Extremism, Protests & Free Speech
Some protests are about justice. Some are about grief. Some are about rage. And some cross a line so fast you barely have time to process what you are looking at.
That was the feeling we had watching footage from protests in Washington Square Park. Not because protest itself is shocking. Protest is part of public life. It is part of democracy. People should be able to gather, speak, chant, disagree, and make noise. But when you see people glorifying authoritarian figures who brutalized their own people, or waving symbols they do not seem to fully understand, it raises a harder question.
At what point does protest stop being protest and start becoming something darker?
That is where this conversation went. Not into easy answers, because there are not many. But into the uncomfortable middle. The place where free speech matters, hate speech is real, and public outrage can be both justified and deeply manipulated. We (Nicole and Jolene) come at this from different political instincts, but we were both trying to make sense of the same thing: how people get pulled into extreme movements, and why so much modern activism feels less like dialogue and more like performance, tribalism, or emotional contagion.
One of the hardest parts of this conversation was acknowledging how quickly fear and ignorance can turn into hatred. Anti-Semitism rises. Anti-Muslim sentiment rises. People start treating entire groups as symbols instead of human beings. And once that happens, it gets easier to justify almost anything. That is the part that should worry all of us. Not just the slogans. Not just the signs. The speed at which people stop seeing each other clearly.
Jolene raised a point that I think many conservatives would recognize: protest culture in America often feels closely associated with the left. Not because conservatives never mobilize, but because they tend to express political energy differently. Through voting. Through donations. Through quieter forms of alignment. January 6th obviously sits outside that pattern, and no, you cannot just wave that away, but it is still true that large-scale street protest has become more culturally embedded on one side than the other.
From my side, the internet changed everything. Protests do not emerge in the same way they used to. They are amplified faster, funded more strategically, and emotionally escalated in real time. A protest can begin with a legitimate concern and within hours become a stage for misinformation, social pressure, and ideological theatre. The crowd becomes its own feedback loop. The loudest message wins. Nuance gets trampled somewhere near the back.
And that is what makes this so difficult to talk about. Because many people involved in organizing genuinely do care. They want justice. They want awareness. They want to protect people they believe are being harmed. But good intentions do not make movements immune to manipulation. Funding matters. Messaging matters. Incentives matter. Once a cause becomes a machine, you have to ask who is steering it and what they gain from keeping people angry.
That question applies across the board, by the way. Political money is not a left-wing problem or a right-wing problem. It is a power problem. If there is a movement with enough emotional charge, someone will try to shape it, fund it, brand it, and use it. That does not mean every protest is fake. It means very few are untouched by strategy. And if you are not asking who benefits, you are probably missing half the story.
What we kept coming back to was dehumanization. That is the real warning sign. When people stop seeing opponents as people, extremism gets a foothold. When every disagreement becomes proof of evil, cruelty starts to feel righteous. And when that happens, free speech itself becomes harder to defend, because people no longer want open debate. They want punishment. They want silence. They want their side to win.
That is the fine line, isn’t it? Free speech has to include speech we sometimes don’t like, or it is not really free speech. But a healthy society also has to be honest about the damage that hateful rhetoric can do when it is repeated, rewarded, and normalised. That tension is real and we both have a hard time coming to terms with where America is right now.
We don’t have any answers here. This was a very hard topic to discuss because at its core, I believe protests can do a lot of good, but right now they’re not effective and we’re not getting anywhere.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Washington Square Park Protest: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DV5CHOADH2J/?igsh=YXhiMjJ0bHVuYmhl
Mo News - Americans Morally Bad:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DWCnC0wicdw/
Nate Friedman Show:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DVxOUD_jJbj/
544 Days Podcast:
https://crooked.com/podcast-series/544-days/
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:19] Welcome to, we've got to talk. Hello, Jolene.
[00:00:23] Jolene: Hello, Nicole. Thank you for
[00:00:24] nicole: you for.
[00:00:25] Jolene: us on. We've got to Talk Today we are talking about extremists and whether that is hate speech versus free speech, if that's the protest that we've seen in America. I think for both of us, this is going to be a conversation about the left and the right and what we see as extreme and what, what role does that play and how does that help us or how does it hurt us? So, Nicole, start us off.
