Australia’s Under-16 Social Media Ban vs. US Bell-to-Bell Phone Bans in Schools
Technology is everywhere now, and if you’re a parent, teacher, aunt, uncle, or just a human with eyeballs, you’ve probably felt the same tension we have. The virtual world is incredible. It is also relentless. It connects us, distracts us, comforts us, hijacks us, and then has the audacity to ask if we would like to turn on notifications.
I’m Nicole, and I’m here with Jolene. We sit on opposite sides of the political aisle, but this topic is one of those rare ones that makes the usual labels feel a bit useless. Whether you are liberal, conservative, or somewhere in the exhausted middle, most of us are staring at the same problem: kids are growing up inside a digital ecosystem that adults barely understand, and we are trying to build guardrails while the car is already speeding down the highway.
Two big stories have been sitting with us lately. Australia is moving to ban social media for kids under 16, and U.S. schools rolling out “bell to bell” phone bans. Different countries, different approaches, same underlying question. Are we finally admitting that the current setup is not working?
Australia’s move is bold, and no doubt will have some hiccups along the way. A ban on social media for under-16s across major platforms is not a gentle nudge. It is a statement. It says, we are not going to pretend this is harmless anymore. And part of me respects that. Not because I think a ban magically fixes the problem, but because it forces the conversation out into the open. It tells parents, schools, and tech companies that this is not just “kids being kids.” This is a public health and development issue, and adults have to stop ignoring the problem.
Jolene’s take is practical. The Australian government seems pretty open about the fact that enforcement will be messy and there will be loopholes. They are not pretending it will be perfect. They are saying, we are going to try anyway. And that matters, because sometimes policy is not just about catching every single kid who sneaks around the rules. Sometimes it is about shifting the norm. It is about signalling that constant, unsupervised access to algorithm-driven platforms is not a childhood right. It is a risk.
Then you look at what is happening in U.S. schools and it feels like another version of the same awakening. More states and districts are pushing for phone-free school days. Not “put it on silent.” Not “keep it in your bag.” Actual bell-to-bell bans. And again, it is not because adults hate technology. It is because teachers are watching attention, learning, and social skills get shredded in real time.
When phones are removed from the classroom equation, something wonderful happens. Kids start acting like kids again. They talk. They play. They make eye contact. Teachers report fewer distractions. Students seem more present. It is not a miracle cure for every educational problem, but it is a reminder of something we have all forgotten. The default human setting is not scrolling.
Underneath both of these stories is the part nobody can outsource. Parenting. Not in the judgmental, “good parents do this” way. In the reality-based way. Schools can ban phones for seven hours a day, but kids still go home to devices. Governments can ban social media for those under 16, but kids are clever, and the internet is slippery. So the real question becomes, what are we teaching at home? What are we modelling? What are we allowing because it is easier in the short term, even if it costs us in the long term?
Jolene told me about a family friend whose kids do not have phones, and what stood out was not some moral superiority. It was the side effect. Those kids became more resourceful. More independent. They learned how to be bored without panicking. They learned how to navigate the world without needing a digital pacifier. And that is not anti-tech. That is pro-life skills.
At the same time, we both agree on something that gets missed in the ban conversation. Banning is not the same as teaching. If we remove phones and social media without giving kids a framework for using technology responsibly, we are just delaying the problem. They will still enter a world where screens are everywhere. They will still need to understand privacy, manipulation, attention, addiction, and digital identity. They will still need to know how to spot misinformation, handle online conflict, and protect their mental health.
So maybe the real opportunity here is bigger than bans. Maybe it is digital education that is actually honest. Not “be careful online” posters. Real digital citizenship. Real media literacy. Real conversations about how platforms are designed, what algorithms reward, and why self-control feels harder than it used to. Not because kids are weak, but because the system is engineered to keep them hooked.
Where we land is not “bans are the answer” or “bans are evil.” It is simpler than that. We are glad adults are finally trying something. We are glad schools are drawing lines. We are glad governments are admitting this is not just a personal choice issue. It is a structural one.
And maybe the most uncomfortable truth is this. This is not only about kids. It is about us, too. Our own digital dependency. Our own reflex to reach for a screen when we feel bored, anxious, lonely, or overwhelmed. We cannot teach balance if we are modelling addiction.
So we want to hear from you. If you are a parent, a teacher, a student, or someone who has watched your attention span change over the last decade, what do you think works? Do bans help? Do they backfire? What would real digital education look like in your world?
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-19/roblox-brings-in-age-checks-ahead-of-australian-ban/106025742
Good for the Soul:
https://www.instagram.com/weatheradam/?hl=en
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:21] Welcome to, we've got to talk. Hello, Jolene.
[00:00:24] Jolene: hello Nicole. Welcome to, we've Got To Talk. Today we are talking about the Australian social media ban and the US cell phone ban in schools. And I think this is a great topic to hear from both sides and see what our views are on this, from a Republican and a Democrat.
