Are we getting canceled?
One wrong social media post. One controversial opinion. That's all it takes to see your business suffer in 2025. Today we’re taking a look at the brutal reality of cancel culture - what actually happens when your views don't match the majority. From death threats sliding into DMs to orchestrated boycott campaigns, Nicole and Jolene reveal the true cost of speaking up in an era where silence feels safer.
The reality of cancel culture hits particularly close to home for Jolene, who runs the successful business Dible Dough, a thriving cookie dough brand built from scratch over the last 10 years. Every time she shares a conservative viewpoint on the We’ve Got To Talk podcast, there's that nagging fear that her views may ruffle the feathers of potential customers.
Cancel culture in 2025 isn't about healthy debate or constructive criticism. It's about destruction. A single controversial opinion can unleash a digital mob armed with boycott hashtags and fake reviews. Business pages get flooded with one-star ratings from people who've never touched the product. Personal accounts get bombarded with threats. The digital pile-on doesn't just stay online - it bleeds into real life, affecting relationships, partnerships, and business opportunities.
Through our decades of friendship, we’ve come to learn that people are so much more than their political views. They are complex. We have all come from vastly different backgrounds with unique experiences that have shaped us into who we are. We’re all continually evolving too, and so to cancel someone based solely on their political views is extremely close-minded.
When someone gets reduced to a single tweet or political stance, society loses the chance to understand the experiences that shaped those views.
The most dangerous impact of cancel culture isn't the loud voices demanding boycotts - it's the voices we never hear. How many important conversations die in draft folders? How many perspectives get buried under layers of fear? How many bridges never get built because everyone's afraid to take the first step?
Two women from opposite sides of the political spectrum refuse to let fear win. While Jolene still worries about Dible Dough and Nicole still concerns herself with a potential backlash, we’ve decided that honest, respectful dialogue matters more than playing it safe.
Your Turn to Talk
Are you holding back your truth? Have you swallowed your words because the risk felt too high? The conversation continues on Instagram and YouTube channel "We've Got to Talk." Because in a world where cancel culture thrives on division, real conversation might be the only way forward.
- Nicole & Jolene
P.S. Thinking about canceling either of us after reading this? Try having a real conversation first. Coffee beats keyboard warfare every time. 😉
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Healing Out Loud - Instagram
Progress Network - Instagram
LINKS:
-
Nicole: [00:00:00] the beginning of every record, you and I have the biggest Cheshire cat grins on our face.
Jolene: Uh, okay. But to be fair, it's because we have these conversations before we hit record. And so then, and so what we've gotten better about like hitting record as soon as I see you so that we can capture some of that
Nicole: that's right. That's right.
Jolene: the bad words and the naughty
Nicole: well, well, clearly I have no problem with bad words on the pod podcast. He
Jolene: Uh, yes.
that's the feedback I got from the person who cuts my mother's hair.
Nicole: Yeah, I bet. I bet.
Jolene: Ah, that other girl sure. Cusses a lot. that
Nicole: cuss a lot.
Jolene: I know. I said, but I know. But Mom, just please explain to her that she's a liberal liberals cuss. It's okay. It's, they don't mean it.
Nicole: Oh my gosh, I don't even know that word cuss. That word cuss seems so old fashioned too.
Jolene: Would you [00:01:00] say the F word in front of your dad? Like,
Nicole: My dad says the F word in front of me.
Jolene: okay. All right. That's
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, sometimes I really try not to swear. Certainly when. When my nieces were younger, I was really tried as mindful as possible. Um, but then, you know, new Yorkers swear, I try to be aware of my audience, but in this case, I think part of the goal is to be ourselves.
And so I'm trying not to
Jolene: I don't want you to
Nicole: myself. Thank you, my friend. yeah. So how are you doing?
Jolene: I'm good.
Nicole: Yeah.
Jolene: How are
Nicole: good week? I'm good. I'm good.
Jolene: , you have another beautiful blouse on
Nicole: Thank you. You have another cozy sweater on.
Jolene: I have an old sweater. Again, please subscribe so we can get a budget for,[00:02:00]
Nicole: For wardrobe.
Jolene: wardrobe. Yeah.
Nicole: Oh my God, you're hilarious. , I guess because I like homework and Brianna asked us, she gave us specific homework for the beginning of this episode.
Jolene: Brianna's our producer.
Nicole: she's incredible. We love her so she gave us an assignment 'cause we, uh, shared a post of feedback from, as it turns out, Jolene's best friend. And we've gotten Susie's permission to share part of her post with, with everyone. But Brianna, we sent it to Brianna , she was like, you've gotta share this.
And when you sent this to me, Jolene that launch day was just totally surreal in the first place. Uh, it felt like, I don't know how you felt. I felt like I was having an outer body experience. Um, it was a very strange situation where friends and family would reach out and then [00:03:00] people, I don't know, were reaching out and, um, it became very real and very vulnerable and very exciting.
Like all the feels
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: Did you feel the same?
Jolene: Oh, yes. And, and it didn't like hit me until I started getting responses and comments and all that, and I'm like, oh, people are looking at it or listening to it. Like it, it's, it's happening.
Nicole: . It's a real thing. From the beginning of this idea. Um, I was so protective of you. That's all I cared about was making sure that you would feel safe and protected in this. And when we were talking to Brianna originally, that was my first and foremost, uh, concern was that I didn't want this to be clickbait.
