If We Were President: 3 Laws That We Think Would Fix America

Written By Brianna Ansaldo

We are back in the Ozarks for our second annual in-person recording at Jolene’s house, and we decided to ask each other a handful of questions we have thought about asking, but never have. 

My first one for Jolene was simple: why do you hide how funny you are on the podcast? Privately, she is one of the funniest people I know and sometimes a little crass. On the show, she is careful. She said she does not want to offend anyone, and she meant it. She sees it as honorable to ensure that she is thinking deeply about how her audience will feel listening or watching the podcast. I get that, but I also think it can become exhausting, because the more you try to be inoffensive, the more you sand down the parts of yourself that make you even more relatable. 

That led us into what we are still figuring out about this show. What is our voice? What do we want it to do? We both keep coming back to the same thing: we want people to feel less manipulated, less pushed into extremes, and more capable of thinking for themselves. We want you to feel like you can talk to your friends again, even if you disagree, without it turning into a huge argument.

Jolene asked me a question that I had to take a moment to respond to. What is one belief Democrats hold that I find hard to defend? My answer was not an easy one sentence answer or one particular belief. It was more of a frustration that the Democratic party can get stuck in the weeds while massive problems keep getting worse. I care about people having rights and safety, but I also want us to deal with the big, unsexy issues that affect everyone, like debt, homelessness, and the cost of living. It is hard to defend a platform that feels scattered and overly coached, especially when so many of us can smell the consultant language from a mile away.

Then we flipped it. Jolene asked what Republicans believe that I actually agree with, and I said I want to see the national debt taken seriously. I do not think being liberal means being comfortable with endless spending. I think a lot of people across the spectrum are looking at the numbers and thinking, what are we doing?

One of the best parts of doing this podcast is that it keeps forcing us to see the person underneath the label. Jolene talked about learning more about the working poor, people who work multiple jobs and still cannot afford life, but also do not qualify for help. I admitted I have always assumed government programs were mostly doing good, and she admitted she has always worried about waste and people taking advantage. Neither of us changed sides at that moment, but we understood each other more, and that is the point.

We also circled back to something we learned from Larry Rosen who is coming up on our podcast next week. You can have a healthy relationship with someone you do not agree with, and you do not have to constantly tell them they are wrong. If you respect someone, you can listen long enough to understand why they think the way they do. Society wants us to fight, and social media rewards the fight, but We’ve Got To Talk is trying to be the antidote, even when it would be easier to be more combative and we’d probably build an audience faster. But this is a slow burn. We’re trying to show our audience another way through.

And because we cannot help ourselves, we ended up laughing about karaoke and random personal quirks, and it reminded me why this podcast works at all. The big topics matter, but the friendship is what makes the conversation possible. When you remember the other person is a whole human (for those who have listened or watched this episode, you’ll know to take a drink here) with a whole life, it gets harder to turn them into an enemy.

That is what we are trying to model, imperfectly, every time we hit record. The quieter, more exhausted middle (not moderate) just want to make this thing called our country work, and we are going to have to learn to play together again.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify:  https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

How to find Nicole
How to find Jolene

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  • [00:00:00] Nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head but are too scared to say out loud.

    [00:00:19] Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome to the Ozarks part two. 

    [00:00:25] Jolene: This is the second annual- Mm-hmm ... in-person interview- In-person ... that we've done for We've Got to Talk. 

    [00:00:29] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Thank you, Jolene, for- 

    [00:00:31] Jolene: Welcome to beautiful Lampe, Missouri. 

    [00:00:33] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Thank you for hosting us again. 

    [00:00:35] Jolene: And on this episode of We've Got to Talk... 

    [00:00:38] Nicole: We have been directed by our lovely and amazing and talented Brianna, our producer and editor. She was like, "Y'all," in her Australian accent. She didn't say y'all. Y'all. She didn't say y'all.

    [00:00:52] She said, "Hey, how about you ask five questions, give or take- 

    [00:00:58] Jolene: Okay ... 

    [00:00:58] Nicole: uh, of [00:01:00] something you have always wanted to ask your friend but have never asked it?" 

    [00:01:05] Jolene: Okay. So the, I want you to go first then. 

    [00:01:07] Nicole: So one thing you guys, y- that you need to know about my friend Jolene, she is probably the funniest person I know. Mm. And so my first question to you is- Why don't you share that amazing sense of humor on our podcast?

    [00:01:25] Jolene: I think you have to use it in the right context. 

    [00:01:29] Mm-hmm. 

    [00:01:30] Mm-hmm. Um, it's the same reason I don't cuss on the podcast. Mm-hmm. You know? I think that there is... I don't wanna offend anyone. you know, if there's a evangelical or- Sure

    [00:01:43] a Mormon friend or something, you know, who watches this and, and are turned off by my potty mouth or by y- you know, dropping an F-bomb- 

    [00:01:54] Nicole: Right ... 

    [00:01:55] Jolene: I don't want to offend anybody. And so, so with the, with the humor thing, [00:02:00] I also, I'm not sure this is the proper context. I, I mean, sometimes we're funny. I mean- Mm-hmm, for sure

    [00:02:08] it naturally. For 

    [00:02:08] Nicole: sure. 

    [00:02:09] Jolene: But I think we handle some really deep conversations- 

    [00:02:12] Nicole: Yeah ... 

    [00:02:13] Jolene: that don't always, like, call for humor. 

    [00:02:17] Nicole: I had a feeling that that's what was going on, and I'm suggesting that we be more us. Hmm. And here's the deal, we're gonna offend people. Like... 

    [00:02:32] Jolene: But I don't wanna offend anybody. But I get it. 

    [00:02:33] Nicole: I, I know. But that's, isn't that exhausting? 

    [00:02:36] Jolene: No. I think it's honoring, honorable. 

    [00:02:41] Nicole: Okay. Okay. 

    [00:02:42] Jolene: I, I, because I, I, um- I 

    [00:02:44] Nicole: mean, I don't like offending people either.

    [00:02:47] Jolene: Right. Right. So, um- 

    [00:02:50] Nicole: Anyway. 

    [00:02:51] Jolene: Okay. I think that's a really- That was- Okay. I love that. That's a really good question. 

    [00:02:54] Nicole: Okay Because sometimes I have to say that sometimes she'll [00:03:00] say things privately as girlfriends, and I just want you all to know them because it's so- ... you are so funny. 

    [00:03:09] Jolene: Okay. Okay, so let's take it a step further.

    [00:03:11] How does that help us, though? Do you think then it would make Democrats or liberals more endearing to, "Oh, I might, I might listen to her-" I think- "... because-" 

    [00:03:21] Nicole: I think, I, I know that, uh, some people don't like the word authentic, and I can understand it's overused. I think people really like rea- real or what they

    [00:03:33] Like, they wanna see all the warts and the flaws and- Yeah ... the funnies and the ... Because then they can go, "Oh, I relate to this person." Yeah, right. And so that's where I think that people like to relate to people. Yeah. People like to see themselves in others. Yeah. People like, people like to laugh. I mean, that's the other thing is that this, a lot of our material, a lot of our [00:04:00] topics can be, ugh, not only just dry, but, like- Yeah

    [00:04:04] hard to understand. And I think that's what, what we're also learning on We've Got to Talk is, like, what is this show? Who is our voice? What is our voice? What do we wanna- Oh, boy ... we want to, like, empower others. Please be a conservative, be a liberal. I don't, I don't care. You don't care. Yeah. We just want you to know that you have the power, that you, you, you, you don't have to rely on all the crap that is just being thrown at us all the time.

    [00:04:28] And in a world where you're fighting for attention, and we're putting out content just like thousands of other people, that I think the thing that when I'm watching content, I wanna relate to that person. Be genuine. Yeah. Right? 

    [00:04:42] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:04:42] Nicole: I don't, I don't

    [00:04:44] I mean, I can smell an actor a mile away. Yeah. I don't like fake. You don't want ... Who the likes fake? 

    [00:04:49] Jolene: No. 