[00:00:49] nicole: both of us watched this MO news clip it was in regards to a Washington Square Park protest, which is in New York City. [00:01:00] It's right next to the NYU campus. And, I think we were both totally flabbergasted by this. Protest.
[00:01:08] Here, say it loud. Say it. Say it loud and say it
[00:01:18] here. Say it. Say it loud. Say it.
[00:01:25] Headphones.
[00:01:32] Forma here. We for Haah here. Stay. Stay clear. Stay it clear. We forma here. We support Herma here. New York City. You'll see New York City, you'll see fall. Will be free. Star will be free. It's right to rebel. It's right to rebel. [00:02:00] Usaa.
[00:02:01] nicole: these are my three hot takes. number one, grows from fear and ignorance of the unknown.
[00:02:08] the rise in anti-Muslim and anti-Semitism rose drastically between February 28th. March 5th, the first five days of the conflict. At that time, over 25,000 Islamophobic posts were posted on social media and there was a 34% increase in antisemitism incidents in the same. Period. Uh, this hate is, es has continually escalated since October 7th.
[00:02:39] Um, so it's not been just like this immediate, we hate Jews and we hate Muslims. It's been growing at a pretty steady pace since the, uh, October 7th attack on Israel where the. Statistics I was seeing is that there's been a 69% jump in Muslim hate and a 400% [00:03:00] jump in antisemitic hate,
[00:03:03] Jolene: Jewish hate.
[00:03:04] nicole: Jewish hate number two. so watching this video, Jolene, I was totally flabbergasted. We live in this country where free speech is protected. but the wild part was we're watching these people holding up signs like glorifying the supreme leader that had, slaughtered people for 47 years holding Hezbollah sign, uh, flags, holding a Hamas flags.
[00:03:31] And I just thought, what do you. Protesting because if you were in the streets of Iran, you would be slaughtered and you are glorifying these people that don't allow anyone to live freely. And yet in January in the, in January when the Iranians were rising up and 30,000, over 30,000 people were slaughtered.
[00:03:58] Where were you? Where [00:04:00] were you? In the streets of America. So
[00:04:01] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:04:02] nicole: was. That's crazy to me. and lastly, number three. So I Googled a lot to look up who these groups were, who, who were, who were organizing these protests. A lot of the, um, groups I can, I can, you know, share them with you. Um, I had never heard of,
[00:04:23] So I decided, you know, not, I'm only gonna look them up, I'm gonna look at their websites, I'm gonna see what they're selling. my takeaway was I.
[00:04:30] A lot of these people, I think, honestly start with good intentions but the takeaway was that their just, people were really lost and people were seeking a sense of belonging, but then they would get caught up and justify horrible violence. And I feel like we've just lost each other. We've lost the humanity in each other.
[00:04:55] Jolene: I looked at this kind of from a different perspective. I think as a Republican, [00:05:00] you and I have talked about protests before. You just don't see a lot of Republicans protesting. That seems to be a,
[00:05:06] nicole: January 6th.
[00:05:07] Jolene: Democrat. Uh, okay. One, there's one.
[00:05:11] nicole: It was a big one, but yeah, maybe, maybe not in your, in your realm.
[00:05:17] Jolene: like, I just don't think that, I mean, you see protests, it's usually from the left I think Democrats feel like move the needle. And so I, I am, I'm really intrigued by that because, and why do Democrats do it and Republicans don't, you know, what, do Republicans do, to, you know, get a ground swell empathy or, you know, support for whatever their causes are.
[00:05:41] So I really focused on. kind of how this protest, organization works. and what I have found. Is the, it's a relatively small ecosystem of organizations that are experienced in organizing protests there's a process there. [00:06:00] They, you know, they train, they organizers, they build email and text lists, and then they. Maintain their volunteer networks and, and they know how to get permits and they know how to get the media coverage and who to reach out to. And then they ask for, they ask for donations because they've gotten the media attention and then they go to the next one. And I mean, honestly, it's, it's a well oiled machine because a lot of these issues, um, whether it's climate, Gaza, ice, the networks overlap.