I wanted this to be a new, fresh perspective and something brave and, and courageous and loving, and that I didn't want, you know, you to get bombarded with hate. [00:04:00] 'cause that's the, that's sort of the, the world we're in these days. And I said to you last week that it didn't occur to me the arrogant liberal that I am, that maybe I would get some hate too. It just, honestly, I swear to God, obviously I told you it didn't occur to me. And so when you sent me this text from your best friend, Susie. Not text, but the post that she had on her Facebook page, I read it and just like tears in my eyes. I couldn't believe it. I was so moved. Uh, so I'm going to share part of it because Brianna has told us to share part of it. So here you go. She says, woke up today feeling nervous. Nervous because one of my favorite people in the world, AKA Jolene, was starting a podcast and not just any podcast, but a [00:05:00] podcast between one of her longtime friends who sits on the opposite side of the political spectrum than where she resides.
And the actual purpose of this podcast is to talk about the differences. I was nervous because, to be honest, I've lost friends and relationships over this election. Not on my end, but because they decided who I was. I'm gonna cry.
Jolene: Oh,
Nicole: Sorry.
Jolene: I love this. Okay.
Nicole: not from our time together or shared experiences or deep talks through the years, but because of a vote. So imagine my surprise to hear the first episode of We Need To Talk.
It's actually, we've got to talk, but that's okay. Uh, and to really, really like it. Why you ask number one, it was funny, [00:06:00] which with Jolene involved, I always knew that would be the case. Me too. I knew that too. Number two, it was open-minded. Both sides conceded to the crazy that exists in all of politics, including the side they love.
Number three, it was shocking. The person I kept nodding my head to wasn't only, or even mostly Jolene, it was Nicole Number four. My favorite thing about the podcast is that it is such a great reminder of true female friendships and how powerful they are when they're based in love of another human being and not all the stuff we pile on top of them.
Jolene: Oh, amen. That is so great. Now I will say Susie is a fantastic writer. She's not a writer, she's an optometrist. I mean, she's a doctor. She,
Nicole: but she's an artist. The way she writes, I mean, this is just an excerpt of a very long post and I I was totally floored.
it, I was moved and I was [00:07:00] scared, like all the things,
Jolene: Yeah,
Nicole: because I thought, oh wow, this is her best friend and she was ready to not like me, and I. We've said, I said this in another episode, like, I'm such a sensitiva that's like my, my worst nightmare. But that's, you know, that's life.
You don't, no one ever, not everyone's gonna like you or
Jolene: yeah, yeah.
Nicole: all that. But, um, so,
Jolene: cool.
Nicole: uh, and the other part of the homework was that, and we are very open to this. if you guys have any questions or topics you want us to discuss, uh, right now you can DM us at, we've got to talk on Instagram or you can, uh, give a comment on our YouTube page, which is also, we've got to talk.
So that's, we did our homework
Jolene: Okay.
Nicole: what's our topic today? Do you wanna tell everybody what our topic
Jolene: So from the feedback that we've received, I think one of the [00:08:00] things, one of the common topics that people would like. An answer to, and I'm gonna say mostly your people, meaning Democrats. I wanna know why the hell I voted for Trump.
I've said before, I was not a a MAGA person. I was not a Trumper, I was, uh, Nikki Haley, but she was really the candidate that I liked the most. and she hung in there as as long as she could so, but it came down to he was the Republican nominee. the other thing that I, and I, again, I've said this before, I would not call him a solid person, if I wanted to be friends with somebody, I, it would be difficult for me to be, to be a personal friend of his, I just don't, I don't like the things that he says.
I don't like his demeanor. like, I, I think, I feel like I needed to start with, with all of that because I, I, I think that a lot of Democrats are going, he's just such a horrible [00:09:00] person that how could you vote for him? And so my answer is.
It came down to two people. It came down to, to Trump or Kamala. And, and you can say that there were others, but you know, it came down to, to two people because a, a vote for any of those other people was really a waste was a wasted vote, right? I mean, that, that wasn't gonna do anything.
I feel like we all have those issues that are the most important things to us. And I will say in 2016, the most important thing for me was whoever was going to win the 2016 election was gonna have at least two.
Supreme Court nominees, we thought at the time, that they would get on the bench. And so for me, that was a deciding factor for, for me to, to vote for Trump. I wanted those Supreme Court, um, nominees to be somebody that a Republican nominated, not a Democrat. this time around, the biggest issue for me was border security.
[00:10:00] there were so many, ramifications of having an open border or having, not having a secure border, that affected our economy, that that affected our, our personal safety, our national security, I think from that perspective, that was the single most important issue for me.
I'm sure there are people that vote because they're pro-choice and they want a candidate who believes, I mean, maybe that's the most important thing to them. Or when Obama was, was running, it was, you know, universal healthcare or you know, a, an Obamacare system. So I understand that there are people that take, you know, what are the most important issues to you and you're gonna vote for the candidate that, that most closely identifies or you feel will move the needle on those issues.
So for me it was, it was border security. Kamala she was the absolute worst person, in terms of border [00:11:00] security because she was the border czar and didn't do anything. And, and I know that we've talked about that. that would be the best reason I could give that I, that I voted for Trump.
