Can you be Liberal and Patriotic?
Jolene and I have spent our entire lives looking at the world through completely opposite lenses, but the upcoming 250th birthday of the United States has brought our ideological differences into sharper focus than ever before. As a conservative Republican, Jolene looks at this historic milestone with unshakeable pride, declaring full stop that America remains the greatest nation on earth.
But as a liberal Democrat, my relationship with this milestone is much more conflicted. I find myself holding my breath, anxious about how a deeply divisive political landscape might co-opt the celebration. I found myself asking the question: Can you be liberal and patriotic when even the act of waving a flag feels partisan?
Both of us actually remember the 200th Bicentennial birthday back when we were kids finishing up first grade. There was this pure, unadulterated excitement back then, decorating our bicycles, going to community picnics, and feeling a massive wave of shared national pride. But today, the upcoming milestone feels entirely different for millions of people. As a liberal, I find myself holding my breath, anxious that the celebration will be twisted into a partisan stunt, which makes me want to actively pull patriotism back from the fringes.
Jolene looks at it from the conservative side, full stop: America is still the greatest country on earth. While human history is filled with every country making major mistakes, the beauty of the American experiment is its core belief that everyday people can step up and figure out what is right for each other. Her major concern is a modern version of the Great Forgetting, where a younger generation that has never experienced actual tyranny or world conflict begins to idealize systems outside of a constitutional democracy.
Recent Reuters and Ipsos polling highlights a massive, staggering split between the two parties. The data shows that 68% of Republicans view America as the greatest country in the world, compared to just 38% of Democrats. Ever since the Trump era and events like January 6th, the American flag has been used to divide us, causing many people on the left to feel like embracing national pride somehow means endorsing a specific politician or giving the other side a win.
But a massive, joyful event right outside my building in New York City completely shattered that cynical narrative. Over a million people packed into the streets for the Knicks celebration parade, completely surrounded by ten thousand police officers in a crowd bigger than Times Square on New Year's Eve. There were Republicans, Democrats, and "I don't care-ocrats" squished up against each other for six hours, completely beaming with peaceful, shared happiness.
The exact same thing is happening on social media as international tourists arrive for the World Cup. Visitors from Scotland, Germany, and Japan are posting videos showing their complete shock at how staggeringly nice, clean, and welcoming American cities actually are. Overseas news feeds constantly pump out our worst political division, leaving the rest of the world to assume we are all mean and crazy until they step foot on our soil and experience our real communities.
We are constantly being fed information designed to make us hate each other. The toxic sports culture of modern media has extended directly into our political landscape, transforming healthy team pride into a daily urge to tear the other side limb from limb.
The ultimate course correction for our country is not going to come from a politician, but from a collective, overwhelming demand for basic human decency. We have to stop letting labels dictate our relationships, turn down the partisan volume, and realize that we still have the freedom to speak our minds and move forward together. So go watch the fireworks, eat a hot dog, and don't be afraid to celebrate the fact that this young, fragile experiment is still working.
Graham Platner:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/09/graham-platner-maine-senate-primary
Gallup Polling - Americans Divided:
Stephen Hawkins Episode: https://youtu.be/GpcXMoW2vcg?si=HKs9cacFP8Y1ndei
David French Episode: https://youtu.be/MKss8IcOB-Q
Pro Hamas Protest in NYC? Episode: https://youtu.be/N1ay0AQcT7A?si=CWIPZdVwxYX0dKA3
Stacy Blakeley of Builders Episode: https://youtu.be/DyKi_sy9pko?si=HrbiNvVfUwrb1aT4
Artemis II Crew Flies Around the Moon: https://www.nasa.gov/podcasts/curious-universe/artemis-ii-circles-moon/
Let’s Make a Deal with Monte Hall: https://youtu.be/2UESBk2H62g?si=1CxM67Ig5NuTR3uL
Happy Days Dance Marathon: https://youtu.be/MHA-odJh2Wk?si=Z2mgojJUCLSlpKcN
Lee Greenwood’s God Bless The USA: https://youtu.be/-KoXt9pZLGM?si=mVkUsWggXm--Fb5u
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head but are too scared to say out loud. Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome, Jolene
[00:00:23] Jolene: Thank you, Nicole. Uh, this is such a fun topic. We are talking today about America's 250th birthday, and we're gonna do it from the conservative viewpoint and the liberal viewpoint and see where we agree and see where we may have some different views.
[00:00:43] you wanna start?
[00:00:44] nicole: I do. I'll start
[00:00:45] Jolene: Okay, good.
[00:00:46] nicole: three takeaways
[00:00:47] Jolene: can we just point out to the listener, if you have a chance to watch us on YouTube, you will see little patriotic outfits from both of us.
[00:00:56] I think that's fantastic.
[00:00:58] nicole: do
[00:00:58] Jolene: So if you get a, if you [00:01:00] get a chance to look at us on YouTube, go right ahead.
[00:01:02] nicole: liberal. I am wearing red, and I'm wearing red on
[00:01:05] Jolene: I love it. And you look fantastic in red, by the way
[00:01:09] nicole: and
[00:01:09] Jolene: I know
[00:01:10] nicole: that's part of my takeaways actually. ready?
[00:01:13] Jolene: that, is that you look good in red? Yeah Oh, I'm sorry. Okay
[00:01:18] nicole: Okay. Number one. you and I were around for the 200th birthday. I had just finished first grade. know I was just a kid, I remember decorating my bike, uh, going on a parade, going to a picnic.
