... And I think that's a little tricky, uh, but I think it could be worked on, like the means test, where first of all, people are living longer, and healthcare is expensive. So all of these things, we need the money to help take care of our elders, or the elders need money to be able to take care of themselves.

    [00:25:57] but when a lot of times when you rage the, raise the [00:26:00] age, the people that need Social Security the most, I know I'm gonna generalize here, but they tend to be in manual labor, uh, jobs, and their bodies are tired. Like, I feel like there's not a lot of nuance here, that you like have a means test. You like that there are things like, okay, this is the person that has worked their tail off for y- like in hard manual labor, and they, they can retire at s- right, at 65.

    [00:26:30] They're tired, versus the person... And then there was another guy in that, um, oh, it was, uh, Florida. his name was Rick Scott, and he was talking about how th- there should be a part of this, where people could choose to not take the benefit yet, to wait. Like, and let that money also continue to work in the fund.

    [00:26:54] I mean, and the thing that's, that's tricky, one of the, Tim Kaine, Bill Cassidy [00:27:00] proposal, they're really interested in this investment fund and having it work. Now, the thing that's tricky about it, and you can point fingers and do all the things, it would've been helpful if we started this 10, 20 years ago, because then it would be working.

    [00:27:13] It's not gonna, it, to me, it's like that's a great idea, but maybe you should put in the ideas of the Sheldon Whitehouse bill. Like, there's all these really good ideas, and this is the thing that really is shocking to me, I can't believe I'm saying this, but like this would benefit the current administration if you get this solved now

    [00:27:35] Jolene: they figured it out, right? Right?

    [00:27:38] nicole: you wanna, you, you wanna win the midterms, Republicans?

    [00:27:43] You wanna win the next presidency? Figure it out. And guess what, Democrats? You wanna win your seat again? You wanna actually get a possible president in 2028? You figure it out now. Because you [00:28:00] think that we're all red and blue and we're fighting, fighting, fighting. We are so tired of all of your crap.

    [00:28:05] This is so important. If we go into poverty, this is a big... We have so many other issues that we can't even foresee right now

    [00:28:15] Jolene: Right. they have to fix it, and they will fix it. Let's

    [00:28:18] nicole: I mean, I, I hope so, but it's like, but that's part of the issue, Jolene. I have to push back on that thought because we all... Like, that's human nature, we're like, "It can't happen. It can't happen. Well, let's do something different so that doesn't happen." all the politicians, they just need to, like, have their backs against the wall before they do anything.

    [00:28:40] And, and the more... I'm telling you, you guys, you guys, the more cross-partisan work you do and the more you highlight it, we'll all like you more. We'll l- we will all trust you more, because we don't trust you now

    [00:28:56] Jolene: Right. I mean, uh, the, the congressional approval rating is [00:29:00] so low

    [00:29:01] nicole: Argh!

    [00:29:01] Jolene: what do they have to lose? that's kind of what I

    [00:29:03] nicole: It's true

    [00:29:04] Jolene: Dick Durbin and, Bill Cassidy thing yesterday, was because they're both done in January because, uh, Dick Durbin is retiring, and we already said that Cassidy got primaried. Like, they're like, "We don't have anything to lose. Like, we're done in January, so we might as well... Like, this is our last hurrah.

    [00:29:21] nicole: I'm, yeah, which is such a bummer, but I, that's funny that you said it's great, and I think it's a bummer. But that,

    [00:29:27] Jolene: I mean

    [00:29:28] nicole: one thing that, that Cassidy said yesterday, he said, "You know, my friend Lindsey Graham said to me, 'Bill, you're a horrible politician, and you're a great senator.'" And I thought, "God, I just want great senators.

    [00:29:48] Like, enough with this

    [00:29:50] Jolene: Yep

    [00:29:51] nicole: Yes, Linda. Like, enough

    [00:29:53] Jolene: okay. H- here's a couple other things. it was interesting, and I think Bill Katz, uh, no, uh, Ron [00:30:00] Johnson pointed this out, the system right now is completely mismanaged because people are getting more than what they put in. At almost three times the rate of what, workers today are putting in, the benefit that they receive is three times greater.