Now I also align more with the Republican party in terms of, you know, limited government and a free market economy and, so I'm gonna most likely vote for that Republican candidate if those issues are in, in line with what my, what my values are,
Nicole: there's a lot there. looking at the questions that, 'cause I went through texts and emails and. To see what people were most concerned about. And so that's an interesting take. I'm glad you shared about the Supreme Court justices because, a lot of these questions are variations on a theme.
how do you slice and dice having three daughters and voting for someone who treats women [00:12:00] the way he does? how do you make peace with the people who are suffering from the policies? And this came up a lot. It's the same thing when you say that you are not a racist, a homophobe, a sexist, but you're voting for someone who has displays this behavior.
How do you reconcile this? Okay. Uh, what are the values that you do align with and do they weigh out what you don't agree with? Uh, there's a lot of concern about, you know, how he treats women, how do you look past the real character flaws and still vote for him. when you said that you wouldn't vote for Kamala because it was going to be the same. Can you give examples of what you didn't like and what policies in the Republican party do you like?
so that's a lot that I just threw out at you, but there was the thought I had at the very end when you said, I align with the Republican [00:13:00] party. If these were, if these were normal times, I'd be like, well, okay. Yeah. Like if this was George W. Bush, I'd say absolutely. But these guys that are in right now, amount of spending that they, that he did in his first term, and now, you know, you don't, you want a small government, but, but with Doge it's, it's all government all the time.
So to me that sounds like a conflict, like you're. I hear what you like and what you want, what's happening now doesn't seem very Republican. And I also know that you're wildly pro woman and you love your daughters and empower them. And was it about like holding your nose because you wanted the judges in?
'cause when the pussy grabbing video came out,
I'd just gone to see you. And I was like, ah, there's no way she's gonna vote for him now. But you did. And I'd never, we've never talked about, [00:14:00] I wanted conservative judges
Jolene: all right, so let's go back. So the very first one was, I've got three daughters. And how could I vote for somebody in the whole, that whole Billy Bush? Is it? Billy Bush? Interview.
Nicole: yeah.
just what he is been accused of. Like the, you know, he's a you we know.
Jolene: Yeah. and I think this really goes back to the Bill Clinton era. Like we used to think that the president of the United States, , should be someone that we would want to look up to our kids.
That we could, we could tell our kids you two could be president of the United States one day. Look, because it was such an honorable position, bill Clinton taught us that, that, that we need to change our frame of thinking because both things could be true. At the same time, he could be a good president, but also be a philander, right?
I mean, he could have these tris with an intern in the Oval Office, [00:15:00] but he still got reelected, right? we are a very forgiving nation. And so I think at that point. Everything changed. I would even say it goes back to MIT, Romney, you know, here we had Mitt Romney, who is this really, you know, stellar family man, even though he was LDS, you know, and people, you know, really criticized.
Oh gosh, maybe it's a cult, but so here we had this really great upstanding person and people are like, nah, we don't want him either. So, I mean, again, I just, I don't think that that posi, that the president of the United States in that position anymore is now about what can you do for us? How you are gonna run our country.
You're not gonna babysit our kids. what are the things that you are going to do To make the United States a better place for me and the things that matter to me. So me as a sm small business owner, I'm looking at those things that, um, how does that make me more successful?
Because I think the [00:16:00] one thing that Republicans really focus on is that the government is not the answer. We don't need a president or congress or government agencies to make us a better country. We, the American people, make our country better. And so I don't care at this point what he does.
If he cheats on Melania, if, uh, maybe he's too old, I don't know. But at, at this point, I don't care about his infidelities or, or what he's done in his past with regard to women. , that does not matter to me anymore. Does that answer that question?
Nicole: Yeah, I mean it's, it's fascinating to me because we, as liberals, we are big, uh, pearl clutches. do you know what I mean by like, we're like self-righteous and, me included, I thought that that was [00:17:00] absolutely a deal breaker for most women He's so gross. That's a, I'm not articulate. He's just gross. And, um, the Bill Clinton thing, you had mentioned it to me privately the other day and I was sort of shocked, but also like, huh, I never thought of that. And somehow I remember being, was it Bill Starr was his last name, he was a prosecutor for that case. His name was Starr. I don't remember his first name. And I
Jolene: think he's at Baylor University.
Nicole: Oh really? Huh?
So I remember, hearing about the trials and feeling at the time, why are they doing this to him, to Bill Clinton and you know, feeling indignant then I did think about Monica. I was in a cafe years and years ago, and she was there by [00:18:00] herself and I felt just, I just felt so sad for her. I mean, she was a kid.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: She was a kid, she was totally taken advantage of. She fell in love with him, quote unquote. It's all that power stuff and she idolized him.
I mean, and he paid attention to her and.
Jolene: Could you imagine the most powerful man in the world paying
attention to you?
Nicole: And, and like, unlike Trump, bill Clinton supposedly had a lot, maybe, well maybe Trump too, but Bill Clinton, I remember that they would say, he had such magnetism that you, he looked at you and there was, and there was no one else in the room. and that's really powerful. And it didn't occur to me that here I was as a Democrat saying, why just leave him alone.
Let him be a president. And that's basically kind of what you're saying to me now, where it was, to me, it was so obscene that Billy Bush thing was so obscene. just how he [00:19:00] thinks about things, about grabbing pussy and, and here, you know, we grew up, I think about this a lot. We are the daughters of women's lib.