[00:01:34] There was so much excitement, so much pride, now feel super conflicted. I'm sort of holding my breath to see what stunt Trump will pull and make it a partisan celebration, I want to take it back. Number two, this democracy thing is a very young, fragile experiment. I think we forget how new we [00:02:00] are, and even with all of our flaws, we still are held up as an ideal to a lot of the world as something to, e-emulate, and that, for the most part, is working. Number three. we're recording on June 18th, Today, this morning, was the Knicks celebration parade, and I happen to live one block east of the Canyon of Heroes. So from 6:00 this morning, there were over a million people crowded around our building. there were 10,000 cops. Uh, it was the biggest event they have ever dealt with, bigger than Times Square on New Year's. The joy that was coming from all of these people, and we're talking about when you're a block away near my building, you can't see the parade, and they didn't care. We walked down, we walked out of our building at 8:30 [00:03:00] in the morning just to check it out, and there were people just smiling, just ready to be squished up against each other and celebrate. They were Republicans. They were Democrats. They were I don't care-ocrats. They don't care. They were all about being happy and joyful, and it just made me think that we are capable of so much more, and that gave me hope that we, as a country, could actually possibly come together
[00:03:30] Jolene: mine are number one, America's the greatest country on earth. I mean Full stop. It, it just, it is. and I know that we've had flaws, I know that we've had trying times, I know that we've done some things that were wrong. I think that's the history of humanity in whatever country has had problems.
[00:03:53] the beauty of America is that it believes in its people, and it believes that the people can figure things out and do [00:04:00] what's right for each other, and I don't... I, I, and I think that we have lost that in some of the, um, some of our more recent political divides.
[00:04:10] I think about the democracy that America is, is still the greatest form of government in the world.
[00:04:18] Number two. I am concerned that the extreme left is trying to change us from a democracy. And as we are celebrating our 250th year and our birthday, it is very concerning, and, and we talked about this, um, with David French, the, the forgetfulness of those people who have never lived in during a time of tyranny or, you know, that experienced the Holocaust and Vietnam and, you know, the, the things of our past, that there's a generation that, didn't live it and aren't, aren't learning about it.
[00:04:55] and I think they're, they're idolizing something other than, than [00:05:00] democracy. Third, it makes me sad that as a liberal you feel like you have to take patriotism back because I think liberals associate patriotism with Trump and not with being an American.
[00:05:16] And I think those two are completely... I, I don't think that those... I think that two things can be true at the same time. I think you can be liberal and a patriot, and, and not like Trump. And, um, so I guess that's three things can be true at the same time. I don't think that Trump has a moratorium on being an American or being prideful, um, being a prideful American
[00:05:40] nicole: I would completely agree with you. I honestly don't know when it started, and I know... Did you see that Mo News, um, I think it was a substack where they, it was a, I don't think Mo News did the poll. Maybe it was
[00:05:53] Jolene: Oh, it was an Ips-
[00:05:54] nicole: Yes.
[00:05:55] Jolene: Reuters and Ipsos poll. Yep
[00:05:57] nicole: and how [00:06:00] literally, I think there is like, I can look it up, but it's like, and forgive me, you guys, I'm gonna just make up some numbers. Okay? But it was like 68% of Republicans think this is the greatest wor- you know, country in the world, and then Democrats were like 38%
[00:06:18] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
[00:06:19] nicole: split.
[00:06:20] Or, Republicans thought that, uh, democracy was doing okay, and again, I'm paraphrasing here, and liberals were like, "No, it's not." Y- you know, w- worried that it was going to be the end. And now that I look at these polls, I s- with, and having done this podcast with you for a year and a half, I don't get as upset as I used to.
[00:06:44] I do know of why they're slanted that way, how we, the information that we're fed. I don't know when it started is what I'm trying to say, with the Trump
[00:06:56] Jolene: patriotic
[00:06:57] nicole: thing. because I feel like [00:07:00] Trump and I'm not talking Republicans, I Feel like Trump used the flag and sort of weaponized it in a way that was very startling for a lot of people, a lot of Democrats, a lot of liberals, where they felt the flag was no longer the American flag.
[00:07:16] It was sort of equated with Trump and the thing, and the things that they felt were hateful that he did.
[00:07:22] Jolene: Go deeper into that because I, I still, I still don't get that. I don't get why the American flag is associated with Trump other than just, I guess, Republicans feel like they're more patriotic, you know,
[00:07:36] nicole: but, but
[00:07:37] Jolene: according to that poll
[00:07:38] nicole: according to that poll. I think there are a couple things. I mean, we're a little flag happy. I'm just gonna say that, and go for it, everybody. Be flag happy. I don't
[00:07:49] Jolene: What? What? I don't know what you're talking about. What?
[00:07:52] nicole: like, and, and I don't mean American flag happy. We love a flag, and in Utah, oh my gosh, y'all, they love a flag.
[00:07:59] [00:08:00] They love a f- any kind of flag. you name the flag. They love a flag. They fly a flag. They fly the American flag. They fly flags. Flags, flags, flags. that's fine, Okay, I can only speak for me. I c- uh, the, the January 6th, I think that was a huge event where people were flying flags the name of liberty and then there would be Trump flags on t- with his face on the American flag. I think it's being used to divide us. listen, I was a little girl. You were a little girl in the 200th. I'm sure that there were people that probably were s- struggling with, I don't even know what was happening when we were kids. It seemed like everybody was really excited to celebrate 200 years, and now there's this feeling of, I don't even know how to explain this, Jolene, because I know thi- I, I now know things I, I didn't know even a year and a half [00:09:00] ago. Like,
[00:09:00] Jolene: I don't
[00:09:01] nicole: blame Republicans for what's going on in this country.
