Disruption in DC: Elon Musk and The DOGE
It's not every day you hear about a tech mogul transitioning to a pivotal role in government, yet here we are. When Donald Trump appointed Elon Musk as the head of the Department Of Government Efficiency, it sent shockwaves through every corner of Washington D.C. It's a bold move that has us curious, frustrated, and admittedly a bit nervous about what lies ahead.
So what does this truly mean in the governmental landscape? Only time will tell, but it’s certainly causing quite a stir among Republicans and Democrats.
A Disruptor at the Helm
At a time when our national debt has soared to a staggering $36 trillion, it's clear something's gotta give. But is Elon Musk the disruptor we need? I've been pondering over this with Jolene, and we've found ourselves at an intriguing crossroads.
You see, the traditional system of government, with its intricate web of policies and protocols, doesn't quite align with the revolutionary pace that Musk represents. As the architect behind multiple tech companies, he's used to breaking molds, not following them. This fresh approach is exactly why some are optimistic about his new role. I’m less enthusiastic about Elon and his “tech bros” treating the US government like another tech startup and using bullying tactics to get what they want.
The Reality Check
While brilliant in coding and disrupting markets, these tech bros are fish out of water in the complex ecosystem of government. They are used to the 'move fast and break things' mentality of startups, and yet now find themselves wielding unprecedented power in the DOGE.
Unlike typical fresh-faced government recruits who learn the ropes from the bottom up, these tech bros have been catapulted into positions of significant influence without the traditional understanding of public sector nuance. Sure, they're bringing fresh perspectives, but when you're dealing with federal policies rather than feature updates, that 'disrupt first, ask questions later' approach might not be the best playbook.
Gains and Pains of Improvement
There's no denying the shake-up in a government that feels stagnant to many. The cuts in funding initiated by Musk have been controversial, yet they're also part of an essential conversation about priorities in governmental spending. Jolene, with her list of concerns and commendations, frequently reminds me how such radical changes could either set us on a path to greatness or chaos. There's potential for efficiency, innovation, and perhaps a bit of chaos as we see how this all plays out.
As the dust begins to settle, both the support and criticism around Musk’s influence are palpable. From what we're hearing on both ends of the political spectrum, everyone seems to be adopting a cautious optimism—or skepticism. Will the DOGE write a new chapter in the smart and efficient handling of our resources, or are we looking at a costly experiment?
Ultimately, whether you view this as a weird detour or a necessary intervention, one thing is clear: Elon Musk has galvanized a government ready for an upgrade. Join the conversation, wherever it may lead, because this is undoubtedly a moment that will make waves in history books yet to be written.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Wired article: https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-lieutenant-gsa-ai-agency/?ref=404media.co
US Debt Clock: https://www.usdebtclock.org/
LINKS:
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Nicole: [00:00:00] We're talking about Mr. Elon Musk, the co-president of the United
Jolene: Oh God, don't call him
Nicole: that.
we didn't vote for.
We
Jolene: We don't, uh, we don't vote for any of the president's advisors.
Nicole: is true. That's absolutely true. I will a hundred percent agree with you on that.
every minute it changes at the Doge or with Elon
and his, his 19-year-old minions, uh, from the tech world.
Shout out to 4 0 4 Media, the independent, uh, tech media, uh, news organization that we, I think we mentioned a couple episodes ago about good resources. I, they did a really good article and podcast on Elon and, did like a five minute intro introduction to this particular episode.
'cause they said, we don't want to talk about politics,
but we have to talk about politics because this administration has become the most tech unified [00:01:00] administration, as you know, in the history of administrations, I guess.
they had some leaked conversations, they said that there were so many leaks in in the first two weeks. Uh. Which included your, your girl, Susie Wiles saying that they couldn't control Musk and that it came out, you know, as we heard that Trump was like, listen, I'm the president. He didn't say it this way, but to something like this, like, he, everything has to be run by me. If it's not, you know, we'll shut it down. But that, that the leaks have been, well, uh, he's not really paying attention. That trump's not paying attention. It doesn't really matter to him. I mean, I, that, that's, I'm putting words in the mouth, but like I learned about muzzle velocity too this week.
Jolene: I have
Nicole: Muzzle velocity I heard it, Steve Bannon. It was an interview with Steve Bannon
Jolene: you [00:02:00] listened to an interview with Steve Bannon.
