The Epstein files and the elite with no accountability
There are some topics you avoid not because they’re controversial, but because they’re heavy. The kind of heavy that makes you feel grimy just reading about it. That’s how the Epstein files feel. Not like a “true crime” story. Like a mirror you don’t want held up to society.
Jolene and I have spent nearly forty years talking about the things people tell you not to talk about. Politics. Religion. Money. Power. The stuff that can ruin a dinner party, but also explains why the world looks the way it does. And even for us, this one is daunting, because it isn’t just a scandal. It’s a case study in how exploitation hides in plain sight when the right people are involved.
The part that keeps landing like a punch is not that Jeffrey Epstein was evil. Of course he was. The part that makes your stomach turn is how long he operated, how many doors opened for him, and how many people either didn’t ask questions or decided the answers weren’t worth the inconvenience. That’s what the files force you to sit with. Not just one predator, but a whole ecosystem that made it possible.
Because Epstein wasn’t powerful in the traditional way. He didn’t have a public office. He wasn’t a household-name CEO. He was powerful in the way that actually runs the world. Through access. Through favors. Through secrets. Through the ability to make rich, important people feel like they were part of something exclusive, protected, and untouchable.
And this is where the story stops being about Epstein and starts being about class.
The hyper-elite live by different rules. Not always explicitly, but functionally. They have lawyers, connections, reputations to protect, and a thousand ways to make problems disappear. They also have something most ordinary people never get. The benefit of the doubt. The assumption of credibility. The luxury of being seen as “too important” to be questioned.
Meanwhile, the victims are treated like background noise. Replaceable. Disbelievable. “Complicated.” The kind of people society is trained to doubt. And that’s the rot at the center of this. Exploitation thrives when the powerful are protected and the powerless are disposable.
Will we ever know the whole truth? Not the gossip version. The real version. The version that names names, maps networks, and shows exactly how deep the complicity went.
And then there are the details that make you realize how far beyond “sleazy rich guy” this story goes. The talk of eugenics. The compound plans. The way influential people trusted him, funded him, defended him, or stayed close enough to benefit. It’s not just disturbing. It’s revealing. It shows you how easily morality gets traded for proximity to power.
What makes it worse is how quickly people try to turn this into a partisan weapon. As if exploitation only matters when it helps your team. As if justice is something you deploy, not something you demand. Jolene and I agree on this completely. This is not a left issue or a right issue. It’s a human issue. It’s about whether we live in a society where the rules apply to everyone, or where the wealthy and connected get a private legal system and the rest of us get lectures about personal responsibility.
And if you feel that familiar exhaustion creeping in, you’re not alone. Because this story taps into something bigger than Epstein. It taps into the sense that accountability is optional if you have enough money, enough friends, and enough leverage. That the truth is negotiable. That silence can be bought.
So what do we do with it?
We keep talking about it, for one. Not in a conspiratorial, frothing way. In a clear-eyed way. We refuse to let the victims become footnotes. We refuse to let the story get buried under political spin. We refuse to accept a world where exploitation is just the cost of doing business for the powerful.
Because sweeping it under the rug only serves the few at the expense of the many. And the longer we pretend this is “too dark” to look at, the easier it is for the next Epstein to operate.
We want to hear your thoughts, genuinely. What do you think accountability should look like here? Do you believe we’ll ever get the full truth? And what would it take for a culture that protects predators to finally start protecting the vulnerable instead?
As always, we’re not here to end the conversation. We’re here to keep it honest, keep it human, and keep it going.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
The Epstein Files (Politics, subpoenas, and the current fallout)
NYT (Feb 12, 2026): Epstein files overview / political angle
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/12/us/politics/epstein-files.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.Ks_d.pTEwL-KfzLEH&smid=url-shareNYT (Mar 4, 2026): Pam Bondi subpoena related to the Epstein files
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/04/us/politics/pam-bondi-subpoena-epstein-files.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.ev5r.I-KWB7-Gs8oP&smid=url-share
New Mexico / Zorro Ranch (location + operations)
NYT (Mar 1, 2026): Epstein’s New Mexico “Zorro Ranch”
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/01/us/jeffrey-epstein-new-mexico-zorro-ranch.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.taQs.mfGbZ_Gv_DZe&smid=url-share
Medical network / enablers (doctors)
NYT (Feb 28, 2026): Epstein and doctors
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/28/us/jeffrey-epstein-doctors.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.DT50.a3Mt3jihkdRH&smid=url-share
Eugenics angle (historical reporting)
NYT (Jul 31, 2019): Epstein and eugenics
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/business/jeffrey-epstein-eugenics.html?unlocked_article_code=1.RFA.kPt3.sqD4Xrz4SYqG&smid=url-share
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud. Welcome to, we've got to talk.
[00:00:21] Jolene: welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to We've Got To Talk. And today's episode is one that we have not wanted to do, uh, but we have to. guess that's the only way that I could say it is the Epstein Files and the Epstein events. it's something that, um, I am curious to get your opinions on and, it's just, it's one of those things that we have to talk about.