[00:09:05] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:09:06] nicole: I know how little, how little say that we actually have, even though we are doing our best to vote and rise up and speak for what we want and what we need, but I do think we have someone in office right now that is doing everything they can to make sure that it's us against them. And I think it- that's a shame. I, I, in that way, I agree with you. I have friends that, you know, feel that they you know, don't wanna be here on July 4th, which I think is quite
[00:09:47] Jolene: extreme
[00:09:49] nicole: uh, but it's how they feel.
[00:09:51] Jolene: Do you have liberal friends who don't want to fly a f- an American flag? That wouldn't put a flag up in front of their house in a [00:10:00] flagpole?
[00:10:00] nicole: it's so interesting because again, Utah, they love a flag. And, we have a lovely neighbor, uh, Corey. Shout out Corey. I guess normally Memorial Day, he flies flags, and he has flags for all of his neighbors. but he forgot to fly the flag on Memorial Day. So Flag Day, which was last Sunday, he was like, "Can we fly the flag?"
[00:10:24] And I remember the first time he asked me, and several years ago, it was before our podcast, and I do remember feeling a little nervous. but I'm like, "Sure." And I have... my next door neighbors are gay, and they love their pride flag, it's so important to them to fly their flag, their pride flag and the American flag,
[00:10:50] in, in their words, they're taking it back because I guess they f- have felt threatened, which it's... I'm not surprised. I mean, there's been a lot of [00:11:00] hateful rhetoric coming at this point from both sides. I'm not naive. Like, people are doing their very best to stay in power and keep us hating each other. But I just know from th- this Knicks event that nothing happened. It was peaceful. There were over a million people for six, seven hours just beaming with joy that we are capable of celebrating. And you know,
[00:11:31] Jolene: Okay
[00:11:32] nicole: Joe, because the biggest celebration is gonna be in New York City on July 4th. going to be fireworks on... Usually the fireworks happen, there are two... For those of you that don't know, there are two rivers that flank Manhattan. usually every year, the July 4th fireworks, they alternate so that sometimes it's the Hudson River, and so the west side of the city and New Jersey have the prime view. And [00:12:00] then sometimes it's the East River, which is the east side of the city, and Brooklyn have the prime view.
[00:12:05] Well, this July 4th, the 250th birthday, they are going to just overwhelm the city and everyone that watches on television with fireworks, and there's going to be firework boats from all sides of the city. I just find us filled with contradiction
[00:12:22] Jolene: I still don't get what's, what the contradiction is. Okay, wait. do you feel like if you embrace patriotism that you're giving Trump some power?
[00:12:35] nicole: Yes. And it's not patriotism. That word's too big.
[00:12:39] Jolene: Okay
[00:12:40] nicole: word's
[00:12:40] Jolene: Pride, American pride
[00:12:42] because my question is, is there a feeling of, letting the other side win if you, um, embrace, um, pride in your country when they're in power? So if, you know, I, I don't think that when [00:13:00] Biden was in power, Republicans would have not flown the flag. You know what I mean?
[00:13:06] nicole: Agreed
[00:13:07] Jolene: okay, so that's why I'm trying to dial in on
[00:13:10] nicole: think it's about the flag, and I don't think it's about even Republicans. I think it's about Trump. I think a lot of people are really upset about how Trump has conducted himself and how he... We are a government of the people, by the people, for the people, and I am totally aware, after doing this, this podcast with you, and then talking to people like Steven Hawkins, who is, you know, the, we just aired a couple weeks ago, who, um, what an amazing human being he is, and so filled with,
[00:13:45] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Hope.
[00:13:46] nicole: and hope. But, you
[00:13:48] Jolene: Yeah
[00:13:48] nicole: from a conservative background, swung left and swung to the middle and swung, swung, swung. Like, he's filled with all kinds of things, as we all are. No one is perfectly [00:14:00] right and perfectly
[00:14:01] Jolene: Yeah
[00:14:01] nicole: So It's funny, Jolene, I, I'm, I'm having this moment because that night... Didn't share with, with you completely, I sort of mentioned it to you the other day. had a, a person on YouTube comment, and I don't know what country they were from, but I know they were from the Middle East. And The episode was actually about the pro- the pro-Hamas, protests in Manhattan, were talking about, you know, how does this happen? and this person, I don't know if they were a man or a woman, I have no idea, but they were really angry. And how dare we as Americans, we don't understand. And, um, they were talking about Iran and how it's a very sophisticated country. And I was writing them... I was just trying to honestly understand what was happening, and I was like, "Hold on. [00:15:00] This is, this episode is about this. Did you get a chance to watch it?" "Well, I couldn't get through it because you Western commentators are so arrogant, and that, you know, this is what's happening and this is what's happening, and people are getting killed." And I stopped and I said We understand you. We, like, hold on. not what this conversation was about. And, and, I was having this moment of, like, a minute, we are not our leaders. And I think we all, as the world, forget that. Like, meaning yes, we, we voted him in, everything he does, that doesn't mean that that's who we are. it made me... And to the point where this person said, "Would you bear with me? 'Cause you guys seem nice." And I thought, [00:16:00] "Wow, this is amazing." 'Cause I kept thinking about, I kept thinking about Israel. I kept thinking about the, the rise in antisemitism and thinking about Bibi Netanyahu doing whatever he wants to do, and that doesn't mean that the Israelis agree with what Bibi is doing. How many millions of people are there in this country? we vote our leaders in, and we hope they represent us, but a lot of the times there's dealings. We don't know what's going on. I mean, and we're learning, you and I are learning. I don't know if I'm making sense. But, but in terms of the patriotism thing, I am, I'm proud to be, I'm proud to do this podcast. am proud to, raise these questions with you and able to and try and understand. Um, want to be... Here's, here's the, here's the thing. I want to be proud. [00:17:00] And,
[00:17:00] Jolene: Okay
[00:17:01] nicole: and I think I've always been totally fine flying the flag until now
[00:17:10] Jolene: Okay, so when you say that you are proud of this country, give me some things that, that you're proud of
[00:17:17] nicole: I am proud that are able to pretty much speak our minds, even if we... I, I am proud of free speech. I'm a prou- I'm proud of women, um, having the vote. I'm proud of being able to, um, publicly discuss things that might not be popular and not get arrested for it. I'm proud that millions of people can gather in New York City and not hurt each other
[00:17:50] Jolene: Okay. I would agree with all those. Those, those would be my answers as well, yeah.