Nicole: I did,
Jolene: My god, I don't even know who you are anymore,
Nicole: and he
Jolene: but I love you more.
Nicole: he was talking about the strategy that this is an intentional strategy to put, you know, everyone
off their game. I, we talked about, um, flooding the zone
and then this other term is called muzzle velocity, that you just throw everything like as much spaghetti at the wall as possible and that the media, 'cause he's very insulting of the media saying that they're all dumb and lazy.
Those are his words, not
Jolene: Steve Bannon
Nicole: Steve B Steve Bannon did. in this particular interview, which I'm, he's May probably said it more than once, and that, you know, they can't focus on anything more than one thing. and then if we are talking about, if we're going off of the other conversations we had about media. Hopefully there's these new media organizations that are really trying to bring integrity back and not be about entertainment. [00:03:00] But if it is, let's say there's this entertainment focus and some of, or all of these, mainstream news agencies that they're just like following the red do dot and they can't. remember what you said to me in the last episode about you think that liberals are just like thinking, Ooh, that Trump is like, Ooh,
how else can we, how else can we fuck you that? And that's how I'm thinking too. I mean,
Jolene: Oh my gosh.
Nicole: I'm like, they're like, Hey, like they're sitting in the background going, look at these fools, everybody's freaking out.
And, and while we're all trying to follow the thousand things they're getting shit done I'm gonna let you speak. I promise this morning, on the news that the judge said you have to freeze access to the treasury. Well, they've
already had, I think it started last Saturday.
They've already had seven days. They've already had access. And I think that's also in the research I've done for this particular topic that Musk and Trump, they are [00:04:00] litigious and they, they work the law, the legal system, and they know that the legal system can be very slow. So they get away with whatever they can get away with until it shut down by the courts.
Jolene: Okay. Oh my God, that is a lot. I, I like, where do I start?
Nicole: know. Sorry. Just like I, I just muzzle velocity, you,
Jolene: See, and now I can't even respond because there was something I was
Nicole: me and Steve Bannon are like this
Jolene: My God, he's been such a good teacher for you and I love that.
Nicole: You know,
Jolene: Oh my gosh. Okay. Wait, isn't that one of the great things that I think the, the White House spokesperson, your sweet little 27-year-old, has done is, that they're allowing a seat to not just be the traditional mainstream media that now you can apply.
They're, you know, they're taking people who are influencers or bloggers or whatever to actually have a seat at the table as well, to be [00:05:00] able to ask questions that are, outside of the mainstream. Do you know about this?
Nicole: I don't.
Jolene: it was something that she introduced, um, the very first day that she was in there and there was an application,
the White House spokesperson,
um, the me, uh, the um, C Communications direct, no, she's not the communications director.
She's the
Nicole: Bear with us. Everyone.
Jolene: God. She's the White House
Nicole: She speaks, she, she speaks for the White House, but she's not the speaker of the house.
Jolene: My God. We haven't
Nicole: you guys, I know if you guys are still with us, God, They call it the White House Press Secretary.
Jolene: Press secretary, God and what's her name?
Nicole: Her name is Caroline Levitt.
Jolene: But it's with a K, isn't it?
Nicole: It's Caroline with a K. listen. These are all very pretty women, but like I just looked up Stephanie Holmes, [00:06:00] who is the HR for DOGE
and they all look like Barbie dolls. Maybe I should edit this out, but I'm a little confused
by everyone looks like a beauty pageant
contestant.
Jolene: you know that's always kind of been a, a conservative view of liberals, like liberal women? Oh God, that liberal women, are these mean?
Nicole: What?
Jolene: Ugly. Like Yes. And that conservative women have makeup on and are pretty and, and work out and, and
Nicole: on. Timeout. All the liberals that I know, I mean,
Jolene: are beautiful. I know. I know.
Nicole: no, no, no, no. But they live in New York and they tend, they definitely work out. I can't, I mean, it's personal taste ugly or not, and I can't believe, I feel kind shitty that we're, I don't mean to talk badly about women. It was just truly like, I just looked up Caroline Levitt's, fa face.
