The Aftermath of the Assassination of Charlie Kirk
Some moments stop time. The news of Charlie Kirk's assassination in Utah hit us like that. A gut punch that left us staring at our phones in disbelief, then at each other across our political divide, wondering how we got here. I'm Nicole, a liberal Democrat. Jolene is a conservative Republican. We've been friends for decades, but this tragedy has shaken us in ways we're still trying to understand.
The first thing we felt wasn't political - it was human. A young man with ideas, right or wrong, was gunned down for speaking his mind. That should terrify everyone, regardless of what you thought about Charlie's politics. When we start killing people for their opinions, we've crossed a line that no democracy can survive.
But then came the responses, and honestly, they broke our hearts all over again. Within hours, social media exploded with blame, hatred and the kind of vicious finger-pointing that makes you wonder if we've lost our collective soul. Republicans immediately blamed Democratic rhetoric for creating a climate of violence. Democrats pointed to years of inflammatory conservative messaging.
We’ve seen liberals celebrate on social media, calling Charlie a fascist who "got what he deserved." The cruelty has been horrifying.
Then there are conservatives turning Charlie into a martyr while calling for retaliation against the left.
The young man responsible for this heinous act was an enigma that none expected.
This is what we've created: a generation of young people so isolated, so angry, so convinced that violence is the answer that they're willing to kill strangers over political disagreements. We've gamified hatred, monetized outrage, and algorithmically optimized division until murder feels like political participation.
The most heartbreaking part? Charlie Kirk was a husband, a father and he had people who loved him with dreams he'll never fulfill. But in our rush to score political points, we've forgotten he was human. We've turned his death into content, his murder into ammunition for our endless culture war.
We keep asking ourselves: How did we get here? How did we become a country where political assassination feels inevitable rather than shocking? The answer isn't comfortable, but it's honest - we all played a part. Every time we shared content designed to make us hate the other side, every time we reduced complex human beings to political caricatures, every time we chose outrage over understanding, we contributed to this moment.
The loneliness epidemic is real. Mental health resources are inadequate. Social media algorithms are designed to radicalize us for profit. But beyond all the systemic problems, there's a simpler truth: we've stopped seeing each other as human beings. We've become so invested in being right that we've forgotten how to be kind.
Charlie Kirk's assassination should be a wake-up call, but we're afraid it won't be. Instead of soul-searching, we're seeing more of the same - blame, hatred, and calls for revenge. The cycle continues, and somewhere another isolated young person is consuming the rage we're producing, getting angrier by the day.
We don't have easy answers, but we have a plea: Stop. Just stop. Stop celebrating political violence. Stop dehumanizing people who disagree with you. Stop feeding the algorithms that profit from our division. Start having real conversations with real people who see the world differently than you do.
This isn't about being politically correct or "both sides-ing" everything. This is about recognizing that when we normalize political violence, everyone loses. When we turn human beings into political symbols, we make it easier to justify killing them. When we choose hatred over understanding, we create the conditions for more shooters and more families destroyed by senseless violence.
We're writing this through tears, honestly. Tears for Charlie, tears for his family, tears for the shooter's family, tears for a country that seems determined to tear itself apart. But also tears of hope, because we believe Americans are better than this.
We have to be.
If you're reading this, you have a choice. You can keep feeding the machine that turns neighbors into enemies, or you can choose something harder - empathy, understanding, and the radical act of treating people with whom you disagree as fellow human beings worthy of dignity and life.
Charlie Kirk deserved to live, regardless of his politics. The next person targeted for their beliefs deserves to live too. And maybe, if we can remember that simple truth, we can find our way back to each other before it's too late.
resources mentioned:
Polls and Data: YouGov Poll on Political Violence
Political Responses: Governor Spencer Cox: https://youtu.be/PVYqYCHDqHA?si=74Eo3-Uh1uyu9ySy
Senator Bernie Sanders Statement: https://youtu.be/EUPgz8Q05o4?si=9IUVwsRoMAzo-WK5
Media Coverage: The Free Press: https://www.youtube.com/live/Nzachq_DqmQ?si=lDbYBpNkH1TXTF5K
Tangle Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tangle/id1538788132?i=1000726756203
Social Media/Commentary: James Talarico: https://www.instagram.com/jamestalarico/?hl=en
Dan Lanning:https://x.com/albertbreer/status/1967214250449047912?s=4
Episode Graphic Photo Attribution: By Gage Skidmore - https://www.flickr.com/photos/22007612@N05/54509268739/, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=174850687
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[00:00:00] Nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't talk about politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:19] Jolene: I don't wanna be overly dramatic here. I think this is the most important episode we've done to date.
[00:00:25] Nicole: I agree with you. so for all of you listening and watching, it is September 14th, Sunday, September 14th. thankfully because of, uh, our incredible team at Bambi Media with Brianna and Alex, as soon as the Charlie Kirk assassination happened on Wednesday afternoon, and I actually was in Utah, and so it was about 45 minutes south from Salt Lake City. we immediately let them know the gravity of the situation and they are doing their best to jump the queue. And you are [00:01:00] gonna be hearing this on, um, this coming Wednesday. So thank you Bambi Media and Alex and Brianna. this has been Jolene. I mean, I have lots, a lot of things to talk about with you, A lot of things to say.