    [00:30:17] So there's this, you know, this disparity between what they're putting in and what they're taking out. that could go the other way if you increase then If you, if you take out the cap and you increase the amount, or if you, if you allow people over $400,000 to be, um, taxed, or if their, their, um, benefits are taxed, or if their investments are

    [00:30:41] redistribution of wealth that, uh, Republicans don't like to talk about.

    [00:30:47] Because then those people are giving substantial, are paying substantially more into the system, but not receiving that benefit on the other end. So then you're like, okay, who... Y- you know, it's [00:31:00] a, it's a jacked up, mismanaged system, system right now that needs to be changed. The other problem that we have is have this, you know, grow- growing older population, but we have this shrinking, you know, younger population.

    [00:31:15] We aren't having as many kids as we did 50 years ago. People are living longer and having less children. So l- you know, this, this funnel has gotten smaller and smaller. and so again, something has to be done because it ain't working

    [00:31:30] nicole: I thought Ron Johnson had some interesting ideas about, how c- corrupt the tax code is and things that could work. What I, I would say to him, just like to Sheldon Whitehouse to stop being so snarky, I would say to him, "Stop calling it a Ponzi scheme," because people shut down there too.

    [00:31:51] ' Cause that just, just that language is just like, that's not helpful. you can think that, sure, Ron Johnson. But like, there are other language that will [00:32:00] not shut down the conversation, and it was just made me think when you were t- we were talking about, like taxing the investment, um, money that that's hasn't been done.

    [00:32:09] I'm thinking, 'cause I know you love like looking at how Congress has made so much money in trading. I'm like, "Maybe they should get a special tax to go into the Social Security." Like l-

    [00:32:22] Jolene: have made

    [00:32:22] nicole: mm, hmm, maybe you should add to the fund. Let's, you know, put your money where your mouth is, basically. You-

    [00:32:29] Jolene: let me do this. I, okay, I, I have a list of, of solutions here, and I want you to tell

    [00:32:35] nicole: Oh, okay.

    [00:32:37] Jolene: what you think, if you agree or disagree.

    [00:32:39] nicole: love it. Let's do it

    [00:32:40] Jolene: slowing the benefits for higher income retirees. So those people who, are retiring with, um, a, a really nice nest egg, um, slowing those benefits.

    [00:32:53] They don't get as much as somebody who was a blue-collar worker who didn't have as much 

    [00:32:57] nicole: But w- I guess what does that mean? [00:33:00] Like s- uh w-

    [00:33:00] Jolene: I don't know. I think that's, that's gonna be the, that's where

    [00:33:03] nicole: Because I could, I could agree, I, I could agree with you. I could agree with you. I do know that, um, just from my own experience with my father, and there's a lot of people, and he had a, he had a really great career for a while, and then he didn't. And there...

    [00:33:22] a lot of people don't have any savings.

    [00:33:24] you know, my, my stepmom got sick. My dad, uh... No, my stepmom died. My dad then got sick and sold his house, and that's all he had. That's it. There was nothing else. And thankfully, we were able to figure out to create, you know, like the Social Security fund. We, we took that money and are making, are making that money work in order for him, plus his Social Security.

    [00:33:56] That is his lifeline. That's what helps him [00:34:00] be able to pay his rent in his senior living community. but my dad didn't have a blue-collar job.

    [00:34:06] But there's a lot of people that don't, that don't have any savings. I think over, I think they've said something like over, I'm gonna maybe misquote this, so be gentle with us, please, but I think it's over 50% of seniors have no savings, and that they rely on Social Security. Now, you can say, you could say, "Well, they should've."

    [00:34:30] Well, they don't. Like we-

    [00:34:32] Jolene: you're right. 20% retire, uh, rely entirely on the only check that they have is from Social Security. Half of seniors use it for half of their income.