Like our moms in the early seventies.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: We, we were liberated and we were taught that we could do anything and we could be, I think were you
Jolene: Yeah. Yep. A
Nicole: right? So, when Trump, you know, he's just such a philander and a just no, no, doesn't seem to have any regard for anyone's body, but his own, I guess I get concerned.
I get worried that, well, I mean this is another conversation, but Roe was overturned and so I feel like as women, we are on a, uh, like a, a shaky, shaky ground. We had come so far and then you have this very sexist president. , and then I worry, oh my gosh. How are [00:20:00] your daughters, my nieces? How are they gonna walk through the world?
Are they gonna feel as empowered and as, filled with hope that we, we were, ,
and so, and so. I mean, I think they, yeah,
I mean, but there's so much, there's so much like sexist rhetoric and I think so for Democrats because he's so vile, he says so many vile things. He's just, that we're
Jolene: In the past, he doesn't say vile things about women now. Right. I mean, is that, are you referring to the things that, that the bully, the Billy Bush tapes, or are you
Nicole: to,
to Billy, to Billy Bush and his, the, the assault allegations, all the things. he's got a record of lots of things I can't speak to the last couple months I. , I'm not referring to the last couple months. There's other things that have happened in the last couple months, I get concerned.
People really look up to Trump and there seems to now be this culture of I'm speaking [00:21:00] my mind. I'm gonna say how I really feel. And therefore there, there's a lot more vocal racism. Vocal sexism. vocal, homophobia. cause I feel like he's given people permission and I,
Jolene: Okay, so then I would ask you be specific. What specifically has he said that would make you think he's a racist?
Nicole: The black jobs. Those are black jobs. You don't remember that?
Jolene: No.
Nicole: it was during this campaign and he was interviewed by a black woman, I think two black women actually. And it was the, it was the interview where it was like, Kamala, all of a sudden she's black and right. And she was talk and he is talking about black jobs, like what's a black job?
yeah. I don't know if that answers your question.
Jolene: I believe that he [00:22:00] got labeled a racist because of the immigration issue
Nicole: that's the first thing that popped in my head about the black jobs. I,
Jolene: Okay. So I think he got a lot. He, he, um, and this was probably in the first, in the 2016, that he was accused of being a racist because he was bad ombres. He said there's a lot of bad ombres
Nicole: Well, don't you remember? Maybe you don't. It's a New York thing. But when he put a ad in the New York Times for the kids, those five kids, he decided they were black kids. That they had, um, uh, strangled this girl, correct? Yes. And he, he took out an ad in the New York Times that they, they did it and they didn't do it.
They've been exonerated
Jolene: like, what year was that?
Nicole: It was in the seventies, I think.
Jolene: Oh, okay. Seventies or eighties. But listen,
so 50 years ago.
Nicole: once a racist, always a
Jolene: [00:23:00] no, I don't know. I don't agree with that. I,
Nicole: I, I, I can't believe you don't think he's a racist.
Jolene: I am saying, uh, maybe, and maybe he was, and, and I don't know, maybe he is a racist, so the, I think the question was how do I, how can I vote for someone if I claim that I'm not a racist?
How can I vote for someone that if he was, if he was overtly like the whole, Virginia,
Nicole: Oh my God. That thing, there's good people on both sides.
Jolene: on both sides, wait, if, if, if you, oh my gosh, I wish I could play the entire, if you looked at that entire sound bite, that was one of those sound bites that I get so ticked off at the mainstream media because they.
Put that soundbite together to make it sound like he was saying there were good people on both sides. And if you look at the totality of what he was talking about, he did. That is not what he said. I will absolutely get that for you and play that for you. Not right here. Because that was one of those things that it was, try, [00:24:00] they, it was a gotcha moment that was absolutely not in the context of what he said
and maybe he was a racist, but if he was, if he was overtly.
Racist and we all knew it and he said things, absolutely. You're right. That would, that would be a game changer for me. I couldn't, I couldn't do it. because that tells you who he is. And that says a lot about a person. And so Absolutely.
Nicole: what I'm gathering is that the Supreme Court appointments were way more important than his womanizing behavior
Jolene: Uh, again, if he was a womanizer, that's his, and again, I remember this was the thing with Clinton, that's his own personal thing. That's a, that's a personal thing. That's not the way he's run in the country. And if you talk about the way that he treats women now, he was the first person to have a female, chief of staff.
Nicole: Susie
Jolene: Susie Wiles. and you look at [00:25:00] his, you know, his attorney general as female, his, I mean, you look at all the women on his, on, in his cabinet and you think that he doesn't treat women well in a professional setting. So maybe he is a womanizer. I don't know. And again, if he's doing that on his personal time and it, and he's not sleeping with a spy, then.
Nicole: He's not sleeping with a
spy. it. If he's sleeping with a spy, you're right. That's really gonna be a bad thing for us.
Wait, but Jolene okay. I to, to go away from the sexist part for a second. he's spent a lot of money and this whole Doge thing is full on government control. How do you feel about that? 'cause that seems antithetical to what you actually believe as a
Republican. is a great word,
Antithetical.
Jolene: antithetical.
Nicole: Yeah, it feels good in, it feels good in your mouth too.
Jolene: antithetical.