[00:01:17] Nicole: I, I would love to know, I did call you right away, but I would love to know how you felt, how you're feeling. I mean, I'm heartbroken. I can't, I kind of can't stop crying about all of it.
[00:01:32] Jolene: the shock of seeing it happen is one part of this, right? Like we all saw, we all saw it, and if you didn't see it, um, it's horrific. And I, and, and I know you already know that. and then to hear that he died, uh, like when you see it happen, you're like, oh, I don't, I don't know that someone survives something like that.
[00:01:54] Jolene: Then when he died, you just, like, all of a sudden the, the [00:02:00] emotions come over you. And it's, and he was not an elected official, but it's this assassination that I'm sure it was the same feelings that people had when they saw Kennedy get shot or, you know, I mean, it's that, that horrific feeling. But the thing that has gotten me more than anything is the rhetoric and the reaction that has come from it since then. we are at a, at a time and a place in this country that I just don't freaking understand that you could have such a horrible, in, horrible incident happen. And there are people who are applauding it and laughing about it and saying he had it coming and, and the words karma and, and all of that. I, it just.
[00:02:50] Jolene: Absolutely amplifies any feeling that you had from that point, and it's absolutely devastating to me. [00:03:00] You tell me what your reaction is.
[00:03:02] Nicole: I was on a walk with my niece and then we came back and she said Charlie Kirk was shot and. To be honest, I didn't know who Charlie Kirk was until March 6th and March 6th was Gavin Newsom started his podcast, I think a week after us, and his first guest was Charlie Kirk. And I was so struck that Gavin was possibly doing something similar to what you and I wanted to do about talk about different voices, and I had no idea who this Charlie Kirk person was. and I listened to the episode and I didn't agree with most of what he said, but I did agree with some things, and he was so smart and so [00:04:00] articulate so passionate and believed in. The art of debate and conversation, I think there's sort of the seven stages of grief happening for everyone. The sort of the shock and then the sadness and the anger. I cannot believe we founded this country on free speech. We, the people, the, our forebearers came here so that they could believe and, and worship and speak about things that they were not allowed to speak about in the country before.
[00:04:41] Nicole: And we've come so far, uh. That, you know, as we've talked about with so many of our episodes, with the algorithms and the pitting against each other, we have the far right declaring civil war and revenge, and we have the far left laughing [00:05:00] and we have forgotten this person was a human being. You might not like what he wants to say and you, and you might think it's hateful, and that is absolutely your right, but no one deserves to be killed. Where are we? What, what is going on?
[00:05:26] Jolene: I, I think, um, this was something that my, my brother-in-law sent, um. To, to us last night, and this was a, today dot u gov.com.
[00:05:40] Jolene: It is a platform that allows people to weigh in on their thoughts. So it does different surveys and, um, and, and so one, I I think I, I have to share this because, it, it's so absolutely disturbing. To, to look at this, that I'm, [00:06:00] I'm having a hard time even like wrapping my brain around this. the question was about political violence not everyone is agreeing on the degree of to which political violence has a role in the United States. Can I just say that again? There are people that think political violence has a place in the United States. What freaking world are we in?
[00:06:33] Jolene: That that is, that, that is the a thought even.
[00:06:38] Nicole: There, there Jolene. There is a, um, it's from the Barry Weiss thing that I'll bring up, but there was a poll from, uh, the Foundation for individual Rights and expression. 34% of college students believe that the use of violence to prevent someone from speaking on campus is [00:07:00] acceptable.
[00:07:00] Nicole: We are so broken.
[00:07:02] Jolene: then when you break this down to, um, by age group, there was just this, this incredible increase from, from people over 65 who said absolutely not down to the, um, 18 to 22-year-old group who said, yeah, it's okay. I think we have got to figure out why that is, I try to take these conversations that you and I have with empathy and kindness and loving as, as we do, and I think we've been able to do this. This has gotten me so fired up because I feel like it is absolutely one sided.
[00:07:40] Jolene: And, and, and, and let me preface this by saying I understand that the speaker of the house in Minnesota was, was, uh, assassinated and her husband Democrat and their Democrats, I understand the whack job that went into the Pelosi's house and um, and, [00:08:00] and struck Nancy Pelosi's husband with a freaking hammer with the intent to try to kill Nancy Pelosi, the assassination attempts against Trump. these are. Whack jobs and the mental health issues. I mean, you know, we were gonna do an episode on the Ukrainian woman, you know, on the, on the train in Charlotte, who was stabbed by a mentally insane psycho for absolutely no reason. If we don't get some help on dealing with the mental illness in this country, it is absolutely killing us.
[00:08:39] Jolene: But, so I preface all that by saying I understand that it's on both sides. It's, it's, it's the Republicans and the Democrats, but you know what's not happening right now? We don't see riots in the streets after this happened, after a conservative was assassinated for stating his political views. We don't see [00:09:00] riots.