I looked up her face, I looked up
her, her photo, and then I, this morning I looked up [00:07:00] Sarah, uh, Stephanie Holmes to understand who she is, and they could be like maybe mother, daughter, maybe sisters.
Jolene: Okay. You know what, this is gonna be a great conversation for us to have when we have the Ozempic talk.
Nicole: Oh,
girl.
Jolene: tie all of
Nicole: I, I agree. I agree.
There's a lot and, and, and, and, and beauty standards in general,
I think. I think, but that's interesting 'cause I'm guessing that you think that liberal women are like hairy arm pitted,
Jolene: Don't wear BRAS And they're, greasy hair and Yeah.
Nicole: GREASY hair.
Jolene: I'm just making that UP I mean, I don't know. Yes. Like when you go to Whole Foods, like, like those are liberal women.
Nicole: Oh my god, that's hilarious. So you don't go to Whole Foods.
Jolene: Actually, no. I do, but I can go without a bra, without makeup on, and I feel really good about myself.
Nicole: Oh
Jolene: Like, Hey girl. Hey girl. [00:08:00] I'm LIB Hey, I'm liberal too. Yeah.
Okay. So the reason we were talking about that though was this muzzle velocity, um, that they're getting shit done and man, I mean, they really
Nicole: No, but here's the thing. 'cause I've been listening to a lot of these, these. Interviews and podcasts that they are breaking shit up.
They're tearing shit down. What I'm concerned about Jolene, and I think it would be interesting to hear your view, is they don't really have a plan to what to build. They have a, they're, they're breaking things apart, but what, what's next?
Jolene: I think the system is so broken. Trump was, is not, was not a conservative, president in his first term. That he was doing tax cuts, but increasing spending and so that, you know, our national debt is 36, I think [00:09:00] now.
Gazillion. No, gazillion. It's a gazillion, yeah. so anyway, I, I think that we are in a, at a point in time where we have to go, we need to, we need to disrupt the system and we need a radical change. And my answer to that would be. Who is more of a disruptor than Elon Musk? he started Tesla, he started PayPal, he started the SpaceX.
I mean, he has done more to change, so many industries in America and, and in the world
Nicole: he is treating the US government as though it's a tech company, is where my concern is. like, he actually used a, an email, I mean this is, this is not new at this point called Fork in the Road. And it was an email that he sent to all of the, uh, federal employees. The, like re resign by February 6th [00:10:00] it was the exact same verbiage that he used for Twitter when he bought Twitter.
I agree with you. That there are a, a lot of, uh, systems in the government need a huge overhaul. but where I get very concerned is that his approach is, it's a very, and I was listening to, again, there's a wired article and then this 404 media article about, uh, the Silicon Valley tech bro culture. And it's all
about destruction what they can get away with. And there's where I get concerned, and you can call me a liberal, you can call me whatever you wanna call me, but there is v
there is.
Jolene: you my friend.
Nicole: Okay. Great. Thanks honey. There is, there is, there is seems to be zero regard for the fact that there are human beings on the other side.
Like I. You wanna revamp usaid, you wanna, you know, look [00:11:00] at how we spend. But when you're saying you gotta come home, like there are, these are families that have given their life service to the government. They are not partisan. and I mean, because they're freezing, access to the treasury, there's no regard for the law.
they're approaching it like a tech business and it's brutal and cutthroat. And that's not how this government was formed. There were so many checks and balances to make sure that human beings were held accountable. And where it gets scary to me and to, I think a lot of people, whether you're a liberal or conservative, I think there's been a lot of conservative voices. He is an AI guy. you're taking it even farther removed from human beings. I am a hundred percent with you girl, that there is, overspending,
wasteful, absolutely. and that's from every administration.
Every administration and the government is so huge. Stuff I'm [00:12:00] sure gets through the cracks.
Or there are, creepy shysters. They are liberal and Democrat. I don't care who you are.
There are people that, that are, you know, constantly getting away with shit. And, And,
yes, like you mentioned the word a couple episodes, like cutting the fat is what you called DOGE. You were very excited about it.
Jolene: Yeah.
Nicole: the people that are on his team. A lot of them are kids, fine, they have good brains, but they don't understand how government works. Security clearances. There was one of the guys on this 4 0 4 piece.
