ran Conflict: What Happens When "You Break It, You Buy It" Applies to War?
Right now, it’s hard to find a topic more loaded than Iran.
We recorded this on Thursday, March 5th, with the full awareness that anything we say could age in a week. It’s the reality of modern conflict. The story changes by the hour, the footage changes by the minute, and everyone online speaks with the confidence of a historian while the ink is still wet.
So we’re not here to deliver a perfect take. We’re here to do what we always do. Slow it down. Name what we know, what we don’t, and what we’re tempted to assume.
As a Republican, Jolene hesitated to call this a “war” right away. Five days in, it still sits in the category of conflict. Not because she’s minimizing it, but because words matter. “War” implies a timeline, a scale, and a level of commitment that most Americans are traumatised by at this point. Nobody wants another Iraq. Nobody wants another Afghanistan. And yet, Jolene’s view is that there are moments where action feels justified, even if it is risky, even if it is messy, even if the long-term consequences are hard to predict.
That’s where her second point comes in. Short-term necessity versus long-term fallout. She’s thinking about what happens if Iran is left unchecked, and what it signals to allies and adversaries when the U.S. hesitates. She’s also thinking about the cost of getting pulled into something that has no clear end. She holds both fears at once, which is more honest than most of the internet.
My first instinct, as Nicole, is also to get stuck on the language. War versus conflict. Not because I’m trying to win a semantics argument, but because the label shapes how people think. It shapes what they tolerate. It shapes what they demand. And I keep coming back to the strategic side of this, too. The role of allies. The role of technology. The way modern warfare looks different now, partly because of what we’ve watched unfold in Ukraine. Precision, drones, cyber intelligence, targeted strikes. It’s not the old model of “boots on the ground” being the only lever.
But even with all of that, the question that hangs in the air is the same one it always is.
What is the plan?
Because “winning” is not as clean as people want it to be. Victory is a word that sounds neat until you remember it’s built on loss of life, displaced families, and years of instability. And when people start talking about moral high ground, I get uneasy. Not because morality doesn’t matter, but because it’s often used as a shortcut. A way to avoid the hard questions. A way to make ourselves feel pure while other people bleed.
There’s also a piece of this that neither of us can ignore, and it has nothing to do with American politics. It’s the Iranian people.
We cannot talk about Iran like it’s a chessboard without acknowledging the human cost that has already been paid by Iranians who have fought for freedom under an oppressive regime. The stories of protestors, of crackdowns, of people risking everything just to demand basic rights, should change how we talk about this. It should make us more careful. More humble. Less eager to reduce it to “good guys and bad guys” content.
And it raises the question that always makes people uncomfortable. What is the role of outside powers in the name of democracy? When does intervention help? When does it make things worse? When does it become a story we tell ourselves so we can feel heroic?
Jolene tends to focus on the reality that the Middle East has been shaped by power, not wishes. That stability matters. That deterrence matters. That weakness invites chaos. I tend to focus on the fact that “stability” has often meant ordinary people living under brutal systems while the world shrugs. We’re both trying to reconcile the same tension. We want less suffering.
We also talked about whether democracy is even a realistic goal in Iran, at least in the near term. Iran is not a monolith. It’s a complex country with a deep culture, a mix of beliefs, and a population that has shown resilience in the face of oppression. The question isn’t whether Iranians are capable of democracy. The question is what happens after a regime is weakened, and whether the vacuum creates something better or something worse.
This is the part where I keep circling back to the uncomfortable “what if.” What if action wasn’t taken? What would that have meant for the region, for allies, for future threats? People act like restraint is always the moral choice, but restraint has consequences too. Sometimes the cost of doing nothing is just delayed suffering that shows up later, bigger and uglier.
And then there’s the media layer, which is its own battlefield. We keep saying it, because it keeps being true. Stay curious. Do not let one clip, one headline, or one viral narrative become your entire understanding of a conflict this complex. You can care deeply and still admit you don’t know everything. You can have convictions and still demand better information.
So we want to hear from you. What are you watching? What are you worried about? What do you think the U.S. responsibility is here, if any? And what do you think people are missing when they talk about Iran like it’s just another political argument?
As always, we’re not here to end the conversation. We’re here to keep it honest, keep it respectful, and keep it going.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Instagram Hemad Nazari https://www.instagram.com/hemad.nazari/?hl=en
The Diary of a CEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dljIL4rBk
Mo News: https://www.mo.news/%20https://www.readtangle.com/
The New York Times Daily: https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-daily
Maz Jobrani: https://www.mazjobrani.com/
Benjamin Radd: https://benjaminradd.com/
Our Website:
https://www.wevegottotalk.com/
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what friends should be talking about. us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud. Welcome to, we've got to Talk.
[00:00:21] Jolene: this is a good one. Here we go.
[00:00:23] nicole: we're getting right, into it. We are talking about the Iran conflict or Iran conflict. Uh, and just for context, it is Thursday, March 5th at 5:27 PM Eastern, and this will be airing March 11th, the amount of information moment to moment has been, just so completely overwhelming.