[00:09:00] Jolene: We don't see the, the burning and the people in the streets that are looting and, and, and all the crap that we've had to deal with. When Democrats are just, you know, up in arms about whatever it is. I mean, you know, it stemmed from, I, I think it, I mean, how it stemmed from years, but I mean, in, in recent, relatively recent times, starting with George Floyd and all of the, you know, the, the horrible reaction that Democrats have to events and they take it to the streets and they, no one's doing that here.
[00:09:36] Jolene: You know what we're doing, you know what the Republicans are doing. They're praying. I, I hope everybody went to church today. I hope that people are looking at Charlie Kirk's message and saying, we need more. God, we've got, this is absolutely, this is, this is demonic. The reaction that people have had to Charlie Kirk's death is demonic.
[00:09:58] Jolene: It's from the devil. [00:10:00] And, and you know me, I'm not a, I'm not a Bible thumping conservative. I mean, I, I try to live my faith, but. I look at this and I don't, I don't see any other way around it.
[00:10:16] Jolene: Damn.
[00:10:22] Jolene: What are your thoughts?
[00:10:28] Nicole: Um, I understand why you feel the way you do. I do see it more from both the right and the left. I think meaning I think. The far left and the far right. Take advantage of people who are lost and looking to belong. And they go down this rabbit hole of algorithms. And we've [00:11:00] talked about just last week in our How America Got Mean episode about, we're in the state of, we're in a time of deep loneliness, which is then translates to deep violence. Like that episode couldn't have happened. It literally aired the same day he was killed. And I get scared about the acts of revenge. what we've learned as this 22-year-old boy not fully developed person. he came from Republican parents. He was raised LDS, which is Mormon. He doesn't fit the type.
[00:11:41] Nicole: It's not the type that maybe I'm not being fair, but I think maybe the w right. Was hoping that it would be someone that was, uh, Antifa or whatever. I think we still don't know totally [00:12:00] what the motive was other than he didn't like Charlie Kirk, which there's no reason to kill that person. I agree with you. Having, being, being on the left, being a liberal, having, um, attended a lot of protests in my life, all the protests that I've ever. Been involved in, have been peaceful and
[00:12:25] Jolene: Which I agree with. Yes,
[00:12:27] Nicole: so I'm just gonna set the record straight that as a liberal and as a Democrat, I also don't like it when, when cities burn and property is damaged and we feel unsafe, I don't like it either.
[00:12:47] Nicole: I want a free, peaceful protest. That
[00:12:52] Nicole: is where, where I come from. Um, I also don't think I, I, I've [00:13:00] been hearing a lot of, I've mean, I've been listening and reading ever since Wednesday. Um, and one thing that, that I'm hearing a lot too, and I wanna say this as a liberal and as a Democrat, Sorry, it's really emotional, um, that we are using language. we are calling people expletives. We are calling people fascists. We are calling people racist. We are calling people really, um, we're calling people Nazis on our YouTube page. I'm in charge of the comments. I can't tell you how many times we've been called Nazis. I'm Jewish, [00:14:00] sort of, I mean, my dad is, my people are.
[00:14:03] Nicole: I'm like, we are. So, and I don't even, to be unfair or to this is how I'm feeling. I don't even wanna say they're left, they're liberal. I don't know who these people are. Like, I would like to have a conversation where I look at you and I know you, and I'm starting to know some of your conservative friends who I really like, and Susie shout out and I don't look at you.
[00:14:32] Nicole: And when Trump says something totally fucking crazy, I don't go, Jolene, that's who you are. And that's what we've done. That's what we've done between the algorithms and the finger pointing. And so these children that are in college, they're not fully formed as we talked about in, uh, last week. Like they are not getting any examples of how to argue with respect of how to dissent and, [00:15:00] and, and, and actually maybe even enjoy these cerebral gymnastics.
[00:15:07] Nicole: That's clearly what Charlie Kirk did. I am not putting him on a pedestal. I don't agree with a lot of what he said, but I appreciated that. He was like, prove me wrong. Tell me, tell me like, let's have a conversation. Which I was like, that's what we're talking about. Everything's become so theatrical. Those, those conversations on YouTube where they have one conservative and 20 liberals, or one liberal and 20 conservatives and they start screaming at each other, I'm like, that's not conversation.
[00:15:39] Jolene: Okay. So can. So can we talk about why that's happening? Because I, and I would love to know if this is happening in other countries. You know, is this happening in Australia? Is this happening in the uk or is this type of vitriol happening in other countries? Or is it [00:16:00] something that, um, why, why is it happening here?
[00:16:03] Jolene: Why, I mean it,
[00:16:04] Nicole: Jolene what I, one thing that's funny that you mention that. So I have a dear friend Anna, and she lives in Barcelona and she just wrote me about the, how America got mean. And she was like, it's she, and she literally said, America's not the only one. That's mean, the the whole world is, and she's lived in Mexico and she's lived in, um, Santa Domingo and she, I mean she's lived everywhere and she's currently living in Barcelona.