He said that when he first got outta college, he lived in DC and he worked in the government. And he said, the way when you get hired right outta college, that there are all these levels. And so yes, you might be 22 years old and work in the government, but you're like an intern getting coffee, doing, you don't have access
to the Treasury Department. So it's things like that
that, like. This is where I kind of think we could find some common ground.
Jolene: I completely agree
Nicole: I [00:13:00] don't, and I don't think, from what I'm seeing from the reaction, uh, from the left and the right is everyone's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. let's talk about it.
Jolene: yes, I completely agree with you and I and so yes, I think that's gonna be the, the, uh, as far as Elon Musk goes, that's the thing that we're gonna agree on here, we've just never seen anything like this.
if it's successful and there's a few bumps in the road, we'll look at this a year or four years from now and go, oh, what a bold move. And that's exactly what we needed to do to disrupt. I, I keep using disruptor because that's a, I think that's a term that I use in the, in the CPG industry.
Nicole: a CPG?
Jolene: consumer packaged goods.
Nicole: uh,
Jolene: So Dibble dough is trying to disrupt the candy bar market. Like the, it's not, it's, it's a, it's the small emerging brand. I mean, not, I'm not trying to give a plug here,
Nicole: you mean for your delicious frozen treats that you can get at any, uh, supermarket [00:14:00] or, uh, convenience store. Plug it, girl
Jolene: But like Poppy or Ali Pop was in the soda industry. Like you are, you are a disruptor. Like you're something that's completely, like different. Yes. And so you are, and new and emerging. And so I feel like what, what's happening here is that Elon Musk has been a disruptor in so many, you know, the car industry and the financial industry and it, the space race industry.
Nicole: I heard this, um, and this of course is incredibly liberal. But get ready. Okay. I listened to the EZ Ezra Klein show on the New York Times app,
and it's, he's a great journalist. And he had on car, uh, Kara Swisher, and she is a tech, basically, she does tech reporting and she has her own podcast
Jolene: Okay, wait, you're, can I take a time out? You're so good about remembering names and we're old so the fact that [00:15:00] you can recall names like that is super impressive. So go on.
Nicole: Kara Swisher was hilarious and she knows all the tech bras. And she's a gay woman with four children
Jolene: Tech bros.
Nicole: Tech bros. The tech, the tech bros of
Jolene: Okay. I thought you said Tech Bra and I'm like,
Nicole: Oh, like
Jolene: do I need one of those in, in you do. Yes.
Nicole: It'll tickle your, it'll tickle your fancy.
Um,
Jolene: Oh,
Nicole: she knows him very, very well, she said, first of all, you know, Silicon Valley has never been liberal. we put that liberal moniker on Silicon Valley.
Silicon Valley cares about money. That's what they care about. They care about their shareholders, they care about the bottom line. All those guys, that's what they care about.
And she was describing the culture that they're all, she, she used the word beta, that they're all a bunch of
beta guys. And then Elon comes in and he's like hyper masculine
and that he creates [00:16:00] this, this, Perception of like strength and bravado similar to Trump, and that these guys just, they're like, oh my gosh, we can act like that.
Jolene: Here's our alpha male.
Nicole: right. And so here is our leader and, and the guys that he hires, like worship him laugh at his dumb jokes even when they're not funny. Like there's this sort of like
bow to the king kind of thing. And as Kara described it, she's, she, she's like, it's small dick energy, which we've talked about before. She's like, it's just small dick energy. she's like, he's filling this hole that he has, that he got in childhood is basically what she said. She, she said he is insecure, he's got an enormous ego.
And there was this one conference, and I wish I'd written it down again. Okay. Here, I can't remember
that Biden, uh, didn't invite Musk [00:17:00] to, It was in the last couple of years, and it was a game changer for Musk because they were looking at, in this interview, Musk used to be very liberal, and he shifted, and it was around that moment that Biden didn't invite Musk. He was pissed and hurt. He wasn't invited to the party, and he lashes out and he like, he's, as she put it, she's like, he's a little boy and
all these guys are, and they're just sort of, you know, I mean, don't you feel that way the way these politicians are? They're like, don't hurt me, me.
Jolene: Yes. But again, if we're trying to not be judgmental with our neighbors and our friends and the people we work with, it's okay to judge, you know, what Trump's really thinking or the way that he acts and you can say he brings it on himself.