[00:00:47] And so we're gonna start just right, get into it with, uh, Jolene's three Hot, takes, my three hot takes, and then we will go.
[00:00:54] Jolene: it's a conflict. I don't know as a Republican if I can call it a war, 'cause that's a whole nother thing going on [00:01:00] here.
[00:01:00] it is a conflict that's been going on for five days as of today. So, um, what we have to say today may be completely outta date and five more days.
[00:01:09] So here we go. Number one. I'm glad we did it. I think we needed to take action against a regime that, um, was trying to negotiate, their way, out of, uh, their nuclear weapons or their, their nuclear capabilities. And I think that we were on the brink of them. Either having one or developing one.
[00:01:29] I think that we were real close. And I think you had a tyrannical leader in the ayatollah that, I mean, if he was willing to, to gun down tens of thousands of his own people in his own land during the protests in January, what's a, a guy like that gonna do, um, with nukes? I think that is the reason for us to, to do that, and we can get into that. Number two, however, I do think that we need to get out, I know I need this to be a short term war, and I would think [00:02:00] the Republicans, I know that we've got Republicans that are split on this right now. I think nobody, Republican, democrat, anyone in the world wants to see a prolonged Middle Eastern conflict. Nobody wants to see Afghanistan, nobody wants to see Iraq again. I think we've, we have strategically done what we've needed to do in terms of, uh, debilitating their, um, their armed forces, their navy,
[00:02:23] Speaking of Irans, and hopefully any nuclear capabilities that, um, that they've already developed. Um, but now we need to leave it to their people. I think of that, the third thing for me is if that means helping the security forces. again, as of this afternoon, I think there's evidence that we have either, helped either the Kurds. in arming them and helping them take over Iran or, we've helped the security forces, the police and the, the, um, the people that were in charge of, um, handling the demonstrations in, in January. we've seen reports of some of them, [00:03:00] that are maybe defecting out of the police force and, and in the, the, um, the areas of Iran that, maybe they're going to side now with the protestors and we need to let that happen.
[00:03:14] What are you thinking?
[00:03:15] nicole: Okay. my number one, uh, we can dispute why we got into this war. I think that's a waste of time because we're here and we can call it a war, we can call it a conflict. There's a lot of debate back and forth about that, but there we are. There. There's one thing that I wanna point out in my number one hot take is that allies matter. And that one thing that I thought was interesting is that you have Iran, using these very inexpensive drones, uh, that then the United States, uh, are using million dollar Patriot missiles to shoot down. And so it turns out the, that Ukraine the last [00:04:00] four years has developed great technology, uh, making deflectors inexpensive, and they have. Come to, they are now saying to United States, we will help you. So that's my an interesting pot take that. I wanna point out two, this war or slash conflict started as a joint effort, uh, between the Israel and United States to dominate Iran when it was at its weakest. And I think that Trump was emboldened after the Maduro situation and thinking that he sort of had the secret sauce and he could do it again, and that this was the time to do it. The thing that I find unsettling is that he said very quickly, all the people we thought that would take over are dead. I find that unsettling, that there doesn't seem at this point to be a real [00:05:00] long-term plan. It was more like, oh, this Maduro thing worked. This is the time and, and, and we can talk about the history.
[00:05:08] Uh, we've done a, I've done a lot of research on how this happened and I'm sure that you have as well. Number three, and this is similar to one of your hot takes. I wish that this was about the 30,000 Iranian protestors who lost their lives standing up for freedom against this tyrannical 47 year regime. I don't think it is. And though. There, it, it waivers. It's about 12 to 20% of Iranians back, the Supreme leader. And that's not very much, But they are religious fanatics and they have the weapons and they have nothing to lose. in the name of God, they will stop at nothing to keep their power and to oppress their people.
[00:05:54] And that I find a really [00:06:00] difficult situation for us to be in. And how do we get out? Like you want it quickly. How do we get out? you know, I, I've learned about this Pottery Barn, if you break it, you buy it. And, and now the Trump administration and others in, uh, like Lindsey Graham has mentioned it as well, uh, that they're like, nah. It's not our problem. And I'm thinking, oof, I'm just gonna speak for myself. as a liberal Democrat, what I have really appreciated, doing this podcast with you and learning how people, how the media, especially the, the legacy media who tends to be biased on the left and the right, just few, you know, just pump out this, this information of what the left thinks and then what the right thinks. I will say having, delved in deep for the last five days, I've never understood when tens of thousands of Iranians were dying. [00:07:00] mowed down in the streets and Trump had said, we're gonna come help you. And then didn't. I now understand why I understand that January 14th, Bebe called, Trump and said, I need you to wait. We're not ready. 'cause they had been talking about into Iran in December. Like this has been a long, so far, like a planned event. but I am looking at these tens of thousands of people who are being slaughtered. how is that okay? and where are the protestors in the United States? Like we
[00:07:39] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:07:39] nicole: about Gaza, we protest about the Palestinians. Who again, I don't believe they should have been slaughtered. I don't believe the Jews should have been slaughtered. I don't believe in slaughter. But here we are. And so there is part of me that thinks, wouldn't this be amazing if what Trump [00:08:00] did actually changed the world order in a positive way, actually, that the Middle East could be a place of prosperity uh, creativity. And wouldn't that be incredible? Wouldn't it be an amazing world that we live in, that we are not afraid of that part of the world?