[00:17:54] nicole: what are you proud of?
[00:17:56] Jolene: Yeah, I, I mean, I would say all of those things too. I mean, I would, I [00:18:00] would say that, um, I'm proud that, that we have given the power to everyday people and that we have built a country on the backs of everyday people, not kings, not...
[00:18:15] I know. I, I know we're gonna get pushback about the oligarchy and the blah, blah, blah.
[00:18:20] nicole: we are too.
[00:18:22] Jolene: But
[00:18:22] nicole: Jolene that even that Stacy said in that e- episode, about like how few people vote
[00:18:30] Jolene: Right. That is, that is absolutely, you know, I, I was just listening earlier while I was in the car about that Washington DC is now going to have a socialist mayor, who has taken a page out of the Mum Donny playbook. And I think the, so the, the, um, elections must have been yesterday.
[00:18:50] and it's like, okay, how... But, but again, the percentage of people that voted was 8%.
[00:18:57] nicole: Right.
[00:18:57] Jolene: So like how the-
[00:18:59] nicole: is like, I don't mean to [00:19:00] interrupt you, but I just, I have to. Like, the label socialist and all of that, like I live in New York City, Mom Dani's been here. happened.
[00:19:11] Jolene: Well, except that sh- she was, she was a Democratic socialist. I mean, she is the... I mean, that, that is her, her party. And so is that, is that the new Democratic Party? Is that,
[00:19:23] nicole: No.
[00:19:23] Jolene: is, because it's got a Democrat in the name, does that make Democrats think that Democratic socialist is a Democrat? I mean, that's,
[00:19:34] nicole: There are
[00:19:35] Jolene: w-
[00:19:35] nicole: many people in this country, and there's so... I don't think that all Republicans are Trump.
[00:19:42] Jolene: Yeah, right
[00:19:43] nicole: So to be a Democratic socialist, fine, but you have to have everyone to agree. Like, it's... For, and by the way, this was a... And I already said this to you, but I'm gonna say this to our audience. I do voiceovers, a lot of voiceovers, [00:20:00] and I will do political voiceovers.
[00:20:02] And I usually, I, I have never actually been asked to do a Republican, um, voiceover, to be honest with you. But this morning, amidst the whole crazy of the Knicks, um, parade, I got an email, uh, to... And it was like, "This is a tight turnaround, Nicole. you know, and if you don't wanna do it, it's okay." And it was f- it was to voice a Graham Platner ad. And
[00:20:31] Jolene: Ah!
[00:20:32] nicole: I wrote h- her back and I said, "You know that I will voice almost any Democrat." I said, "But I have to be true to myself, and I think he's a creep, and I'm going to pass." she wrote back and was like, "I wholeheartedly agree with this decision." And I
[00:20:53] Jolene: Wow
[00:20:54] nicole: never, I have... I've never turned down a Democrat.
[00:20:59] But I'm like, [00:21:00] this is my stand. And, and I can be a progressive,
[00:21:04] Jolene: you.
[00:21:04] nicole: can be a
[00:21:04] Jolene: Yep
[00:21:05] nicole: but I have to stand up for what I believe,
[00:21:08] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:21:09] nicole: with. Just like I
[00:21:10] Jolene: Yeah
[00:21:10] nicole: anybody that's listening and watching to also. Like, and I guess that's... I think what I'm uncomfortable with is all the labeling, and I think we do it to hate each other. Like somehow you're t- you know that there's this Democratic socialist that is now the... She won the primary, She's a
[00:21:31] Jolene: But I think she's running unopposed.
[00:21:33] nicole: I think so. But
[00:21:34] Jolene: Yeah
[00:21:35] nicole: know, there's a lot of... I guess what I'm trying to say, there's l- like, just like Mom Dani, like he, he's a Democratic socialist, I guess, but he's running New York City, and changed, you guys. Like, it's just such a beast. Like, there's a lot of people in the pot, they, that have to stir
[00:21:53] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:21:53] nicole: make it run.
[00:21:55] Jolene: Yeah
[00:21:55] nicole: you know, and I n- and I heard that, like, Trump threatened to [00:22:00] not let her be the mayor or something if she wins. And
[00:22:02] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah
[00:22:03] nicole: come on. This is a democracy, y'all.
[00:22:08] Jolene: okay. All right. Let's get back on track. Let's talk about happier things. Well, I just think that this is a time for celebration and for, you know, to, to have pride and, and to think about all the things that we're thankful about for being born into this country. a- and so I think that it should be a celebration.