[00:00:42] So here we go.
[00:00:43] nicole: So we are gonna get straight into it. I'll start with my three hot takes, then Jolene will do hers, and then we will off to the races. So here we go. Hot Take number one. The more that I delve into the Epstein files and the the unfolding of the story, the [00:01:00] more I'm astounded. At who was involved, and it feels like almost every famous and or rich person and or powerful person in the 1990s and the aughts had a connection to Epstein, and yet no one knows was going on except maybe Prince Andrew. That's my number one. two. it's more than an exploitation of young women and girls. This is a class issue, young girls who have nothing and have no power, and have no voice, versus the hyper elite are, filled with entitled men and women who believe that their actions are untouchable. Number three. I can't believe how incredibly greedy and desperate, the top doctors, scientists, celebrities, all these people just wanted access to Epstein's money, his connections, his influence, [00:02:00] and they just happened to turn a blind eye to his activities, unquote. To me, this isn't a left or right issue.
[00:02:07] This is a failing on all of our parts to protect the rich at all costs and dismiss the voices of the disenfranchised.
[00:02:15] Jolene: I would say that mine are about the same.
[00:02:17] nicole: so let's reiterate your hot takes then. Yeah.
[00:02:21] Jolene: Number one, it is amazing to me. The more I feel like we've, we have been hearing about the Epstein files now for, uh, 18, so what, almost eight years. and I am amazed how. you really take a look at how this guy started, how Jeffrey Epstein started as a middle school teacher, and how he got to where he was, the.
[00:02:48] Arguably one of the most influential people in the world or had access to the most influential people in the world is, is mind boggling. And how one person [00:03:00] was able to do that through. And this kind of goes into the, my second one, through sex and power. I mean it boils down to sex and power and money.
[00:03:12] And I can't believe that we are a society that could look at the, the pull and the strength that sex and power and money have to bring down some of the most powerful people in the world. I mean, some of the most influential people in the world. and I don't even wanna say just as a woman, as a human,
[00:03:34] As you already said, on the backs, literally of young girls, um, who were poor or, you know, didn't have, you know, a direction and all that. and my third thing is, will we ever know the truth? You know, will we ever get to the point here we're releasing. All of these documents, and you can look at all the texts and, and the emails and the [00:04:00] photos and, and all that, but I don't know.
[00:04:04] The, the part of the Epstein files as we're calling them are anything from accusations that, you know, the FBI says are uncorroborated to victim statements that are horrendous. And so when we take, you know, a. Look at this in totality. Will we ever get to the truth? And I don't, I, I mean, I don't know that we ever will, will, are we ever gonna find out did he commit suicide or somebody kill him?
[00:04:32] I mean, if, if Ghislaine Maxwell. Is that how you say her name? Ghislaine, Ghislaine,
[00:04:38] nicole: so.
[00:04:39] Jolene: Maxwell. If she, is she the only one alive who really knows the truth? And, and how can that be? How could there not be other people that don't know, and, and aren't implicated in this? So,
[00:04:50] nicole: you know, it's
[00:04:51] Jolene: ah.
[00:04:51] nicole: Jolene, because I think this is a, if, if we put a color on it, a bright, bright purple issue. I [00:05:00] don't know anyone. This is not partisan. This is, uh, to me about humanity and inhumanity.
[00:05:08] that doesn't mean it's Republican or Democrat. I think why so many people are outraged, the more they hear about it, they can't believe that these things have gone unchecked.
[00:05:20] Jolene: isn't it interesting for you to say That it's bipartisan when we're getting to a point where it was really the Republican women on this house, committee who voted with Democrats. I mean, is it like, wait a second. Is this the women versus the men? I mean, it's the whole reason that Marjorie Taylor Green said, I, I am out if he, if if Trump's not gonna release, or the DO j's not gonna release all the files, I, I, I'm almost feeling like this is a.
[00:05:49] Like a male versus female situation. You don't,
[00:05:53] nicole: don't because there's a, I mean, maybe a lot of male democrats that have been [00:06:00] and, and some Republican men too. the question to me then is why, aren't people standing up? On
[00:06:09] Jolene: Right.
[00:06:10] nicole: and saying, wait a minute, enough is enough.
[00:06:13] I mean, you're seeing Prince Andrew and there's this other, the other guy, forgive me, it starts with an m in Britain who has been arrested. Lord Peter Mandelson served as the British Ambassador of the United States, so he's one of the people that has been arrested. And then there's also, I'm going to absolutely, butcher this man's name, thorn Bjorn Jalin. He was a former Prime Minister and he has been charged with gross corruption, um, following investigations of the Epstein relationship.
[00:06:49] Jolene: So it's interesting though that those, and I think those spec, those three specific men, it, and it hasn't been sex related [00:07:00] crimes. It's really been more of the evidence, or I'm sorry, the, the, um, information or financial information that, that they gave to Epstein. then you can say in exchange for what or what.