[00:08:28] also find it really interesting that liberals are going, why are we doing this? And I'm
[00:08:34] Jolene: I know,
[00:08:35] nicole: thought you cared about human beings.
[00:08:37] Jolene: right? Right.
[00:08:38] nicole: that part, Jolene, I'm not in disagreement with you.
[00:08:42] Jolene: And, and it's interesting because as there's also Republicans that though, who are also saying the, the opposite going, Nope, we don't, we shouldn't have gotten involved. We shouldn't have done anything. We don't wanna rock again, we don't want, uh, Afghanistan again. And you're like, but I mean, Trump drew a red line and [00:09:00] he said, okay, if you slaughter, you, know, tens of thousands of your own people, you're gonna regret that.
[00:09:07] And sure enough. He did. Now, maybe it wasn't the week after it happened, but I do think that, um, at at least it wasn't a knee jerk reaction, it was a coordinated plan, like you said, between S and Israel,
[00:09:19] nicole: the Israeli intelligence. they had been working on, Tehran Intelligence for years.
[00:09:26] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:27] nicole: a system in their traffic light. Grid that they said that they knew the streets of Tehran, the way they know the streets of Jerusalem. And
[00:09:37] in December And said, we would like to strike we would like your blessing, we want to do it between April and June of 2026. And Trump said, okay. And then in January, the uprising happened. And said what he [00:10:00] wanted, what he said we will come in. It's not okay for the tens of thousands of people to be slaughtered. And Bebe called January 14th and said, uh, I need you to wait.
[00:10:11] We aren't ready. need to be ready. And said, okay.
[00:10:17] Jolene: Where did, where does this coming from? Where did, I haven't heard that there was this meeting that Netanyahu said he wanted to do it between April and June.
[00:10:25] nicole: uh, New York Times MO News tangle. there's a amazing, I'm gonna put it in the show notes and I said I sent it to you and I'm sure you didn't have a chance to listen to
[00:10:35] Jolene: I didn't, no, I.
[00:10:36] nicole: of a CEO gosh, everybody, I'll put in the show notes. It's long, XCIA Spy Andrew Bus, bus. National security journalist Annie Jacobson and Iran expert, Benjamin Rad. And it is
[00:10:54] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:10:55] nicole: an incredible education on the history of this region, [00:11:00] which, you know, you can't learn in your little Instagram clip we
[00:11:05] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:11:05] nicole: our news from. And, and there was a lot of, fiery discussion, but respectful, which, which I found really exciting.
[00:11:15] and then one of the things they said at the very end was like, what are the tips you can give to people? And they said, one of the, the guests, I think it was Benjamin, said, be curious, be curious.
[00:11:29] Jolene: Yes.
[00:11:30] nicole: here we are.
[00:11:31] Like here we are. mean the XCIA guy. Had a very dark picture of what could happen. And there were times in the podcast that I found my heart racing, getting very scared, being a New Yorker, you know, when these things like this happen and you live in big cities, we're the first to get hit it's very easy to get caught up in that. And it's also easy, I was listening to Tangle Today and their take and also easy [00:12:00] as Americans, as people from thousands of miles away from the, the actual physical conflict. It's very easy to just go on with our lives or, you know, as, as Heg said, what, which I made me quite angry, said, tragic things happen of honoring those six soldiers that have already died. it's very easy to sort of understand, like We are affecting tens of millions of people. I want The people to be able to decide, who their leader is,
[00:12:34] Jolene: The Iranian
[00:12:36] nicole: Iranian
[00:12:36] people.
[00:12:37] Jolene: Okay.
[00:12:38] nicole: one thing, Jolene, that you said about the Kurds that I just listened to, Mo News, they were explaining how that woman that we were, that was being
[00:12:47] Jolene: On the live. Yeah.
[00:12:48] nicole: the live. thread, I don't, I didn't catch her name, but she's an Iranian, specialist,
[00:12:53] but she was talking about that a lot of people on the ground are very worried about that because it's a very diverse [00:13:00] country.
[00:13:00] Jolene: Right.
[00:13:01] nicole: start putting. sex of people against each other, that it creates civil war. she had a source on the ground that that was someone that didn't want the bombings to happen, that said that the regime was going to crumble. as we know, the economic,
[00:13:17] status is so horrific that people were starting to defect. in these times of worth the, the more extreme can and solidify too.
[00:13:28] Jolene: Okay. What didn't you take away from? and I didn't listen to her for very long, but I, I think one of the things that I've. Learned over the last five days about this conflict is that, that Iran is so diverse that, um, the one thing that actually brings them together is the fact that, you know, this was the, the January uprising. and these protests that happened in January were so significant that it wasn't just in certain cities and it wasn't in just the big cities. It was, uh, you and I talked [00:14:00] about this on a prior podcast, It was so many different walks of life that were all coming together to protest that this is an opportunity.