[00:16:33] Nicole: And she was like that. That's the state of, at least the places that she's been in.
[00:16:39] Jolene: and you and I have seen this, that, and especially on the comments that we get on our social media, that people are, are looking at the sound bites that we put out that are meant to be an advertisement or a clip, a snippet of what our entire episode is about.
[00:16:56] Jolene: And I see, um, the comments and, [00:17:00] and both you and I have talked about this a million times that, oh, they're reacting to the ten second clip that they saw, not the entirety of the, of the episode. And I feel like the people that, that I love and respect who are liberals on social media, I mean, and that I know personally and I'm looking at their social media.
[00:17:21] Jolene: That were kind of like, Hmm, too bad about your person getting assassinated. Eh, he deserved it. And I'm like, I, but I know these people and I can't believe that they think that. So then if I, uh, okay, so then I have a conversation and I listen to them and they say, you know, Charlie Kirk said really bad things about black people.
[00:17:51] Jolene: Or Charlie Kirk said really bad things about gays. Or, um, I, I, I mean, you know, transgender, I mean, go [00:18:00] down the list and, but here's the problem. Our, we're a society, I believe now that we're so. Um, we want likes and we want people to think that we're smart and we want people to think that we are, um, that we know a lot about, a whole bunch of different things.
[00:18:20] Jolene: And so we are taking the information that's given to us in 10 and 15 second sound bites and then forming an opinion, and then we are putting it out there. Like, we know something about this topic, Charlie Kirk is a racist, and they're taking something that he said completely outta context and saying the, and here's the proof.
[00:18:43] Jolene: So what I've done since you and I decided to, to do this podcast is take a look at then the, the things that he has said and looked at it in the whole context of, of his conversation. And I'm going, well. [00:19:00] Like you, I don't agree with everything that he said. I, I, I mean, there were, he and I felt like there were some things that he probably said that you and I wouldn't say to each other, but again, whatever.
[00:19:17] Jolene: But to say that he was a racist, no, I, I don't think to say that he didn't like gay people. Do you know how many I I, there was a, there was a guy who is, is a, a gay black man who works for Turning Point USA and he goes, there's a lot of gays working for Turning Point USA, which was Charlie Kirk's organization.
[00:19:36] Jolene: And he's going, yeah, he wasn't anti-gay at all. I have a real problem with understanding why people are taking these sound bites and turning them into gospel and saying, this is what he thought. Because I just, I just heard it right here. And here's the other interesting thing, Nicole. so Callie did this [00:20:00] with, um, with our friend Brooke, and she said, tell me what your feed, and, and Brooke is liberal.
[00:20:07] Jolene: She said, show me what your feed is on Charlie Kirk. If you were just to put into your social media, Charlie, Kirk, what's all the things that come up for you? And it was all of the derogatory things on Charlie Kirk. When Callie said, I put Charlie Kirk into my feed. All of the positive things come out. You know, that align with the conservative movement again, and we, I know you and I've talked about this, we're only being fed what we believe.
[00:20:35] Jolene: And so we've created this echo chamber that is only continuing to feed our preconceived notions. So when someone says that Charlie Kirk was anti-gay. You are a Democrat, that's all that you're gonna hear is that he was anti-gay. And they're gonna take the snippets that, that prove, that that point for you.
[00:20:56] Jolene: And I would say this, I learned this after the George [00:21:00] Floyd incident when he died, it was this awakening of how we're treating our black friends. And um, I remember, and Jeff was coaching at the time, and so, um, he had his, his football players, the wide receivers in, in the room. And it was a whole conversation of what can we as white people do to make you the black people in this room, uh, feel honored and feel valued and feel, you know, this is horrible.
[00:21:34] Jolene: And the answer that was, that was always, was mostly given was. Hey, it's not up to me, the black person to tell you what you need to find out about me. It's for you to do the work. You need to do the work to figure out how we, what's your preconceived notions? What, you know, what, what, what, um, what racism or, um, values do you, can you bring to the table and how that [00:22:00] you see me?
[00:22:00] Jolene: I will say this to all of our listeners who feel that way about Charlie Kirk. Go do the work. Go listen to his entire podcast or his speeches at campuses, and don't just take the 10 to 15 second clips that are feeding your social media to just validate what your preconceived notion is.
[00:22:24] Nicole: I mean, I thought of you, there's so much to say. Uh, I thought of, I've been thinking of you the whole, I mean, I think of you all the time anyway now, but, um, uh, about, and I've, because I deal with the comments on YouTube too. And the algorithms and all the things. For the first time ever, I'm thinking, is this a real person?
[00:22:48] Nicole: and this is so Jolene, is it Russia or China? Nicole never thought this ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. But I, but you said it in the last episode, and I'm gonna say it again. [00:23:00] Listener, viewer. We are being manipulated. We are being manipulated to hate each other. And you know, who wins? The corporations and the other countries that are doing this, not us, they are loving that we're fighting.