    [00:04:49] Nicole: I think that's also why, in terms of politics, we get so turned off, all of us- Yeah ... these days, and why we're not trusting them. It's so performative. It's so performative. Yeah. And you're like, "Give me a break."

    [00:04:59] Yeah. [00:05:00] And that's, I think that also actually gets in, us, us as a country into trouble because then we're like, "We want something real." Like, "We wanna drink a beer with them." Yeah. Maybe, maybe. Yeah. Maybe, like, someone that can actually solve problems and drink a beer, that's cool. Yeah. But, like, it seems it, it's that swinging both- Yeah, 

    [00:05:18] Jolene: yeah

    [00:05:18] Nicole: t- too far, too far to the extremes. 

    [00:05:20] Jolene: Or don't you love, don't we love to see a politician say something on the Senate floor and then in a hot mic moment says, "Oh, God-" Yes ... "this is the stupidest thing. We really should have d-" I mean, that's 

    [00:05:30] Nicole: the- That's, that's the thing. 

    [00:05:31] Jolene: Right. Yeah. 

    [00:05:32] Nicole: That's the thing. Or, like, when Bill Cassidy, it, like, pounded on

    [00:05:35] It's like, oh, well, that's real. 

    [00:05:37] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:05:38] Nicole: Like, "Oh, you are a human being." 

    [00:05:39] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:05:40] Nicole: Okay. 

    [00:05:40] Jolene: All right. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. I don't think mine's as good, but here it is. what's one belief that the Democratic Party holds that you find hard to defend? 

    [00:05:52] Nicole: Wow. I'm not sure how this is gonna come across. It's more about what I have [00:06:00] struggles with the Democratic Party, like certainly the last several years, how they have handled themselves, is they prioritize minutiae instead of dealing with the big thing.

    [00:06:13] Mm. So it's not so much

    [00:06:17] For instance, the trans rights issue. Um, I'm all for people having rights, all kinds of people. But when we have a $40 trillion deficit, when we have, at least in our cities, I can't speak to the smaller towns, but at least in the cities, we have an enormous sh- homeless problem. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, there are so many huge issues that are, uh, quintessentially Democratic.

    [00:06:47] I'm like, "Focus on that." Yeah. This is what... Or gas prices are too high, or we're in a war that we don't wanna be in. These are like, why are you focusing on the less than 2%? I'm not saying, like, uh, [00:07:00] again, I am Nicole. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle I'm on, I want everyone to have rights. I want everyone to feel safe and seen and all the things.

    [00:07:10] But you're putting all your energy in this v- that's what I struggle with. Mm-hmm. Is like, why are you so myopic on this? Like, yeah, cool, mention it, and let's deal with all the other things And they don't. And I really honestly think, Jo, and I don't know if the re- maybe the Republicans are just better at it.

    [00:07:30] But I am always so, like, not understanding how these people that make a living advising politicians, because I think they give them horrible advice. Yeah. I think it's a con. Yeah. Like when ... And, and that's also where I think the performative stuff- Yeah ... gets re- Yeah ... because you're just like, "Wait, I actually liked you, and now all these people have gotten their hands on you."

    [00:07:54] Yeah. "They've completely confused you, so you don't know how to be, and I don't, I don't like you [00:08:00] anymore." Yeah, yeah. Like, now I'm done. And so, and I do think the Democratic Party is a complete mess. I heard an interview recently, and I'm forgetting the man's name, but the, the, the current man that is the head of the Democratic, the DNC.

    [00:08:15] Oh, yeah. And there was this whole thing about him throwing a phone. 

    [00:08:19] Jolene: Oh, I didn't know that. 

    [00:08:19] Nicole: Because he ha- has a temper. I think it was the New York Times. I can't remem- I'm, uh, forgive me, I d- I can't remember where it was. But they kept going back, "Okay, great. Great, sir. But what about throwing the phone?"

    [00:08:33] And he just would completely jo- dodge it. And I'm like, listen, if you had actually the first time said, "Yeah, I did." Yeah. "I was having a really bad day." "

    [00:08:42] Jolene: I was so frustrated." "

    [00:08:43] Nicole: I was so frustrated." Yeah. "We lost this," whatever. Whatever it was. Or like, "My wife and I got in a fight and I threw the phone across the wa- hall."

    [00:08:53] We might not think that that's the best behavior, but at least it's honest. And it would be the end 

    [00:08:56] Jolene: of the story, you know? 

    [00:08:57] Nicole: Right? Yeah, yeah. But it, there's always this like ... [00:09:00] And it just, as you've said so many times when we've, whatever topic it is, but it's like, do you think we're dumb? 

    [00:09:06] Jolene: No. 

    [00:09:06] Nicole: Right. Like I think, I think it doesn't matter what side of the

    [00:09:09] We're just so sick of like stop- 

    [00:09:11] Jolene: Talking points ... 

    [00:09:11] Nicole: talking points. Stop telling me what to think. Yeah. Like, I can, I can figure it out. Or if I'm understood- Yeah ... I'm not gonna watch. 

    [00:09:18] Jolene: Yeah, yeah. 

    [00:09:19] Nicole: So, did that answer ... I didn't mean to skirt- Well, 

    [00:09:23] Jolene: so what was the one belief? So I kind of feel like the answer is maybe trans issues.

    [00:09:28] Would that be safe? 

    [00:09:30] Nicole: To defend it? No, 'cause that's- No. What, what- ... that's not exactly w- um- That, that- That I have a hard time defending. I think I have a hard time defending the Democratic platform. How's that? Wow I think the Democratic Party is a total mess. Uh, I think they are just swinging so far left, uh, to grasping at straws thinking that that's the answer.

    [00:09:54] and the moderates who are actually progressive are getting primaried out. Yeah. Nobody's working [00:10:00] together. if I were part of the Democratic Party, not only would I, like, work with people that are more far left to figure out what they want, I'd also ta- go across the aisle, because a lot of Republicans are not happy with Trump, and I'd see what they want.

    [00:10:14] Yeah. that's the opportunity. Yeah. And I would say the same with my friends across the aisle that are- not really psyched about what's going on with Trump. Like, there's an opportunity here- and I do feel like it's the consultants that are doing it. 

    [00:10:25] Jolene: who are the people that work for the Congress people- Right

    [00:10:29] in, at, in the- Right ... White House and- 

    [00:10:31] Nicole: Right. The PR people, the- Yeah ... polishers. I don't know what their title is. 

    [00:10:37] Jolene: Why hasn't there been a Netflix series on those people? Oh, 

    [00:10:41] Nicole: I would watch that in a heartbeat. 

    [00:10:42] Jolene: Right? 

    [00:10:43] Nicole: In a heartbeat. Or if you think you'd be good at this-

    [00:10:51] Jolene: We'll go investigate it Like, uh, we'll get to the bottom of it. 

    [00:10:54] Nicole: Yes. 

    [00:10:54] Jolene: Who wants to produce that show? 

    [00:10:55] Nicole: Yes, let's do it. Raise 

    [00:10:57] Jolene: your 

    [00:10:57] Nicole: hand. Let's do- We'll do it. We'll do it. 

    [00:10:59] Jolene: Okay. 

    [00:10:59] Nicole: [00:11:00] All right. are there times during our podcast that you wanna scream, "You crazy, girl"? And, and have you held yourself back? And if so, when? Um, 

    [00:11:14] Jolene: okay, I can't think of a, 

    [00:11:16] Nicole: a 

    [00:11:17] Jolene: specific time. Mm-hmm. Because you do, I, like honestly, and I'm not just blowing smoke here, I, I really think that you do a good job, uh, a- a- and this is all part of, of what we've learned. you do a really good job of explaining h- uh, how you feel- Mm ... or what your stance is, or how you came to whatever it is that you think of. And so there are times when we're talking about something and, or, or, I'm researching and I'm like, "Oh, I know exactly what she's gonna say with this."