[00:06:31] And so there's a lot of. in, you know, and so it's easy to activate the machine to go to the next event. and that's why you see, you know, signs that are similar and slogans that are similar and, and how you can get into multiple cities all at once. I mean, and some of the, the. Articles that I read, that any, you can activate a protest within 24 to 48 hours nationwide because it is a well-oiled machine. [00:07:00] Now I'm gonna push back on the Republicans who say that these are paid protestors. it's a big talking point for Republicans and, and there could be, and, and, and I'd like to talk about. Um, you know, some of the funding from, from extremely wealthy democrats that, um, that support organizations that then can give money to, some of these community organizers.
[00:07:23] But to say that these are paid protestors, I don't think we've seen any evidence of that. If we have, I, I would love to see it. know, I, I think that they have, um, they are well funded, um, maybe at the top to be able to, to continue this, um. These protests. So it, it also makes you wonder how effective is that? I, it's, it's obviously effective because you see a lot of it, whether it's at college campuses or you know, the ICE situation in Minnesota or in New York. Um, it, it gets a lot of attention.
[00:07:57] nicole: So Jolene, when you saw this [00:08:00] video, your takeaways were much more about, I'm gathering, forget, please correct me if I'm wrong,
[00:08:06] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:08:07] nicole: about like, what is this protesting thing? I'm trying to understand how it works, why there's signs, look this, like you were looking at it more about that versus thinking, like what were your takeaways from it?
[00:08:19] Jolene: how anybody in America is supporting Hamas or, or, or Hezbollah. number one, why are you in America if that, and that was the thing in this video too, I felt like these were Americans, you know, these weren't people who were, who were immigrants that had, you know, had come from Iran or that were part of the Hezbollah or, or, um, Hamas, organizations that somehow found themselves in America.
[00:08:46] No. If you've come to America, what don't you like about America that that makes you
[00:08:53] nicole: Well, what was confuse? I mean, I felt the whole thing was super confusing. because we had talked about in previous [00:09:00] episodes, when the United States and Israel went to war with Iran, we were. Not understanding, you know, the history of like when, the Iranians were protesting their government in January and where were the protestors, the American protestors.
[00:09:17] And we did not see them at that point. And we had seen several videos, of Iranian people at the protest saying. what are you protesting? You don't understand anything about my country. that was quite frankly startling too that one woman in particular, I felt so sad for her
[00:09:37] She has family in Iran still that she talks to every day. All my family, all my friends, they are in Iran. I still can talk to them sometimes when they have internet and I, none of these guys, none of them, they are Iranian. We are, I'm Iranian. I know better than all of this people in Europe. They're happy.
[00:09:58] They're fucking happy because [00:10:00] 47 years they fight against this regime. We tried, we tried to protest to change this regime, but we couldn't because they killed more than 50,000 people just in two days, just in fucking two days. So right now, the only way, the only way that we get off this regime is this far.
[00:10:21] So please, please just shut the fuck up. If you don't know about my country. Don't talk about my country. That's it.
[00:10:28] nicole: I went to protest pretty young. and I do remember, and this is like being in college when we had newspapers and you were looking for a job summer job, there were a lot of activists jobs where they were recruit. College kids 'cause they're smart and passionate and poor and you can pay pay
[00:10:51] Jolene: cause.
[00:10:52] nicole: and you can.
[00:10:52] Yeah. And you can pay them to help you. And I remember those one ATS But I mean, there are obviously people that are [00:11:00] professional activists that they feel, whether it's their moral duty, their calling, that, you know, in all the sites have donations.
[00:11:10] How do they, how do they exist other than by donation or grants, I suppose. and it occurred to me, I was like, oh. This really hasn't been part of Jolene's world like this would make sense to me that it wouldn't make sense to you. there are a lot of conspiracy theories about, who's funding what. That being said, it's a lot less grassroots than it used to be because by virtue of the internet,
[00:11:40] Jolene: Social
[00:11:41] nicole: can, right, they can, people can uprise. Um, I mean, the Arab Spring, that was all Facebook and I don't know how funded it was, but that was a pretty organic situation.
[00:11:53] Now we're in, now we're in a place where. Yes, there are more well-oiled machines [00:12:00] where they, someone sees an injustice and they get out there. Now, I, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories that said politics is well funded. We know this, the lobbyist rule, and you've told me from the very beginning of this podcast, follow the money.
[00:12:18] And so for the, so now liberal Democrat, I'm like, I look at things a little differently and go, well, maybe
[00:12:26] Jolene: it?
[00:12:27] nicole: funding it? Like who's behind it and I think what's, what's chilling about all of this is, Number one, we're not listening to each other at all. Everyone is so dug in to their own.