I know, I think the Doge is [00:26:00] cutting the fat I sent you that thing on Instagram, but I don't think it came, it was from the free press
Nicole: it was just a picture of a bag of money.
Jolene: oh, I'm sorry. You had to click on the article.
Nicole: but you understand my question, right? Like this is a lot of government control.
Jolene: It's a lot of government. Well, I, I think it's a lot of getting rid of the government, all the, of the extra government stuff again, our tax dollars are going to support God. This one was, was the billions of dollars that were under green energy, initiatives that Biden had signed, uh, a week or two before he left office and funneled, and I can't remember what the number was, $2 billion or something, and, and it, and it listed.
Who all the people were, and it was all of the people in the, his cronies and, and all that. And you're just going again, that freaking Washington is so full [00:27:00] of, of people with their hand, hands out and Oh, so Stacey Abrams, you are the, the new, um, director of this, this green energy fund, and she was making like $1.5 million a year in that position.
And you're going, okay, so that's where our tax dollars are going. Thank you Stacey Abrams. Under the guise of green energy initiatives.
Nicole: I will click on it and I think we should put this article in the show notes so that other people can see it. Right.
Jolene: Yeah. Yep. Great idea. So, uh, so going back to your point about Doge, if Doge is uncovering stuff like this, because I'm sure this is, you know, one of a million, and on both sides, I will say this. I don't think just because Biden did this as he was leaving office, I'm sure every president has done it as they're leaving office and they're, and they're setting up their cronies for fat checks that the government pays them under the guise of, you know, some [00:28:00] bureaucracy.
but I think that's the purpose of Doge and I'm all for it
now. Do I think it's handled correctly? No, I don't. I, I, you know, just going in and massively firing people.
Nicole: yeah.
'cause that's the thing, Joe, and we have an Elon Musk episode that we've talked more about this, but I'm not against trimming the fat either at all. It's just the way it's being done. And it's ending up being like so unprofessional in a way. 'cause they're like slashing people and they're like, oh fuck.
we need you again 'cause we don't know how to do this thing. that's a problem because maybe you'd actually get liberals. To come to this, that side or to, if it was done, uh, from a much more, uh, measured, considerate, compassionate, that's a thing that, that liberals are very upset about these people, their livelihoods and then things like we talked about in the other episode about, [00:29:00] well, veterans are getting hit hard and then, national parks and not only like rangers.
so Utah has I think most of the national parks in this country and I mean this summer's gonna be a total mess. There are articles about that. There are long lines and dirty bathrooms and like, it's gonna be, it's, it's, it's a mess. It's, these are, one of these are like gems.
Gems in,
Jolene: Yeah, I
Nicole: uh, in our country. And that's the kind of stuff that if they just slow down, honestly, if they slow down and did some shit, well
Jolene: you'd be for it.
Nicole: of course. Why not?
Jolene: Okay. Did you watch the um, state of, well, it's not a
Nicole: Oh my
the address to the Congress,
I saw the last five minutes of the rebuttal of Alyssa Slotnik. thank God for tangle. 'cause I, I read them and saw their, their [00:30:00] coverage on Instagram it was a very long speech I heard.
Nicole: And yeah, like the longest of its kind actually.
And they showed, long clips on tangle.
They don't cut like you're suggesting with the Charlottesville, uh, clip. Um, but there's this one. I don't know if you heard about this. It fucking got me the,
Jolene: Sorry, Linda.
Nicole: sorry, Linda, the manipulation of my heartstrings. There was a moment, uh, where there was this little boy and, and he, he had brain cancer. So you, did you see the clip?
Jolene: yes. No, I watched the, I watched the whole thing It killed me. And then he reached out for the FBI guy who was so surprised and they had this
Nicole: big hug and I'm just crying. Like, really?
Jolene: And then when they announced the, the guy that was sitting in front of him, the senior in high school,
Nicole: Oh, I didn't, that's the only part I saw. I didn't,
Jolene: Okay, so this is great. Okay, so DJ is [00:31:00] the, is the kid with the brain cancer that he, that Trump made part of the secret service now. And, um, and he was so excited and his dad was so proud and his dad's holding them up and everything.
It was so fantastic. Yes. And so then a little bit later in the speech, then he announces, Trump announces that, um, a senior in high school whose father was, , I don't think he was a firefighter. I, I feel like his dad was a policeman maybe in LA and was killed a couple years ago. In the line of duty. And, um, he had applied for West Point.
And so Trump had announced that, um, he just got in. And so, and the kid didn't know it like he was announcing right then. I mean, talk about goosebumps. And so everybody's clapping and so excited. DJ comes from down and gives him a high five and it's just like, oh my God, that was so great. It was so great.
It, it was fantastic. And I'm like, and so I texted in our group chat and in our family group chat and I said, I just wanna see coverage of DJ for now [00:32:00] forever, because I just think he, he's like the poster child for everything that's right in the world right now. Except the damn Democrats couldn't stand up and clap for him.
Why they sat there because they didn't, they weren't gonna give him the satisfaction. And even for dj, they couldn't clap for dj. that broke my heart. Like we're so divided right now that as a Democrat, you couldn't witness that moment and go, huh, this transcends the crap that's going on in our nation right now.
That's awesome.