[00:07:12] But, but the fact then, they handed over information to this man, and that's what they're in trouble for.
[00:07:20] nicole: Yes. I mean, he's, he's the biggest con artist. He had such charisma. I mean, he was a Dalton. Upper East Side teacher and they were there. There are in the times they're doing, you know, tons of investigations in the New York Times, and one article was about how that back in the seventies when he was a middle school teacher, there were rumblings about his inappropriate behavior with the kids.
[00:07:48] Jolene: Ugh.
[00:07:49] nicole: How these people just keep getting pushed forward or relieved or protected. I find [00:08:00] chilling. And there was an article in the New York Times I think that really struck me, Jolene and I sent it to you about, there's a photograph of this Upper East Side doctor and there's a girl laying on a dining room table.
[00:08:16] And she had cut open her head instead of taking her to a hospital, they called one of their Upper East side doctors to come and stitch her up. And it was a serious gash. And I'm just thinking what
[00:08:32] Jolene: 35 stitches.
[00:08:34] nicole: the
[00:08:34] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:08:35] nicole: going on here? And how are all these people just saying? Well, you, you, uh, you gave me, you know, a hundred thousand dollars or $500,000 for, so I could research X, Y, and Z.
[00:08:49] And so I'll turn a blind eye and I will stitch up this young girl. Why is she here? No.
[00:08:56] Jolene: can we, I think, oh, can we start? I really wanna start because [00:09:00] I, I didn't know all this until, until we started getting d digging into this. so he starts as a middle school teacher in the seventies. Um, never graduated from college. teaching, um, science and math.
[00:09:12] And one of his, presumably one of his students', um, father was an executive with Bear Stearns. And so he went to go work for Epstein, went to go work for him then as a trader. And by 1981 he was a partner, an associate partner, um, and then started his own firm after that. I mean, and not knowing, you know, what all the particulars are in between all that.
[00:09:35] But then started his own firm being a, um, a money manager for the ultra wealthy. You had to have a billion dollars or so, he said a billion dollars or more to get started with him, uh, for him to manage your money. So one of his very first, clients was, uh, Les Wexner.
[00:09:56] nicole: Yes.
[00:09:57] Jolene: And this is, so I, and I [00:10:00] didn't realize, I, I, I think I've, I'd heard the name Les Wexner before, but didn't know Leslie Wexner, didn't know who he was or what, but um, and I just sent this to my girls this week when I read this, that, um.
[00:10:13] Uh, so he's the one that started Victoria's Secrets and started, um, um, uh, the Limited and Amber Crombie and Fitch and the Limited two, which then became justice. And as a mother of three young girls at the time that, that were in their adolescence. And I'm talking, you know, we're talking when they're six to 10 years old.
[00:10:37] The obsession with skimpy clothes for girls at that age, I was absolutely amazed by, I, I, okay, so I, just to give you a little context here, we, did not have a lot of money. Jeff was football coach and, uh, didn't have a, a, a lot of money. So we really relied on hand-me-downs. [00:11:00] From my sister-in-law who loved shopping at the Gap, and, and she had, her two girls were just a little bit older than Callie, so we got all the hand-me-downs and she, she was a great shopper and so I was ha I mean, we would get hand-me-downs from the gap for, from her girls.
[00:11:16] And I'm like, I mean, this is good stuff. Anyway, so we always, you know, we're always wearing their clothes and, and my nieces Heidi and Megan, we would get their handmaid dance too, which was great. So. We didn't do a lot of shopping, but when we did, I would always go before school, uh, you know, in August before girls would start school.
[00:11:34] And I was amazed that when, when we would go into. What was the limited to, um, was kind of that adolescent girls store and which then turned into justice like the skimpy, little itty bitty shorts and crop tops and like bathing suit tops for shirts and that. My girls were like, this is what I want. And I'm like, what are, are you kidding me?
[00:11:59] And [00:12:00] bathing suits. I remember going. do they not make one piece bathing suits anymore for 9-year-old girls? So now that I put all this together with this whole Les Wexner and this, this obsession with adolescent girls of of Epstein. the light bulb went out, went off for me this week because I'm going, that's sick.
[00:12:21] I remember walking into Abercrombie and Fitch and having these girls who looked, you know, they had no makeup on and they looked so, so young, and they were modeling these clothes, you know, the, the big pictures that were on the sides of the walls. And a again, with, with boys, you know, touching them and stuff and I'm, I'm like, God, what are we doing here?
[00:12:45] I
[00:12:45] nicole: I remember the
[00:12:46] Jolene: now it all makes sense.
[00:12:47] nicole: the Abercrombie and uh, Fitch, campaign where it was
[00:12:54] Jolene: Campaigns.
[00:12:55] nicole: sort of following in a way the like Kel Klein, um.