    [00:34:44] nicole: So, so in answer to your question, I think I like the idea. Like, and, and that's more like I'm assuming that question you asked me was more like a means test.

    [00:34:55] but this is like the bleeding heart liberal over here. I understand that [00:35:00] people work hard, and they make a lot of money, and they wanna keep it. I'm not against that. here's the, here's the other issue. Just, just like big scope The rich people keep all the money, and then we, we already have an enormous homeless problem.

    [00:35:19] Imagine all of a sudden in 2032, and I'm just gonna go to the big extreme case, where peop- there's no more money So what happens to all these old people? They're on the street? Do we re- that's, that's the America we want? I don't.

    [00:35:39] Jolene: Yeah.

    [00:35:40] nicole: And, and, and, and to me, it's not like we're not taking your money away. We're just like, "Hey, do you really n- you probably don't need it.

    [00:35:49] Would you like to..." And maybe

    [00:35:51] Jolene: so funny. I think that's such a liberal way of looking

    [00:35:53] nicole: Is it? And, but here's the other thing. I'm thinking, gosh, I don't... I mean, I know nothing about nothing, obviously, 'cause I'm [00:36:00] just here blabbing. But it's like, maybe you could get a tax break if you're a rich person to give the money back into the fund

    [00:36:12] Jolene: we do that now in certain other areas of government. Like, if you're a business owner and you invest in an area that is, know, inner city, downtrodden, you know,

    [00:36:22] nicole: Right

    [00:36:22] Jolene: breaks. So you're right, there is, there are, there are opportunities to give back and, and, and get something for giving something.

    [00:36:31] nicole: what, go, go down, go down your list though. I l- I'm interested

    [00:36:34] Jolene: because the other thing that you, that you pointed to, though, was how dependent people are on Social

    [00:36:41] nicole: Security And I think that's the other

    [00:36:43] Jolene: thing though is 

    [00:36:44] I don't think Social Security was ever

    [00:36:46] nicole: meant to be the soul 

    [00:36:48] Jolene: income

    [00:36:49] nicole: we relied 

    [00:36:49] Jolene: on as you, you know, you have to save.

    [00:36:52] You gotta have a 401K obviously not everybody has that opportunity. 

    [00:36:57] nicole: And, and I think that that's also become [00:37:00] conflated. Like, in the liberal world and the conservative world, it's sort of like, okay, you can argue it. It's like we can argue about the big beautiful bill. We can argue about, whose fault this is. But we've now created a society where over half of the seniors depend on this thing.

    [00:37:18] So we can't just go, "Well, too bad." I mean, I guess we could, we have to sort of solve this and then maybe look back and go, "Okay, maybe we need to start teaching our children about money.

    [00:37:28] Jolene: Yeah Maybe that needs to be in public schools." Like, but you can't just go... So we're here, and we're, and we're, how much debt do we have as this country?

    [00:37:39] nicole: Like, we're so, we're not very fiscally responsible over here

    [00:37:43] Jolene: Yeah. Are we at 38,

    [00:37:45] nicole: And, and I don't think... I think there is a misconception. I don't think liberals like the debt either. I really don't. I don't... Who, who, who...

    [00:37:52] Jolene: should.

    [00:37:53] But you know what? You know, Trump gave $1,000 to every baby born so that they could start their own little account. That's kind of a good [00:38:00] idea. Do you like that?

    [00:38:01] nicole: yes

    [00:38:01] Jolene: Yeah.

    [00:38:02] nicole: Yeah

    [00:38:03] Jolene: what, that's a great thing for the government to do. When you're born, you get $1,000 and you put it in this fund and don't touch it until you're, whatever,

    [00:38:11] nicole: Listen,

    [00:38:12] Jolene: see it

    [00:38:13] nicole: I'm down with that. I'll give him that.

    [00:38:15] Jolene: Okay.

    [00:38:16] nicole: Okay.

    [00:38:16] Jolene: Well, okay.

    [00:38:17] nicole: I'll give him that. You're welcome

    [00:38:19] Jolene: investment account. You'd like to see...