Nicole: I, I would agree with you. I think we need to think bigger and act bigger. Than we are. You can still protest, you can still, , disagree. You can still fight the policies. And , we can have some respect and manners and kindness
that, that, [00:33:00] I mean, but here's the thing, like it is manipulative, it was, they used dj they do this on both sides.
I'm, I'm not, they do this on both sides. It's super theatrical, like, you know, and, and I find it nauseating, but that little kid just broke my heart in the happy way. , and how could you not feel for this little boy who gets to be a secret agent or a, a secret agent?
A se a not not a secret agent. A secret agent,
Jolene: secret agent,
Nicole: no. But his little face and, yeah. I obviously didn't see it live, but I saw clips after it that I saw the guy with his cane and Al Green and the people sat there and I thought, you know what? We're not gonna get anywhere
if this is how everyone's gonna behave, we're not gonna get anywhere because the Republicans, you know, can be guilty of, of being bullish and and jerks.
But, but what the Democrats are doing is not helping [00:34:00] either,
Jolene: Okay. So as you as a Democrat, would that. Affect your voting in the midterms?
Nicole: well, that was one moment,
Jolene: Well, I, I, I right at the beginning of this term. like the, the whole, and I know this is a whole nother podcast about, um, transgender boys and women's sports. It didn't get a single Democrat, even though 70, well, depending on what poll you look at, between 70 and 80% of Americans agree that biological boys should not be competing in women's sports.
70 to 80% across the board, Democrats, Republicans, yet in the bill
Nicole: what pole? What pole is that? Just
Jolene: I, well, there, there's a couple of polls that are out. That's why I say it's between 70 and 80, because I think there was a Reuters poll that showed 70, and then I think it was a CBS poll. Maybe that showed 80. But not a single Democrat voted for the bill that would [00:35:00] prohibit biological boys from competing in women's sports in, And so I think, okay. Are the Democrats, are they listening? How do you feel about that?
Nicole: You wanna talk about transgender right now?
Jolene: No, I don't. I, no, I, my question really is how do you feel about the Democrat's reaction?
You've already talked about that during the speech, but, but the fact that maybe they're not in line with the rest of America.
Nicole: Well, we've talked about this before. I don't think they are in line. I, we, I feel like we need a whole revamping of the Democratic party. Just like I feel like we need a revamping of the Republican party. So it's not Trumpian. I think we have to actually stand up for what we believe in and demand action from our politicians.
Because right now we're just fighting with each other. It when, when, when Biden was in power, the Republicans said no. When [00:36:00] Trump's in power, the, the Democrats say no. there is no coming together. There is no, well, let me think about this. I don't think many people at the moment are doing what you and I are doing where we're actually Right.
Right. So, so do I think, and by, do I think behind closed doors, maybe I think they're trying to figure it out because otherwise Democrats will never be in power again,
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: period. I don't think, Yeah. I mean, it is theatrical. It's theatrical.
That's what these things are, these, these states of unions, they're, it's all theater. Um, and how do I feel about it? I am disappointed. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that, like I didn't see it, but I'm disappointed that, that not one person could have clapped for that little boy. He has nothing to do with being a Republican or being a Democrat, or being a liberal or being conservative.
The little boy has brain cancer, end of [00:37:00] story,
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: which is gonna make me cry again.
we've gotten so, um, small. We're so small and, and the o and the only thing, only people it's hurting is ourselves. I.
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: Right. Um, I do have another question, but you might have some questions for me. Uh, somebody, uh, someone asked, What do you think about Trump calling Zelinsky a dictator and saying that he started the war?
Jolene: I, I, because I know this is gonna be, this will be a whole nother episode. For us. And so I've started to dive into, this whole Ukraine, Russia affair. And this stems back to Jimmy Carter. This goes, this goes back to the Carter days, and I, I'm not fully prepared to talk about it yet, and so I'll just give you a knee jerk reaction.
I used to think, well, hell yes, we'd need to help Ukraine [00:38:00] fight Russia. It's Russia, right? I mean, that's, nobody wants Russia to win. However, more and more that I read about what escalated to this war and all the things that have happened and all the jockeying for position, the, the NATO conversations.
Um, and all that, I'm, I'm starting to change my mind and I'm trying to look at this through a different lens, and I think that you are, will be shocked or you, and I think other Democrats will be shocked to know that this, this maybe even goes back to wag the dog. , this whole thing is about, um, getting money for the US through defense spending.
If we gave enough money to Ukraine that they would turn around and this was under Biden, that they would turn around and, and buy the weapons and, and all of that back from us. So it was really [00:39:00] kind of a, we'll give you the money, but you gotta buy your weapons and your machinery and, and all that from us.
that I think there are then defense. companies that are wanting this war to go on, because that means more revenue. It, I'm getting real deep into this thing now and I'm not ready to talk about it, but I think there's a lot there. There are people that want to continue this war for monetary purposes
Nicole: who do you think started the war two year, three years ago?
Jolene: I I think the bigger question is what prompted the war? And it was when we ended the Cold War, so I can't even say it was Carter. It was probably Reagan. When we ended the Cold War with Reagan, we said to Gorbachev at that time that we would not have any NATO countries encroaching upon, bordering Russia that is like, um, well, the Bay of Pigs, like it was, [00:40:00] we didn't want missiles in Cuba pointing to us because we wouldn't have time to defend ourselves.