[00:12:58] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:59] nicole: Uh, [00:13:00] underwear ads where it was, but they went younger than the Calvin Klein models and they were like always like sweaty like boys,
[00:13:09] Jolene: Yep. Yep.
[00:13:10] nicole: that were very chiseled with sand and wet and girls too, with like, they were young.
[00:13:18] And I remember going into New York to a, to when the Abercrombie and. stores where they would hire these young models, New York models, and they would walk around, the boys walk around in jeans and no shirt.
[00:13:33] And the girls had, I mean, and you're just like,
[00:13:36] Jolene: yeah.
[00:13:37] nicole: is this? I watched part of the, um, Les Wexner, uh, hearings and just sort of was astounded by it. And I sent you that clip he's 88 now and very long-winded and wants to explain things and at one point, and he goes very much off topic. All the time. And at one [00:14:00] point it's be, it's, it's a clip that's gone viral. You can look it up. Uh, you could just probably look up Les Wexner and his attorney getting mad and he leans over into, his ear and says, audibly, I will fucking
[00:14:16] Jolene: The, the,
[00:14:17] nicole: if you answer any question longer than two minutes. And it was like.
[00:14:22] Jolene: his attorney says that to him? Yes.
[00:14:25] nicole: and it was also just astounding, just the culture of the elite he would, they would ask very pointed questions about enormous sense of money to the rest of us. But when you're super rich, you're not
[00:14:39] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:40] nicole: and you blindly hire people to Care of your stuff. You know, it's a strange recollection. I'm not gonna share names, but I was a personal assistant to two. Very wealthy women, uh, during my, when I needed rent jobs before, before I [00:15:00] could be a full-time actor. And it's a very interesting relationship for what it's worth where there is this sort of, you go through an interview process and you usually sign a, a, you know, a non-disclosure agreement. but know, I was in charge of very personal things for these two women I had access, there is a trust there that is easily manipulated clearly. you know, I'm looking, I'm listening to the Leslie Wexner, hearing and thinking you lost $200 million and you have no way, you don't know it went. didn't really think about it or you don't remember when you bought that multimillion dollar plane, which to us would be like, oh, it was 1987, March 2nd. Like, but to, but when people are really wealthy, it's a real
[00:15:55] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:15:56] nicole: I've
[00:15:56] Jolene: Right.
[00:15:56] nicole: in my, in my very [00:16:00] tiny sliver of, access to that world that they're, they're busy doing whatever they're doing, and they are trusting you to help them
[00:16:09] Jolene: then he got access. Then because of this, he got access to a lot of money of, of Wexner money. And then that started him down this path of, rubbing elbows with the elite and. You know, you, you start to build up your, your resume of people that you, um, are in contact with.
[00:16:30] And, and one of the articles that I read, you know, said. when you're talking about that level of money, the circle's pretty small. And so if you get invited to a dinner there, you know, and there are 12 other people there, I mean, that, that, that circle is relatively small. And so if they know that you are dealing, working with this person, they're more apt to then introduce you to one of their friends, and that, that is just how this kind of really snowballed [00:17:00] into.
[00:17:00] Epstein having access to some of the most powerful, rich people in the world. so then it was 2005 when, um, finally Alex Acosta what was he a federal? No, he wasn't a federal prosecutor. He was, um, oh, he was the US attorney in Miami. Well, in 2005, the parents of a 14-year-old girl made the accusations, um, that, that she was molested in his Palm Beach home. and they, he got a plea deal. He, um, said that he would, um. Struck a deal, that he plead, pled guilty to state charges, not federal charges, and that also eliminated any other of the co-conspirators having to come forward. So, he, was guilty of solicitation of an underage girl and he spent 18 months in jail.
[00:17:54] But he got 12 hours a day out on, he get to, he got to leave from eight to eight [00:18:00] every day to go work and do whatever he wanted and then spend his nights in his hotel jail, I mean, really is what it ended up being. so then it was in 10 years later, then it was 2018. Then when federal prosecutors finally the Miami Herald started doing some investigative, um, journalism.
[00:18:19] Some articles and that's when really, I mean, that was kind of the beginning of the end, that they started really looking into, what he was doing. He was arrested in 2019, and then a month later he died in jail
[00:18:34] nicole: in terms of Alex Acosta, there was a huge controversy because Trump, Appointed him as the, uh, department of Labor secretary and he
[00:18:43] Jolene: in his first term.
[00:18:44] nicole: first term, and then in 2019 he resigned when all of this came back up because to him, he gave the best, plea deal he could at the time, which doesn't seem. Like that really adds up [00:19:00] considering. And the other thing, I have two things to, to, to think, to think about. Like, he had this New Mexico compound. Which did you read about that?
[00:19:12] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:13] nicole: chilling to me. He some of the mostly men, but men and women scientists, doctors. He was really a fan of eugenics and he was a fan of trans humanization and he wanted to create, a new sort of human and had plans to, make babies with these women. And I was a little unclear. Jolene, did he want to be the sperm donor or was he using the highest minds?