    [00:38:21] nicole: Oh!

    [00:38:22] Jolene: like to see this.

    [00:38:24] nicole: Absolutely

    [00:38:27] Jolene: I think one of the proposals that, uh, Bill Cassidy, I think maybe had, was taking $1.5 trillion, borrowing $1.5 trillion from the government and, um, putting that into an investment account, that that would then start to generate revenue to, to help the, the trust fund. I think we all know the problem with that is, do you really wanna tie it to the stock market? I mean, because then it's, you're in a

    [00:38:54] nicole: Yeah, that, that makes me uncomfortable

    [00:38:56] Jolene: and you're asking the government to be in charge of it.

    [00:38:58] nicole: Mm-hmm.

    [00:38:59] Jolene: [00:39:00] wants the government to be in charge of our investment? That makes me nervous

    [00:39:04] nicole: too. I'm with you 1,000% on that. I love the idea of your money making money, I don't love the idea of borrowing money to make that happen.

    [00:39:13] but I do think, like I said before, that there are a lot of great ideas on both sides of the aisle. Like, I just really don't understand.

    [00:39:22] And some of them are already bipartisan. Why aren't you all getting into the room together and f- and hashing this out and putting one, one big beautiful Social Security bill? come on.

    [00:39:33] Jolene: Be the hero.

    [00:39:34] nicole: the hero. 

    [00:39:36] Jolene: I do think that the CBO, the person on the panel who represented the CBO said, " If you will go to the CBO website, we have over 114, um, different ideas that we've put on there and associated that, you know, put the numbers to it.

    [00:39:50] Like, we- we've done the work, thank you.

    [00:39:53] include wages above $400,000 to be taxed for

    [00:39:56] nicole: Y-

    [00:39:57] Jolene: Security how about taxing all [00:40:00] wages? So don't have the donut hole,

    [00:40:01] nicole: Yes. Yes. I don't like the, I don't like the donut hole. don't we wanna just solve this? Come on, y'all

    [00:40:09] I think invest, I, I mean, I don't know how you feel about it. I like the idea of taxing investment income. And,

    [00:40:17] Jolene: my next

    [00:40:17] nicole: and j- and it can be tiny, teeny tiny, y'all. I don't know, what do you think about that?

    [00:40:24] Jolene: one I kind of have a problem with, only because has it already been, like, that... Has that money already been taxed? I mean, is there double taxation there? Because you've, that's money that you earned, and that,

    [00:40:37] nicole: I guess that's fair

    [00:40:38] Jolene: been taxed. you're going to invest it. Why should you be... Are you being taxed

    [00:40:45] nicole: I see what you're saying. All right

    [00:40:47] Jolene: will have a problem with that. Okay. But, uh, business income then is the, is the other part of that. As a business owner, you don't, you may not get a salary, but you get, distributions. And so [00:41:00] then do you get taxed then on the distributions that you take?

    [00:41:02] Or is that your, after your earned income on your tax returns? There's so many little things in there that I, that are beyond what I know.

    [00:41:13] nicole: Yes That's why we... Yeah

    [00:41:17] Jolene: I kind of have a, kind of have an issue with some of that.

    [00:41:19] nicole: Okay

    [00:41:21] I have no comment. I would like to speak to this future guest about this to understand the ins and outs, 'cause math is not my forte. They keeps, they kept saying in both hearings that this is actually not a complicated issue, but we are making it a complicated issue.

    [00:41:38] And I say we're making a complicated issue of everything

    [00:41:42] Jolene: Yeah. Okay. Would you raise the tax rate? So instead of 6.2% and 12.4, keep it as is? Okay, my liberal friend. I love that answer

    [00:41:55] nicole: No. I think if we... Here's, here's, here, here's, here... Well, here's what I propose. I propose I'm really digging the Senator Merkley, [00:42:00] Ron Johnson, the tax code's corrupt, let's fix it. ' because when you're just raising that, then you're also penalizing the working class person more.