[00:00:44] nicole: This was originally a topic that Brianna, our producer, uh, sent us. She was super excited that Australia was taking the lead on this. The ban, for 16 and under covered Facebook, [00:01:00] Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, X YouTube, Reddit, Twitch kick and threads. and she sent us a bunch of articles which. they'd interviewed these teenagers that were very pissed off and very savvy, and what I appreciated in the articles, and I think just maybe it's the Australian way versus an American way, the Australians that were interviewed, the adults were saying, and the government was saying this is, they didn't use the word wonky, but there is, this is gonna take a while, there's gonna be glitches.
[00:01:33] It's going to have rough patches where I'm not quite sure if, if Americans would, would be that honest at the beginning.
[00:01:42] Jolene: glad you said
[00:01:43] nicole: Yeah.
[00:01:43] Jolene: I think that's exactly what I took away from, from these articles too, is they like, they would rather move forward with kind of a, a half-assed, you know, law that does something than do nothing,
[00:01:57] nicole: They wanted to try. Exactly,
[00:01:59] Jolene: [00:02:00] is that a US thing versus an Australia thing?
[00:02:02] nicole: Yeah.
[00:02:02] Jolene: I thought about that
[00:02:03] nicole: Yeah. I, I found, I honestly found it quite refreshing because, and I think throughout this whole topic today and I hope that United States, when we can get into, it'll just try something because nothing's gonna be perfect. It's too big, it's too big of social media is too big.
[00:02:21] Cell phones are, it's so much a part of our life that we get very stuck. certainly Americans get very stuck in. this is gonna hit our first amendment right. So to go back for a second, to go back to the Australian, when it happened, I guess there were some glitches that there was one kid I read that he was 14 and he told the. Company. Yes, I'm 14 four times. And it got through, you know, there's always a workaround that some kids move to different social media channels, but now fast forward, the New York Times had a piece, talking about the [00:03:00] Australian social media ban. That meta has indeed, kicked off, I don't know what the word would be, 550,000, uh, users that were underage in Australia. and that yes, there are definitely tons of work around, but that, some of these kids are, are not on.
[00:03:18] Jolene: So here are some, some specifics of this law.
[00:03:22] nicole: Yeah.
[00:03:22] Jolene: actually a, a law that was developed in November of 24. And this amendment though, um, really kind of kicked it into gear to have it be effective in December of 25, called the Online Safety Act. no one under 16 can have an account.
[00:03:40] And I think that's the one part you know, as you kind of work through this, is the intent of this law versus, you know, in reality what's happening with it. So the intent is for, if you're under 16, to not have an account on those 10 social media sites, So you can still get on it.
[00:03:58] You can, as a 15-year-old, you [00:04:00] can still get on and you can scroll through, whatever is on there. But because you don't have an account, it's not specifically feeding into your algorithms that you've developed as an account user. there is some protection there because, one of the things that we, we're all reading about now is the damage to your mental health as a, as a teenager or, or even, you know, prepubescent, you know, kids that are getting cell phones when they're in third grade, you know? and if they have access to social media, you know, what that's doing to their psyche and their perception because as we all know, the more you talk about. Wanting to buy new luggage. All of a sudden, all of your algorithms on all your social media is are ads for luggage.
[00:04:47] And you're like, well, how did that happen? How, you know, how did you know that I wanted luggage? So the the point being, if you can't, if you're under 16 and you don't actually have an account, then you are not developing an algorithm that [00:05:00] is specific to what you, are looking for. So there is some safety in that.
[00:05:04] nicole: I thought when it came to like, YouTube, that makes sense, but when it comes to places like Instagram, people were using their parents' account. 'cause you can't just go onto Instagram without an account, can you?
[00:05:17] Jolene: you can,
[00:05:18] nicole: Okay.
[00:05:19] Jolene: my mother does, because she doesn't have any social media.
[00:05:22] nicole: It's your account.
[00:05:23] Jolene: she can look up, if I sent her something on Instagram, she can click on it and that will come up on her like
[00:05:30] nicole: Okay.
[00:05:30] Jolene: as a,
[00:05:31] nicole: Sure.
[00:05:32] Jolene: know.
[00:05:32] nicole: I do that too with, sometimes with my dad, but they're not Instagram users. They, he doesn't, she doesn't. Okay. Right,
[00:05:40] Jolene: So you can still look something up though on Instagram and
[00:05:44] nicole: right.
[00:05:45] Jolene: on
[00:05:45] nicole: Sure.
[00:05:46] Jolene: The other thing that I think is interesting about this law is it says that, that the social media platforms have to take reasonable steps to verify that a user is 16 and over, and it is not [00:06:00] a fineable offense. if they've taken reasonable steps. So let's say this 15-year-old or 14-year-old that you were referring to said, no, I told him I was 14, but Facebook can come back and say. Well, we took reasonable steps. We, you know, we asked for a photo ID or we asked for, you know, we looked at some of their, um, the content and we assumed that they were over 16.