Yes. But again, as compassionate human beings, aren't we [00:18:00] supposed to, you know, give grace to people and say, okay, well that stems from a, a childhood, um, you know, traumatic, you know, event and let's give them some grace and let's understand them and,
Nicole: if they weren't running the entire country, which then runs this entire world, I'd say absolutely. Do we need to give him grace? He needs to give us grace. I give you grace. You give me grace. But there isn't a lot of grace going on up there
Jolene: Okay, so what about the protests that are going on, the, the Democrats who are protesting and getting people to protest and call their congressmen and, and Yes, and or at, in Washington, even, even, and you saw all the congressmen that are, that are in congresswomen who are just, I mean, saying really vile evil things about Trump and Elon Musk.
Nicole: It's not acceptable. It's [00:19:00] people are at their wits end on both sides, I think. I think there are certain people that are like, stop. Just stop. And you and I are trying to do that.
We're trying to have a conversation and to humanize this,
but I think a lot of people on both sides feel helpless. Powerless.
Jolene: Well, and I think that's, that's something that Chuck Schumer even said yesterday. There's nothing we can do about it. Like, this is the reality. he won the election.
we as in Republicans have the Senate and we've got the House, and we've got the presidency. There's, I mean, we can put up a fight, which they did on some of the, the nominees, but when it comes down to it, there's, I mean, this is the reality.
Nicole: it's certainly the reality for the next two years.
I think it's important, uh, you know, we are in a country of free speech and we can, [00:20:00] can go and protest and I think for people that are feeling powerless and helpless, going to a protest together to be with people that feel that with, with them I think is healthy. I think people are feeling so alone and so isolated and they don't know what to do. And I think, I think it's a great first step. But then what else would you like to do to change it? Whether it be run for city council or
back, someone that you believe in to get in the next two years, this isn't permanent. Hopefully that we're still in a democracy
you know, I think that communing is healthy. I think the vileness not so much
on either, on either side. I
would agree with you. it's ugly. I can only speak for myself. I'm so tired of it.
and we as Democrats, we have to re [00:21:00] rethink the party. Revamp how we talk to each other, revamp how we talk about, you guys,
revamp about what's important, we are human beings, but okay, we're Americans, and let's remember that every time we are in conversation with someone that might have different views than we do.
Jolene: you and I have talked about this a million times before, it's like, it was, Newt Gingrich when he was elected, the speaker of the house. Let's start with the things that we agree on, because there we probably agree on 80% of the things.
Let's start with fixing and working through the things that we agree on need to be fixed. And I think that that's the same, could be, could be said right now for this, this Doge program is, you know, there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse. I mean, that's, that's the term that, that keeps coming out of this.
Let, let's take a look [00:22:00] at all the things that we can agree are waste, fraud, and abuse. what are the things that are considered waste, fraud, and abuse? I mean, is it, giving money, money to Hamas when we thought it was going to Syrian refugees. you know, that's fraud. is it transgender, you know, programs in Mozambique or Zimbabwe or, you know, somewhere, uh, you know, is that really, is that what, uh, US tax dollars who are working hard every day need to give their money to?
Probably not.
Nicole: We have to understand as the United States of America, how important our role is in keeping world peace
and keeping the world healthy and in terms of, us, I guess, being the most powerful country in the world and not letting Russia or China, take over and take over aid programs and do whatever I would be at a disadvantage for us as a country.
I am imagining that these, [00:23:00] these organizations are massive and that there are going to be list items that you and I will disagree on. I. but I think what Elon Musk is doing with Doge right now, what keeps coming up in my brain is didn't he say that he was gonna have full transparency?
And he's had no transparency. he's just, cutting everything.
Jolene: Okay. To say that he's cutting. I feel like he's going in there and saying, let's stop the, the fire hydrant, you know, of all the spending and let's take a look. I mean, because he hasn't stopped everything.
there are still funding programs that are directly benefiting the end user. I mean the, you know, uh, nutritional programs in Africa
Nicole: what I'm suggesting is that if you just slash everything, the system's gonna completely fall apart
one thing that I thought was interesting, just in terms of numbers that, cutting [00:24:00] U-S-A-I-D,
is less than 1% of the federal government.
Jolene: I am so glad you brought this up.