    [00:42:11] And I'm like, this is a bigger problem that if we actually really dealt with the corruption that's happening, can you imagine? Ugh, let's do that.

    [00:42:21] Jolene: okay. Would you raise the retirement age?

    [00:42:26] nicole: Gosh, I think that's such a hard one because again, like what we were talking about before, that I've really... Like, does it have to be this hard? Couldn't you say like, "Hey, I worked in manual labor this, and so y- I get to retire"? I don't see why that would be a problem

    [00:42:41] Jolene: Yeah, because then

    [00:42:43] nicole: 'Cause we were like, "It's not fair.

    [00:42:45] Jolene: Right.

    [00:42:45] nicole: bah, bah."

    [00:42:46] I'm like, "Shut up

    [00:42:47] Jolene: in construction." "No, you sat at a desk in a construction company." I mean, then how do you, how do you go, "No, you did this, that, this..." I mean, and who's the person that worked 10 different jobs in their lifetime? How do you determine? Did you stand on

    [00:42:59] nicole: [00:43:00] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I would say no to raising the minimum age. I think this is a cap thing. I think $184,000 is, for some people it's like a treasure, and for a lot of people it's pittance.

    [00:43:22] Jolene: Yeah.

    [00:43:23] nicole: So...

    [00:43:23] Jolene: those who think

    [00:43:24] nicole: And, and it hasn't changed since 1983, everybody. Come on

    [00:43:30] Jolene: Uh, okay, would you reduce benefits

    [00:43:32] nicole: No.

    [00:43:33] Jolene: to solve

    [00:43:34] nicole: No. I think that's just gonna cause more problems. I think it's a lazy way to solve it. I think we could do better. I think, I think there's a, like, we should work on the big macro problems. Yeah

    [00:43:45] Jolene: Um, my liberal friend, I agree with you on almost all of this.

    [00:43:50] nicole: That's the thing. How about that? I mean, that's the thing is, like, I'm looking at this as a business person and as a, just a [00:44:00] human in the world. Like, okay, do I have enough money to buy the oranges today? No, I don't, or yes, I do, or what... You know, money is such a... We talk about it in our intro. It's such an emotional topic, and everybody's relationship to money is so different.

    [00:44:21] And so it isn't a Republican thing or a Democrat thing. You have no idea what... Like, I might be uncomfortable with $500 in the bank, and someone might be like, "That's the most amazing amount of money I've ever seen." It- and it's all about comfort. What I'm not comfortable with is the fact that we just keep printing money and spending money a- and we don't have it. I definitely think that my, um, my opinion's changed the older I've gotten. I don't know, I don't know if I would've, what I would've thought as a 20-ish-year-old. But having a, a dad that, [00:45:00] um, hi, Dad, that is so... Gosh, like, he's such an Energizer bunny, such a will to live, but he's a fragile dude, you know?

    [00:45:12] And he worked really hard and, and now he's just got this little bit of money and he did what we were told. Like, it's, it was sort of part of the,

    [00:45:23] Jolene: to

    [00:45:23] nicole: part of the thing, worked really hard, gave, paid his taxes and, and I'm thinking to myself, "Well, Jolene, you and I are not seeing this."

    [00:45:33] Like, I don't know how we're gonna see anything. Like, if, if they're saying... I mean s- five and a half, six years is gone like that. I also think part of the issue, and I don't know 'cause I've never been in Congress, but I think they're trying to do too much all at once. meaning like they double book shit. They just like pontificate and then leave.

    [00:45:56] And I'm like, how about you [00:46:00] stay in the room and you've, you can't leave until you figure it out

    [00:46:04] Jolene: I know, and I wish I had a better understanding of what their day really does look like. And God, maybe we do need to have somebody on here that, that could help us with that because when they're on the either the House or the Senate floor and they're, and they're speaking on a bill, there's nobody

    [00:46:21] nicole: There's nobody there. Like, w-

    [00:46:22] Jolene: there

    [00:46:22] nicole: th- that was the thing you sent me on Tuesday, which we'll put in the s- show notes as well, the, the Cassidy, um, Dick Durbin thing, and they're like, "No one's here." So they're, they're talking, they have these ideas, and no one's listening.