[00:06:25] So I think that's the other problem with this is how accountable are these social media, apps really going to have to be if they're taking, you know, what is considered a reasonable step.
[00:06:36] nicole: in the New York Times article it was about how um, some of these Australian kids are using facial hair or swapping their photos with celebrities and they are getting a workaround. But then they also talked to, I don't know if it's in the New York Times or I've read so much today, but, there was a dad that couldn't get through, but his kid could get through.
[00:06:57] Like, there's going to be glitches. But that [00:07:00] said, and it's a very good point, Jolene, because these media companies, they will get fined a 30 million US dollars. who's gonna hold them accountable to that? Shouldn't they already be paying that? Because people are getting through like what is the, what is the line, I guess that says that's it. You get the fine.
[00:07:17] Jolene: what I think is interesting. did they leave it really open-ended? because they just wanted to do something which is that signaling to parents, wow, they're, they're serious about this. Like, maybe, maybe I need to do a better job of, of watching what my children are doing because now it, there's a law.
[00:07:36] I mean, it, so is doing something, just bringing more attention, to the issues so that parents or teachers or, you know, whatever, whoever it is, is taking this a little more seriously. and if that's the intent. Okay. You've, you know, they're, they're accomplishing that.
[00:07:55] nicole: I mean, what do you think? I mean, 'cause we could go right into the United [00:08:00] States cell phone ban, and I have a lot of thoughts about it. And, and it is about parenting. It is about parenting par parent parenting. People parenting, so now there's a, there's 35 states plus, DC that have created, um, bell to bell, uh, cell phone bans in their schools.
[00:08:24] And they've seen incredible, uh, results, with attention spans, grades going up. I mean, I can't even imagine what these teachers were going through before. I really, I really can't. And, Utah just decided, you know, governor Cox is like, we need to do bell to bell. And I realized he's late because, uh, New York started last fall.
[00:08:49] And yes, of course there are workarounds, there's gonna always be workarounds. Kids are smart, creative if they wanna get something done. It's also an incredibly [00:09:00] addictive thing, right? So people are very addicted and some people will do whatever they can to feed the need, basically. But they were finding that these kids, are playing board games at recess.
[00:09:14] They're talking to each other. They are implementing sports programs again in the in lunches and recess to do. Like what we did. And that sort of social connectivity is crucial to kids emotional health developmental health. I'm all for it. I mean, and they were also saying that, local and state governments, local school boards are implementing these.
[00:09:42] They're not waiting. it's a pretty bipartisan, topic. I think, you know, I did read that Republicans want it more than Democrats. Which I found really fascinating. I think there was a lot of fear and it's, again, [00:10:00] it's how do I get in touch with my kid?
[00:10:02] People are worried about school shootings and the world that we're in. You know, that goes into a conversation of, guns. But we all survived without phones before and we all,
[00:10:15] Jolene: Okay. But that is true. Uh uh, but you know, what I think is so interesting is I thought about this if, wow, I mean, I'm so distracted,
[00:10:25] nicole: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Jolene: you know, whether I have a DD or A DHD or you know, as an adult even I would've to sit in the front. I mean, this was even, I mean, through college. So for sure when I was in elementary and, you know, junior high and high school, I would've to sit in the front row or else I would be completely distracted by everything else around me.
[00:10:43] And so if I needed to concentrate, I had to sit in the front row. but we passed notes. Did you pass notes?
[00:10:49] nicole: Of.
[00:10:50] Jolene: And so that was, I, so I'm thinking about that in terms of like, if I was in the middle of science class and somebody, if Jill were to [00:11:00] send me a note and I'm sitting there reading it, I've completely just missed everything that Mrs.
[00:11:05] Kaufman just did because I absolutely have no idea. Uh, I am so into this note of what we are going to play at recess and, um, who we're not gonna let in our group because we were mean girls and or what boy is cute and, you know, are we gonna hold hands during the next, um, time? There's a movie and it gets dark in the gym. if we were distracted by that, then could you even imagine having cell phones? I,
[00:11:34] nicole: no, because we as adults can't handle it. And so that's, that's also what I like May, I don't know if this is a liberal conservative thing. I honestly don't really know why it would be. I understand there's a lot of argument that I'm hearing about these kids have, first Amendment rights and I'm thinking, okay, we're not saying [00:12:00] any, that's fine, but they're going to school.
[00:12:03] We have licenses to drive. We have age limits to drink. maybe it's about like kids having the flip phones. If you need to get in touch with the kid, you have a flip phone know, every school could implement it differently.
[00:12:22] But I I
[00:12:23] Jolene: we need to go back to pagers.
[00:12:25] nicole: need payphones. We need payphones then.