[00:22:29] nicole: You know what I think it is, and, and liberals, you know, I'm sure you're gonna push back, but I think maybe people on the left are afraid to celebrate because it makes them seem like they've given up, that they can't have more. And I'm thinking to myself right now, like, why can't we celebrate and keep going?
[00:22:51] Jolene: Yeah, right
[00:22:52] nicole: why can't we all, you know, be excited about that this country still exists?
[00:22:59] Jolene: [00:23:00] Yeah
[00:23:00] nicole: still, is still working. Even if you hate it, you have, you have the freedom to say that you hate it. Most
[00:23:09] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:23:10] nicole: So
[00:23:11] Jolene: Yeah
[00:23:11] nicole: s- I'm encouraging all the people on the left that might be listening to not be afraid to be proud of this country, to, to take it back.
[00:23:21] It's not giving up, it's moving forward, and
[00:23:24] Jolene: And you're not, and you're not endorsing Trump by being an American. I think that's the other, the thing that I, I keep thinking about is that do liberals just feel like if they, if they fly the American flag or if they celebrate the Fourth of July or God forbid if they have fun on the Fourth and watch fireworks and eat a hot dog that they're endorsing Trump?
[00:23:47] No. No, no, no
[00:23:49] I have loved, loved, loved watching all of these videos on Instagram of the people [00:24:00] coming for the World Cup coming to America, the, um... And experiencing America for themselves. And w- to your point earlier, one of the things that, that I heard, um, I, I think it was a Scottish guy say, was, " You know, we didn't, we didn't know what to expect when we were coming to America, because all we get in our news is all the political crap.
[00:24:25] And so now that we've come here and we get to experience these cities, it has absolutely been..." I think, like, the Scots are in Boston, and so it showed them, like, in a bar and they're singing Sweet Caroline, and they're all excited. And I've, um, in Lawrence, Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas has, um, kind of adopted a team from Algiers.
[00:24:50] nicole: Of course
[00:24:50] Jolene: And so even though nobody from Lawrence, Kansas is from Algiers, Algiers? Algeria. No, Algiers. like, [00:25:00] they were up until 3:00 in the morning. Like, they flew... Like, the team, the soccer team flew into the Kansas City Airport, then had about an hour drive, 45-minute drive to Lawrence on these buses. They had weather delays or delays of some sort, so they didn't actually get into Lawrence, and Lawrence is the home of the University of Kansas, so it's a college town, but it's fairly small.
[00:25:19] And all... I mean, there were, like, hundreds of people out in the streets welcoming the buses with Algiers flags and stuff, and they're going, "What? Who? We have fans here?" I mean, it's been so great. Uh, last night, um, Callie, my daughter, sent me a TikTok of, and I don't know where they were from, maybe Germans that were in, um, Fort Worth, and they did all the...
[00:25:43] You know, they went to the stockyards, and they went to Billy Bob's, and they ate barbe- The Japanese, the Japanese that bring their own garbage sacks to the stadiums and clean up, And I've never been a World Cup person. I don't know anything about soccer. I don't know that I've ever seen an entire [00:26:00] soccer match.
[00:26:01] But I, I might become one now, just because I love that all of these countries are getting to experience other countries and, and that they wouldn't have normally done, but they're doing it because of a sporting event, which you know I love. and they're getting to, to see America that they maybe wouldn't have chosen to come to America.
[00:26:24] And maybe they wouldn't have chosen to come to America because of all the bad press of America right now, right?
[00:26:30] nicole: I
[00:26:31] Jolene: And so
[00:26:31] nicole: what Josh was saying, and I haven't seen it myself, but that, that a, that a lot of the world that's coming here is like, "Oh my God, America's so nice." Like, the
[00:26:40] Jolene: Right?
[00:26:41] nicole: the places are nice, and I'm thinking, well, what are they being fed? Like, we are g- we are being fed to each other to hate each other, and then what are they being fed? 'Cause we- 'cause then we're all crazy and mean
[00:26:56] Jolene: 100%.
[00:26:57] nicole: I mean, New
[00:26:58] Jolene: Yep
[00:26:58] nicole: always got that sort [00:27:00] of, label, which I always thought was funny when people would come, and especially in the subway, and I've said this to you before. They, they're,
[00:27:06] Jolene: Yeah
[00:27:07] nicole: so, like, scared and clean. And, and then they, like, kinda look around, and everyone's so nice, and they're like, "Oh my God."
[00:27:14] Well, now it seems like it's, like, the entire country,
[00:27:18] Jolene: Yeah. Right. A-
[00:27:19] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:20] Jolene: and so you just, you see the goodness in people's hearts, you know? And, and that i- i- whether it's somebody coming to America or the Americans e- embracing another country, and you think, "Wow, we can do this for another country, but we can't do it for our own?" You know? I-
[00:27:36] nicole: the other thing, is that even today, and I know I keep talking about the next thing, but it was crazy, y'all. It
[00:27:40] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:27:41] nicole: so, it was so wild to see all these people, all kinds of people, and everyone, there was this feeling of such incredible excitement. everyone had care. It was a lot of people, right? And so they didn't- they wanted- you could- you had this feeling, like, to make sure no one [00:28:00] got hurt. Like, there was this... And I'm thinking, "Well, why aren't, why don't we do that for each other?"
[00:28:05] Jolene: Right?
[00:28:06] nicole: Like,
[00:28:06] Jolene: Right
[00:28:07] nicole: if we s- c- because again, what are we being fed? Because we've talked about it, you and I, a bazillion times.