    [00:46:37] Jolene: And no one's there. Okay, and so then they're, then they've got conflicting if the, the budget, the budget committee is meeting at the same time as the finance committee, and you're like, "I kinda feel like maybe those should be separated. Like, maybe, maybe have that one an hour after that one."

    [00:46:53] I mean, like, why, why is that ha-

    [00:46:54] nicole: So Jolene, you run a company. Would you actually, like, schedule a [00:47:00] meeting and then have another meeting and be like, "Sorry team, I gotta go to this meeting"?

    [00:47:04] Jolene: gotta run. No,

    [00:47:05] nicole: doesn't, it doesn't work. 

    [00:47:06] Jolene: Anyway, I love this conversation because I think that number one, something has to be done. I'm glad that we're bringing this to everyone's attention right now, or,

    [00:47:15] nicole: Yes

    [00:47:16] Jolene: that we got to dig into it to learn more about it because it's go time. 

    [00:47:22] nicole: And what can you do? Call your congressperson. It doesn't matter what side. And don't say, "Don't take my benefits away."

    [00:47:32] Not helpful. Say, challenge them and say, "We need you to come up with a plan together. We know we're not gonna get everything. It's just, it's not how it works. There is going to be things that you're not gonna get

    [00:47:50] it's such a crucial thing that if we don't solve it, and this is not a win or lose. Like, call your congressperson and say, "We need you [00:48:00] to fix this

    [00:48:02] Jolene: Ja. 

    [00:48:02] nicole: this is the beginning of a very long conversation, we know this is not gonna be solved tomorrow. So we are gonna plan on having different guests on to unravel this so that Republican, Democrat, Independent, that, that we can all understand it so that we know what to ask our congresspeople, how to push them forward.

    [00:48:23] Because we need, right, we need to solve this together. This is the one thing, and they've said it in all the hearings that I've listened to, that this is totally bipartisan. Everyone wants this fixed. So put your fingers down. Stop pointing. Stop blaming. We know. We got it. We know. Get in the rooms together.

    [00:48:42] And so we're gonna help you and help us understand this so that we can solve this. How's that, Jolene?

    [00:48:51] Jolene: Oh, I love

    [00:48:52] nicole: All right. You wanna hit me with a would you rather?

    [00:48:55] Jolene: Yes [00:49:00] would you rather eat an egg salad sandwich that has expired Or eat a fried rat meat sandwich?

    [00:49:12] nicole: my God

    [00:49:15] Jolene: Ew.

    [00:49:16] nicole: That's disgusting. Can you imagine if like I would eat a rat sandwich? No.

    [00:49:21] Jolene: I mean, maybe. I mean, it's fried. Like, take it, like, uh,

    [00:49:26] nicole: That's so Southern of you. That is so Southern of you. It's fried.

    [00:49:30] Jolene: fry. It's fried. You can't

    [00:49:32] nicole: and I bet people do f- sometimes eat rat.

    [00:49:35] Jolene: Okay,

    [00:49:36] nicole: should.

    [00:49:37] Jolene: eat, or

    [00:49:37] nicole: I, I... Listen, I,

    [00:49:39] Jolene: sandwich

    [00:49:40] nicole: love egg salad. if you ever go to Japan, everyone, the best thing is going to the 7-Eleven and having their egg salad. That is the biggest tip I can give you. I...

    [00:49:50] No, no, no, it's world famous. The 7-Elevens in Japan are unbelievable. They're so clean. They're so delicious

    [00:49:58] Jolene: 7-Eleven, I'm afraid [00:50:00] you've already

    [00:50:01] nicole: No, no, it i-- no, Jolene, I crave them. Listener and viewer, if you've been, you know, you know. I'm gonna put that in the show notes, the egg salad sandwich is the best. I'd have to go with the spoiled egg salad, which I would probably get sick, but I don't wanna eat a rat.