Right. Russia was saying the same thing. We'll end the Cold War with Gorbachev and Reagan. We'll end the Cold War, but you can't have nato. You guys can't, United States can't have missiles pointed towards us. In, in a country that is bordering us. So no nato, which which would be nato, right? Because if, if the, if a NATO country goes to war where all the NATO countries are, are going to support it.
So this really stemmed from that. Well, Over the years, there continued to be movement towards getting, um, hungry. And, uh, again, I'm not so well versed on this that I, that I can, that I can speak intelligently on it. But, so what happened was Ukraine should have never, and Zelensky, as I'm, as I'm learning more about him, the, the person that was in power in front of him, [00:41:00] we as Americans, got rid of him and we put Zelinsky into place and it, it was, it was a thing.
So to answer your question, Russia. Did start the war, but, I think they were forced to, I think, Ukraine forced their hand and I think that he had, Ukraine had a lot of backing to do that, , and to Trump's point, it should have never happened.
Nicole: back in 2014, they invaded Crimea.
Jolene: Right. Uh, and, and again, because they didn't want bordering states being a nato, they were going to be a NATO country, and Russia said, Nope, you made this app, you made this promise to us that, that you weren't going to pursue this. And so no, you can't do that again. It would be like putting missiles in Mexico or Canada and having those countries having, you know, Russia have missiles pointing to us.
No, hell no. We're not gonna let that happen.
Nicole: I mean, one of the things Jolene, [00:42:00] like Gorbachev is not Putin,
Jolene: Oh,
Nicole: right? That like,
Jolene: And he and Reagan had a
Nicole: good, good old Gorby. He like, he was ready to, to make some peace. And
Putin is a whole other situation. And weirdly, like I, uh, I went to. Moscow. I'd never been out of the country.
And then I went to Moscow. I had a boyfriend that was working over there , and wildly he told me later that he was at some conference of some kind and he was the American. And then there were two Russian guys that he was working with. And one guy spoke Russian and English and the other one spoke German and Russian.
And he, my boyfriend, spoke English and German so he could speak to them. And one of the guys, they were at this conference and his partner [00:43:00] says, you see that guy? And it was Putin. This is back in 1990, uh, three. He was like, please stay away from him. He is really bad news.
Jolene: news. Yep. Yeah, because he was KGB, right? I mean, we all Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Uhhuh Uhhuh. So that's like, yeah. Okay. Uh, do you have questions for me? Do the conservative people
Nicole: come They all loved you.
Well, I, I'm, I'm, I'm to, I'm, I'm totally, I'm totally to flattered. I'm now, honestly, Linda, you're really concerning me about my mouth, my dirty, dirty mouth and I'm, I'm sorry. Ms. Linda,
I'm sorry, Ms. Linda. Um, I will try to not swear, but I still will swear like all the time, but I'll
try. That's all I can do. It's, it's, it's who
I am.
Jolene: Uh, I have some really good, uh, would you rathers
Nicole: You do.
Jolene: Uh, well, yes, I have, I have three that I've thought about. So, [00:44:00] um,
but I'm only gonna give you one. I know I'm only gonna give you one.
Nicole: Okay. So do you wanna start or do you want me to start? Why
don't you start. Ah,
Jolene: Okay. I'll start. Okay. Alright.
Nicole: I'm ready.
Jolene: Would you rather walk barefoot around New York City for two days or not brush your teeth for a week? Think, think about that.
Nicole: I mean, here's the thing. I'm a barefoot girl. I'm a barefoot girl like we are no shoe houses. this is now making me think differently. We're no shoe, we're no shoe houses, because New York City is so fucking disgusting.
Jolene: Sorry, Linda.
Nicole: Sorry, Linda. Uh, but brushing your teeth, I mean, for a week, a week would be like, they'd get furry.
I think
Jolene: Yeah. Yeah.
So no shoes in New York for two days.
Nicole: I'd, I'd [00:45:00] I, I'd walk carefully and I'd walk where? Listen. So we live in this doorman building and we have two entrances. You have the fancy front entrance, and then you have the side entrance. So we live on Wall Street, like we literally are our building faces across from the stock exchange.
It's the strangest,
coolest, weirdest address. Okay. So on Wall Street is where the fancy, um, entrance is, but on the side street, it's called Exchange Place, but we like to call it Extra Ex Oh shoot. Excrement Alley. Excrement Alley. Because every fucking dog comes out. Sorry, Linda. Every fucking dog. It smells so bad.
Like, like pee urine and poop. I mean, it's disgusting. Excrement alley. So I would make sure in my two days, my two days of wandering New York City, that I would only go [00:46:00] out the fancy front door.
Jolene: Fancy front door.
Nicole: No, no excrement alley
for me. and, and, and my feet. And my
feet. Okay. Gross. All right,
Jolene: Okay, so wait, so you chose barefoot
Nicole: I chose barefoot.
Yes.
Going out the front door.
Jolene: Okay. Fancy front door.
Nicole: here we go. Would you rather have everyone, you know, be able to read your thoughts or for everyone you know, to have access to, to your internet history?
Jolene: Oh, um, totally. Internet
Nicole: Well, 'cause I'm also like, I bet you're pretty tame in your internet. Internet history. You never know.
Jolene: I don't know.
Nicole: Mm-hmm.
Jolene: Uh, no. Do you remember, do you remember the guy who had Tourettes at Iowa? I'm sorry. Why? That's not funny.