[00:12:42] Cause whatever that cause may be that it doesn't make any sense. Like, why are these people in the streets of New York City and there, I mean, there were cities all over, that day, protesting for. Terrorist [00:13:00] organization or organizations that would, if they had their way, kill them, they'd just kill them.
[00:13:06] Jolene: America. Death to Israel.
[00:13:07] nicole: Death, death, death to anyone that doesn't bow down to them. And I'm, I'm with you. Like if that's really what you feel truly, if that's truly like you have, you have studied what they're about, studied Hamas. You're like, these are my people studied Hezbollah. These are my people. Then, yeah, I don't think you should be here either. now that said, when you, 'cause you talk about America being this great country and sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't. We are founded on free speech, which, you know, I was reading about it too 'cause I was like, this seems crazy to me that they're allowed to say it. But the idea of like free speech and hate speech is that.
[00:13:53] They, there has to be a, an act of, this is going to instigate a through [00:14:00] line to violence and then it becomes illegal.
[00:14:03] Jolene: Fire in a theater yelling, fire in a theater. but don't you think Death to America, that that is, isn't that like saying fire in a
[00:14:11] nicole: I don't, I don't, I mean, listen, I'm not a lawyer. I'm married to one, and so I can't really, anytime we get into this territory, I'm like, shut your mouth, Nicole, because you don't know what you're talking about. And that's where we get into serious trouble. I think that's a problem. But, but we, as we saw it in Charlottesville with the guys, with the Tiki who you know are k, k, K people, they say a lot of like really.
[00:14:36] Bad shit. they're protected by free speech too. So it's these extremes that, as we've talked about many, many times, that they dominate social media. Tho those are the loudest voices. They are not most of us, whether you're on the right or the left, or you know, in the middle. But it's, you know, here we are
[00:14:58] Jews and Muslims, they [00:15:00] get the hate. They get the hate. After September 11th, if you were brown, if you were Muslim, it was not a good time for you here in the in the States. And if people had no experience with a Muslim person, they decided that they were all terrorists,
[00:15:18] Jolene: but isn't that, such a, an easy argument to make when you look at the last three. Incidents that have happened recently, the, the killing of, um, at Old Dominion,
[00:15:32] nicole: Yeah, but see, I, I see, but that.
[00:15:35] Jolene: Muslim or the, the Jewish synagogue in Michigan and the guy in Austin who shot up a, a bar. I mean, those, all of those people were tied to Islam extremists.
[00:15:50] nicole: To Islam extremists. I mean, that's the thing. It's like, from my understanding, being a Muslim. if you're following the faith, they're a very [00:16:00] peaceful person. Just like I would imagine if you follow Christianity, that you could be a very peaceful person if you follow Judaism.
[00:16:08] You're a very peaceful person. And then these people, these like, I mean,
[00:16:15] Jolene: Extremists
[00:16:16] nicole: they're crazy.
[00:16:18] Jolene: right.
[00:16:19] nicole: They're crazy and they get brainwashed, whether it's, it's in the name of Islam, but I would ask any Muslim person. They're like, that's not what my religion is about. Uh, you know, or, you know, people that are def, I don't know, defending hateful things that are like Christians, you're, and I'm sure you'd be like, that's not the Christianity I follow.
[00:16:46] So it's these people that. In the name of religion, they, they paint this picture. And if you're not familiar with what a Muslim is or what a Jewish person is, or like, [00:17:00] everyone has decided that if you, that the people that hate, Netanyahu, that all Jews are him. how is that fair? Right?
[00:17:09] Jolene: do you think that protests are effective?
[00:17:13] nicole: you not, and I, I have changed since I've gotten older. I.
[00:17:17] Jolene: the What's the intent of a protest?
[00:17:19] nicole: uh, the intent of a protest is to raise awareness of a subject. I protested the Iraq War in 2003. 3 in New York City and there were tens of thousands of people in the streets and no one covered it.
[00:17:33] And I felt so, um, disillusioned and disappointed. and this was of course before, you know, smartphones. So if a, if a news organization didn't cover it, you're shit outta luck. That's it. That's it. You're done. Like, and so when you're on the ground with communing with. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, depending what the march [00:18:00] is.