[00:12:28] Jolene: yes. If you need to get ahold of your kid, you put call
[00:12:32] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:33] Jolene: or
[00:12:33] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:12:35] Jolene: On your pager
[00:12:36] nicole: some of the stats are,
[00:12:39] they're saying that children who have smartphones by age 12 have a much higher risk of depression, obesity, and lack of sleep. I mean, it is,
[00:12:51] Jolene: Hello?
[00:12:52] nicole: it doesn't, 72% of the US high school's teachers reported that students being [00:13:00] distracted is the by cell phones was the major problem in their work. from PEWS Research Center, it says 74%, of people support cell phone bans in middle school and high school Republicans, uh, have a 78% approval rating versus Democrats that have a 71%. Some want it all day, someone it part-time. I'm thinking all day, it's the only way that you benefit is to connect, to have those moments of connection or awkwardness or silence or just all those good human things that we.
[00:13:39] Need to walk through the world. I mean, I feel like we need to take responsibility as grownups, right? And, and, and this is a way to care for our children. I don't believe it's just about banning, it's also about figuring out ways and we can fumble through it and maybe [00:14:00] we can take suggestion from the Australians and understand we need to try something.
[00:14:05] Jolene: one of the things that I thought of, why can't we have jamming devices in schools so that, that it can like, the signals don't come through
[00:14:14] nicole: Yes.
[00:14:14] Jolene: that I read that it's against the law
[00:14:16] nicole: Well, there you go. Well,
[00:14:17] Jolene: device
[00:14:18] nicole: that's so funny that you say that because, um, that's so funny. so one thing that I also sort of clued in on is that a lot of these social media, inventors are the first ones to say we don't let our children use it.
[00:14:36] We don't. And so, for instance, YouTube, CEO limits his social, his kids' social media. Bill Gates didn't give his pH kids phones until they were 14. Mark Cuban installed Cisco routers and used management software to monitor which app his children were on and shut off their [00:15:00] activity.
[00:15:01] Jolene: Wow.
[00:15:02] nicole: But to me,
[00:15:03] Jolene: Um.
[00:15:04] nicole: back Jolene to parenting.
[00:15:06] Jolene: I think I've shared this story with you and I, and I know, I don't think I've shared it with our viewers. So I've got to tell you this story. This is a family friend of ours, in, Conway, Arkansas, the parents work, they have four children. The father is a, um, high school principal and he is also the basketball coach, the I know women's or men's basketball coach. And so their rule is no, none of their kids have phone. Their oldest, I think is 14 now. None of their kids have phones and they're not gonna get 'em until they're 16. They said once they start driving, then they can have a phone so that they can, know where they are and blah, blah, blah. the kids in their town that don't have a phone, like they know this family is known for. Kids don't have phones. So Lily, one day after school, she was supposed to, the instruction was after school. go to the high school. Go to your dad's school, [00:16:00] um, and wait for him to get done with practice and he will bring you home.
[00:16:03] Mom had to work late. Lily then, walks to the high school from, I think she was in junior high. So she walks to the high school, she gets there, and, her dad's not there. she realized then she looked at the school calendar that was, you know, posted, in the gym and saw that he didn't have practice.
[00:16:22] He actually had a game and it was away. And so he was not there to take her home. So she knew that the contingency plan Was to, to walk to someone's house. And I can't remember who the, who the house was, but it was raining. But Lily knew that those were the instructions. And so she starts walking she's crying because she can't, you know, she doesn't have a phone and so she can't get ahold of her dad and she can't get ahold of her mom.
[00:16:48] And, but she knows what her
[00:16:49] nicole: Was the school closed that she couldn't go and use the like the school phone. Phone.
[00:16:55] Jolene: Yeah. My, I, I guess
[00:16:56] nicole: Okay.
[00:16:57] Jolene: uh, let's say it
[00:16:57] nicole: Okay.
[00:16:58] Jolene: and so she, [00:17:00] um,
[00:17:00] nicole: And now there aren't payphones there. At least there used to be payphones.
[00:17:04] Jolene: Yeah. Right. And so she starts walking and that someone stopped and said someone that she knew and said, Lily, do you need a ride? And she's like, Nope. I know exactly where I need to go.
[00:17:15] I am okay. And she kept walking because she was so determined to do the right thing and that she had to figure all these things out. And so my point of this story is that. if this would've happened to somebody who had a cell phone, that they would've instantly called their mom and their mom's like, I'm sorry, but I've gotta work.
[00:17:32] And so you're just gonna have to walk to, you know, Jim's house or, you know, whatever, and, and, and have that communication. But the mom would have told Lily exactly what to do. What Lily had to do instead was figure out, okay, my dad's not here. I'm not, I can't get a ride home. What's the next thing I have to do?