[00:23:18] Nicole: They are loving that. One person wants civil war and the other person's laughing. They are loving it. We just are so sucked in. And I agree with you, Jolene, and one of the things, uh, that in all of my, um, consumption the last couple of days that people, liberals that would say that they knew him or they talked to him and they said, he never attacked me personally, ever, he attacked.
[00:23:51] Nicole: Like if he was in a conversation and he'd be passionate about what he was talking about and he wanted you to, he wanted to [00:24:00] convince you. Like I think that's something that's different with you and I, we're not trying to convince each other,
[00:24:05] Nicole: right? Like, I love you and respect you and I might not agree with some of the things that you believe and you don't agree.
[00:24:10] Nicole: And, and honestly, okay.
[00:24:13] Jolene: Yeah. Right.
[00:24:15] Nicole: like, I love you. I have such like that's, and, and, and that's the thing is that. We have forgotten that we are all human and that this someone killed someone because they didn't like what they said. That's the country we're in. That's not okay kids. It's not okay. We as adults, we are the adults we need to take, talk about, do the work.
[00:24:45] Nicole: We all the adults, all the colors of the adults need to sit down with our children and tell them and teach them how to communicate, how to, uh, deescalate a situation, how to respect [00:25:00] someone despite what they think or be curious about that they think something different than me. I do want to, at some point in this podcast, and I'm gonna put them in the show notes as well. Some people I wanna shout out to some people that have done incredible journalism and or, or politicians that have risen up to the occasion. So should I do it now or should I wait?
[00:25:27] Jolene: No, go right ahead.
[00:25:28] Nicole: Okay. there's, the governor in Utah is named Governor Spencer Cox. He is a Republican. he wasn't a Trumper. And then be, kind of became one, and I don't really know. I've never liked him. I, I've, I've found him to be too politiciany for me. And he had this slogan called Disagree Better, which I was like. I just, I just was not into him. I am so impressed with the [00:26:00] Republican governor of Utah. and Bernie Sanders hands down, they rose to the occasion. They acted like grownups in the room and they understand the gravity of the moment.
[00:26:12] Nicole: And I'm gonna share, uh, a little what, uh, governor Cox said. He said, the murder of Kirk is much bigger than an attack on an individual. It is an attack on all of us. It is an attack on the American experiment. It is an attack on our ideals. He never blamed anyone. Not one person. And when he gave this statement, we still didn't know who the killer was, but he didn't point fingers.
[00:26:50] Nicole: He didn't, he was angry. He reminded people that utah's a uh, menopause [00:27:00] moment. What is
[00:27:02] Jolene: Open carry state.
[00:27:03] Nicole: Well, it's an open carry skate. It's a, it's a wild, it's the wild West in Utah. But, um, no capital punishment.
[00:27:09] Jolene: Oh,
[00:27:10] Jolene: death penalty.
[00:27:11] Nicole: yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That it's a death penalty state. Um, he did, he was just really real when the, when they, when they caught the assassin, he said, oh my gosh, I wish he hadn't been a Utah like he was hoping it was someone from outta state.
[00:27:28] Nicole: 'cause he said, I wanted to be able to say, we don't do that here. You know, it's so complicated. It's so nuanced. This kid is not the, is not what people wanted him to be. He was a screwed up, lost child kid.
[00:27:46] Nicole: Um, and it seems to be a, a lot of, there's a lot of that in this, in this country. Senator Bernie Sanders gave a statement that I sent to you, Joe.
[00:27:58] Nicole: It was beautiful. And so these, [00:28:00] all of these just, so this episode is not just about anger and crying. Uh, we will, we are trying to give some, like positive things for you guys to look at, uh, to understand that there are some really, really good people out there that are trying, that want. This country to thrive and want this experiment to continue and don't want to go into civil war and don't want to blame anymore. there's two other things that, uh, I think I sent it to you, Joe, the, um, uh, Barry Weiss interview. it's, uh, it's a u it's the YouTube, it's car Charlie Kirk's murder with, uh, Barry Weiss. It's Ben Shapiro, it's Senator Mark Kelly. It's all these different, people from the right and the left that have an, a very moving and respectful and thoughtful conversation.
[00:28:56] Nicole: Um, and lastly, today [00:29:00] there was a, as in today being Sunday, September 14th. Uh, t did a special edition episode, and it was an interview with a 16-year-old girl who was at the rally. She was at the speech and she was interviewed. It was so moving. She's 16 years old and truly we could all learn from her. She was so smart. She was so thoughtful. She told her experience, but also talked about what we need to do as a country. And she's 16 and she, and she gets it. And I was, uh, incredibly impressed with this young woman. And so we'll put this in the show notes as well. so that. We can, you know, take, [00:30:00] take as they, as they're saying, turn down the heat.
[00:30:02] Jolene: who is the state legislator from Texas that you love and I follow him to?
[00:30:08] Nicole: James Teleco. I love,
[00:30:11] Jolene: I kept thinking, Steve.
[00:30:12] Jolene: James Teleco.