Nicole: Yes, they showed these, you know, these, these graphics where the United States provides the most aid to the world,
Jolene: Mm-hmm.
Nicole: which I found fascinating, and yet it's only 1%
of our federal government. Right. So that's where I. I, don't want us to go into this isolationist, I don't think that's healthy.
Not in this global world we're in anymore. We can't, there was something I heard, the U-S-A-I-D when they give packages of food or whatever, it has the American flag on it, on every piece. And that there is a message
of you're helping me,
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: which is so powerful and so important.
and then Musk said he called it Evil and Awoke agency. Clearly we liberals really pissed you guys off. [00:25:00] I mean, that's, that's what I have to say on that which goes to the Stephanie Holmes piece, Stephanie Holmes is the new HR director of DOGE and she created a company called, brighter Side hr, and it is the counter to the progressive ideology in corporate America.
She calls her training program a non woke version,
Jolene: I mean, do you get what the, what the whole anti woke
Nicole: Yes, I absolutely, yes. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And If there's any positivity that's coming out of that situation,
which is where the HR piece with DOGE is that those who really believe in it and will create a true culture.
Are going to flourish from it versus Silicon Valley that the bottom line is money.
And that was like the IT trend. [00:26:00] They're like, whew, don't have to deal with that.
Then I guess you don't deal with that.
Jolene: okay. So let's go back to, you had said something about the, the Waste Fraud and abuse and USAID you had said that there are programs that you would agree
That we need to take a look at. But I will say that the U-S-A-I-D, uh, I've seen a couple of interviews now where, it has been known to be a fraudulent. Program, uh, no, I shouldn't say a fraudulent program, that there's been fraud within that program that, that people have been fighting against for years.
So it was, it was not a well kept secret in Washington that the U-S-A-I-D program, that was going to be something that was gonna be, you know, primary and, and first and foremost upfront. This is one of those things that we're gonna, we're gonna go in and, and take a look at. But your point was, it's only 1% of our, of our, you know, US budget.
So here's where I think, um, speaking of the muzzle,
Nicole: [00:27:00] Velocity
Jolene: I wanna say muzzle to nope. Muzzle velocity.
Nicole: mean Mazeltov?
Jolene: Yeah. That's different, isn't it?
Um, that this muzzle velocity, because if we really wanna do something about our debt, it's not the 1% of U-S-A-I-D right?
It's, and so I am, I am afraid to say that, like we need to brace ourselves because shit's gonna get real bad, I think.
And I think we are going to, we had dinner with friends the other night and he said, listen, if, I mean, the number one, in fact even made notes on this, that it
from the
Nicole: both conservative? Your friends?
Jolene: Mm-hmm. Yep. But they are conservative. However, their point was, you know, this is all well and good, but, you know, if you really wanna do something about our national debt, let's, let's take a look at where we're spending our money.
Because our largest expenditure, 21% is social [00:28:00] security. We've got to have the guts to tackle our social security problem. I mean, it is a problem. My accountant said this a couple years
Nicole: isn't the, isn't the, uh, military spending the most?
Jolene: Nope. So social security is 21%. This is from the treasury.gov. Um, national Defense is 15%.
Nicole: Really?
Jolene: they've got health as 14% to really understand these, you'd have to dig into it. National interest on our debt is 13% because our freaking debt is so high.
13% we are paying in our debt, and then Medicare is 13%. So I don't know if health at number three is 14% and what Medicare is on 13% is health. Is that.
Nicole: because? Because, because Medicare is health too, or
Jolene: I don't know. Is, so is health, is that just Obamacare then you've got, you know, income security, which I don't understand what that is, at 9%.
Veterans benefits, 6% education and social services, [00:29:00] 3% national resources and environmental causes 2%. Transportation, 2%. Other 2%. So the point being, if you really want to make an impact in our 36 gazillion dollar debt, we're gonna have to tackle social security. And so I think to, I think this is a fun little conversation we're having about Doge and U-S-A-I-D.
I think shit's gonna get real pretty quickly if they really wanna do something about
Nicole: that being said, do you think this is performative at the expense of people's livelihoods?