[00:14:09] And I, and I think Trump said that, um, in his address right after the initial, um, strikes, he said, we're going to help you. We're gonna do our part And what I think that means is that we're gonna take out the military, we're going to destroy the, the nuclear capabilities. you've gotta do it yourself now.
[00:14:27] And I think, As an American, I love that idea. let's give the help where we need, let's not put boots on the ground. Let's not, you know, um, say that we're going to help in a, in a rebuilding, you know, way. So my question is to you, are you happy with the progress that we have made or with the events? I can't even say progress. Are you Happy with the events that have happened so far?
[00:14:52] nicole: Happy is not the word. I'm trying to stay present about it. thing that, have been [00:15:00] so upset on the left is, you know, why didn't they dis they consult congress? One thing that I did, I did know in my research is that, Israeli intelligence notified Trump, the Monday before and the next day was the State of the Union and hours before the State of the Union, he did. speak with the gang of eight. and that's not reported very much.
[00:15:27] Jolene: Wait, so let's stop and let's, let's make sure that the listener knows the gang of eight are the eight, um, uh, two senators from.
[00:15:36] nicole: and Democrats
[00:15:37] Jolene: Yeah. From each the Senate in the house, so that, yep. The four, the four from each side. and I think it was, I don't if Rubio was the one that initiated that, but that Rubio notified the gang of 8 48 hours prior to striking, which is part of the War Powers resolution that.
[00:15:55] nicole: In
[00:15:56] Jolene: we have implemented Yes. That we've implemented since Vietnam. So [00:16:00] that, um, that there is some accountability. to your point, I think there are people that are mad that Congress wasn't consulted.
[00:16:08] But as you and I have talked about as well, I think if you were to have told someone like Jasmine Crockett that this was gonna happen, I, I mean, how do you take away the spontaneity of war? and assure some success because you are being spontaneous and it's a secretive mission if you've got people that you have shared it with.
[00:16:34] And then at the risk of them, um, letting the cat out of the bag. I,
[00:16:39] nicole: I mean, I think, I think the, the point is that, because of the War powers resolution of 1973, he did legally, what he was allowed to do,
[00:16:49] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:16:50] nicole: likes it or not, that's, that is the deal. And he let the gang of eight know, and within 48 hours he let Congress know and he has 60 [00:17:00] days to do this. After 60 days, Congress has to approve it.
[00:17:05] Jolene: Yeah. Right.
[00:17:06] nicole: I think we, you know, we are now in a place now that we're so, get so caught in the weeds of like, you know, this is the right way and that's the right way, way. And the bottom line is here we are, here we are, we are in a heated conflict. We are bombing, shelters. are attacking us. They are attacking, other UAE countries, which is astounding to me. Um, am I happy with it? No,
[00:17:39] Jolene: Um, okay. So, so take happy out. do you think this was a good move for us?
[00:17:43] nicole: I I don't know. I understand with the intelligence that they had. I understand why they did it. I, in the past, and I, and I think I heard this on the diary of the CEO, that, action that happened on Saturday in [00:18:00] previous administrations would've been a covert, operation. and because Trump is Trump, it's all fanfare all the time, I,
[00:18:08] Jolene: But how can it not? I mean, at this, in this day and age, with everyone with a cell phone, how could you. Bomb that many targets. I mean, we're at five days and 2000 over 2000
[00:18:21] nicole: oh, Joe, I'm
[00:18:22] Jolene: targets.
[00:18:22] nicole: just talking about that Saturday when he, they took out the supreme leader and his leaders this is the thing. This is where, like, that maybe I am than other liberals. Like this guy was, Hoi was such a bad guy.
[00:18:38] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:18:39] nicole: there's no words for how bad this
[00:18:42] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:18:43] nicole: this regime that took over Hoi. Now I've learned that it's honi and honi and they were evil. They are horrible, horrible people.
[00:18:54] One thing that I learned from this Susanna interview the IRGC, [00:19:00] the Islamic.
[00:19:00] Revolutionary Guard Corps. they're the bad guys. And in January they used special bullets so that they could kill more than one people per bullet. And if the people, if the family members wanted their family, their, their, their child, their parent, whoever was dead, wanted to claim that family members' body.
[00:19:23] They had to pay the guard with the bullet.
[00:19:27] Jolene: Like the bullet that was taken out of their loved one's body, had to give it back to the Iranian.
[00:19:32] nicole: they had to pay to get the body back.
[00:19:37] Jolene: Oh God,
[00:19:39] nicole: How do you feel? I mean, I know you just said that you feel good.
[00:19:42] What
[00:19:42] Jolene: I thought we had to.
[00:19:43] nicole: I mean what
[00:19:44] Jolene: I, I, no, I don't feel good. No. No. War war is never good. You never want war, you never want conflict. You, you don't wanna see people die.
[00:19:50] nicole: and you
[00:19:50] Jolene: But, uh,
[00:19:51] nicole: And the
[00:19:51] Jolene: the, six Americans. Yes. And the, the six Americans that have lost their lives, um, four of them were from [00:20:00] Iowa, you know, from the Iowa Guard. Yeah.