[00:30:13] Nicole: Are you following him on Instagram? I'll put him in the show notes too. He is what a, what a wonderful person that
[00:30:20] Jolene: He's, because he's a, I think he's a deeply religious person, and
[00:30:24] Jolene: so a lot of his, oh, that's right. So a lot of his comments come from being Christian, not so much from being a, a legislator, he is a state legislator in, in Texas right now, but it sounds like he's running for Congress. Um, and if I were in Texas, I would vote for him because I just think he looks at things through the, uh, uh, the lens of being a, a Christian, uh, uh, just a, a good person, a good.
[00:30:55] Jolene: Person who with good ethics. so yes. If we could put him in [00:31:00] No, go ahead.
[00:31:00] Nicole: And, and can I say not being a Christian? I love him.
[00:31:05] Jolene: Yes.
[00:31:06] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:31:06] Nicole: I don't, right. 'cause I don't look at it as like, I just look at it as what a good heart this man has and what good intentions he has. And I think you and I on this podcast too, like I deeply respect your faith and a, as someone that was raised with many faiths and has my own journey, like I, I guess I, I am, I'm encouraging our listener and our viewer. Uh, just because a person might not have a religious background or a religious faith does not mean that they're not good or that they
[00:31:44] Nicole: don't want. Right. I'm, I I'm not saying I'm, yeah.
[00:31:48] Jolene: Yes. And, and I think too that, I mean, as a someone who knows you and, and loves you and knows your heart, I, I think because I'm a Christian, I do think that [00:32:00] you are a spiritual person just in a different way. Like you don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior.
[00:32:06] Jolene: I still think that your values, um, I think still reflect those that are similar to mine.
[00:32:15] Nicole: I think you and I really want to. Create a community where that we're not so labeled like everything is so, like Republicans are Christian, Republicans are white, Republicans are this, Republicans are that. Liberals don't shave their armpits. Liberals don't wear bras when they go to Whole Foods.
[00:32:35] Nicole: Liberals don't believe in God or whatever it is, you know? And, and, and it's not
[00:32:41] Jolene: And none of those things are true.
[00:32:43] Nicole: none of those things are true. And, we all are so complex.
[00:32:48] Jolene: So can I add someone else to this list that, um, Dan Lanning is, um, the head football coach for the University of Oregon, and he gave a press conference
[00:32:59] Nicole: Oh, [00:33:00] go ducks.
[00:33:01] Jolene: and I'm so proud of you for even know that they're the ducks.
[00:33:03] Nicole: Well, we had a kid that almost went there and we were really excited to be a duck parent, and then it didn't
[00:33:07] Jolene: Okay. Okay. All
[00:33:09] Nicole: pandemic happened.
[00:33:10] Jolene: he, um, gave a, well, we'll put it in the show notes, and he talks about, and he, he talks about this incident and how it relates to football and, and here's, here's what is so interesting to me. Last night we're watching the Arkansas Ole Miss Football game so Arkansas is the visiting team.
[00:33:29] Jolene: They're playing at the University of Mississippi last night. So most of the crowd is Ole Miss fans. There's a defensive player for Arkansas that goes down, is injured and he's not moving.
[00:33:43] Nicole: Mm.
[00:33:43] Jolene: And, both teams immediately, you know, take a knee, they bring the stretcher out. I mean, at this point everybody knows that it's very, um, like something bad has happened.
[00:33:55] Jolene: The two head coaches, I mean, this is a rival. These, this is a [00:34:00] rivalry. The. Ole Miss and, and Arkansas. both SEC teams that, you know, have no love for each other. Both the coaches are standing together on the field while they're working on this kid. They bring the stretcher out, huh? They get the kid up on the stretcher and, and the crowd claps.
[00:34:21] Jolene: They start wheeling him off. Then in the, in the, in, in, in the cart. And as he's being wheeled off of the field, he puts a thumb up, he moves his arm and puts his thumb up, and the crowd erupts and cheers. The crowd for the other team is erupting for this kid. And at that moment, I'm going, wait a second.
[00:34:46] Jolene: If we can do this in a football game, where the, where the actual intent is to physically. Tackle the o the the guy with the ball. [00:35:00] Like that is the intent here. And if we see a tragic thing happen that we take a minute and we go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's keep perspective here. Let's, let's, I mean the, okay, that's the game, but now something tragic has happened and let's just keep in mind that, that there is a human being that's hurt.
[00:35:19] Jolene: And, and then when he gives this, this signal that he's gonna be okay, that everybody rallies around him and cheers for him. No one said, ah, you know what? He's been leading with his helmet this entire game. He deserved. He deserved that. No one said, Ugh. You know what? He was, um, he said some horrible things on social media when he was 18 years old.
[00:35:44] Jolene: He deserved that. That's karma. You know what that is? That's karma. No one did that. And I just, I, at that moment, it hit me. Why in the world are politics so vile right now that we've completely [00:36:00] lost perspective, that we are cheering for the assassination of someone that we don't think that we agree with.
[00:36:07] Jolene: It's ludicrous.