Because it's, because it's only 1%, but it's,
but, but it's, it's a global impact. It's a global impact. It's affecting, you know, take the transgender thing off the table, But if we're looking at HIV programs in different parts of the world and making sure that like viruses, I mean, that's a big deal
that we stay as, as healthy and help our neighbors. And I'm with [00:30:00] you, that there's so much going on in this country that we're not dealing with the poverty, the hunger. what about our kids?
Jolene: Right. And, and so I, I love that we, and again, as a, as a Christian, I love that we've got a Peace Corps that is helping, you know, HIV in Africa, or, you know, all of the different things. You're right. And I hope we never get away from that because we do have an obligation as, you know, as a world leader to continue to support those countries that can't help themselves.
And so, you could then go into, is that, should that be the government's role though? Or is that, is that work we do through private entities? Because I, I would venture to guess there are as many, church organizations and private organizations that are helping, you know, with programming as well that isn't taxpayer funded.
So I think we'll agree on that, that those are things that we need to continue because it makes our world a better place.
Nicole: And it makes our world a safer place.
[00:31:00] And I think that is a government responsibility.
Jolene: Yep. Because like you said, you create a vacuum by, by cutting off that aid, that's the entry point for China and the, I mean, middle East terrorists and Russia to, to go in and say, oh, we'll help you,
Nicole: And it's also, it's also an entry point for when people, when people are hungry and scared and poor at times, they can become desperate or they become very vulnerable to people to manipulate,
Jolene: Yep.
Nicole: Then you're creating another enemy, and then we just look like dicks
Jolene: Yeah. Yep.
Nicole: not in disagreement that there's got to be a lot of. Corruption and fraud. We're an incredibly rich country. We don't take care of our people. certain people are big fat cats and other people have nothing,
Jolene: So if we're giving $20 million to help, you know, fund an AIDS program in Africa, but only 10 million, I mean, it's like a whole Haiti, like you give any money to [00:32:00] Haiti, the Haitian government is completely run by thugs. there is no way that that money is going to help the people who need it.
Nicole: but you're not concerned that he's overstepping left and and right, and breaking rules left and white
Jolene: yes, I am concerned. I am concerned
Nicole: I would think that.
you would be.
Jolene: But again, I just feel like it, we need a disruptor and maybe he is a bull in a China shop right now, but at least we're making some change, you know?
Nicole: Well, and that's what you all voted for.
Jolene: Right? And so I'm hoping that we have a really good court system that's set up and smart lawyers like your beloved Josh, that can say, okay, wait a second.
No. And now you've overstepped your boundaries. You can't
Nicole: but but the legal system, I mean, we can talk to him at some point, is totally broken and slow. Slow, slow. and then people that are disruptors, they bank on that so that they can get as much done without any oversight or see [00:33:00] things without any oversight.
Jolene: But in the meantime are we just got this drip, drip, drip, drip, drip of money that we are just shelling out left and right to things that are corrupt and not good. and I think, would we both agree that I'm not sure that there is a right way to do this?
Nicole: I actually am down with, things need to be changed and some shake up is good. I want them to follow the law and be transparent and not, you know, go in like bullies. That to me is not. The way to do it, but that's the way he does it. and that's why Trump has him doing it.
That's what he wants. And again, he won, Elon didn't win, but, but Elon paid for him to win. I mean, Elon gave so much money. There was really no way. I mean, we could, we've talked about it. We don't about, like, we as [00:34:00] liberals and Democrats, we have to get real about who we are and
what we want and look at what the entire country wants and and figure out how to stay true to ourselves and create a message that include more people,
and we're not there yet.
Everyone is just basically like getting up from their gut punch.
what surprised you about what I said today?
Jolene: That you listened to a Steve Bannon interview?
Nicole: Oh my God, it
Jolene: no. And I, I was just gonna say, I don't, I'm not so sure I could listen to
as Steve
Fannon.
Nicole: a rough, he's a rough one.
Jolene: Oh.
no, I think the thing that we've really, that we've landed on here is that we both agree that there's gotta be change. It's just, I think you, you feel like we're being bullies going in there, and I'm saying he's a disruptor and
maybe there's a better way to go about it, but I don't think we're gonna know that for another couple years.
Nicole: Oh, we're definitely [00:35:00] not, and they're banking on that too because, so that they can, you know, get their shit done or whatever.
Jolene: Yep.