[00:20:02] nicole: saw that.
[00:20:03] Jolene: obviously they gave the ultimate sacrifice for us. no one likes war, but what were the consequences if we didn't? if Iran had a nuclear weapon, it changes the landscape, not of just the Middle East, because then if Iran's got a nuclear weapon, then Saudi Arabia is gonna have to have a nuclear weapon, which then, you know, is Iraq.
[00:20:26] I, I mean, at that point, if they have, if someone is. As, again, we keep using the word tyrannical. Someone is tyrannical as the ayatollah of Iran has a nuclear weapon. You don't think that then that proliferates the whole nuclear, landscape of the Middle East. But, uh, the world, you know, if and especially is Iran
[00:20:50] Is supporting Hezbollah and Hamas and, you know, all of these
[00:20:55] nicole: Houthis.
[00:20:56] Jolene: little all yeah, all of the other, you know, little [00:21:00] subcategories of the Islamic regime that are a threat to, you know, we saw this in Afghanistan, I mean, heck, we may see sleeper cells in the United States. we needed to do something and, and as you said earlier, if this is a success, and if success means that we've taken down the Islamic re revolution that Iran can finally put in a government for themselves. Yep. Yep. Then this is a success for the entire world.
[00:21:28] nicole: yes, I agree that I feel like the people need to decide who they want to lead them. one thing in the MO news interview, just that I just heard was that in the last a hundred years, there's been two Shahs and two supreme leaders. All are people with crowns. they have never experienced democracy. So to go in and say. It's, you know, for us, and we're a pretty young country, but 250 years we've created this [00:22:00] democracy that most of the time works. But we could say it's easier for us to say, you figure it out. Well, we've been working on it for two 50 years.
[00:22:09] They've never done it. They don't know what that means. I mean, the interesting thing about Iran is that it's educated, incredibly creative, filled with scientists and artists and musicians, and the way the propaganda is, we see, we have been taught that Iran is this like evil empire.
[00:22:30] Jolene: Because it has been for the last 47 years.
[00:22:33] nicole: But it's the leaders.
[00:22:34] It's not the people. Right,
[00:22:36] Jolene: the lead, but the people have been, harnessed into this, where they can't be expressive. I mean, women have not been able to be, and gays and lesbians, and I mean, all of those people have been so repressed.
[00:22:49] nicole: they've been executed. There's been hangings. I mean, it's been awful, obviously, but what, but there's a small segment of people [00:23:00] that. believe in the Supreme leader in the Ayatollah. it waivers between 12% and 20%. The rest of the people have had to succumb to them to stay alive, quite frankly. now what? I don't want a puppet. I don't want a United States puppet to go in there. that's never worked. I really am concerned about like, I think as you are too, like boots on the ground, keeping it, trying to keep it together. But I don't believe that we just go blow shit up and leave
[00:23:34] Jolene: Right, but
[00:23:35] nicole: thing that Trump said, he is like, we might have a leader that's worse. And I'm thinking,
[00:23:41] Jolene: Well, and they've
[00:23:42] already named somebody, right? I mean, this guy, I mean, his father was a hard liner, so they're assuming he's going to be a hard liner
[00:23:50] nicole: Well,
[00:23:51] Jolene: and
[00:23:52] nicole: targeted him for assassination.
[00:23:54] Jolene: but don't you also feel like, um, a again, going back to the intelligence that I, feel like the [00:24:00] Israeli, um, military has established is, as, as you said earlier, that they've been. They've infiltrated the traffic cameras and, and all that of, Iran for years.
[00:24:13] So to think that this was a, a very focused, a very strategic move on Israel's part. And, and I, I think the CIAI think there, there have been some people who have from CIA who have said. We've known a lot of stuff that's going on because we have in, we have people who have infiltrated, their government as well. and we talked about this in our last podcast when we talked about Iran, that, um, the amount of satellite phones that have gotten into the hands of the people, because Iran has shut off the internet, you know, as, as an entire country has shut up because they didn't want, you know, their people to hear from what the rest of the world was saying and, and what was happening.
[00:24:58] And so I, [00:25:00] I have got to think that this wasn't a haphazard. effort on either Israel's part or United States' part that, that there are things in place and whether that's, again, I don't know that we're funding the Kurds. I don't know if we're giving them weapons and, and all that to help them become in power or if that's even something that we want. I'm hearing that there's, there's even so many different facets of, of the Kurds that. Maybe that's not what we want, but regardless, I would, I would hope that we have given the tools, to the people that can make a difference, and that they're going to be able to help themselves.
[00:25:39] Would you agree?
[00:25:40] nicole: One thing that I do know that is, is not nothing is that Iran has been threatening death to America. Since the first ayatollah into power and there have been assassination [00:26:00] attempts that didn't happen, to Trump. Uh, I read about several, uh, instances and that that was not nothing to President Trump,
[00:26:11] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:12] nicole: rattled him.