[00:17:51] How do I get there? What do I do? It's raining. That sucks, but I'm gonna have to do it anyway because that rain's not gonna kill me. I mean, those kids [00:18:00] not having a cell phone has taught them to be resourceful and independent and, um, you know, ha having to think through things, which are we losing that with our kids because. If all they have to do is make a phone call or you know, then you know the problem is solved.
[00:18:19] nicole: Absolutely.
[00:18:19] Jolene: That is my concern.
[00:18:21] nicole: I, I love that you shared that story and I, I. Absolutely a bazillion percent agree with you. even like, we'll be in a conversation. Any of us will be in a conversation, oh, what was that film? We don't take a moment to actually use our brains to think about it or not know everything is at our fingertips.
[00:18:41] And that solving problems, trying to figure things out, it reminds me of like, of traveling in a country that is very different. Like, like when we went to Cambodia. And you have to use your brain in a totally different way. And [00:19:00] it's the biggest gift to learn how to, uh, problem solve, not panic, be creative the way you think about things.
[00:19:09] I wanna read this, I think this is the right time. 'cause you talked about the parenting. So the, one of the articles, um, and I can put it in the show notes, was from the New Yorker. And it was a writer named Jay Caspian King, and I'm just gonna read the very end of the article, which I found interesting.
[00:19:26] Australia's ban might be seen more fruitfully as a restriction not on children, but on their parents. A comprehensive and wide ranging demand that the state laid down rules. Australian parents cannot enforce on their own
[00:19:46] Jolene: Uh.
[00:19:46] nicole: a vision of a better digital life. Shouldn't just focus on children, but also on workplaces
[00:19:55] Adult social norms, we all need to put down the [00:20:00] phones and make efforts to move the public square away from private technology companies that incentivize cheap engagement. The scope should also be widened to include prescriptions on what we should do with all our newfound time, especially with our children. because I think our aversion to social media and phones really stands in for a broader discomfort with how scheduled atomized and expensive their lives have become.
[00:20:32] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:20:33] nicole: why aren't we saying no to our kids? why do the kids have phones in their rooms? And, and you can say they needed to study. They don't need the phones to study. They might need a computer to study. Is there safari on that computer?
[00:20:51] Yes. But there are ways that you can, as a parent, manage your child. Are they gonna feel left [00:21:00] out? That is part of adolescence that has nothing to do with
[00:21:05] Jolene: they going to be safer? I
[00:21:07] nicole: a,
[00:21:07] Jolene: that's the whole point
[00:21:09] nicole: yes, we're
[00:21:10] Jolene: had computers. I mean, kind of computers were new when our
[00:21:14] nicole: right.
[00:21:14] Jolene: you know, I
[00:21:15] nicole: I guess so. I guess you're right. Yeah.
[00:21:16] Jolene: instructional way. if you used the computer, you had to be at the kitchen table. So, you know, we knew what you were, looking at and watching and, and all that, so that you couldn't have a computer.
[00:21:28] We wouldn't let our kids have a computer in their rooms. You had to, you had to use a computer at the, at the table. Here's the other thing though, as we talk about bands in schools,
[00:21:39] nicole: Yeah. What is your feeling about bands? how do you feel about it?
[00:21:42] Jolene: prior to, to digging into this, like most things that you and I talk about, you know, I think, well, here's what I think, and then you do the research and you read both sides and you, and, and you go, wow, God, maybe I don't think that, here's, here's the problem. my knee-jerk reaction would be Yes, love it.
[00:21:59] Ban it, [00:22:00] have social interaction. Can't have phones all day long. our friend Susie, they're her youngest daughter, that I think they get phones at recess or at, um, I'm sorry, at lunchtime. Um, she's in eighth grade, that's the only time they can have their phone and I don't know if they have to, you know, it somewhere or put it
[00:22:18] in
[00:22:18] nicole: Right.
[00:22:18] Jolene: or, or whatever. and, and, and I like that. However, I'm just wondering if by saying no phones at all, if we're kind of doing a disservice to what happens when they get outta school, because if we're not teaching them to use it responsibly and, and can we take that opportunity during the school day? To teach kids how to use it responsibly and saying, you know, instead of saying that phone is a bad thing and no, you can't use it, is there some way to use a phone? And, and, and I don't know what that is. I, I
[00:22:53] nicole: I mean, I think that's a really good point, Jolene, because I do like the bell to bell system. I like that it's a [00:23:00] place for kids to learn and, and create and not be distracted. But I also agree and was reading a ton about it. Like, what else are we doing? Everybody? Like maybe there's a class that we develop that you take in school and we learn about healthy social media and cell phone habits.
[00:23:23] I, I'd like to take it, I think we all would like, this is not, but it's, it's especially concerning 'cause these are children, right. But I think one of the reasons that people just come up with the ban is because, number one, it's something that, it's certainly not easy, but it's, it's easier to do than coming up with a plan of how do we help?