    [00:11:51] Um- But then you start into it and I'm like, "Well, okay." And, and I, and I know your heart and so that I'm like, [00:12:00] "Well, of course that's her answer. I mean, because she's just a good person and this is what she wants." And I don't always think it's realistic, but I know it's what you feel in your heart. Mm-hmm. And you, you know, we say so many times, you know, you're so kumbaya-

    [00:12:15] and you just want everybody... I want everyone to be... If you're, it- if you ever wanted to make our episode a drinking game- Drink every time Nicole says the word human. Oh. A- and you'll all be drunk- Okay ... by the time that this episode ends because your answer to everything is, "I just want us to recognize that everyone is a human, and we all-" And 

    [00:12:39] Nicole: I say it in that high voice too.

    [00:12:40] Jolene: Yes. Yeah. You say it like this. No, in my mind, this is how I hear you saying it. Mm. You maybe not really say it, but- 

    [00:12:46] Nicole: Okay ... 

    [00:12:47] Jolene: um, and so I, uh, like honestly, I think that you have- 

    [00:12:51] Nicole: So it has a h- you have a harder time being like, "Are you kidding me?" 

    [00:12:55] Jolene: No, I don't, I, I don't know that I've ever [00:13:00] honestly thought that. 

    [00:13:01] Nicole: I think at the very beginning, at the very beginning when we were trying to figure out how to do this thing, that it was sort of like, it felt like we were thinking we were supposed to play a part of like- Yeah

    [00:13:12] this is the left and this is the right. 

    [00:13:14] Jolene: This is my stance and I have to defend it. And 

    [00:13:15] Nicole: then all of a sudden it was like, "Wait a second, the, those things are made up." Yeah. I think that's the thing. It's so, it's such a gift for us and what we really want to impart to our, to all of you because it's so important.

    [00:13:28] Yeah. Because like you can have friends you've never had before or have those friends again, like have like- Yeah ... 'cause so much of it is just manipulation. But I 

    [00:13:38] Jolene: think the other thing that we learned too with our friend Larry Rosen, it's, it's okay to have a healthy relationship- Yeah ... with someone who, um, that you don't agree with, and you don't have to say, "God, you're really wrong about that."

    [00:13:54] I mean, there, like, what does that do? You're not going to change the other person's mind. But to really [00:14:00] get down into why you think the way that you do is so healthy. Because again, if you respect somebody, and I would... I say this to our girls, whether it's the spouse that you choose or your friends or somebody that you work with, when you genu- genuinely respect somebody, you're gonna listen to them and go, "Huh, okay.

    [00:14:18] Well, I mean, we can either agree to disagree," or, "Wow, you've made me think about that in a way that I hadn't before because I was thinking about it like this, and now you've... Because your heart has explained something, I'm like, 'Okay. Nope, I get why you say that.'" 

    [00:14:35] Nicole: But I think society wants us to fight. Oh, absolutely.

    [00:14:38] They want, they want us to... We have created this culture now with social media and that... And our brains as human beings, I said human, are, are hardwired to, to go towards that negative bias. And so you like, we like the conflict. We're cr- you know. Although, how... [00:15:00] People like puppy M- puppy videos. I mean, we do like that.

    [00:15:03] Jolene: Yeah 

    [00:15:04] Nicole: But there is definitely a, um, tr- push and pull trying to figure out, "Ugh, are we supposed to put more combative content out- 

    [00:15:15] Jolene: Yeah ... 

    [00:15:15] Nicole: when we're actually trying to be the antidote of that?" 

    [00:15:20] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:15:20] Nicole: Right? 

    [00:15:21] Jolene: Right

    [00:15:22] Is it my turn? 

    [00:15:23] Nicole: Yes, ma'am. 

    [00:15:24] Jolene: What is one belief Republicans hold that you actually agree with?

    [00:15:29] Nicole: this one's tricky

    [00:15:33] Uh, meaning that I don't consider Trump a Republican, and I think that there are a ton of Republicans that are just as horrified as the ton of them, of Democrats at this $40 trillion deficit. 

    [00:15:54] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. 

    [00:15:56] Nicole: I think it's like we're like, "Are you [00:16:00] kidding me? What do we do here?" This is, you know, in, like a tr- a traditional conservative, which is not what's happening right now, would...

    [00:16:11] Is... They're all rolling in their graves or rolling around upside, like what is happening? And I would encourage our, our listeners and viewers to understand that the liberals are feeling the same way. Yeah. Yes, we like to give money to community efforts, but I would say that there are Republicans that do, too, uh, that we have, that we've got this wrong and that we're all fairly horrified that this is...

    [00:16:38] Who wants debt? Yeah. This is bananas. 

    [00:16:40] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:16:40] Nicole: So I would say that's... Is that a fair answer? That's what I agree with. 

    [00:16:46] Jolene: You would like to see a, a reduction in the deficit and the debt. Yes, 

    [00:16:50] Nicole: absolutely, 1,000%, which is a traditional Republican- Yeah, no ... but I also am thinking that's not what's happening right now.

    [00:16:59] Jolene: Right. 

    [00:16:59] Nicole: [00:17:00] And, and maybe it's a misconception with liberals that we just wanna just spend, spend, spend, 'cause we're uncomfortable, too. Yeah. This is- 

    [00:17:08] Jolene: Okay. No, that's good ... this 

    [00:17:08] Nicole: is not, this is not. Yeah? 

    [00:17:11] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:17:11] Nicole: Okay. 

    [00:17:12] Jolene: Yeah. I 

    [00:17:13] Nicole: like that. All right. All right. All right. Has there ever been a time while we're doing this podcast, uh, whether it be in research or, like, as we record, where you've questioned your beliefs?

    [00:17:32] Jolene: You know what? I liked, and I know this episode didn't get nearly the traction that we would have hoped that it did, but that Alice proje- project that we did. Oh, that was 

    [00:17:41] Nicole: a good one. I'll put that in the show notes. 

    [00:17:44] Jolene: Yeah. Um, the, which was a, which was an, um, a project that United Way has kind of, um, start ki- I think it started, well, I don't know if it started with the L- Louisiana I think it 

    [00:17:56] Nicole: did start in Louis- Okay

    [00:17:57] maybe. Or New Jersey. Um, 

    [00:17:59] Jolene: yeah, I [00:18:00] do think it was New Jersey. Mm-hmm. But anyway, it was really geared towards the working poor.

    [00:18:04] It w- it was programs to help the working poor, and I- A 

    [00:18:08] Nicole: friend of yours suggested we do it ... 

    [00:18:10] Jolene: Kirby, who works for United Way, um, Louisiana said, you know, "I, I would love to see some publicity on this." there's probably, and again, making a generalization here, that Republicans are like, "You know what?

    [00:18:23] You just need to work harder and pull your s- yourself up by your bootstraps, and you too can make it." And I believe that that's true. I think there is a lot of truth to that, and I feel like there are a lot of people that take advantage of government programs that, because they can, and because we've allowed a system, um, to, to help those.

    [00:18:44] And, and we've gotten so big, those programs have gotten so big that we've not funded the actual oversight of those programs, so there's a lot of waste and fraud and abuse. I know you don't like those- ... that phrase together. But there is [00:19:00] a lot of that going on because we don't have the people within those organizations to be able to monitor where this money is going, and to audit, and to, you know, make sure that everything's on the up and up.

    [00:19:13] there really are people who need- 

    [00:19:16] Nicole: Yeah ... 

    [00:19:16] Jolene: help. That like they're in that gap of they don't qualify for governmental money and food stamps and- Mm-hmm ... but they're, but they are below the, you know, barely within the poverty level- Mm-hmm

    [00:19:30] of being able to pay for their monthly bills. Yes, 

    [00:19:33] Nicole: yes. 

    [00:19:33] Jolene: And you know, and we see this as housing- That 

    [00:19:34] Nicole: was super interesting. 

    [00:19:36] Jolene: Yeah. As housing gets more expensive- Mm ... and gas is more expensive and groceries are- And food. Mm-hmm ... yeah. Like, it's, um- 

    [00:19:42] Nicole: And they have no, they have no access to supplemental or to programs- Right

    [00:19:47] to government programs. '

    [00:19:48] Jolene: Cause they make too much. 

    [00:19:49] Nicole: But they can't afford life. Yeah. And they have two or three jobs. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so- Yeah ... that was surprising to you. So 

    [00:19:55] Jolene: I think that was surprising for me. Yeah. 