[00:19:39] Jolene: I thought it was that he wanted, like, he thought he, that was his sperm.
[00:19:44] nicole: you
[00:19:44] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:19:45] nicole: did the billionaires and surrogacy thing, I was like, oh, this is not a new thing.
[00:19:49] But, but
[00:19:50] Jolene: Right.
[00:19:51] nicole: compound has sort of been ignored and now they're trying to reopen what has been going on here. And
[00:19:58] and I think this was my number [00:20:00] one, uh, hot take. This is what doesn't make sense. Jolene, there were many women that were trafficked and used. so many people, implicated in the Epstein files, but no one had sex with these young girls.
[00:20:15] Not one. if these children, 'cause they're children, and there was just a BBC news article that I sent to you yesterday that you know, now that Pam Bondy is being subpoenaed, I. All of a sudden they found this, report that they thought was a duplicate, and it's says that Trump and Epstein knowingly had sex with a girl that was between 13 and 15 years old. It feels to me much more that the system is rigged the elite class, the, and that there's sort of this old boys and old girls club that is like, we don't get [00:21:00] touched.
[00:21:00] Like that woman, I'm forgetting her name, the woman that got charged, who's at Goldman Sachs, her name is, I'm gonna mispronounce her name. Her name is Catherine. Roomier I don't know where I saw this interview, but I was so startled when I heard it where she was like very frank about that time, if you didn't know Epstein, you were a loser.
[00:21:21] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:21:22] nicole: I guess I'm really naive, Jolene, I didn't really understand until. Investigating the ins and outs of this story. I guess I have higher hopes for people. I didn't realize. How many people are really power hungry, money hungry, wanting to be accepted in this group and will do anything they can and that there aren't a lot of people. I, mean, maybe it's super naive, but it's like, aren't there more whistleblowers out there?
[00:21:58] Jolene: even, but. But if you look [00:22:00] at the, the one article that you sent me, and I think it was from the New York Times, where the doctor from, um, Mount Sinai and how she was like, she was a girlfriend of, of Epstein's at one point, and then she married, I think she was in med school. She and Epstein were together, and then she became a doctor and married some other guy.
[00:22:23] But how much money Epstein gave to. Breast cancer, this breast cancer unit at Mount Sinai. And, and so I mean, you look at that and, and like, I absolutely not justifying this, but you're looking. And she's like, well, I don't know everything that he does, but I just know that he really helped my, cause I'm helping women, who might die from breast cancer.
[00:22:48] I'm helping them. And, and so in your mind, do you start. Um, justifying, you know, uh, I don't know where this money's coming from, but this money, I know this money is going to help [00:23:00] women or it's going to help people, or, you know, whatever it is.
[00:23:03] nicole: I mean, that's how
[00:23:03] Jolene: What,
[00:23:04] nicole: into those
[00:23:05] Jolene: uh,
[00:23:05] nicole: into the doctor's communities, these scientist communities. 'cause he'd give money and he seemed, oh my gosh, thank you. I'll do whatever you need. that was his game. Right?
[00:23:15] Jolene: then you look at people like, um, bill Gates, though. That, that's the one that just baffles me. because you just think that he's, um, and you just think he's this nerdy little, uh, but incredibly wealthy and smart person and he and his wife do so much philanthropy work and, um, you know, how many philanthropic endeavors have they both started and, and all that.
[00:23:44] And then he gets with Epstein so he can get with two Russian prostitutes and gets a disease from them And, Hey, by the way, I've got gonorrhea. Wow. I mean, you're Bill Gates like, couldn't you, like you are freaking [00:24:00] Bill Gates.
[00:24:00] nicole: thing, Jolene, I think a lot of these
[00:24:02] Jolene: Uh.
[00:24:02] nicole: they're just, they're like human beings. They, like you said, they're nerds. They started, they, they made a lot of money. They got a lot of power, and they have a lot of access. And so, if these guys didn't have. All this money, they wouldn't, they'd just be a guy I'm saying
[00:24:22] Jolene: these guys
[00:24:23] nicole: and these girls, like there's
[00:24:26] Jolene: yeah, there are a few women yeah. Involved with this as well. I have such a hard time with. Was it sex that brought him down? You know, I mean, like, is sex have we sexualized? Yeah. Like did No, no. Bill Gates, did Bill Gates have everything else except he couldn't get his freak on and so with his wife, and so he's like, I know where I can do it.
[00:24:49] I, I know, but my point being It's so concerning and disturbing to me of the freakish things that, I mean, even the people, some of the emails or texts [00:25:00] that, you know, have been released of people that we like, follow Dr. Adia on, um, that I,
[00:25:08] nicole: Dr. Peter Attia
[00:25:09] Jolene: He pawns And, and think that he, I, I
[00:25:12] nicole: Well, he
[00:25:13] Jolene: thought he was fantastic.
[00:25:14] nicole: pawns his wellness thing, and he's a scumbag.