Nicole: First of all, there was only one person with Tourettes and I
Jolene: [00:47:00] Like everyone knew him. He was in the marching band and he played the tuba.
And he drove a Volkswagen,
Nicole: he had Tourettes and played the tuba.
Jolene: Yep, yep.
Nicole: Did he have Tourettes while he played the tuba?
Jolene: I mean, he could play the tuba without tours, I guess. I don't know. Okay. so I'm coming out and if you'll recall, and when I was in college, I was a bigger girl. I was a little, I was a little chub chub.
Nicole: isn't it crazy? I don't remember you big, I don't ever think of you in that way and that that's what you think.
Jolene: yeah. Okay. Well anyway, I was, I was a little Chub, Chub and I was coming out the Great American ice cream. Wait, great, great Midwestern ice cream company. Remember that downtown?
Nicole: Do I do.
Jolene: I came out one afternoon for a snack and I had like a double decker waffle cone, this big old big ass ice cream cone.
And I'm coming out of, and I [00:48:00] probably just ate at Hardee's and had like a fish sandwich and french fries. I mean, this was the kind of stuff
Nicole: Okay. Hardee's, you have to explain what Hardee's is. 'cause a lot of
Jolene: is a fast food.
Nicole: is it Iowa? Is it just Iowa
Jolene: Um, or Mid or Midwest? Oh, do
Midwest.
Yeah. We have them in Missouri. Okay. So like crappy fast food.
And, um,
Nicole: Sorry. Hardee's.
Jolene: I, sorry, Hardee's, um, okay. So I'm coming out of great Midwestern ice cream with my big old ice cream cone. And he pulls up right in front of me and bless his heart, it ha I mean, what a horrible disease he is in his car and I can, I can see him 'cause he is yelling, he's yelling, fat pig, fat pig, fat pig, fat pig.
And I'm like, oh my gosh. And I'm thinking, yeah, okay, I am and I'm eating an ice cream cone and I had to [00:49:00] keep walking. It was a horrible, horrible scene. And so I keep thinking about that, thinking if I had Tourette's. I would say the most awful vial things that come into my head if they, if I had to say them out loud.
So the answer to your question is I would absolutely look at my history all day long. 'cause you do not wanna know what's in my head. Look at your face.
Yeah.
Nicole: I, that's a ho. I'm so sorry.
Jolene: I, I mean, it's funny.
Nicole: It's it, it was funny
But it must have
Jolene: What a horrible thing for him.
Nicole: Wow.
Jolene: Wow. So we're ending on that note.
Nicole: we are ending on that note. I can't believe you are conservative friends. Don't have one question. Come on,
Jolene: no, I'll tell you the one comment I did
Nicole: Other than that, I [00:50:00] swear too much.
Jolene: that you swore too much. But that's, um, no, I'll tell you the one thing that, um, that I did hear was that it was an interesting thing that you related, , the September 11th, um, the Trump boat rally and January 6th, that you, you remember those events because they were tied to an emotional event in your life and how horrible that must be, that, that you are able to listen to take those events.
And that it's an emotional thing for you because it's tied to something else that happened, you know, obviously September 11th, and then the, and then your, um, your stepmom saying goodbye.
Nicole: that just reminds me like every person that has heard episode three, [00:51:00] no one has ever heard of Patriot Day.
Jolene: Isn't that funny? So has, even Susie said that, she goes, I didn't know it was called Patriot
Nicole: None of it's, it's in the
And I, and I got a comment on, on one of our YouTube pages, they're like, what's, what's Patriot Day? I live in New York. I'm like, I live in New York too. Isn't that wild?
Jolene: is crazy.
Nicole: So, but that to me just, just sort of encapsulates kind of everything that's, that's wrong, that's going on, that we are getting these different messages and, and making and standing in our positions.
Jolene: Yep. Yeah.
Nicole: And half the time I'm angry about something.
You have no idea what I'm talking about. And you're angry about something and I don't know what you're talking about.
Jolene: Yeah,
Nicole: So
Jolene: is true. We've you go. We have work to do. All right, doll. Uh, Thank you friend, and thank you to all of thank you to all the comments. I hope I answered them.
Nicole: [00:52:00] I think everybody's gonna have their own experience, and I commend you for being, uh, open enough and courageous enough to answer them in the best way you can. That's all you can do.
Jolene: thank you.
Nicole: And it's important. Like people are asking you specific questions, and this is your opinion and your experience, your one person, your one window into, uh, this divisive
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: landscape that we're in, that we're, that you and I are trying to, you know,
mend it, maybe.
Jolene: yes, and I would love to hear, I'd love to hear other conservatives. Please comment and give us your, I'd love to hear what your answers are to
these that would be great. again, DM us at, we've got to talk on Instagram or you can make a comment on the YouTube page of, we Got, we've got to Talk and [00:53:00] we're happy to, um, talk about the stuff on the air and, and write you back and all the good things, and just create the conversation so that it's not just about me and Jolene having this conversation, but it's about all of us creating a community together, uh, that's safe and, and kind and thoughtful
And compassionate.
Nicole: and compassionate.
Jolene: It's good.
Nicole: Good stuff.
Jolene: Thanks everybody.
Nicole: Thank you guys. Uh, talk to you later, Joe. Okay. Bye.
Jolene: Bye.