[00:18:00] It can feel amazing. Like you're, like, you feel like there is purpose, um, that you're quote unquote doing something. I personally think, okay, what's the next step? Now how do you move forward? How do you push your congress person, push your, senator, maybe you run for office. Like really do something.
[00:18:24] Jolene: do you think it's for the money then?
[00:18:26] if you're a professional community organizer
[00:18:29] if you're getting paid by a, a philanthropic organization that believes, let's say climate change and so they hire. Professional community organizers to, you know, to get people together, to rally and they train them and they, provide the money for legal aid if they get arrested and you know, all the things. But it's not really effective until they get media coverage and then they can go back out and then go to their base [00:19:00] and say, this is such a huge deal and we, and we see this huge protest, and all of these people want change. Are you going to contribute to it? Because like you said, in the one that you were. A part of you didn't get any media attention, and so it just kind of went,
[00:19:18] nicole: I mean, I mean other, I mean other ones There was the protest I told you about where it was the Muslim ban in Brooklyn and people were angry. Uh, we were angry that, Trump term one was, calling for this Muslim ban. And so in that case it was, you know, we went to the courthouse and we. tens of thousands of people bodies saying, saying this isn't, this isn't okay, and we don't agree with this. And they actually were able to get a, injunction. And while we were standing there, and that was shocking. I looked at Josh and I was like, uh, this [00:20:00] doesn't ever happen.
[00:20:01] And you know, and everyone cheered and was excited and felt like they helped. I mean, here's the, I'm just saying that, do you asked me if I think that they work? They can raise awareness to people. I think people that are community organizers, I think they believe in what they, I really think they're passionate oh i'm sure
[00:20:21] Jolene: they are.
[00:20:22] nicole: and I don't think they get paid very much.
[00:20:24] So I think it is a labor of love that they feel that they, and you disagree. I you just, hmm.
[00:20:30] Jolene: I mean, maybe we don't know. I that, I mean, that's the whole thing because it, because the money, if you talk about George Soro, George Soros or Nordine Kiwani, um, is another one for, uh, within our lifetime. And there's the Wespac, um, foundation. There are a lot of really well-funded philanthropic organizations,
[00:20:52] nicole: Yeah.
[00:20:53] Jolene: different from political action committee because a, a, if you're a philanthropic, if you're a 5 0 1 C3, you can't [00:21:00] support a particular candidate you, so that is different from PACS and Super pacs that are trying to change legislation.
[00:21:07] Right. if you're not a 5 0 1 C3 and you don't have to divulge your, um, what you spend your money on, could be a lot of money going to these organizations. And we, no money trail, we don't know who's getting paid what. You know, there was, I remember during Black Lives Matter, there was that whole, the woman who started the Black Lives Matter, then everybody was up in arms 'cause she was spending money on mansions and da da da. And I know you and I talked about that. And then they were like, okay, no, wasn't really a mansion. She bought this house and did she use it with those funds?
[00:21:40] Okay. No, I don't, you couldn't really trace it to that. She used funds from that. So there's just, there's a lot of gray area I don't think that we really know. But when you've got somebody like George Soros, who's. Given, I, I think his, um, open Society [00:22:00] Foundation is worth 14 billion with a B would, you've got that kind of money. I feel like you could give a lot of money to the organizations that align with
[00:22:10] nicole: Well look what, what's his bucket? Did Elon Musk funded Trump? Elon Musk supported Donald Trump's 2024 presidential campaign with at least 250 million to over $290 million. Primarily through his Super Pac, America pac. So this is occurring to me as, again, I, I think I had this whole idea we were gonna talk, we talk about hate, but clearly we're, that's the thing about sometimes in these podcasts is like, you gotta listen.
[00:22:46] I mean, and that's part of the deal is that Jolene teaches me things and I teach her things and we're like, okay, I guess this is where this conversation is going. So. So thinking about this and you're saying, well, do Republicans protest? And I'm saying [00:23:00] January 6th is a really good example of when they did, but otherwise, what do they do?
[00:23:05] Well, a lot of Republicans donate a lot of money to get their, their person into office to help change things,
[00:23:13] Jolene: Effect change that
[00:23:15] nicole: affect change that way.
[00:23:16] Jolene: yeah, and
[00:23:17] nicole: I mean.