[00:25:18] Jolene: the emails, oh my gosh. The stuff that he was saying was so disturbing. I'm like, what again? Like, is there's, is this, this, um, this deep seated sexual, I, I wanna call it? perverts I guess that that, that is so important that they're willing to give up everything that they have worked for.
[00:25:42] nicole: I don't think they think of it that way. I really don't. I mean, it's part of, part of it is our
[00:25:47] Jolene: culture and our
[00:25:48] nicole: society, like they have become these prominent figures like Peter Attia where we, you know, they have all these followers and we as a culture, hold them up. They're still a [00:26:00] human being and the more out, the more you know followers they get, the more money they get, the more self-important they get.
[00:26:07] I can't be touched. What's so completely moronic? Everybody is that emails are not private. It's not private, but you just get into this world of like, I can't be touched, or I'm really important or what
[00:26:21] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:22] nicole: like I can get away with it. Oh, I get in trouble. I'll just hire my lawyer like.
[00:26:26] Who's, who's gonna not believe me? I'm Peter Attia. Or, or I'm Bill Gates and maybe this is something that we should talk about, but. Human beings have sexual desires human beings have very different levels of sexual desires. And there's shame involved and there's, involved. And, and, I think that's sort of a. A separate conversation in a way. I think Jolene, it's more about power than it is about sex.
[00:26:57] Jolene: you could be right.
[00:26:58] nicole: girls, [00:27:00] obviously it's, it's exploitation. And what's so crazy to me, Joe, is just this entitlement.
[00:27:08] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:27:09] nicole: these girls untouchable and these girls don't matter.
[00:27:15] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:16] nicole: girls are, we can just throw them away.
[00:27:20] Jolene: Yep.
[00:27:20] nicole: beings. I, it's, it's, it's, it's startling to me. I think it's a power thing
[00:27:27] Jolene: no, I would agree with you, but I also think that it, I mean, I just go back to the, to the Les Wexner stuff I think the obsession with sex, I think that our society. Has probably become more obsessed with sex, than we were a hundred years ago.
[00:27:44] And
[00:27:44] nicole: I disagree.
[00:27:45] Jolene: so,
[00:27:46] nicole: I just don't
[00:27:47] Jolene: really
[00:27:47] nicole: I don't, I mean, when you read things, I think we've always been sexual beings. I think we've hypersexualized women. When, like I just remember being a little girl, little girl we, you know, in the [00:28:00] seventies watching Miss America. Why the fuck do we have a bathing suit contest.
[00:28:04] Jolene: sorry, Linda.
[00:28:05] nicole: Sorry, Linda. I was always like, huh,
[00:28:09] Jolene: Oh, I'm okay with that.
[00:28:12] nicole: well then that's interesting because to me
[00:28:14] Jolene: I'm okay be because I think it shows that, um, how well you've taken care of your body, that, that your body is your temple and.
[00:28:26] nicole: off to take to show
[00:28:27] Jolene: To see. No, I think it's to see how fit you are and to see that. Okay. Have you worked? It's, it's hard to be thin, it's hard to be fit. It's hard to be strong.
[00:28:38] And if you work at it, you should be. And if that's important to you, which it is to miss America. Then I think you should be able to show it and that you have worked at it. Because those who don't work at it, that's not important to them. And I'm not saying that's not okay, but if it were easy, everybody would be fit and [00:29:00] it's not.
[00:29:00] And so I think it just shows, how hard are you going to work at being muscular and strong
[00:29:09] nicole: I guess my point is that I think sex has always been there. I think kink has always been there, we talk about it or we don't talk about it. but I think that these class of people think that they're above the law.
[00:29:25] Jolene: You are right. I would agree.
[00:29:27] nicole: And I think that they don't look at these girls as being worthy of the same, uh, justice that they I mean, that's been since the, somehow it's like the beginning of time with. like you said, with women. feel like we're all over the map here, but I don't really, I think when we got on the conversation, this is a conversation.
[00:29:51] I don't know how to talk about this. Be right
[00:29:55] Jolene: Well, I agree.
[00:29:56] I mean, obviously there is, we've seen this on our, [00:30:00] um, from our. Comments than people that have given us on our show that, um, oh, Trump is deflecting all of, all of, with all of these other things that he's doing to, to deflect from the Epstein files.
[00:30:13] There are so many people who the most important we've talked about on our show, people have their thing that it means the most to. And there are people who think the Epstein files are the most important thing So the fact that it has become politicized because is Trump in there, is Pam Bondi redacting things or keeping files because Trump is in there. and then the other side of the coin then is, okay, there's a lot of things in there about a lot of different people, but it still doesn't implicate them. I mean, if, bill Gates had sex with Russian prostitutes, you know, did he give him money? Then that's, that it's illegal. If they weren't prostitutes, then it, did he do anything wrong?