[00:28:13] We've talked with many guests. We just talked about it with Steven, that when you sit down and talk to someone that doesn't think like you, that doesn't look like you, that doesn't believe, quote-unquote, what you believe, you find out that
[00:28:25] Jolene: Yeah
[00:28:26] nicole: have so much in common.
[00:28:30] Jolene: Yeah. Yep
[00:28:31] nicole: oh, you wanna give less money to, to defense.
[00:28:36] Okay. wanna give, you know, more money to, uh, change. Okay. Like, why is it,
[00:28:45] Jolene: Right
[00:28:46] nicole: become such issues that we wanna tear each other from limb to limb,
[00:28:50] You know, and I'm also thinking it's interesting, Joe, that isn't it interesting that Trump is the president on our 250th? Like, it [00:29:00] could be
[00:29:00] Jolene: Why?
[00:29:01] nicole: Because
[00:29:01] Jolene: Oh.
[00:29:02] nicole: a divisive dude. Like, meaning... I mean, I just, I just find it wild that this is, it's happening now with this guy.
[00:29:11] Jolene: uh, but he has made such a big deal about the 250th, right? I mean, he's been making it a big deal and But who's to say that Kamala wouldn't have made the 250th a big deal, you know? I mean,
[00:29:21] nicole: made it a big deal,
[00:29:22] Jolene: right
[00:29:23] nicole: but I think, you know, let's... I'm trying
[00:29:26] Jolene: She wouldn't have had a UFC fight?
[00:29:28] nicole: you. I
[00:29:28] Jolene: I
[00:29:30] nicole: her birthday?" Um, yeah. Yeah,
[00:29:31] Jolene: will hand that one to you.
[00:29:33] nicole: That one I was like, "Do we talk about it?" But yeah, that, that, yeah. That was, and listen, I was the one that watched it.
[00:29:40] You didn't, and I
[00:29:41] Jolene: I can't believe you watched it. You were texting me and I'm like, "Why are you watching this?"
[00:29:45] nicole: wanted
[00:29:45] Jolene: Like, "Why put yourself through that?"
[00:29:47] nicole: and honestly, I watched the first fight, and I, and it was rain delayed or weather delayed, or they were worried about weather. So wanted to see, especially 'cause we're doing this podcast, wanted to [00:30:00] see, well, I can't just be mad about it without seeing what it is, right?
[00:30:04] I wanted to investigate.
[00:30:05] and it was just honestly bizarre more than anything. I was like, "Why are these, why are there fight mats in the White House?" Like, it just, it was so weird.
[00:30:16] Jolene: You are, you're a big traveler,
[00:30:18] nicole: Yes
[00:30:19] Jolene: so when you travel abroad and you say that you are from America, that you're an American, what have you generally experienced as, as a response to that?
[00:30:30] nicole: I don't say I'm American,
[00:30:34] Jolene: But don't people kind of figure it out?
[00:30:35] nicole: course.
[00:30:36] Jolene: No
[00:30:37] nicole: not like, um, it's not like I, I don't necessarily wanna advertise it, which is
[00:30:45] Jolene: Oh
[00:30:46] nicole: know. I knew you wouldn't like that answer. Um, but ever since, ever since the Trump era, it's been a little bit trickier. I mean, Josh and I love to travel and, [00:31:00] and for the most part we're really kind.
[00:31:02] So it's, it's just,
[00:31:04] Jolene: Well, yes.
[00:31:05] nicole: it's a just a nice experience. But I think we're very aware of what, quote-unquote, "American" means right now. Like just what you were saying about these
[00:31:15] Jolene: Hmm
[00:31:15] nicole: coming from the World Cup, learning, oh my gosh, people are really nice, and they're really welcoming, and they're, they're not like the horrible things I'm seeing on TikTok, you know?
[00:31:26] And
[00:31:26] Jolene: Right
[00:31:27] nicole: I think we're just hyper-aware of it, let's just say.
[00:31:31] Jolene: So, okay, when people figure it out though, are they like, "Oh my gosh, I would love to go to America," or, "Ew, ew, you're-"
[00:31:38] nicole: No. I mean, the New York thing is a bonus. People want to talk about New
[00:31:47] Jolene: Hmm
[00:31:47] nicole: go to New York. They're fascinated by it. Yeah, I've never had anyone be like, "Ew." They're more excited about, " Well, tell me
[00:31:56] Jolene: Okay, s- so then how does that make you feel then?
[00:31:59] nicole: like I [00:32:00] said, I guess I said in my first takeaway, I feel very conflicted because I'm proud of the city, I'm of a- so many people in this country. and I know that we are not this one guy. it's really sweet when people are psyched about America.
[00:32:16] Like, I'm so psyched to be there wherever I'm visiting, like Cambodia or Japan or... But I'm also very aware, like a place like Cambodia that's gone through, I mean, so- every country's gone through so much. But a place like Cambodia, um, if anyone has a chance to go, it's the most beautiful country, um, most beautiful people. You know, talk about, like, the, the incredible hope really devastating circumstances. again, I'm gonna sound like a total cornball. I just believe in humans. When you sit down and talk to them, I believe in the... I
[00:32:56] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:32:57] nicole: humans. I believe that we all really [00:33:00] want more
[00:33:01] Jolene: haven't traveled, um, as much out of the country, well, I mean, really very few times. And so I just hear from people that have, like everyone, and especially younger people from other countries are like, "Ugh, I so wanna save enough money to go to America.