[00:26:14] I don't know if he would admit that that rattled him, but that was something that definitely a part of this decision to go in and take out the Ayatollah or the Supreme leader. you know, I saw something yesterday that I found super disturbing about, a Montana senator yelling at a. A Marine and the Marine saying,
[00:26:37] Jolene: Oh my gosh,
[00:26:38] nicole: horrible
[00:26:39] Jolene: yes.
[00:26:40] nicole: Like, I
[00:26:40] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:26:41] nicole: we don't wanna fight for Israel. And, and it gets the, this whole thing gets really ugly about Israel how, it's no news if there's no Jews.
[00:26:51] Have you ever heard that?
[00:26:53] Jolene: I've never heard that.
[00:26:54] nicole: Yep. I heard that.
[00:26:56] from my family. And that's a real
[00:26:59] Jolene: It's no [00:27:00] news.
[00:27:00] nicole: there's
[00:27:01] Jolene: If there's
[00:27:01] no Jews,
[00:27:02] nicole: They blame a lot on the Jews. And as we talked about it a long time ago in one of our episodes about, Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that. Before Hamas, attacked on October 7th, the Middle East was in a pretty peaceful place, and a lot of the, the countries like Saudi Arabia and Jordan and everybody was sort of getting along with Israel. Hamas' ethos is to kill all Jews and death to Israel. And so it was like, nobody can get along here. And so they go in and and kill and kidnap thousands of people. And literally ho horrified for about a day. And then it's, oh my God, the Palestinians [00:28:00] I don't believe that the Palestinians should have been slaughtered either. But there was this, there was no real sense. It was just like those poor Palestinians when the Hamas were infiltrating in the pa. The pa Hamas don't care about the Palestinians. The Hamas care about like, you know, killing as many Jews as
[00:28:21] Jolene: Death to Israel. Yes.
[00:28:22] nicole: Israel. Death to America. Death. Death. Death. If you, you're
[00:28:26] Jolene: Right?
[00:28:27] nicole: If you think that Hamas gives a shit about Palestinians, they
[00:28:32] Jolene: Yep.
[00:28:32] nicole: themselves in hospitals. They barricaded themselves in schools. But what were the college kids doing? They were rallying against the Jews. It was, it was And I feel like
[00:28:43] Jolene: Right.
[00:28:43] nicole: again. There are tens of thousands of Iranians that were slaughtered. Slaughtered. 'cause they were standing up for their rights, for freedom. Isn't that what America is supposed to be about? Where were you College kids? Nowhere.
[00:28:55] Jolene: And at the, at the awards shows, at the, the Hollywood Award shows, did [00:29:00] anybody? No. They were all F ice. They were all talking about ice, but no one said anything about the thousands, the tens of thousands of people that were mowed down by the people in their, by their own government, in their own streets.
[00:29:14] nicole: exactly. this is an Instagram, person that I think people should follow. it's H-E-M-A-D-N-A-Z-A-R-I. he is a photographer in Iran and.
[00:29:31] He has been so courageous and, uh, been filming during the, uh, uprising in January. And, uh, he recently sent a post that he was really furious, that people are all up in arms that, the school was bombed and he wasn't saying that it was great that the girls were killed, but he said, you don't understand what life is like here.
[00:29:57] The shelters are built next to the [00:30:00] schools on purpose. And where were you when we were being slaughtered by the tens of thousands? Where were you? And so, and you just see it, Instagram, Graham clip, and you decide that you understand the history of Iran.
[00:30:14] It is so dense. Jolene, don't you think? I mean, trying to wrap our brains around this conflict and what they want and who they are, and We were both alive. I remember the hostages being
[00:30:26] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:30:27] nicole: taken. I remember Jimmy
[00:30:28] Jolene: Yep.
[00:30:28] nicole: trying to get the hostages out and every night in the evening news you'd see day 342,
[00:30:35] Jolene: Yep. Yep.
[00:30:36] nicole: and, also being, growing up in the Bay Area, in the San Francisco Bay area, there was tons of Iranians, Persians that had, had left, had escaped 79, and they were living among us. And my brother's best friend, Maoz Giani, he's an amazing comedian. Shout out Maoz. I learned about Iran, I learned about Persia, I learned about the persecution as a [00:31:00] child, but I
[00:31:01] Jolene: Yep.
[00:31:01] nicole: understand
[00:31:03] This shit's hard. Jolene.
[00:31:05] Jolene: I think we can't lose sight of the fact that we're in day five,
[00:31:08] nicole: Yes.
[00:31:09] Jolene: of this conflict. And so, you know, for us to, again, we're. Because we are in this, um, in this world now where we have all this information at, you know, at the flip of a switch and we can scroll and see a hundred different, thoughts and ideas and people making, taking a stand and giving their opinions and all that. there's polling then that, that goes out. How do you feel about the, um, uh, about the conflict? Well, how are you supposed to know how to answer that? I think it was a Fox News poll that said, um, do you feel more safe or less safe now that we've bombed Iran? it's such a bad question well, no. How would anybody feel safe during a war? it's such a dumb question and again, I, feel like it's just the media's way of, [00:32:00] of trying to incite.