    [00:19:57] Nicole: Yeah, yeah, 

    [00:19:57] Jolene: yeah. That, um- 

    [00:19:58] Nicole: It was surprising to me. [00:20:00] 

    [00:20:00] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:20:01] Nicole: And I do, like... And, and to be honest, Jo, like- I, I've always been happy that there are government programs for people. That's, I- I've always felt, uh, that that's a good thing. 

    [00:20:16] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:20:17] Nicole: I've never thought about people taking advantage of it. 

    [00:20:22] Jolene: That's interesting. 

    [00:20:23] Nicole: And that is something in our podcast, learning, "Oh, that's why you, Jolene..." And this is another thing that we're working on about yes, she's a Republican.

    [00:20:37] Yes, she's a conservative. Yes, she's Christian. Yes, I'm liberal. Yes, I'm a Democrat. But I'm Nicole, and Jolene is Jolene. And so we all, and you are all of who you are, so that we're learning that of course, we're not just one thing or another thing. 

    [00:20:52] Jolene: Say human. Please say the word human. I 

    [00:20:54] Nicole: don't, I'm trying not to say human.

    [00:20:55] I know 

    [00:20:55] Jolene: you aren't. Drink anyway. 

    [00:20:56] Nicole: Drink it. Um, but all to say that [00:21:00] that's been a real gift- 

    [00:21:03] Jolene: Yeah ... 

    [00:21:04] Nicole: doing this podcast with you, sharing this podcast with you, about like, oh, and, and, and I know this is the kumbaya on me, I don't think that people take advantage of people. I'm always shocked. I am always shocked.

    [00:21:22] I really, I'm like, "Wait, what?" When you hear about all, all the like, I mean, gosh, like with my dad being, like so much elder care fraud. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. It just makes my heart hurt. Yeah. But it's sort of like, wait, that's why my friend Jolene gets upset about the overspending of government. I'm like, oh. 

    [00:21:44] Jolene: Hmm.

    [00:21:46] Nicole: Well, not only do I understand why you, like I don't want it either. 

    [00:21:51] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:21:52] Nicole: And does that make me less liberal? No. I just don't- But the 

    [00:21:55] Jolene: fact that you never thought about it before- 

    [00:21:57] Nicole: No, I never thought 

    [00:21:58] Jolene: about it ... that's what I think is interesting. 

    [00:21:59] Nicole: Never thought about [00:22:00] it before. I assumed they were just doing good.

    [00:22:02] Jolene: Yeah. Hmm. 

    [00:22:06] All right. 

    [00:22:06] Nicole: So the ALICE, the ALICE- 

    [00:22:08] Jolene: Yeah, the ALICE thing I think is really- 

    [00:22:09] Nicole: Thank you Kirby for- 

    [00:22:10] Jolene: Yeah ... 

    [00:22:11] Nicole: for that. Yeah. And, and thank you for the work that you do. 

    [00:22:13] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:22:14] Nicole: Um- 

    [00:22:14] Jolene: Yeah, 'cause I think that's- Yeah, 

    [00:22:15] Nicole: I agree. I didn't actually understand that, that there was this population of people that are really doing everything they can, two, three jobs, and are just can't- 

    [00:22:28] Jolene: Yeah

    [00:22:28] Nicole: get ahead. 

    [00:22:29] Jolene: Can't make it. And it's tougher now than it probably was a year ago. 

    [00:22:32] Nicole: Yeah. And ALICE is helping. 

    [00:22:34] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:22:34] Nicole: Right? 

    [00:22:34] Jolene: Right, that ALICE program. 

    [00:22:35] Nicole: Yeah. All 

    [00:22:36] Jolene: What's your go-to song at a karaoke bar? 

    [00:22:39] Nicole: Oh my God I've only done karaoke once 

    [00:22:45] Jolene: Oh, I see an event in our future this evening Oh, 

    [00:22:49] Nicole: it causes me so much anxiety 'cause I used to be a singer, and so I don't... There's so much pressure on it. It, I wish I could just let go, but there's too much pressure. I sang [00:23:00] Lan- Landslide.

    [00:23:01] Jolene: Oh, gosh. 

    [00:23:04] Nicole: Mm-hmm. But I was terrified, and a friend came up. Like, I, like, had... Yeah. 

    [00:23:08] Jolene: Stage fright? 

    [00:23:09] Nicole: A little bit. And I would love to just, like, get, just let go, maybe with a little alcohol and just not give a shit. See, that's the thing. And j- and just sing- When you're in a karaoke bar- ... and not care ... 

    [00:23:20] Jolene: nobody wants to sing, hear the good person sing.

    [00:23:22] Nicole: See, when you're in New York, there's a lot of incredible, incr- I mean, that is fun to g- to go and, like, hear these unbelievable singers. 

    [00:23:31] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:23:32] Nicole: It's not reality. Yeah. So, I have a totally skewed version of... But now I'm thinking what would I wanna sing? Holla Back Girl. 

    [00:23:42] Jolene: Okay. Love 

    [00:23:43] Nicole: that. That would be fun. 

    [00:23:44] Jolene: Yep.

    [00:23:44] Nicole: 'Cause that would get me out of my- 

    [00:23:46] Jolene: Right. 

    [00:23:46] Nicole: What is yours? 

    [00:23:48] Jolene: Well, m- mine is always Crazy by Patsy Cline. Oh. Because I just love it. 

    [00:23:52] Nicole: So good. 

    [00:23:53] Jolene: But if I were to... But, but the thing with a karaoke bar is I think, and I haven't done it for a long time, [00:24:00] but I think the thing that, um, people like is somebody who's fun- Yeah

    [00:24:06] and not just somebody who's getting up there and singing really good. Serious. Yeah, 

    [00:24:08] Nicole: it's like, 

    [00:24:08] Jolene: don't- And you're like, "Okay. Well, you're a good singer. You think you're a good singer." Oh, 

    [00:24:11] Nicole: exactly. Guess what? You think- You're not ... exactly. 

    [00:24:13] Jolene: You're not nearly as good as you think you are. 

    [00:24:14] Nicole: Exactly. 

    [00:24:16] Jolene: Um, These Boots Were Made for Walkin'.

    [00:24:18] Nicole: Oh, that's a good one. 

    [00:24:19] Jolene: That's a good one. Rich Girl. Suzy and I sang that up at Cruise Inn Thro- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... Throttle Down- Mm-hmm ... up here. Um- 

    [00:24:26] Nicole: Cruise and Throttle Down. 

    [00:24:28] Jolene: Cruise Inn. 

    [00:24:29] Nicole: Oh, Cruise Inn. 

    [00:24:31] Jolene: Like, the Cruise Inn, I-N-N, Throttle Down. I think we might be taking a little trip tonight. Huh. Um, people wanna hear fun sing...

    [00:24:43] But now you know what I think I have to sing? 

    [00:24:45] Nicole: Dolly. 

    [00:24:46] Jolene: Dol- Jolene. 

    [00:24:47] Nicole: Jolene. 

    [00:24:47] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:24:48] Nicole: Jolene. The Dolly version. 

    [00:24:50] Jolene: Dolly version. Right, right, right. 

    [00:24:51] Nicole: Even though the Ray Lamontagne version is good. We'll put all that in sh- in the show notes. Dolly. 

    [00:24:57] Jolene: RIP Dolly. 

    [00:24:57] Nicole: Dolly. 

    [00:24:58] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:24:58] Nicole: We love you. 

    [00:24:59] Jolene: [00:25:00] Okay. Here's your... 

    [00:25:00] Nicole: Okay. If you were president for a day You could pass three laws 

    [00:25:07] Jolene: Oh 

    [00:25:10] Nicole: What would they be? And we're not talking an executive order. We're talking about three laws that somehow miraculously Congress came together and passed that law for you. What would the three laws be?

    [00:25:25] Jolene: Uh, I would do a voter ID law. 

    [00:25:30] Nicole: Really? 