[00:33:19] I so..." You know, everybody sees that American dream and wants, wants a piece of it, wants it for themselves, and that's gotta feel, make you feel so good
[00:33:29] nicole: mean, I don't know if it's... I think I see it more, and maybe it's just 'cause I'm an actor, but it feels like it's more of a movie lens, like people get excited about. Like, "I
[00:33:38] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:33:38] nicole: LA. I wanna go to New York."
[00:33:40] Jolene: Yeah
[00:33:40] nicole: places that they've seen in the movies.
[00:33:43] I wanna meet a cowboy." this is a controversial topic 'cause we talk about immigration a lot, lot of people try to come to this country.
[00:33:51] Jolene: Right. Yeah.
[00:33:52] nicole: of people, It's not always easy to get here for them. And so I think to myself, [00:34:00] gosh, not only how, how bad is it where you are, and what do you hope that we have?"
[00:34:07] Jolene: Yeah. You and I talked about this during the Artemis, um, flight that, uh, you know, their perspective was just so moving because here were these four, you know, three Americans and a Canadian?
[00:34:23] nicole: Yeah.
[00:34:24] Jolene: they literally could see the whole world. And for them to have the perspective of, like, just how lucky we are, not just to be humans, but that we lived in, in America, like, what...
[00:34:37] Uh, that, that perspective of, you know, being able to look at it from, I mean, really a 30,000-feet view or a 30,000-mile view in their, f- in their, i- in this instance. But, you know, to be able to say, you know, t- to look outside of, of their lens and be able to say, you know, have pride and, [00:35:00] and be excited to be Americans, really cool
[00:35:02] nicole: in that moment, yeah, I've, I was super proud. So proud.
[00:35:08] Jolene: and so I think I, you and I had talked about that, I mean, I see it during the Olympics, or you see it during the, what's the golf, the Ryder Cup or, I think it's the Ryder Cup. No, 'cause that's just American, m- well, for the most part. But no, it's like when, uh, when countries are competing against each other, like then everybody in America is for America, you know?
[00:35:31] And,
[00:35:31] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:32] Jolene: and I love that, um, you know, like you said, e- experiencing today the Knicks parade, but that was, you know, two American teams against each other, but, you know, every- wasn't everybody a Knicks fan today? I mean, you know, to, to celebrate for, for that. but, you know, during these events, these sporting events, like sports is such a uniting event, you know?
[00:35:56] That we can get behind, that we can forget everything [00:36:00] else and we're focused on the, the event right in front of us, and how it's, it, some use it as an escape, some use it as a sense of pride, some, you know, to cheer and be happy about something, and to root for a winner and hope that you were the winner.
[00:36:16] I, yeah, I love, I love obviously coming from a sports-minded family. But, you know, I just, I think again, it's pride
[00:36:24] nicole: Why can't we all win?
[00:36:26] Jolene: we've talked about this, that this, this whole sports analogy extends into politics, and we want to root for the winner, and we want the winner to beat the loser. And then we've taken it so not just in a football game, and then we all, you know, go home and live the rest of our lives for a week until the next football game.
[00:36:50] In politics, it transcends into every single day, and every time you ge- pick up your phone, and every bumper [00:37:00] sticker that you see that may trigger you. Or, you know, i- it's just, you've gone from feeling prideful for your team to hating the other team, and that's where, um, I think that's the difference between sports and, and politics
[00:37:14] nicole: But at least in the Olympics, then we all come together. 'Cause I guess we're, 'cause we have another
[00:37:20] Jolene: 'Cause we're all cheering for the right team, yeah
[00:37:22] nicole: need an enemy
[00:37:24] Jolene: maybe that is. You have to have an enemy in order to,
[00:37:28] nicole: You have to have something to bump up
[00:37:30] Jolene: coalesce.
[00:37:31] nicole: right? Like,
[00:37:32] Jolene: Yeah
[00:37:32] nicole: Steven, uh, when we interviewed him, he talked about AI and how that we're all anxious about AI,
[00:37:39] Jolene: Yeah
[00:37:39] nicole: that that was something that could be something that we all come together and bu- bump against.
[00:37:46] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah
[00:37:47] nicole: sure that we're all okay?
[00:37:49] Jolene: Yeah
[00:37:50] nicole: about, like, that it's been those moments of serious tragedy where we come together.
[00:37:58] Jolene: Mm-hmm
[00:37:59] nicole: be, I [00:38:00] mean, other than the Knicks winning, could there be something else that we come together I wanna believe, and maybe this is totally naive, that, that there are a large group of us that would like decency again
[00:38:14] Jolene: I think that is going to be the thing that tr- that turns all of this around is decency.
[00:38:21] nicole: decency
[00:38:23] Jolene: I, I think we've, we're going to get to a point where that is the number one quality of a human being that will make people stand up and say, "Yeah, that's what I want." And, and not that you feel this way about climate change or abortion or whatever.
[00:38:43] It's, okay, we need decency
[00:38:46] nicole: we need decency. And I wonder how we motivate people, and it's not just young people, it's, uh, it's, because you just said that 8% voted in the primary for mayor in DC. How do we motivate people, all [00:39:00] people, Democrats, Independents, people that have never voted before because they're just not into it? How do they get excited about voting for decency?
[00:39:10] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:39:11] nicole: Like, we have the power.
[00:39:13] Jolene: Yep
[00:39:13] nicole: make sure that we don't, and get us defeated, and keep us on each other's side screaming at each other, but we know, you in your American flag shirt, and me in my red shirt even though I'm a blue, I guess, we have the power
[00:39:28] Jolene: 100%.