[00:23:45] How do we educate kids about these? About not just the dangers, all of it. Like how can social media be positive? How can it be negative? Like
[00:23:54] Jolene: Did
[00:23:55] nicole: was gonna say, it's almost like, yes, digital citizen. There you go. I [00:24:00] think that's great. I was gonna say it's like sex education, but Totally not, but like, how do we have responsible home Mac?
[00:24:07] Jolene: home
[00:24:07] nicole: Yeah. Like you learn to cook a,
[00:24:09] Jolene: think they,
[00:24:10] nicole: you cook an omelet
[00:24:11] Jolene: anymore.
[00:24:12] nicole: deal with your cell phone.
[00:24:13] Jolene: one of the things that I think we read, uh, I think this was an article you shared, with me, was where does the discipline come in? Because I think this is where the real challenge is for school districts right now is, teachers don't want to be the bad guys because then they're the police.
[00:24:28] You know, they're, they're the teachers and the police. And so if they're taking cell phones away, then, you know, how many times do you have to take it away before you call the parent? And how many times till that kid goes to the principal's office? And, I would love to hear, please, as a teacher, you know, a teacher administrator, please
[00:24:46] nicole: us know.
[00:24:46] Jolene: your feelings on this or what is working in your school district because I, I would love to share that with the rest of our community.
[00:24:52] nicole: one of the articles that they were saying that teachers spend like an hour of their day total dealing with [00:25:00] disciplining, uh, kids with their cell phones. and every state, by the way, a lot of states, they have very different rules. Some are bell to bells, some a lot like, like Susie's daughter, they have, access at recess. each state has its own rules and some states have no rules yet.
[00:25:19] but it seems like everyone is aware of how, difficult and invasive these instruments are. let's just do some housekeeping for a moment before we continue. please like and subscribe, uh, and share with a friend. And if you're interested in being a sponsor, please go to, we've got to talk.com and go to the contact page.
[00:25:41] We would love to have you as a sponsor. these conversations are really difficult. they're not black and white, are they, Joe? They are like so nuanced. They are not Republican or Democrat. They are not, and I think in some ways this topic. like, it's kind of a [00:26:00] perfect example of what we've got to talk is about because everyone's got their own, uh, feelings about it, their own stories about it. And like you said, which I thought was really beautifully said, that you had an idea about what your feelings were and then you did some research and went, huh, maybe I don't think that way. So, during the Biden administration, his surgeon General, Vivek Murthy, called for a warning on social media companies to have it be like tobacco or alcohol. cause he was so worried about the jump in suicide rates, the mental health strain, the comparison, the depression, the anxiety. and I was reading an article where, and I think it was in California, uh, there was an argument that they were concerned. [00:27:00] That the label would promote shame. And we need to teach, teach responsible, healthy ways. my reaction to that was, uh, are you kidding me? We gotta do something. Like, try something. Why can't we do both? we're the adults in the room, we're the grownups. it's like a multi-pronged solution. and I think that this really could be a bipartisan issue.
[00:27:29] Jolene: Absolutely. Because I mean, obviously we all want healthy kids. We all want, you know, mentally stable people in our world. and even like the Roblox, which is a, you know, kind of a kid friendly,
[00:27:41] nicole: yeah. What is that? Jolene?
[00:27:44] Jolene: it's some type of game. but it's a platform for kids then to, they can communicate via this platform. but that also means that who are predators can also disguise themselves as a kid and get [00:28:00] on this platform. And I, and I think there's been some incidents, um, that, that have happened within the roblox, I think Roblox is a very age specific, that you are really. meant to be talking to people your own age.
[00:28:14] So obviously if someone, if there's, you know, a, a predator who can obviously get in there, then that's, that's where dangerous things can happen.
[00:28:23] nicole: Of keeping on things, you know, so.
[00:28:25] Jolene: I, I look at that as, okay, they, they've tried to develop a, um, a platform that is, that is kid friendly, you
[00:28:35] nicole: You still gotta be careful.
[00:28:36] Jolene: things.
[00:28:37] nicole: you've gotta be careful. I read the CEO or one of the founders of YouTube, uh, Steve Chen, he will not let his kids look at YouTube shorts or any short form at all. 'cause he is like, it's too addictive. It screws up their attention spans. No way. No way. He [00:29:00] monitors.
[00:29:00] He'll let them watch a little bit of long form. And that is it. And this is a person that has developed the platform that is so, he is saying like, it's addictive and you need to protect your children, period. And I know that this is gonna probably sound like an episode of like parents step up, but parents step up. I'm a parent. It's exhausting. You want some downtime or they're screaming and you're like, just go on the screen. I get it, I get it, I get it. But it's really important to know what your kids are watching and limit the time. I mean, listen, I was a latchkey kid and we'd watch tv. but that was, you know, three channels. It was a little bit of, it was a little bit of a different time.