    [00:25:30] Jolene: And, and I, I would have to really think about how, like the in- intricacies, you know, is there mail-in ballots? Can you... I, I don't know about all that. Um, I'd have to really give that some thought. But I do think that w- it, our voting system ha- Like, you have to show an ID.

    [00:25:49] You have to be registered to vote, and there also needs to be then, um, you can walk in and vote, b- but it's, [00:26:00] um, that is a provisional ballot then, and we have to be able to have enough funding for these organizations, whether it's the, the local political board or whatever, then people that then can verify those people that have a provisional ballot- 

    [00:26:15] Nicole: Okay

    [00:26:15] Jolene: that, yes, that they, that they did just move here from Arkansas, and, uh, yes, that is a ballot and it counts. 

    [00:26:22] Nicole: Would you do it like Australia? 

    [00:26:24] Jolene: I, m- I... Mandatory voting? I mean, maybe. I, I think there's... 

    [00:26:29] Nicole: We were both pretty floored by that. 

    [00:26:30] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:26:31] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

    [00:26:33] Jolene: I just think that makes people more accountable. Okay, so, um, some type of, of voter ID- Okay

    [00:26:39] voter registration law- Okay ... would be number one. Okay. 'Cause I just think fo- I think if we've learned anything, it's how important it is to be knowledgeable of what's going on in our country, and not to an unhealthy extent to you're- Right ... you're watching news all day. Right. But to really understand what's going on and that your vote really does matter.

    [00:26:59] [00:27:00] okay, so that's number one. Maybe number two is there's no more executive orders 

    [00:27:04] Nicole: Oh I'd vote for you for president then ... 

    [00:27:09] Jolene: like everything's got to go through Congress. 

    [00:27:11] Nicole: Yes. 

    [00:27:12] Jolene: Because why do we have an executive order- Or, okay, uh, okay, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it a different way. You c- as a president, you can, um, y- you can execute an executive order, but Congress has to take it up within the next 30 days and debate it, and if, and, and develop whether it is a law, um, uh, they've created a bill, they've worked, you know, the both sides and through committees and done all the things.

    [00:27:46] Now, I know that logistically that probably, uh, uh, would be hard, but then you as president, you only get, you only get five executive orders in your four-year term. 

    [00:27:58] Nicole: Yes. 

    [00:27:58] Jolene: So use them wisely. [00:28:00] And then Congress, you got 30 days. There it is. There. There it 

    [00:28:02] Nicole: is. You just said it. 

    [00:28:04] Jolene: You just said it. Okay? 

    [00:28:05] Nicole: Listen. That's number 

    [00:28:06] Jolene: two.

    [00:28:06] Nicole: Okay. 

    [00:28:07] Jolene: Number three is

    [00:28:13] All right. No, it's gotta be, uh, y- y- you can't trade stocks, like the whole trading stocks. But what 

    [00:28:24] Nicole: about, what about, um... I'm just thinking now 'cause you're... About, um, money in political campaigns.

    [00:28:33] Jolene: Well, so that was g- that was my other thing was we get rid of PACs and super PACs and- the lobby- but then there's the lobbyists and, you know, their influence. 

    [00:28:46] Nicole: Get the lobbyists out. Can you imagine, you're like, you're auditioning to be the president or to be a senator and, or to be a congressperson, and we are going to give you a budget of $10,000.

    [00:28:59] How would you use it? 

    [00:28:59] Jolene: [00:29:00] Yeah. 

    [00:29:00] Nicole: Go. 

    [00:29:01] Jolene: Now, I do think, but I do think that lobbyists do play a- an important role. No, 

    [00:29:07] Nicole: I, I know. I 

    [00:29:08] Jolene: think- And so I think there just need to be some, um, some guardrails 

    [00:29:13] Nicole: there. Yeah, 'cause it doesn't seem like there's any accountability around it. Right. So I think there needs to 

    [00:29:17] Jolene: be more, um...

    [00:29:20] I- I- I think if their job is to investigate, no, to be able to educate, um, a voting member of Congress on this is why this is important, this bill is important to the farmers because, and I represent- Yeah ... um, you know, the farmers, future farmers of America, and I think this needs to be, you know, something that the FFA, it really stands behind and blah, blah.

    [00:29:48] I get that that's, um, that that's really important and that is needed. It's then obviously the ones that are, you know, big pharma- Mm-hmm ... that's giving [00:30:00] tons of money and wining and dining that, um, you know, that they're not supposed to take and we know that it's happening. 

    [00:30:07] Nicole: Mm-hmm. 

    [00:30:08] Jolene: Mm-hmm. So I, uh, uh, is that my third 

    [00:30:10] Nicole: one?

    [00:30:10] I think that was good. Yeah, that was good. Okay. That was good. And I realize, oh gosh, that's a hard one. 

    [00:30:14] Jolene: why are you so against AI? 

    [00:30:18] Nicole: Oh. It's a very good question. I'm gonna put this in the show notes 'cause I think this is super important. I just shared with Jolene and Brianna- Oh

    [00:30:28] but I just shared it as I was, like, flying to see her, so I know she hasn't had any time to look at it. Van Jones did this really great interview with Bill Gates, uh, on his Substack that is actually in, in its entirety. You don't have to... You're not a paid member for it, and I will put it in the show notes.

    [00:30:46] It's a really interesting conversation, and I think it stemmed from an article that Bill Gates wrote about AI and the, the, the positives and the dangers. Mm-hmm. And he is trying to create a committee [00:31:00] to help the world start to regulate. Mm-hmm. And for the very... That's what I realized I'm against. Um- 

    [00:31:10] Jolene: What?

    [00:31:11] Nicole: Eh- meaning, like, seeing this ar- reading an article that Bill wrote, Bill Gates wrote, and, uh, watching this interview with Van Jones, I was like, "These are my fears. This is why I'm concerned." I am... I think that there's some wonderful things about it, um, like in terms of, like, medical science, the things that we could really change the world.

    [00:31:36] Um, and it's funny now that I'm thinking about it, like, here I was, like, "I didn't know people, uh, committed fraud." Mm. Like, and I'm looking at AI going, "I don't trust the people that made this stuff." Like, I'm the opposite. Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking, "This-" Mm. "... you are all in it for the money, and you don't give a shit about us."

    [00:31:57] Mm-hmm. And I... This [00:32:00] scares me. Mm. And it's, you know... Has it affected my career? 1,000% - Yeah ... as an actor, 1,000%. But it's y- yes, and, like, actors are perpetually out of work. That's, like, I am used to being unemployed, and then you just hustle and you do other things. So I'm used to pivoting all the time, and I can complain about AI in that way, but wah, wah, okay.

    [00:32:25] Like, I also do believe that the arts are important and that people do crave, crave... They're gonna want human m- human-made things. And that there will be a backlash to some of that, like, slop that is going out. Cr- you know, music created by AI. Like, we're gonna want- 

    [00:32:48] Jolene: Yeah ... 

    [00:32:49] Nicole: actors and- Yeah ... films and all the things.

    [00:32:51] Um, but I'm more concerned about the bigger things. Like, if, if Bi- here's the deal. If Bill Gates [00:33:00] is alarmed, I'm alarmed. Yeah. Because I don't know what I'm talking about. 

    [00:33:03] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:33:04] Nicole: Bill Gates does. Yeah. And so I appreciate, and the way Van Jones, um, presented it, he was like, "Here you are, like, the, you are, like, the king of tech, or you've been in this world, but you're also an au- um, a, an enormous philanthropist."

    [00:33:19] Mm-hmm. Like, so he's sort of the perfect person to help head this. Yeah. To be like, "Hey, we need to honor, like, respect what we're doing, honor it. This could be an incredible thing, but we really... Do we want huma-" I said it again. Do you want humanity to go on or not? 

    [00:33:37] Jolene: Mm-hmm. 

    [00:33:38] Nicole: But I also know that we have a tendency, people have a tendency to be dramatic.

    [00:33:47] Like, we are, we, "Oh my God, it's gonna be horrible." But we also know it's going re- faster than they- Yeah ... ever thought. Yeah. So I want it to be used for good. What I don't [00:34:00] like, and this is something it just makes me sad, that we are in a state, a deep state of loneliness.