So if you're new to this podcast we end every conversation with the Would You Rather Game. so I give Nicole a Would You Rather? And she gives me a Would you rather? And you have to, and you have to pick one. you can't
Nicole: You can't get at it. Mm-hmm.
Jolene: Mm-hmm. You have to pick one.
Nicole: Are you gonna go first or am
Jolene: Yes. 'cause it's so good.
Nicole: You're gonna go
first or you're
Jolene: excited. Yeah. No, I wanna go first.
Nicole: Okay. Go. Yes, I'm ready.
Jolene: Would you rather listen to Donald Trump read Warren Peace? Or listen to Elon Musk Sing America the Beautiful On repeat for 24 hours straight.
Nicole: Oh my God. You thought of this by yourself. You are a champion. Would you rather person wait, they're
both. They're both [00:36:00] 24
Jolene: 24 hours straight. Yep. For 24 hours straight. You either have to listen to Donald Trump read War in Peace, or you have to, you have to listen to Elon Musk, sing America the Beautiful On repeat,
Nicole: Oh my god. You know, I researched. Would you rather things I have like 300. None of them are this good. All right.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have a reason. Oh my God. I am choosing Donald Trump reading War and Peace. Why? Why you ask? 'cause he has such an enor, a beautiful voice that I really wanna hear those melodic tones. No, because I've never read Warren Peace. It's long. [00:37:00] So it will be he'll. Maybe get through it maybe once, maybe start it a second time. I'm not quite sure. Elon singing. Okay. It's annoying when any song gets stuck in your head. I can't. I can't.
Jolene: Oh my God, that is so good.
Nicole: So Donnie, get ready, get your reading
Jolene: And, you know, and you know, if he's gonna do like an audible that he's going to, I mean, you just watch him do a speech, like he can't stick to the, to
Nicole: It's
Jolene: teleprompter. So he's gonna start and he'll go, you know what, that was really good that they did that because you know what?
Nicole: Maybe
Jolene: gonna, it's gonna be an editorial.
Nicole: Yes. Or I can learn things to talk about on the pod.
Jolene: Oh God. That is good. Okay.
Nicole: in peace. Oh my God, that was so good. Okay, now I'm gonna give my boring one. Hold on a second. Okay.
would you rather have [00:38:00] telekinesis the ability to move things with your mind or to empathy, the ability to read minds?
Jolene: Oh God. I would not wanna read. Mines
not at all. Oh God. That that would be a horrible, horrible thing.
Nicole: Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna redo this. I'm gonna redo this. Would you rather have the,
Jolene: You can't even get it out.
Nicole: would you rather have the ability to have telekinesis over Elon Musk? Or telepathy to read Donald Trump's mind. Go,
Jolene: Oh God.
Nicole: doesn't
that so telekinesis. Okay. Yeah. See, see?
Jolene: That is good. Oh, wait. Telekinesis is the ability to move [00:39:00] things
Nicole: So you could physically move Elon Musk or
you could read Donald Trump's mind,
Jolene: Oh, I totally wanna read Donald Trump's mind, dude, wouldn't you? Oh,
Nicole: changed it, of course.
Jolene: ' Like when he says stuff, is he really going, eh, that's a bunch of shit. I didn't, I don't believe that at all.
Nicole: Like, I wanna know
about the the conversation or the press conference when he talked about Gaza being the Riviera, the
Middle East, Riviera
Jolene: the Middle East, right?
Nicole: and Netanyahu's face. I wanted telepathy with both of their minds. You just wanted, you wanted that caption, right? Like, there's the cartoon, like the
little
Jolene: the bubble,
Nicole: and, and, and be's going, oh fuck. What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? And Donald Trump's going, oh my God, this is the most amazing idea. Why didn't I think this sooner? I can't wait to start putting my, my Golden Trump name all over everything.
Jolene: that golf course is gonna be [00:40:00] fantastic. Wonder what the wind speeds are coming off of the Jordan,
Nicole: ay yy. Yy, those poor people. All right, my friend. Yeah. another episode of We've Got to Talk,
right?
Jolene: another one in the books. Thank
you for
joining us.
Nicole: Thank you for listening and, uh, we really do appreciate you if you're in this for the long haul. keep on listening. Share with your friends. Don't be afraid. Let's play on this playground together.