[00:32:01] nicole: that part I agree with you. I think that the media thrives on fear and anger. it is a stupid question and, but it is a question of the time. The news media wants us to be afraid they want us, they want us to be angry. That's how they make their money, right? and the interesting part is, having listened to this diary of the CEO with this XCIA person, it almost seems like we should never, we should always be afraid, which I think
[00:32:28] Jolene: Right.
[00:32:29] nicole: of disconcerting.
[00:32:30] You know, living in New York City, experienced a lot of things that most people don't. You know, I was there September 11th, I've been there blackouts, I've been like, it's not a contrary to, I think what, probably Fox News airs. It's not a very dangerous city considering the behemoth of a city that it is.
[00:32:51] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:32:52] nicole: it's not like anything else in the, the United States, of course. but I think, are we more safe or less safe? That's a state of [00:33:00] mind.
[00:33:00] Jolene: I mean, anytime there's a war, you should feel unsafe no matter where it is. So I just don't think.
[00:33:06] nicole: during I'm, I'm assuming at our government, just daily deflects different shootings and conflicts and all day long, every day, I would imagine that we will
[00:33:18] Jolene: And if
[00:33:18] nicole: about.
[00:33:19] Jolene: and if you were in Mexico two weeks ago just having a vacation and quite a Virta sitting on a beach, and all of a sudden you're like, eh, it's not safe to be here either. I mean, how do you know?
[00:33:30] nicole: I mean, here's the thing, Jolene, like when do we know it's over? When do we
[00:33:35] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:36] nicole: and whose barometer are we following? we are in this situ, this very dangerous, complicated, and fragile situation. How do we work together to figure out how to create a new Middle East?. If we are going to be arbiters of freedom, if [00:34:00] that's what really America's about, then how do we model this for the Middle East?
[00:34:07] Jolene: the, the Middle East has to choose this for themselves. You know, I, I mean we've, we've given the help, the support militarily that to, um, maybe take the, the big piece. Off at the table by, um, taking out the military and taking out the, the nuclear proliferation. But, um, as far as the, the people, they've gotta have an uprising and they've got to do it themselves and they gotta figure it out.
[00:34:35] nicole: I mean, they've had an up, they, they, they've had an uprising and they were slaughtered.
[00:34:39] Jolene: right. But
[00:34:39] nicole: Right.
[00:34:40] Jolene: taken that piece out, hopefully,
[00:34:42] nicole: Well, yeah, we don't know. We don't really know. Not yet. I mean, obviously this is fresh. Listen, uh, listener and viewer, I hope that you can give us some grace 'cause this is a lot and I would imagine that it's a lot for all of you.
[00:34:59] And I [00:35:00] think the thing that takeaway is that it's really important that we don't jump to conclusions on this and that we just have to keep asking questions and keep trying to understand. 'cause this is a culture that's very different than ours and I think it's important to, as Benjamin Rob said, stay curious.
[00:35:24] Don't jump to conclusions. This is new territory for everyone I think.
[00:35:30] Jolene: we've got an opportunity, so let's foster it and see if. Something better can come to fruition.
[00:35:36] nicole: That would be, I think that would be the hope for Democrats, Republicans, and everyone in between.
[00:35:44] Jolene: Yep.
[00:35:45] nicole: see anyone that wouldn't want that.
[00:35:47] Jolene: Right?
[00:35:48] nicole: Do you have a, would you rather, my dear,
[00:35:50] Jolene: I do.
[00:35:51] nicole: okay.
[00:35:51] Jolene: You go first.
[00:35:52] nicole: Okay.
[00:35:58] Mine is totally [00:36:00] unfair.
[00:36:01] Jolene: Okay.
[00:36:02] nicole: I'm just prefacing it because I felt, as I was writing it, I was trying to find something funny.
[00:36:07] I'm like, I can't do funny right now.
[00:36:09] Jolene: I know,
[00:36:09] nicole: And I was like, this is not fair.
[00:36:12] Jolene: okay.
[00:36:13] nicole: you rather have this war end tomorrow and Iran be more fanatical than ever, or. Have this conflict go on for a year with tens of thousands of casualties and Iran have a true democracy that changes the landscape of the Middle East for the next 100 years.
[00:36:41] Jolene: As in the words of my father, sacrifice the long term for the short term. You gotta go with, you know, nobody wants this to drag on for a year and no one wants the casualties and no one wants that. But if you knew in the end that that [00:37:00] was the outcome and for generations to be able to, to live happily ever after, obviously that's what you'd choose.
[00:37:09] Uh, I think the fact that we felt like we needed to act right now because it. Nuclear or ran could decimate humanity as we know it. I mean, that would be obviously devastating. Duh. I mean, it's a bad answer, but it's the best answer, Stan. couldn't come up with one that was Iran related, but I, I wanted to stay on topic for, um, in terms of being relevant to
[00:37:44] nicole: Okay.
[00:37:47] Jolene: here's yours. Would you rather ride on Christie? No's $70 million airplane. go on a double date with her and Corey [00:38:00] Lewandowski.