    [00:34:09] Um, we see it every day. People are more interested in their phones than they are, like, saying hello to someone. I think that's a... Like, human beings are, um, we are wired to connect. That's... We are. And so, like, the fact that people are falling in love with their AI chatbot, um, and we can joke about it, but it's really happening.

    [00:34:34] And that they're... Like, it's so sycophantic. Is that the word I want? It's the, um, you know, saying how great you are. 

    [00:34:42] Jolene: Oh, yeah. 

    [00:34:42] Nicole: That, um, that... And, and, you know- ... there have been suicides. There's been some dark stuff. Okay. And so I'm- 

    [00:34:49] Jolene: All right. But hold on. Let me get more specific then. Okay. Because if we're researching something and you will go, "Did you AI, uh, eh, did you use AI for this?"

    [00:34:56] Nicole: Oh. 

    [00:34:57] Jolene: Or if I say, "Well, I don't, I don't..." [00:35:00] Um, what were you talking about? Um- There was... We, we,

    [00:35:07] we just- ... wanting to go see Crystal Bridges, and I said, "Well, I asked, I asked chat, 'What would be the best way to go see Crystal Bridges?'" And you're like, "Oh my God." "Are you kidding me? Why..." In that context, why are you against AI? 

    [00:35:17] Nicole: I'm not, I'm, mm. 

    [00:35:20] Jolene: Do you think it's inauthentic? 

    [00:35:22] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And I think sometimes they're wrong, but that said, uh, my girlfriend Courtney, shout out Courtney, uh, she loves Claude and she, we, we all went to Stockholm together for a week.

    [00:35:35] It was such a fun trip. And she was in charge of all the restaurants, and Claude helped the girl out, and Claude was not wrong. So we had a blast, so I'm gonna give Claude some ups. I'm not against AI, I just... I want people to f- to maybe think about it first and then go to AI.

    [00:35:54] Jolene: Okay. Wait. So you will Google something. 

    [00:35:56] Nicole: I know. I do. I do Google something, but, [00:36:00] like, that little, like, even in Google world, they d- have this, like, AI thing. I don't even look at that. I go down because sometimes it's wrong. 

    [00:36:08] Jolene: But you know that AI does the same thing. AI, if you, if you go into ChatGPT, it's scanning all- Yeah, yeah, yeah

    [00:36:19] these articles just like Google would, and says... And then it comes up, and it puts it in your, you know- Yeah ... simpler language. Yeah. Instead of saying, "Okay, I've looked- Yeah ... at these 14 articles, and here's the synopsis- Yeah ... of it." 

    [00:36:31] Nicole: I... And I also, like, uh, I mean, this is a whole episode in itself, but I feel like I worry about it with the kids because it's really important to lear- learn how to think- 

    [00:36:41] Jolene: Yeah

    [00:36:42] Nicole: and learn how to think critically and explore and play, meaning play in your brain. And if you're just asking a- We're, you know, w- we're, we're- Yeah ... we're breeding, like, dead people- 

    [00:36:55] Jolene: Yeah ... 

    [00:36:55] Nicole: kind of. Yeah. And I just don't think that's healthy. 

    [00:36:57] Jolene: No. I agree. 

    [00:36:58] Nicole: But like anything, [00:37:00] it's a big new thing, and some people really take to it.

    [00:37:04] Yeah. Some people are more cautious. I don't think we're gonna stop it. I know that we need to embrace it, but I just want it to be more regulated. 

    [00:37:13] Jolene: Okay. 

    [00:37:14] Nicole: if you could create our next administration, who would be in it? It doesn't have to be partisan. President, vice president, couple cabinet members. Who would you like it to be? With the people that we know now. 

    [00:37:31] Jolene: Okay, well, you and I would be co-presidents.

    [00:37:33] Nicole: Oh, oh. Okay. 

    [00:37:36] Jolene: I mean, come on, that would be really good. It would be good. 

    [00:37:40] Nicole: But I was thinking about the people that are there right now. 

    [00:37:43] Jolene: Oh. 

    [00:37:44] Nicole: Or c- or coming up or... 

    [00:37:46] Jolene: Like in real life? In 

    [00:37:47] Nicole: real life. 

    [00:37:47] Jolene: Like who we like. Okay. 

    [00:37:48] Nicole: Yeah. Um, like if you could see the America you... Like, from everything that you've learned so far doing this podcast, [00:38:00] we've both learned a ton- 

    [00:38:01] Jolene: Mm-hmm

    [00:38:02] Nicole: about, like, pulling back the Iron Curtain, as it were, to see what's going on. 

    [00:38:08] Jolene: I mean, I like Marco Rubio for 2028. 

    [00:38:12] Nicole: You would want him to be the president? 

    [00:38:13] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:38:14] Nicole: Okay. Who would be his VP? 

    [00:38:16] Jolene: Um, Nikki Haley. I, 

    [00:38:19] Nicole: I knew you were gonna say that. I know. Yeah. I knew you were gonna say that. What about cabinet members?

    [00:38:25] Jolene: Um, you know who I really love that I think is doing a fantastic job? Um, she's the Secretary of Agriculture, Rollins, um- Oh, 

    [00:38:35] Nicole: I don't know anything about her. I- She, is she from Iowa? 

    [00:38:37] Jolene: Uh, no, she's from Texas. 

    [00:38:38] Nicole: Okay. 

    [00:38:39] Jolene: I think she's really good, and I really, um, I really do like her. I think she's ... A- and I don't know that much about what the Department of Agriculture does.

    [00:38:49] Nicole: So what do you like about her? 

    [00:38:50] Jolene: But I like her because she comes from a ranching family. She's done some stuff in Iowa with, with some farming bills and stuff that I think has been really [00:39:00] critical. Um, i- she's been very vocal about, um, like when the, the fly that was ... Did you hear about the, um, God, what was the fly that was just a- in the news a month ago?

    [00:39:14] Nicole: There was- A pe- a pest? 

    [00:39:15] Jolene: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That was, um, there was an infestation of these, um ... God, uh, uh, I'm sure you, viewer, are saying the word right now and I can't think of it. But this fly that was, um, really killing a bunch of cattle in South Texas, and, um, just some of the programs then that they, um, that, that she kinda spearheaded to get rid of it.

    [00:39:39] I, I just think she's brilliant. She's a woman. I just, I love her. 

    [00:39:42] Nicole: Okay. 

    [00:39:42] Okay, I'm gonna lead this question. Okay. Would you put any Democrats on your cabinet? 

    [00:39:46] Jolene: Yeah, I would. I don't know who they are right now- ... but, I mean, I would. No, I just, I do, because I think- Are 

    [00:39:52] Nicole: there any people, like, that you've learned

    [00:39:54] 'Cause now we watch C-SPAN for fun. Uh, so I'm learning [00:40:00] about Jeff Merkley was the guy's name, by the way, with Ron Johnson. Right, 

    [00:40:05] Jolene: right. 

    [00:40:06] Nicole: Um- Somehow it, somehow it came out as, as the Mer- Mer- I heard 

    [00:40:09] Jolene: you and Josh talking 

    [00:40:10] Nicole: about it ... Merkley guy. And I'm like- Oh, yeah ... "No, no, no, not him. Not him." 

    [00:40:14] Jolene: I don't know that much about Talarico yet. 

    [00:40:17] Nicole: Right, right. 

    [00:40:18] Jolene: I mean, I think we both liked him at the state level. 

    [00:40:21] Nicole: Mm-hmm. 

    [00:40:22] Jolene: We'll see if he can 

    [00:40:25] Nicole: weather the storm. Well, it's interesting because you just had football on. 

    [00:40:28] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:40:29] Nicole: And I don't know who- I don't know if it's because it's in Missouri, 'cause it's ESPN, but I would imagine it's local- 

    [00:40:37] Jolene: Commercials

    [00:40:37] Nicole: commercials. And they just did a Talarico commercial that was so, so slanted in a way. It was like they had a state of Texas. 

    [00:40:48] Jolene: Oh, it's because- And they put- ... TCU is playing, so I'm sure it was a national commercial. 