[00:29:49] Jolene: yes, I agree. And, and I think everybody would agree with that. here's what, what I found so interesting, that social media is intentionally designed [00:30:00] to a, keep you scrolling. B trigger emotion.
[00:30:05] And c increase dependency. So if you look at the, if you look at those three things,
[00:30:11] nicole: That's a drug.
[00:30:12] Jolene: else? That's meth, that's cocaine.
[00:30:16] nicole: Yes.
[00:30:17] Jolene: to, to, to keep you coming, keep you coming
[00:30:19] nicole: Yep,
[00:30:20] Jolene: for
[00:30:20] nicole: yep,
[00:30:21] Jolene: to trigger an emotion, to make you feel high, to make you feel great. Everything's fantastic. And to increase dependency, I want more of
[00:30:28] nicole: Yep.
[00:30:28] Jolene: And so you look at if, if this is exactly the same thing that a drug does, And so what do you do if you're addicted to a drug? You have to go to detox.
[00:30:38] And, and I think that's, that's exactly what we're, we're seeing
[00:30:41] nicole: I'll see in an airport or in a public space, like kids just addicted to the screen. Little babies with screens in front of them, and that adult pulls that screen away and they go completely ballistic. Why
[00:30:56] Jolene: Yep.
[00:30:57] nicole: are they going ballistic? Because they're addicted [00:31:00] to the screen and who's winning?
[00:31:03] The tech companies? Not really. The parents. Not the children, the tech companies. I mean, in a way it's the same issue with lots of news. The tech companies are winning. They're making a bunch of money. They're pitting us against each other. this is a problem. I didn't have my own baby, so I don't know if that means I'm less of a parent or what,
[00:31:29] Jolene: No.
[00:31:30] nicole: but I feel like our generation, I don't understand why we have such a hard time saying no to our kids.
[00:31:39] Jolene: because it's hard. It is hard being a
[00:31:44] nicole: It is hard being a parent, but our parents had no problem saying no.
[00:31:48] Jolene: Well, uh, but I think they did. I remember, I, I was relentless. I I was a relentless kid. If my mom said no, I would continue to beg. I would find another way to [00:32:00] ask her. I would go back and say, but, but can we do this instead?
[00:32:03] I mean, and I, I know that I exhausted her at some point and she was like, fine, yes, you can go. You can go fine. Just go
[00:32:10] nicole: Get outta
[00:32:11] Jolene: at 10 o'clock.
[00:32:12] nicole: here.
[00:32:13] Jolene: Yeah. Get, get the heck outta here. it's hard, it's hard saying no, because now you know you're gonna get blowback and sometimes it's easier just to say yes than it is to have to deal with the blowback and then they're gonna be mad and that, you
[00:32:26] nicole: Yeah.
[00:32:27] Jolene: thing.
[00:32:27] It's hard being a
[00:32:28] nicole: Yeah. I also do find,
[00:32:30] Jolene: another, another thing to be, you know, to, that we have to fight
[00:32:35] nicole: yes, I see a lot of images or people, you know, experiences where I'll see a little kid and. The little kid is trying to get their parents' attention. That's the part that makes me the most sad, honestly,
[00:32:50] Jolene: I know.
[00:32:52] nicole: where the kid doesn't have a screen and they just wanna interact with mom or dad or sister or [00:33:00] babysitter or whatever, and that adult is checked out and I think, what are you modeling?
[00:33:08] Jolene: If they don't get their parents' attention, they'll get a pa. They'll get attention from somewhere else.
[00:33:13] nicole: Yeah.
[00:33:13] Jolene: mean, that's, that is so true. Do you think, here's one of the things that I, I, um. That I think about though too, is do you think that, if Trump were to issue an executive order, or I mean God forbid he should go to Congress and try to get a law passed,
[00:33:33] banning cell phones in schools. that Democrats would, uh, have a blow back, uh, against it just because Trump said it.
[00:33:44] nicole: Probably.
[00:33:45] Jolene: I do too.
[00:33:46] nicole: I mean I gave some shout outs for our 2026 episode, a couple things that were actually good that he's was doing, but it's just [00:34:00] completely, muffled by all these big things that he's doing. And you're not, I don't think you're wrong, Jolene. I think people are really like in entrenched in their camps.
[00:34:14] they can't see through the trees right now. it would be, don't tell us what to do all of a sudden. in terms of a cell phone ban.
[00:34:24] Jolene: You'd have the A CLU who would
[00:34:28] nicole: Well, there, it's all about the first A,
[00:34:29] Jolene: kids?
[00:34:30] nicole: First Amendment rights too.
[00:34:33] Jolene: Yeah. And you'd have like, what about those kids who need a phone
[00:34:36] nicole: Yes.
[00:34:37] Jolene: their diabetes monitoring
[00:34:40] nicole: But I'm thinking to myself, so let them have it, like why, like we, we've just gotten so extreme. It's like we can't, we can't have any nuance with this cell phone ban either. If someone needs it, like for, 'cause there was some reading that I did about like some au autistic diagnosis [00:35:00] that that really, so let them have the phone.