[00:23:17] Jolene: I mean, I
[00:23:18] nicole: Democrats do it too. I agree. I agree. And, and you know, I, I mean, you could call the Charlie Kirk events. That you could call in some way a form of protest.
[00:23:31] It's a gathering. It's a gathering of people who are passionate about expressing themselves or being with other people like themselves. It is a, it is, I think, a lot of times protest is also just we're starving for community and we're starving to be able to, possibly do something.
[00:23:51] Jolene: Okay. But, but I'm gonna go back to my, my original question because I think, and even talking about, uh, turning point USA, think. [00:24:00] Is another example of this is isn't that where they get their money? If when you have a protest if you have a turning point, rally. Isn't the objective, not only to share the ideology and you know, the, the core foundation, the principles of, whatever it is that you're espousing, but it's also then to gather all these people to show others so that you can reach out to others and say, We gotta continue this. We've gotta have more money so that we can continue spreading this message. And we need your help because look how many people showed up. Look at the news coverage that we got. Look at the media coverage. Look at all the of the tiktoks and the Snapchats and the Instagram, because we need more money,
[00:24:47] I think it's all money driven,
[00:24:49] nicole: I think maybe it started as purpose
[00:24:54] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:24:54] nicole: any side, right, left, right, center, extreme. I wanna do something about [00:25:00] this subject,
[00:25:00] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:25:01] nicole: climate change, um, Iran war, the Israeli Palestinian war, whatever it might be. I'm hoping it starts in much more of a pure form. I can't speak for Charlie Kirk, that, that maybe it was like, Hey, I want to give conservatives more of a voice. Maybe that's where it started. I don't know. I'm not feeling heard. I want, I think there's other people in my conservative ilk that would also agree. 'cause he started as just as a kid doing his thing, just like
[00:25:34] Jolene: started on college campuses
[00:25:35] nicole: right.
[00:25:36] Jolene: like that was an underserved community that was only hearing the left, not the right.
[00:25:42] nicole: So he started from, it sounds like a place of passion. A place of purpose, and You can't survive without money, right. In this culture. But then it can get. Crazy. I just was completely flabbergasted by this [00:26:00] particular protest. when I would see the Israeli Gaza conflict protest the Palestinian protests, and they would fly Hamas flags.
[00:26:16] We've talked about this before. I'm like, do you understand what you're flying?
[00:26:20] Jolene: No,
[00:26:21] nicole: you, and that's the thing. I don't think these, I don't think a lot of these pe these kids understand what is happening here.
[00:26:28] Jolene: do they see this as just being anti-Trump? And so they want to, whatever Trump is saying, they want to do the complete opposite. So they're going, no, we support Gaza. We support Hamas, we support, and you're like. you have no idea what you're even talking about. We support Iran regime, the res, the Islamic regime, and because it's just opposite Trump.
[00:26:54] Or number two, and especially with these recent, violence against Jews, is it [00:27:00] a way to get radicalized? Is it, is it another way to radicalize someone I think we keep hearing about these people who can, who get online and get radicalized online and, and I don't know what that means.
[00:27:12] I don't, I. Uh, and I talked about this privately, like, are there secret websites that, can you just Google? How do you get radicalized? I, I, I have no idea. But the point being is, is this another form of getting radicalized?
[00:27:29] nicole: Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying like, radicalized in person, these, these people that are, I could absolutely understand if you wanna protest that you don't like that we, that we started the war with, with Israel in a, and Iran. You protest that? Absolutely. You don't like the school was bombed and those poor girls were killed.
[00:27:55] Protest that. That makes sense, right? Like [00:28:00] you don't like Trump. Fine protest that. But to say,
[00:28:04] you're holding up the Supreme leader who. Slaughtered. how many hundreds of thousands of people in the 47 years that he was a leader.
[00:28:15] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:28:16] nicole: hanged gay people. He like stoned women. you're holding him up like he's a martyr. What's that? And I would agree with you, Jolene, that feels fairly radical.
[00:28:30] It feels fairly radical. Why, why is this happening? Or I wanna give people the benefit doubt I want. I don't wanna think that they don't know. So, but why
[00:28:44] Jolene: is it money? Are they getting paid?
[00:28:47] nicole: the kids? I don't think the kids are getting paid. They're just out there like mad.