    [00:40:52] Nicole: Well, it was about China, and they had Xi Jinping in the state of Texas, and, like, Talarico's selling out to [00:41:00] China.

    [00:41:00] Yeah. And I'm looking at it going, "

    [00:41:02] Jolene: What?" 

    [00:41:02] Nicole: Like, I, I don't even know what that means. Yeah. And I thought, "Ugh, here we go again." 

    [00:41:08] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:41:08] Nicole: Here we go again. 

    [00:41:09] Jolene: Yeah. uh, you know- What 

    [00:41:11] Nicole: about Nikki Haley? Um- 

    [00:41:13] Jolene: She's 

    [00:41:13] Nicole: a governor ... 

    [00:41:14] Jolene: maybe. I don't know enough of what she has done. She kind of ran on a centrist platform- But, yeah ... but then after she got elected, she's done, I think, a couple things that have gotten some attention that, oh, she's not as, as m- middle of the road as- Mm

    [00:41:31] as she said that she was going to be during the, um- Right ... campaign. 

    [00:41:35] Nicole: I mean, I w- I- And I don't know specifics ... I'll put, I'll put it in the show notes, but I just read, um, Ry Barcott's book, Courage Can Save Us. Mm. And he profiles 10, uh, people, five Democrats, five Republicans, who served in the military and are now serving in our government.

    [00:41:53] Mm. Mm-hmm. And it's a beautiful book, and I absolutely recommend it. And I was, like, huge fans of all of the people that [00:42:00] he profiled, and now, now I'm following them all on Instagram, the Republicans- Mm ... and the Democrats, and the- I bet they're 

    [00:42:04] Jolene: amazing ... 

    [00:42:04] Nicole: and I was like, she was... I mean, they're all so impressive how they, they choose to serve our country, and then choose to serve our country again.

    [00:42:12] Jolene: Absolutely. I would, I would, uh, would... That would be somebody- Yeah ... I mean, if I'm interviewing and I'm looking at your resume- Right ... and you served in the military, and, and, and especially in a c- at a combat unit, uh, 100%. 

    [00:42:24] Nicole: And, and, and this guy, Ry Bar- Barcott, he created withhonor.org, and I'll put that in the show notes as well, and it is about encouraging service people that to then serve the government, because they have- Perfect

    [00:42:36] whether they're a Democrat or Republican, they have skills. They have innate leadership skills- Yeah ... that are just, that we could all use that for our country. Um, 

    [00:42:45] Jolene: I'll tell you what, I would look at Rahm Emanuel for maybe the Department of Education. I mean- I 

    [00:42:49] Nicole: like him, too ... 

    [00:42:50] Jolene: I, I would love to see, I think he did some, some really good things, um, in the public school systems in Chicago.

    [00:42:58] Nicole: Mm-hmm. 

    [00:42:58] Jolene: Um, and again, I don't [00:43:00] know specifics. I mean, this is just like a generalization. Sure. So, um, but just some of the programming and some of the results that he got from what he did, um, I might look at somebody like him. 

    [00:43:12] Nicole: Do you think we'll ever have a government where we have a president of one party and a VP of another?

    [00:43:19] Jolene: That, 

    [00:43:20] Nicole: that's what I would like ... 

    [00:43:21] Jolene: Josh and I started talking about that last night because there was some talk that, um, he was a senator that has now passed away. Lieberman. 

    [00:43:30] Nicole: Oh, yes. 

    [00:43:31] Jolene: It was like Lieberman- Yeah, Joe 

    [00:43:32] Nicole: Lieberman ... 

    [00:43:33] Jolene: and, um, McCain. Mm-hmm. 

    [00:43:35] Nicole: Mm-hmm 

    [00:43:35] Jolene: Or like there was Joe Manchin and McCain when Joe Manchin was still a Democrat.

    [00:43:40] I 

    [00:43:40] Nicole: think, I think Lieberman was supposed to be, and then the whole what's her bucket. What's her name? The Alaska girl. 

    [00:43:47] Jolene: Oh, Sarah 

    [00:43:48] Nicole: Palin. Palin. That that wasn't even McC- like, that was, they swooped her in 

    [00:43:53] Jolene: and- Mm. 

    [00:43:55] Nicole: Yeah ... he was not happy about that. Yeah. I think, yeah, I don't think that was the best [00:44:00] choice. But anyway.

    [00:44:00] Jolene: So I, yeah, I could see it. I think just we're too divisive right now for it to happen, but. But 

    [00:44:08] Nicole: how amazing would that be? It would just be like, "Hey, we're gonna do things totally differently here." 

    [00:44:13] Jolene: Right. Right. 

    [00:44:15] Nicole: Just put in really good people- Yeah ... with really good brains and, and hearts and all of that. 

    [00:44:20] Jolene: Yeah.

    [00:44:22] Um- All 

    [00:44:22] Nicole: right ... 

    [00:44:23] Jolene: okay. Um, what is one thing that I don't know about you? 

    [00:44:28] Nicole: That's so funny. I was gonna ask that. 

    [00:44:30] Jolene: Really? 

    [00:44:31] Nicole: Uh-huh. What is one thing that you don't know about me? 

    [00:44:38] Jolene: Which is funny because I wrote these questions a couple days ago, and then you said something about shorts, and I'm- ... and you go, "I don't wear shorts in the summer."

    [00:44:44] And I go, "I did not know that about you." 

    [00:44:47] Nicole: Exactly. Like, 

    [00:44:47] Jolene: how do you not wear shorts in the summer? I 

    [00:44:49] Nicole: don't like shorts. I think they, I think shorts, can that be the one? shorts- Okay ... don't- 

    [00:44:54] Jolene: All right ... 

    [00:44:55] Nicole: shorts look good on everyone but me. That's not true. I wear dresses. I wear skirts. [00:45:00] Yeah. I'm just not a shorts girl.

    [00:45:02] So, you know, listen. The menopause thing, like everything is just, yeah 

    [00:45:10] Jolene: Shifting and turning and ... 

    [00:45:11] Nicole: shifting and 

    [00:45:12] Jolene: I've, 

    [00:45:12] Nicole: I got these things now and I, curves that I didn't have, and I'm like, "Ah, what do I do?" So that's, that's one thing. What else do you not know about me? I can get really shy. Um... 

    [00:45:27] Jolene: Okay. I did not know that about you either. And remember you went to that thing- Yes ... and you were like, "I got there and I 

    [00:45:33] Nicole: just-" I panicked. I don't do well, like... So what, it was in university, we went to University of Iowa, and it was an Iowa fundraiser, and it was at the Columbus Circle.

    [00:45:46] It was at this very fancy venue. I was coming from my own life, so I was, like, in sneakers. I mean, I looked nice-ish, but it was, like, kind of after work corporate crew. And, um, [00:46:00] and I, I, I mean, my mission was accomplished. I got to see my contact who I got to see, and then I went and had coffee with her later.

    [00:46:07] But going in there and seeing all these... I mean, here I am, I'm 57, and I'm like, "These are grown-ups." Like, I- ... I don't, I'm like, "I, I'm not a grown-up." Like, that, there... And I'll go through that, that I know that about myself. I can be very confident. I- And I would just need you, or I would even need, like, a f- Yeah.

    [00:46:28] It doesn't matter. Yeah. If I had one other friend, but sometimes... Like, we were gonna, I was gonna go do this event next month, to meet Sarah Longwell from the Bulwark, and it's a very expensive ticket. And so I was gonna have to go alone. I'm like, "I'm not wasting that money." I know myself.

    [00:46:46] I'm just not... It's not, it's not gonna be, it's not gonna be it. So that's it. That would be it. 

    [00:46:52] Jolene: Okay. 

    [00:46:52] Nicole: What is something that I don't know about you?

    [00:46:55] Jolene: Did you know that my very first car was a pickup truck that didn't have reverse? [00:47:00] How does that work? I've never told you that? No. My very first car was, um, a p- my dad has a construction company. And, um- ... and so it was an old white Chevy pickup that was, um, maybe 10 years old or something, and it had more rust than it had paint.