[00:30:56] I, I mean, there's just, there, it's so hard to [00:31:00] prosecute. I think all of the evidence that, that, that is gonna come forth or has come forth in these files to be able to pinpoint where the wrongdoing is. And if you can prove that these girls were underaged and that people, these men or women were having sex with them and knew that they were underaged then that is a crime.
[00:31:20] But the only two people that have been prosecuted at this point for any crimes are Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell for prostitution, for human trafficking, for money laundering. To get anybody else. I, I think, has proven hard that the Biden, DOJ had this information and didn't find enough to prosecute.
[00:31:42] Now Trump is, DOJ has got this. We'll find out if, if Bondy can get, be grilled
[00:31:49] nicole: I
[00:31:49] Jolene: and, and find out.
[00:31:51] nicole: the, the way she's handled it and the fact that, all the men were redacted and the poor girls photographs and names gimme [00:32:00] a break. I just don't even understand it. It's like these poor women clearly, I don't think that this is fun for them.
[00:32:09] Jolene: Right.
[00:32:10] nicole: makes me think, well, of course they're telling the truth. Why would they do this to themselves, to their lives? And that they are just being completely ignored and dismissed and disrespected over and over and over again. It's just, think why, why people are also just, and there's republicans too that are having, mad at Bondi 'cause it's like, this should not be political. This is a human issue. Like for once, can we please stop fighting each other and actually investigate and protect these young women who are now like our age. You know, they've lived with this
[00:32:51] Jolene: Right.
[00:32:51] nicole: they've lived with this, their whole adult and childhood their whole life, and we can, and we still [00:33:00] have to just fight each other. Still,
[00:33:02] Jolene: Right.
[00:33:03] nicole: about the, you know, we'd already scheduled that we were gonna do this, this episode, and like, oh, Bondy's being subpoenaed again. And I'm like, Ugh, do I have it in me to watch her? Just, I'm just, she's disrespecting the
[00:33:17] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:33:17] nicole: Like, I'm just enough and let's actually raise up the human and. to figure this out because this is, the more we delved into this, Jolene, this is so disgusting it.
[00:33:32] Jolene: It just, it encompasses, like I said earlier, the most powerful people in the world. The fact that Epstein was able to weasel his way into these inner circles and, give, and whether it was sex, power, or money to these people in order to. Continue to feed his habit, is so disturbing.
[00:33:56] nicole: also encourage. Those of us that, listen [00:34:00] to this podcast read, to stop politicizing this issue, it's very clear that Biden's administration didn't, take it seriously enough. we all know that not an excuse for now. Like,
[00:34:13] Jolene: Yep.
[00:34:14] nicole: just deal with it now. And
[00:34:16] Jolene: Yep.
[00:34:16] nicole: if, I mean, who knows, I don't understand if Trump wants to be a hero, like he's getting involved in everybody's business around the world right now, which is, I don't even know what to say about all of it.
[00:34:30] He wants to take over everything. where it gives me pause, Jolene is, he could easily be the hero of this, but why isn't he?
[00:34:39] Jolene: Well, he has, he's, he has said, I'm the one that released the files. I released 30,000 documents. Now.
[00:34:47] nicole: me,
[00:34:47] Jolene: Now it's come out that
[00:34:49] nicole: but,
[00:34:50] Jolene: some have not, not, not everything has been released.
[00:34:53] nicole: not
[00:34:53] Jolene: Why?
[00:34:54] nicole: Why? And if he's in this document, like I, they're saying millions of times, I, [00:35:00] which makes me think was Epstein obsessed with Trump? Like, I don't understand unless what is
[00:35:06] Jolene: Well, if you were a New Yorker. If you were a New Yorker back in the nineties, Trump was probably the number one person that you would want in trying to get into that inner circle. But how many times did he go to the Clinton White House? What, 27 times he visited the Clinton White House? Well, there was another one that, but again, if there's not enough evidence, if, if people have poured over all of these documents and there's not enough evidence
[00:35:32] nicole: but Jolene, who were the clients? Who, if these girls are being trafficked, who are
[00:35:40] Jolene: Right.
[00:35:40] nicole: are they?
[00:35:42] Jolene: Right.
[00:35:43] nicole: of the famous, rich people partook except Andrew
[00:35:46] There's a photograph of her, like him, like straddling a young girl.
[00:35:51] I mean, ugh. But who
[00:35:53] Jolene: But I mean.
[00:35:54] nicole: Who are the clients?
[00:35:55] Jolene: Right. but that's what they've said. there are pictures that don't prove [00:36:00] wrongdoing. Are they inappropriate and disgusting? And the same with the texts and the emails. That's what, that's what this whole thing has come down to.
[00:36:07] There's not enough evidence to per to prosecute.
[00:36:11] nicole: But
[00:36:11] Jolene: And so.
[00:36:12] nicole: Jolene, do you remember that there's a Sultan that wrote an email that said, I really enjoy the torture video. Which made me think there's gotta be other video. gotta be, and where is it?
[00:36:26] Jolene: Yep.