[00:28:51] Jolene: but you just said you, but you just said that you saw the ads
[00:28:55] nicole: Oh, oh, no, no, no, no. Those are like helping organize versus [00:29:00] like
[00:29:00] thousands of kids participating. That is like being a community organizer. Like, what's it for?
[00:29:07] Jolene: I wish we had the answer
[00:29:09] nicole: I'm watching that Iranian woman. Like so emotional saying, what are you guys doing? You have no idea what this man has done to our country. Like what do you, and, and maybe they are being radicalized from even Instagram, TikTok, people like, I don't know.
[00:29:30] I'm very sensitive to, Stereotyping and generalizing and, you know, hating someone because they don't look like you or they don't pray like you. I don't understand. I don't, I don't.
[00:29:47] Jolene: I would agree with you. I, I would say the same thing. I don't think there's a Republican, I mean, again, as a generalization that believes that, Just because of who you pray to [00:30:00] or who you, what you look like? obviously there are racists out there, but, but I don't know that anybody has an understanding of, or a good understanding of, of why anybody would, would to accept an ideology that says Death to America. When you're standing in America,
[00:30:22] nicole: you saw the, the MO news thing today
[00:30:24] Jolene: The US is the only country where a majority of of adults, 53% view their fellow citizens as morally bad. According to a Pew research survey of 25 countries,
[00:30:38] nicole: if that is correct, if that's what's happening in the United States, I mean, that births hate if you, if I have dehumanized you, I've made you morally bad. You Jewish person, you Muslim person, you are morally bad. I hate you. I can commit violence against you and feel [00:31:00] morally justified. as Americans right now with social media, with all the things that maybe we're all a little radicalized because that's crazy time y'all.
[00:31:10] Jolene: Ah,
[00:31:11] nicole: liberal Democrat knows. That just because you don't believe what I believe or you think differently, I don't think you're morally bad
[00:31:21] Jolene: I
[00:31:21] nicole: and, and a story. Right.
[00:31:23] Jolene: The big picture, again, this is for MO News, Democrats and Democratic leaning Americans, 60% were more likely than Republicans and Republican leaning Americans at 46% to view fellow CI citizens as morally bad. A partisan split found in, uh oh, a partisan split found in other countries as well that, that your political views,
[00:31:45] Define your, your morals, your ethics, your, I mean.
[00:31:49] nicole: Mm-hmm. It's all about, I mean, I guess maybe the whole conversation today is about the dehumanization of each other, [00:32:00] And that's what Iran does. That's how they led their country. They dehumanized everyone, and if you didn't believe in what they believe, then you're dead. That's it.
[00:32:09] Jolene: with you.
[00:32:10] nicole: You're dead. You, you get thrown in jail. there's an amazing, uh, podcast that I'm just gonna recommend and I'm gonna throw it in the show notes, um, called 544 Days.
[00:32:22] And Jolene, I don't think I've recommended it to you yet. It's, it's an amazing podcast that I've been listening to for the last couple weeks. It's one season. It's this guy Jason Rezaian. Who was American and, uh, Iranian, but born and raised in America. And then he went to Iran and he, was a journalist, but he would write about food and culture and music.
[00:32:45] And he married an Iranian woman and he got, they got arrested. And he was thrown in jail for 544 days and his wife was also thrown in jail. Um, and it's their, it's his story and it's considering, I [00:33:00] started watching or listening to it, I think right when, uh, we started the war with Iran and it's been such an education. What's going on there, and I'm not thinking that anyone that is in that protest that was holding a Hezbollah flag or Hamas flag is listening or watching this podcast. But if you are, I would suggest that you listen to this 544 days and. Start to understand what's, what really goes on in that country and in with that government.
[00:33:33] And, um, you might not walk the streets of New York City holding that flag because it also just makes me feel sad for like, why are you in that position? Why, like, are you that lost that you're fighting for killers?
[00:33:52] Jolene: Right. It doesn't make sense.
[00:33:55] nicole: It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. do you have any other thoughts about [00:34:00] today?
[00:34:00] Jolene: No, didn't even wanna do this. I did. This was such a, this was such a crappy topic.
[00:34:08] nicole: What hate,
[00:34:08] Jolene: had to do.
[00:34:09] nicole: hate?
[00:34:10] Jolene: It's one that, yeah, a hate and protest. It's just all, it's all so negative. Like there's not a. There's not a positive outcome.