[00:39:29] nicole: Listen,
[00:39:30] Jolene: Happy birthday, America
[00:39:31] nicole: birthday, America. do you have a would you rather?
[00:39:36] Jolene: Oh, I got a good one
[00:39:37]
[00:39:42] Jolene: Would you rather pull a country out of a box and have to live there for three years And it's all countries. Like, all countries have put their name in this box, have put a slip of paper. So how many [00:40:00] countries are there? Like, isn't there 167 countries or something, or 137 countries?
[00:40:05] nicole: no
[00:40:05] Jolene: so every country is in this box.
[00:40:08] nicole: ma'am And I
[00:40:11] Jolene: So would you rather pull a country out of a box and have to live there for three years,
[00:40:15] nicole: Okay
[00:40:16] Jolene: stay in America?
[00:40:17] nicole: Well, part of me likes the adventure of the box
[00:40:21] Jolene: knew you were gonna say that but
[00:40:24] nicole: because it's like, um, was it Let's Make a Deal, door number one, door number
[00:40:28] Jolene: Yeah, yeah
[00:40:29] nicole: when pro- probably I watched it during the 200th ann- 200th birthday when I was six
[00:40:34] Jolene: Yes. Yeah
[00:40:36] nicole: that idea of like, "And you might pull back the curtain and there's a donkey.
[00:40:40] Might be there,"
[00:40:40] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:40:41] nicole: be
[00:40:41] Jolene: Right.
[00:40:42] nicole: for three years.
[00:40:43] Jolene: Yeah
[00:40:45] nicole: oh gosh I like my life.
[00:40:50] Jolene: Oh, yay
[00:40:52] nicole: I like my life, I also wanna see what's in that box.
[00:40:57] Jolene: Okay, but see,
[00:40:58] nicole: But I,
[00:40:59] Jolene: you could pull [00:41:00] out
[00:41:00] nicole: understand what you're trying
[00:41:01] Jolene: Kazakhstan or something, you know? I mean, y- yeah, but it might be a
[00:41:08] nicole: might be
[00:41:08] Jolene: of wars. I mean, yeah.
[00:41:11] nicole: now, right?
[00:41:12] Jolene: Yeah
[00:41:14] nicole: All right. What would... I guess you would choose staying in America. Is that fair to
[00:41:18] Jolene: 100%, yep.
[00:41:20] nicole: Okay
[00:41:21] Jolene: And not that I don't wanna travel. Of course I wanna travel
[00:41:24] nicole: But it's funny that that's very consistent the way we both answered.
[00:41:28] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:41:28] nicole: I know.
[00:41:30] Jolene: Yeah
[00:41:31] nicole: So mine is more about birthdays
[00:41:34] Jolene: Oh, okay
[00:41:35] nicole: Miss America 250.
[00:41:38] Jolene: Yes
[00:41:38] nicole: Would you rather have everyone you love your birthday, or everyone you love sing Happy Birthday to you for 24 hours straight?
[00:41:55] Jolene: Oh, God
[00:41:57] nicole: Happy birthday, [00:42:00] America.
[00:42:00] Jolene: Oh, that would be so sad if everybody forgot your birthday
[00:42:06] I'm, I'm gonna have to put that aside 'cause I do not want... Number one, I'm not gonna ask everybody I love to sing Happy Birthday for 24 hours. Like, have they recorded it and can just play it on
[00:42:16] nicole: no
[00:42:16] Jolene: if they have to do it? Yeah, I'm not gonna do that to them.
[00:42:19] nicole: Do
[00:42:19] Jolene: So I'll just have everybody forget my birthday
[00:42:21] nicole: Happy Days episode where, and I guess they, it was a thing that they did in the '50s, they'd have those dance- dance-a-thons where
[00:42:28] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:42:29] nicole: like, 24 hours and they're, like, hanging off of each other? That's what it made me think of. I was like, that's what all of your friends are gonna be like, "Happy birthday."
[00:42:38] Jolene: Happy
[00:42:38] nicole: that's very generous of you, 'cause I would be like, "Sing it. Sing it, people.
[00:42:42] Jolene: Sing it again. Sing it again.
[00:42:47] Oh,
[00:42:49] nicole: All
[00:42:49] Jolene: that's good.
[00:42:50] nicole: Oh, Jolene.
[00:42:52] Jolene: Well, thank you everybody for joining us on this, uh, on this episode of We've Got to Talk. Please go enjoy [00:43:00] yourself. Enjoy being an American,
[00:43:02] nicole: Enjoy.
[00:43:03] Jolene: that means. Go and eat a hot dog, go have a picnic in a park, watch some fireworks, um, eat some ice cream, go to a game, go on a boat ride.
[00:43:16] Yes.
[00:43:16] nicole: enjoy yourself
[00:43:18] Jolene: Yeah
[00:43:19] nicole: to know that you're free
[00:43:21] Jolene: Yeah. Yep. It's g- our country's got a lot of faults, but dang it, it's still the best country there is
[00:43:28] nicole: says the American flag-wearing lady
[00:43:31] Jolene: And I'm proud to be an American
[00:43:34] nicole: Josh knew you were gonna sing that song. He knew
[00:43:37] Jolene: Oh my gosh. Yep.
[00:43:38] nicole: you go.
[00:43:39] Jolene: Greenwood, how can you not?
[00:43:40] nicole: right. Happy
[00:43:42] Jolene: Thanks everybody.
[00:43:43] nicole: Thank you so
[00:43:43] Jolene: Happy birthday. Bye-bye
[00:43:46]