    [00:47:21] And, um, and so when I turned 16, he gave me this pickup truck, and I was so excited. I cleaned that sucker up ins- I mean, and it was disgusting. It was so gross. I mean, it was s- sitting in the lumberyard for, you know, a long time, and, uh, it, anyway. I was so proud of that pickup. You know the very first thing I did?

    [00:47:40] I put the bumper sticker I heart NY in the my, in my back window- 

    [00:47:44] Nicole: You did? ... 

    [00:47:45] Jolene: that I had gotten in New York, and I said I could not wait to put that in my very first car. Isn't that ironic? 

    [00:47:50] Nicole: I know. I like that. 

    [00:47:51] Jolene: And, um, but the thing was, it didn't 

    [00:47:54] have reverse. And, um- How 

    [00:47:57] Nicole: does that work? ... 

    [00:47:58] Jolene: my dad said... I said, "So we're gonna [00:48:00] get that fixed, right?"

    [00:48:01] And he goes, "Nope. I think that this is, this will be really good for you, because it will always make you think about where you're going. And, like, like, you're, like, you can't obviously pull in to a," you know, "a parking spot 'cause how are you gonna get out? And so you always-" You certainly can't 

    [00:48:19] Nicole: live in San Francisco.

    [00:48:21] Jolene: Right. No, I 

    [00:48:21] Nicole: mean you- You can't parallel park. You 

    [00:48:22] Jolene: can't- You can do that in Pleasantville, Iowa. Now, the funny part was- ... um, so I, I would have to pi- uh, so, like, at, I parked in our street, and I would, when I would come home, I would pull up into, like, the, the apron part of, of your driveway. You know, the s- the s- this kind of slanted part before you got to the driveway.

    [00:48:43] Okay So the, the, the part of the driveway that meets the road has kind of got a, a slant to it. So I would pull up there, I would put it in neutral and let it roll back, and then park in the, into the street. Oh my 

    [00:48:58] Nicole: God, you had to get so creative. 

    [00:48:59] Jolene: You [00:49:00] really had to think about it. And now, I mean- How long 

    [00:49:01] Nicole: did you have that car for?

    [00:49:03] Jolene: Oh, like, at least a year. 

    [00:49:04] Nicole: Geez Louise. 

    [00:49:05] Jolene: And so it was... But it was great because, um, it, it was such a metaphor for life. Like, you can't just hop in and take off. You gotta think about where you're going and how are you gonna get there, and when you get there, how are you gonna get out? And I mean, it was, it was brilliant.

    [00:49:22] except when then, like, at school I would s- I would park in the school parking lot, and I would park where I could just ride, go right over the curb to leave, 'cause there was no... Like, it was a flat parking lot. And so I would park, um, like, in the, wherever I could, but so that I could just park right next to the curb so I could just drive over the curb.

    [00:49:44] Well, then people would get smart, and they would park in front of me. That's what I 

    [00:49:48] Nicole: was gonna say. And like, everybody- 

    [00:49:49] Jolene: And then you're screwed ... so then everybody knew that I had a pickup that didn't have reverse. And so I'd go to softball practice, and people would park right in front of me. They, 'cause they just thought that was really funny 

    [00:49:57] Nicole: Wow.

    [00:49:59] [00:50:00] Wow 

    [00:50:00] Jolene: So there it is 

    [00:50:01] Nicole: Fun farm tricks 

    [00:50:02] Jolene: Yep 

    [00:50:04] Nicole: Wow. It's good. Wow 

    [00:50:05] Jolene: Good metaphor for life 

    [00:50:07] Nicole: That's right. That's right. 

    [00:50:09] Jolene: Okay. Do you have a would you rather? 

    [00:50:10] Nicole: I do. 

    [00:50:10] Jolene: Okay 

    [00:50:11] Nicole: Okay

    [00:50:17] Would you rather Make the We've Got to Talk podcast be wildly successful, healing throughout our divided country. 

    [00:50:30] Jolene: Yes. 

    [00:50:31] Nicole: We just heal, heal this toxic, divisive cesspool that we're in. 

    [00:50:38] Jolene: Yes. 

    [00:50:40] Nicole: Or Have the 2028 president be a Republican.

    [00:50:52] Jolene: No, we could do more good- 

    [00:50:54] Nicole: I think so too ... 

    [00:50:55] Jolene: being wildly successful. 

    [00:50:56] Nicole: And I was really hoping that you would say that because I [00:51:00] 

    [00:51:00] Jolene: was like, "Wah, 

    [00:51:00] wah." Wow. So if you would've gone with the other one, w- like cut. We're done. We're done here. 

    [00:51:09] Nicole: And this was our last episode. Thank you very much. 

    [00:51:12] Jolene: Thank you for joining.

    [00:51:14] Okay? 

    [00:51:14] Nicole: Yes. 

    [00:51:15] Jolene: Nicole? 

    [00:51:16] Nicole: Yes, ma'am. 

    [00:51:17] Jolene: Would you rather vote for a member of the DSA or reduce the national debt? 

    [00:51:23] Nicole: Oh, reduce the national debt in a heartbeat. 

    [00:51:27] Jolene: I knew you'd say that. 

    [00:51:28] Nicole: That was a little easy for me actually. 

    [00:51:31] Jolene: I know, but it really was meant to show like the extremes on both ends. Like- 

    [00:51:36] Nicole: Oh ... 

    [00:51:37] Jolene: I mean. 

    [00:51:38] Nicole: I think it would've been like, would you rather, I'm rewriting your would you rather.

    [00:51:41] Jolene: All right. 

    [00:51:41] Nicole: Would you rather vote for Chevalier, who in my brain, I don't know if this is true, she feels like the most left of the left in the DSA, or Tuckl- Tucker Carlson? Or who's like the most right MAGA? 'Cause he's not Tu- he's not [00:52:00] MAGA anymore. 

    [00:52:01] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:52:01] Nicole: Who would be? Who would be? I don't even know. 

    [00:52:04] Jolene: Um. 

    [00:52:05] Nicole: Oh. Who- Stephen Miller.

    [00:52:07] Jolene: Oh, okay. 

    [00:52:10] Nicole: Oh. The... I would be like, "I give up." 

    [00:52:13] Jolene: Dang. 

    [00:52:14] Nicole: Surrender. I want a new America. I 

    [00:52:15] Jolene: really just meant it for like DSA, we're not gonna do anything about the debt. 

    [00:52:20] Nicole: Do you think that that's true? 

    [00:52:21] Jolene: Oh, yeah. I mean, how, how can you give away that many governmental programs- Oh 

    [00:52:25] Nicole: my God ... 

    [00:52:26] Jolene: and not affect the, the, the debt and deficit?

    [00:52:30] Nicole: Democrats.

    [00:52:34] Everybody wake up. Wake up. It's time to heal this. It's time to heal this. Don't swing so far left. Don't swing so far right. The rest of us wanna make this thing work. We need to learn to play together. Yep. Period. 

    [00:52:48] Jolene: And just be human.

    [00:52:52] Humans Thank you for joining us. Thank you for coming into my home. 

    [00:52:57] Nicole: Thank you. 

    [00:52:58] Jolene: Thank you for visiting me. 

    [00:52:59] Nicole: Thank you. [00:53:00] I'm so grateful. Thank you for your friendship. I love you so much. 

    [00:53:02] Jolene: We love you. We love you and Josh. 

    [00:53:04] Nicole: I love your family. 

    [00:53:05] Jolene: We love having you here. 

    [00:53:06] Nicole: Yeah. So- Thank you. And thank you guys so much for being here.

    [00:53:10] Thumbs up on YouTube. Uh, like, subscribe, follow. 

    [00:53:14] Jolene: Share. 

    [00:53:14] Nicole: Share, share. 

    [00:53:15] Jolene: Tell a friend. 

    [00:53:16] Nicole: If you're having a hard time talking to someone, share the podcast. 

    [00:53:20] Jolene: Yeah. 

    [00:53:21] Nicole: That would be helpful. All right. Thanks everybody. Thank you everybody. 

    [00:53:23] Jolene: Bye. 

    [00:53:24] 

Brianna Ansaldo
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