[00:38:04] nicole: The fact that I actually understand everything about this question. First of all, listener, a viewer, if you don't know, uh, Christie Nome, who has now been fired as of today. Uh, in her hearing, they were grilling her about this luxury jet that she bought that had To use for United States purposes with a huge, luxurious yes, but with a huge, lovely bed inside of It
[00:38:33] Jolene: It was a $70 million airplane that she said she was going to retrofit to,
[00:38:40] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:41] Jolene: to deport people. Retrofit it would, you know, to seats.
[00:38:45] nicole: Yes.
[00:38:46] Jolene: took a $70 million airplane to do that.
[00:38:48] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:49] Jolene: As someone said, that's like ask taking a
[00:38:53] nicole: Yes.
[00:38:54] Jolene: it into a Metro bus. [00:39:00] Okay,
[00:39:01] nicole: And then Daniel Lubinski, is that his, you pronounce his name? Luban.
[00:39:07] Jolene: Uh, Corey Lewandowski,
[00:39:10] nicole: what did I say? Co,
[00:39:12] Jolene: I dunno,
[00:39:12] nicole: Okay.
[00:39:13] Jolene: his cousin or something.
[00:39:16] nicole: That she supposedly had an affair with this guy, but He was like, he's like,
[00:39:22] Jolene: his, you know, his claim to fame, Corey Lewandowski, he was, he's a big Trumper and in Trump's first term, he was an advisor and was so, um, outspoken and really, um, he was always on CNN
[00:39:38] nicole: okay,
[00:39:39] Jolene: just, he, um, a little fireball and he's. Something else.
[00:39:46] nicole: he is sleeping with Christie Nome and she, she gave him a contract or something. Right.
[00:39:50] Jolene: Well, no, he's an, he's a subordinate.
[00:39:54] He works for her. And
[00:39:55] nicole: Okay.
[00:39:55] Jolene: was, are you having a sexual relationship? They're both married to other people [00:40:00] and both of their spouses are back in their home. Towns,
[00:40:04] nicole: Right.
[00:40:05] Jolene: both Lewandowski and Nome are in DC and even the I, I think that we saw this on MO News, even people within the Trump administration and people that work with them were uncomfortable around them because they were so the top, over each other, and so.
[00:40:26] They, she was asked in this,
[00:40:28] nicole: Yes. Yes.
[00:40:29] Jolene: a sexual relationship? And she wouldn't answer the question with her husband sitting right back here. Well, no, I don't think that you would wanna answer that question. How embarrassing. But the fact that she wouldn't even answer it, she wouldn't even say no.
[00:40:44] Well, she was under oath, so I mean, anyway,
[00:40:50] nicole: The question,
[00:40:51] Jolene: Christie.
[00:40:52] nicole: the question was double date with them, Or what was the first one about a plane?
[00:40:56] Jolene: Or go on our, on a plane ride in the $70 million
[00:40:59] nicole: I'm [00:41:00] going on the $70 million plane.
[00:41:02] because I've never been in a $70 million plane. And it sounds like it could be fun. You could come with me. We could have a party. Like, I don't wanna go on a double date with those creepy people. No.
[00:41:15] Jolene: oh, wouldn't that be fun?
[00:41:16] nicole: on a double date with them. No being, being on the plane with them.
[00:41:19] Jolene: want it?
[00:41:20] nicole: Listen, ugh.
[00:41:22] Jolene: Let's go and have drinks with him and just ask him stuff. We wouldn't care.
[00:41:26] nicole: Peace out, Christie gnome. Bye-bye. Bye-bye Christie. Gnome. See ya.
[00:41:32] Jolene: He looks so cute though.
[00:41:34] nicole: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. We have been a year doing this podcast. I am astounded at the corruption, at the quality of human beings that are in the government, number one,
[00:41:48] Jolene: Oh, but it's
[00:41:49] nicole: and,
[00:41:49] Jolene: way in every government.
[00:41:52] nicole: I am astounded Jolene, that here We are pretty much at war with Iran.
[00:41:56] Who knew that a year ago when I said, Hey, let's do a [00:42:00] podcast, that this is where we'd be.
[00:42:02] Jolene: We have got a lot of things to talk about.
[00:42:09] our next episode.
[00:42:10] nicole: Oh God,
[00:42:12] Jolene: Epstein files. Here we go,
[00:42:15] nicole: here we go. Yeah.
[00:42:17] Jolene: Thank you, listener and viewer for sticking with us.
[00:42:19] nicole: yes.
[00:42:20] Jolene: if you like our content and if you like what we're trying to do here, please share this with other people so that we can, um, help build our community. Please, like, um, like this, share this and, um, comment. We'd love to hear your comments. We'd love to hear your comments on our end.
[00:42:36] If you have experience, um, in, uh, living in the Middle East and you want to, um, share some of your thoughts with us, we'd love to hear it as well. So thank you for. Um, listening. Please listen again next time
[00:42:51] nicole: please take care of yourselves. And again, um, read, listen, ask questions, understand that [00:43:00] all of these things are incredibly complicated and that we don't have the answers. Thank you, Jolene. Bye bye.
[00:43:11]