[00:36:12] Jolene: So I, I, I, I, I hope you know, Charlie Kirk's organization was called Turning Point. Turning Point USA. I hope this is a turning point in our country. I hope that his death is not in vain and that this is a wake up call for all of us. I, I see how it has affected you. My sweet Democrat liberal friend, and I think, okay, we've got hope.
[00:36:49] Jolene: You know, I, I don't think that. Um, I don't think that we're all freaking whack jobs.
[00:36:57] Nicole: No. [00:37:00] I, everyone that I have spoken to and I have got a lot of liberals in my tribe, they're devastated. Conservatives. Were devastated. Don't believe social media. We are devastated. This is not okay. We all live in the same country. We all want to be safe. We all want to be able to say what we feel and not worry that we're gonna get killed. We don't want our kids to get killed in school. We're devastated. We don't wanna live in a country like this. [00:38:00]
[00:38:01] Nicole: I think
[00:38:01] Jolene: and I agree with you too, that I think, I think the rhetoric on both sides, I, I, I know that I lashed out earlier in the podcast. Um, I, I know that it's a bad on both sides. You know, please hear me, my, my democrat friend and, and democrat listener. I know that the rhetoric, rhetoric on both sides, as you said, Nazis and, and
[00:38:26] Jolene: Hitler.
[00:38:26] Nicole: And that, and that is
[00:38:28] Jolene: and when we call communism, yes, when we call Bernie Sand, when we call Bernie Sanders or a OCA Communist and
[00:38:38] Nicole: Communist socialists, like all of these really, um, charged words. They're charged words. And as you so eloquently said, Jolene do the work.
[00:38:52] Jolene: Yep.
[00:38:53] Nicole: A couple, a couple episodes ago, this man reached out to us and we talked about it on an [00:39:00] episode already, but it was actually, um, it was in response to a, it was about socialism.
[00:39:06] Nicole: It was a Mom Donny episode. That's what it was. And he, uh, sent us a video and it was an incredible video. It's just a history of what this, what it is. It's not bad. There's a lot of very thing. There are things like the, uh, five day work day, the eight hour day, or five day work week, the eight hour day, no child labor, but we have just. Taking these words, the left throws, racist, sexist, uh, Nazi and the right throws. Socialist. Communist. What other Antifa? You're Antifa, you're a Nazi.
[00:39:53] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:39:54] Nicole: Really?
[00:39:55] Nicole: I think we're exhausted. And, and again, one thing that, that [00:40:00] Governor Cox said, he's like, walk away. He, I don't think he used the word walk away, but I'm gonna say it. Walk away from the phone. He did say touch grass. Be in nature, which is what you and I talk about all the time.
[00:40:12] Jolene: I am so, I am so glad you just used that term because Callie just said to to me the other day, she said, um, you know, that's a, that's a term. And I go touch grass, that's a term. And she goes, yes, that is a term of, of what you just said. Get away from social media, get outside, go for a walk. Touch the touch grass, touch nature, be in nature.
[00:40:33] Jolene: Do things that are healthy instead of, and so I didn't realize that that was a term touch
[00:40:39] Nicole: I, I did. I mean, I'd, I'd, I hadn't heard it until he used it and I was like, oh, I like that. Um, and Mormons love grass. I I don't mean, I don't, I don't mean weed. They love a lawn.
[00:40:52] Jolene: No. Oh,
[00:40:53] Nicole: they might, they might love weed too, but they love a lawn. Um, it's not legal in Utah yet, so, As we've talked about [00:41:00] in several episodes, like the amount of information that we all have with these phones and these little computers in our pockets, the amount of tragedy that we have at our fingertips to see death and destruction all over the world, all day long.
[00:41:18] Nicole: Our nervous systems cannot handle it and are so taxed and easily manipulated.
[00:41:25] Jolene: so if you've got somebody who is, you know, slightly Off the rocker, you know, I mean, dealing with some mental health issues as I think most of us are probably on the verge of, to be honest. I mean
[00:41:40] Nicole: Well, I think we're, we're we've got so much Yes, that is just absolutely coming at us that we can only, like you said, we can only handle so much.
[00:41:50] Jolene: And you've got somebody then who doesn't have either the wherewithal to get help or the environment to get help, and [00:42:00] they hear the these, these snippets, these 15 second snippets, and they're triggered literally.
[00:42:09] Nicole: Yeah,
[00:42:09] Jolene: And here we are.
[00:42:11] Nicole: I feel so sad for the, the, the assassin's family. They recognized their child and they had the goodness and their character to turn their child in. How incredibly painful that must be for those parents and their community.
[00:42:39] Jolene: Ugh.
[00:42:40] Nicole: It's just,
[00:42:42] Jolene: Could you imagine? I, I mean, I
[00:42:45] Nicole: can you imagine?
[00:42:46] Jolene: imagine, Hmm.
[00:42:48] Nicole: but when, like I said before this tangle interview with this sweet, sweet girl that was at the, um, rally, I don't know what you call it, meeting, [00:43:00] uh, gathering last Wednesday. Do yourself a favor and listen to this interview. she will give you hope for our future, and she will also in a really like beautiful way, remind us of how fragile it is to be on this planet together. Okay.