    [00:50:18] I don't care if it's fried. I don't care. Okay.

    [00:50:21] Jolene: Okay.

    [00:50:23] nicole: You ready?

    [00:50:24] Jolene: Yes

    [00:50:24] nicole: Would you rather have a five-hour dinner with a headstrong politician from an opposing party, or attend a five-hour concert for a music group you detest?

    [00:50:43] Jolene: Oh, I absolutely, I would do the dinner because number one, a five-hour dinner, I'm assuming that's gonna be like a really nice dinner. Like, there's lots of courses. So I'm going with the food, as you knew I

    [00:50:56] nicole: That's right

    [00:50:57] Jolene: And at least I [00:51:00] would have some good conversation. If I'm at a five-hour concert, could, I can think...

    [00:51:05] I'm not even a concert fan, and so I just don't like concerts. Unless I'm in the front three rows, I'm not, I'm not a fan of

    [00:51:14] nicole: Oh, really? You know what? Y- actually, you know what I'm going to see on Friday? Tomorrow?

    [00:51:19] Jolene: What? Who?

    [00:51:20] nicole: Zach Bryan

    [00:51:23] Jolene: I, sorry. You're going to a country Shut up.

    [00:51:27] nicole: I've never been. I've never been.

    [00:51:30] Jolene: concert?

    [00:51:34] nicole: I know. I know

    [00:51:36] Jolene: gonna be... I've heard that's a really good concert

    [00:51:38] nicole: Well, I'm very excited about it. I'll, I'll report it back. I love concerts, but being a little girl, I'm not psyched about, like, being in the mosh pit anymore. I'm too, I'm too old.

    [00:51:50] Jolene: Well, that's the deal. Yeah. I don't wanna be in a mosh pit, I just wanna be in the first three rows

    [00:51:54] nicole: yeah

    [00:51:54] Jolene: have a good... B- like, if you're at a concert and you're just watching it on the screen the

    [00:51:57] nicole: Yeah

    [00:51:58] Jolene: I'm like, "Why am I paying money to [00:52:00] sit here and watch

    [00:52:00] nicole: No, I'm, I'm with you, girl. I'm totally with you. But I'm, I don't even honestly know Zach Bryan's music that well, but I'm excited. I'm gonna wear my cowboy boots, maybe my cowboy hat even. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go rock it with the Utahns and see some Zach Bryan. I know

    [00:52:17] Jolene: I'm gonna see, um, Dierks Bentley on Sunday

    [00:52:20] nicole: I don't know who that is. Is that a country person?

    [00:52:23] Jolene: He is a country

    [00:52:24] nicole: Okay

    [00:52:24] Jolene: He's, he's a little cutie-patootie. And,

    [00:52:27] nicole: him in the show notes too, both of them

    [00:52:29] Jolene: okay, good, because I'm going to a NASCAR race on Sunday

    [00:52:36] nicole: Listen

    [00:52:36] Jolene: conservative is that? I'm going to a NASCAR race and, and the person performing before it starts is Dierks Bentley.

    [00:52:44] Country

    [00:52:45] nicole: Wow. So for you conservatives that know what she's talking about, God bless you. I have no idea what she's talking about. All right. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for, um, for listening and, [00:53:00] uh, trying to understand this conversation, this topic. It's a big one. It can be not very sexy, but we're trying to make it as interesting and palatable so that we can all try to solve this

    [00:53:13] Jolene: Yep. And we'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

    [00:53:15] nicole: Ja.

    [00:53:15] Jolene: please let us know what your thoughts are. Send us an email,

    [00:53:19] nicole: Yeah. If you have any ideas,

    [00:53:22] Jolene: or DMs. Yeah,

    [00:53:23] nicole: yeah,

    [00:53:23] Jolene: to

    [00:53:23] nicole: we'd love to hear them. Thumbs up. We really appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Joe. Bye. 

    [00:53:30] 

Brianna Ansaldo
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