[00:35:02] Like, why is this? if we looked at it from a human lens and not a partisan lens, we could say, so let's work on this together. So this is a, you know, I think we should learn from Australia, I think is the bottom line that it is messy. It is. There's going to be workarounds, there's going to be people that push back, there's going to be people that end up liking it and it's just trying something, try something and acknowledge that it's gonna be bumpy and messy and hard and, I mean, the good news is that we do have a, some, some local, uh, some school districts and states are choosing to try and take care of the kids. And I like what you're saying Jolene, about, let's also implement some sort of, uh. Whether it's a class in school or some sort of course, how do we [00:36:00] use these, smartphones in a responsible, healthy way?
[00:36:05] Jolene: Good.
[00:36:05] nicole: do you think?
[00:36:06] Jolene: I like it.
[00:36:07]
[00:36:10] Jolene: Have we talked about whether Adam
[00:36:13] nicole: What's that?
[00:36:14] Jolene: Oh good. I couldn't remember if I'd already done him or not.
[00:36:18] nicole: Okay.
[00:36:19] Jolene: it's weather. Adam, W-E-A-T-H-E-R-A-D-A-M. Adam Krueger, he's the chief meteorologist at Fox LA he will do an entire segment about the weather to the lyrics of some song. So if you give him a song of, um, and he does some great stuff, um, like the Eminem version.
[00:36:46] So he'll take an Eminem song but he'll use like the different phrases in that song or different lyrics in that song and implement it into the, into the weather. So
[00:36:55] The thing that I just saw come across my feed was, um. He did a thing with, [00:37:00] um, DiCaprio at the Golden Globes, and, did kind of a riff on something that he did. He's just, he's very talented. so if you can find him, um, weather Adam.
[00:37:11] nicole: Okay.
[00:37:12] Jolene: entertaining.
[00:37:13] nicole: awesome.
[00:37:14] Alright, well my good for the soul.
[00:37:18] Jolene: Yes.
[00:37:19] nicole: I was thinking about it 'cause I was like, huh, we're doing a social media ban slash United States cell phone ban episode. So I thought I should give an assignment
[00:37:34] Jolene: oh.
[00:37:34] nicole: the next time you want to scroll instead, call a friend. If the friend doesn't answer, leave an old fashioned.
[00:37:48] Voice message saying, I'm thinking about you. I just wanted to say hi. And then if they don't answer, you put your phone down. [00:38:00] You walk out the door and you take a walk without your phone. I was gonna say for 15 minutes, but a lot of people don't have watches anymore. But just take a little walk.
[00:38:09] Jolene: That is true.
[00:38:10] nicole: Just take a little walk without your phone.
[00:38:17] Would you rather have all your messages and photos leak publicly or never use your cell phone again?
[00:38:29] Jolene: no, I'm too dependent on my cell phone for work. yeah, go ahead. Because I don't send anything
[00:38:36] nicole: smart.
[00:38:39] Jolene: that is, 'cause I just know
[00:38:41] nicole: Put your photos. Any photos.
[00:38:43] Jolene: I mean, yeah, there's some unflattering photos, but nothing naughty.
[00:38:46] Uh, okay, here's
[00:38:47] nicole: Okay.
[00:38:48] Jolene: Would you rather be limited to one social media app forever? Or have to create a brand new username every day.
[00:39:03] nicole: Girl, I would be so happy since I'm in charge of the social media
[00:39:09] Jolene: Yes.
[00:39:10] nicole: and I find it mind numbing. I would love to have one app. I'm good. I'm good with one app.
[00:39:17] Jolene: would be the one social media app you would use?
[00:39:19] nicole: Well, here's the question. Is YouTube considered the social media app then?
[00:39:23] Jolene: I think so.
[00:39:24] nicole: It would be YouTube for sure.
[00:39:25] Jolene: So viewer and listener, if you are on YouTube watching and
[00:39:30] nicole: Yes.
[00:39:30] Jolene: you so
[00:39:31] nicole: Thank you.
[00:39:32] Jolene: give us a thumbs up. Please comment. We want to hear your comments.
[00:39:36] We want to hear your thoughts. And if you are, a teacher or administrator, um, and
[00:39:42] nicole: My gosh. Yes,
[00:39:43] Jolene: would love to hear your opinion and all this and, and what is working and what isn't working
[00:39:48] nicole: and if you have any ideas, that would be great too.
[00:39:51] Jolene: Absolutely.
[00:39:52] nicole: Thank you, Jolene.
[00:39:54] Jolene: Thank you, Nicole. Thank you, listener.
[00:39:56] nicole: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:39:58] Jolene: you.
[00:39:58] nicole: really do.
[00:39:59]