[00:43:22] Jolene: Thank you. Thank you for giving me an outlet I, again, I apologize for,
[00:43:28] Nicole: Jolene, for being so emotional about, please don't. apologize. because I you know, that.
[00:43:34] Nicole: this is honest and raw and this is what I think a lot of people are feeling.
[00:43:40] Jolene: I, I agree. I, I think what you and I do here is we try to listen to the other person's perspective. And, and I'm so grateful that I have you in my life that I can, that you were, you know, you were one of the, the very first people to call and say, oh my gosh, I am so, I, [00:44:00] I'm devastated by what happened.
[00:44:02] Jolene: And that right there that you and I have each other makes me so happy and makes me my soul feel so good that when the other people have such a horrible response. I think they don't have a Nicole in their lives, you know, they don't have somebody that they can absolutely have a conversation with and go, wait, I don't, I don't get this.
[00:44:32] Jolene: So thank you. Thank you for being loving and caring and loving me as a Republican. And even though we don't agree on issues, we still agree that, you know, there is good in humanity and that we're, we both want a good country and a good world. And I mean, that's the important thing here.
[00:44:57] Nicole: Absolutely. Um, [00:45:00] I have tried to avoid social media in the sense not, I can't really, 'cause I'm I dealing with our podcast on social media, but I've tried to, uh, not engage or when I've seen hateful rhetoric, as, as it's happened when it's come at us on YouTube, when, when hateful rhetoric has come. I sort of, I mean, I'm a human being and it, it hurts and I, I, you know, have a visceral reaction. But I honestly, I take a deep breath and I think, I'm so sorry you're hurting. 'cause why are you compelled to write that it's not about me. It's not about you. [00:46:00] Something hurt hurts is hurting them. Like that saying of like, hurt people, hurt people, they don't have anyone to talk to, so they shout it out on a screen. And that, and a lot of, you know, millions of people do that now. We're so alone. I am, I'm hoping we're gonna do a Would you rather? Just because Did you do
[00:46:28] Jolene: I did not prepare. I did not prepare a,
[00:46:30] Nicole: It's a weird, it's a weird thing to do. A would you rather? But I was like, you know what?
[00:46:34] Jolene: Okay.
[00:46:35] Nicole: I think it's important. Um, but I wanna give our listener and our viewer a very small exercise. next time you go outside and you're taking a walk, and you can be in New York City. So it might be a little tricky, but I want you for two minutes to walk down the street and say [00:47:00] hello to someone. Make eye contact with them and just say, good morning. You'll be so surprised at how well received you are. We are hungry for connection. We're hungry to belong.
[00:47:20] Jolene: Yep. Okay. Well then go ahead with your, would you rather, would you rather be invisible or be able to fly?
[00:47:46] Jolene: yeah, I think I'd rather, I think I'd rather be able to fly. I, I just think, I mean, I, I think your point of that is probably when people are invisible, they're not, [00:48:00] um, you know, how, how you feel like no one cares about you. You know how. How isolating and, um, and how lonely that must feel. I guess I'll be the freak that flies around.
[00:48:19] Jolene: Oh my gosh, look at
[00:48:20] Nicole: I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly with you. We can fly together. Look at that. Look at
[00:48:28] Jolene: I like it. I mean, okay.
[00:48:33] Jolene: would you rather spend 10 minutes with someone that you agree on everything with, or 10 minutes with someone that you agree on? Nothing with.
[00:48:48] Nicole: You know my answer. 10 minutes on some with someone. I do not agree any with anything with. It's a gift to learn from each other. [00:49:00] We are all so different and we have all so much to share and so much richness inside of us. And if we actually stopped and got curious and were not afraid of the other person, just 'cause they're different than you. 10 minutes. 10 minutes. that's,
[00:49:26] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:49:27] Nicole: it's a gift.
[00:49:28] Jolene: totally agree. Thank you, friend.
[00:49:34] Nicole: Thank you, friend. everybody please take care of yourselves and, uh, stay safe and honor each other's humanity as best as you can.
[00:49:50] Jolene: if you have comments on this episode, please let us know if you need to talk to somebody, if it's me being the conservative or, [00:50:00] or Nicole being the liberal, and you, and you truly are curious about what the other person thinks in a really respectful way, ask a question. Please reach out to us on any of our socials on our website. I think I speak for both of us that we truly value. Your opinions and your thoughts and, and not in a ple. Please don't watch the 10 minutes of our snippet and comment something really derogatory and stupid. You know, I mean, just give yourself a chance to, to know somebody who's different from you and let us know if we can help.
[00:50:40] Nicole: Yes, and we, and we can be your Nicole and Jolene if you need We are your Nicole and
[00:50:47] Nicole: We are your Nicole and Jolene. We are here and we, we have made a commitment. We are. We'll be kind to you. Which is a pretty revolutionary [00:51:00] thing right now, but we will be kind. I love you.
[00:51:06] Jolene: Yep. I love you, friend. Thank you.
[00:51:10] Nicole: Uh, thank you all for listening and uh, just take care.