[00:34:19] nicole: Well, there's a positive outcome in that podcast that I, that I just suggested that's positive.
[00:34:25] Jolene: great.
[00:34:25] nicole: positive that you and I are talking about it.
[00:34:27] Jolene: Thank you for your glass being half full.
[00:34:30] nicole: Listen, this stuff's, this stuff sucks. as a like. Half Jewish person having half of my people and so many of my friends that are Jewish, and there's such a rise in antisemitism. It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart, my friends that are Muslim. It breaks my heart. I have been lucky enough in my life to have been born and exposed to all different kinds of cultures, and I'm so incredibly [00:35:00] grateful that I have this rich experience and I really love learning about different cultures, and it just makes me so sad when we are in a country.
[00:35:13] That, is so frightened of each other clearly there are people that are really hurting so much that they get radicalized and then commit violence.
[00:35:24] I, the positive is it's, it's not all of us. Those are the extremes. And that's, but unfortunately like that is what we see. And when you look on social media, everybody and you just see that it really is disconcerting that you think, oh my God, our world, it's part of our world. It's not all the world.
[00:35:45] Jolene: Do you have a, would you rather
[00:35:46] nicole: I do.
[00:35:48] Jolene: Let's hear it.
[00:35:49]
[00:35:54] nicole: Would you rather have no more hate crimes of any [00:36:00] kind or. Never be able to vote for a Republican again.
[00:36:10] Jolene: Oh girl. Wow. okay. I guess for the, for the betterment of humanity, I'm going with no more hate crimes. I'm sorry. I hope my candidates don't lose by one vote. I'll still put a sign in my yard for you, or I guess I've never contributed to a
[00:36:28] nicole: No you haven't.
[00:36:30] Jolene: yet, but.
[00:36:32] nicole: there you go. I appreciate that. I appreciate that answer that you, yes, there you go. You just cured it. You just cur for a Republican.
[00:36:43] Jolene: for a Republican so that you all can have no more hate. Nickel. Would you rather in a protest that blocks traffic in New York City for one hour or stand in a TSA line for [00:37:00] three hours? Got two hot topics
[00:37:04] nicole: I'm, I'm in the protest or I'm.
[00:37:07] Jolene: Nope. You're in the protest
[00:37:08] nicole: I'd rather be in the protest i'd. I know it's not nice, but listen,
[00:37:14] Jolene: Oh,
[00:37:14] nicole: New York City.
[00:37:15] Jolene: at you.
[00:37:15] nicole: I know New York City has traffic all the time. All the time. Listen, I lived across the street from Occupy Wall Street when that happened for months. I understood what they were doing, and then it was annoying and whatever, whatever.
[00:37:31] Jolene: that
[00:37:31] nicole: But you, you, you, you, you, yeah. You work through it, you know, uh, an hour. Those TSA lines, God bless 'em. We need to, we need to figure this out. Democrats and Republicans come on these poor TSA people like and And write something. Yeah. And write something in it so that TSA people get paid. It's another topic, but if ice people are getting paid TSA, people should get paid.
[00:37:58] Jolene: Well, that's why it's so stupid,
[00:37:59] nicole: [00:38:00] so stupid, so stupid.
[00:38:02] Jolene: ice, and ice is getting paid. So what?
[00:38:05] nicole: Exactly.
[00:38:06] Jolene: whole thing is so stupid,
[00:38:07] nicole: Stupid. Listen, stupid.
[00:38:11] Jolene: thank you for joining us on. We've got to talk and listening to us so that you could hear the very end, Please share and subscribe where you can. We're on all the platforms. We're on Spotify and YouTube and
[00:38:25] nicole: Apple.
[00:38:26] Jolene: and,
[00:38:27] nicole: All the things
[00:38:28] Jolene: website.
[00:38:29] You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook. I mean, we're everywhere.
[00:38:34] nicole: everywhere. Everywhere. Thank you, Jolene. Thank you for doing this subject that you did not want to do. I know
[00:38:41] Jolene: I do
[00:38:41] nicole: it happens. We'll do something fun next time. Maybe I.
[00:38:44] Jolene: Okay.
[00:38:45] nicole: Okay. Hey, thank you for listening. Um, and if you, yeah, talk to you later. Bye. Bye.
[00:38:52]