[00:36:27] nicole: am not a conspiracy theorist. I've never thought about any of this stuff. But after reading all this stuff from reput, reputable, uh, journalistic sources, I'm like, oh my God, is disgusting.
[00:36:42] Jolene: I don't know where we go from here. I mean, I, I, I don't, I mean, if, if federal prosecutors that are unbiased are looking at this and have, don't, can't go anywhere with it than
[00:36:57] nicole: Are
[00:36:58] Jolene: is it just all a lesson.
[00:36:59] nicole: [00:37:00] Do we know that
[00:37:01] Jolene: Well, that's what I'm saying. Do we are, you know, does this, does this happen, you know, in another three years if we get a Democrat president in there and, uh,
[00:37:09] nicole: we need this to not be political,
[00:37:13] Jolene: yep. A hundred percent.
[00:37:15] nicole: so we can agree on that.
[00:37:17] Jolene: Yes.
[00:37:18] nicole: Y'all,
[00:37:19] Jolene: Yep.
[00:37:20] nicole: for listening. And, um, we'd love to hear your thoughts, your ideas. Uh, you can comment on our YouTube page. You can, um, DM us on Instagram. You can write us on Facebook. Uh, you can write to me personally on LinkedIn. We'd love to hear your thoughts because we've avoided this topic honestly.
[00:37:43] 'cause it's just,
[00:37:44] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:37:47] nicole: I don't, I don't wanna even wanna say just 'cause I'm a woman. I think it's just so humanly disturbing and it brings out the, it shows the ugliest part of us. And I just think it would be so important [00:38:00] to take politics aside of this.
[00:38:02] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:03] nicole: political. Like, let's give these women, they're due.
[00:38:08] Jolene: Yep. 100%. I agree.
[00:38:11] nicole: do you have a, would you rather.
[00:38:13] Jolene: Well, I do. And it's along these lines,
[00:38:17] nicole: Mine isn't
[00:38:24] Jolene: Would you rather see the footage of the jail cell the night that Epstein died? Or see all the redacted info from all the files? You
[00:38:36] nicole: I'd rather see all the redacted info of all the files.
[00:38:41] Jolene: You don't wanna know what happened to him.
[00:38:44] nicole: No, I don't care.
[00:38:47] Jolene: Really?
[00:38:47] nicole: wanna know. I wanna know what he did. seems quite fishy that he killed himself.
[00:38:53] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:38:54] nicole: And if I saw that, I'd be like, okay, what happened? What [00:39:00] happened? I'm really tired of the elite being protected and the victims being shamed. So, yeah, I wanna know, I wanna know it all.
[00:39:10] Jolene: Oh God. But I mean, then you'd have all, you'd have to look at it all.
[00:39:15] nicole: have to look at it all, but somebody's looking at them I mean, it seems like it would take years to look at it considering how much
[00:39:20] Jolene: stuff they
[00:39:21] nicole: have.
[00:39:22] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:39:23] nicole: To me it's like, I, this is, it seems evidence enough you have billion, you have millions and millions of pages of, this guy is a bad dude, and what he did
[00:39:32] Jolene: was bad
[00:39:33] nicole: He didn't
[00:39:33] Jolene: do it alone
[00:39:34] nicole: That's the, I guess that's my point.
[00:39:37] Jolene: And he didn't
[00:39:37] nicole: just do it with one woman, There, there are lots of people in this situation, there's that are culpable and they're not being held accountable.
[00:39:46] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:39:46] nicole: Would you rather be so afraid of heights? That you can't go to the second floor or be so afraid of the sun, [00:40:00] that you can only leave the house on rainy days.
[00:40:04] Jolene: Oh God. Hi. Come on. Where are you coming up? You are not coming up with these on your own.
[00:40:09] nicole: a little help. This one, I got a little hope. Listen, I, I was like, I'm so bummed out by this topic. Like I, just needed to
[00:40:18] Jolene: I know.
[00:40:18] nicole: weird.
[00:40:19] Jolene: I don't wanna be afraid of the sun, so I guess I'm afraid of heights. Either way, I can't leave my house. I have a two story house. So I mean,
[00:40:28] nicole: thinking about that.
[00:40:28] Jolene: do I,
[00:40:29] nicole: about that.
[00:40:30] Jolene: do I leave the,
[00:40:30] nicole: but you
[00:40:31] Jolene: do I not go upstairs?
[00:40:33] nicole: really just hold onto real tight. Maybe Jeff can create like a harness for you to get up the
[00:40:41] Jolene: A leash. A leash if you will
[00:40:43] nicole: God. Okay. Now we're
[00:40:44] Jolene: now. And here we go.
[00:40:45] nicole: we are. Wow. Wow. Okay.
[00:40:52] Jolene: Thank you everybody. Thank you for listening. Thank you for, uh, being a part of our community. Please share, [00:41:00] like, subscribe, that helps us get our word out and, uh, we appreciate you being here.
[00:41:05] nicole: you so much. Thank you, Jolene.
[00:41:06]
