The Death of Political Decorum: Pam Bondi, JD Vance, and Why We're All Exhausted
It feels like every time I open the news, I’m not reading about policy anymore. I’m watching behavior. Grown adults, with real power, acting like the goal is to humiliate someone on camera rather than solve anything. And I don’t even say that as a partisan complaint. I say it as a human who is tired.
I’m Nicole, and I’m here with Jolene. We sit on opposite sides of the political aisle, and we’re asking a simple question today: where did decorum in the White House go? Not the fake, polite kind that hides corruption. The basic, functional kind. The kind that lets people disagree without turning every interaction into a performance designed to go viral.
Because right now, politics feels like it’s being run by the same logic as social media. Outrage wins. Clips win. Humiliation wins. And the rest of us are left trying to live normal lives while the people in charge behave like they’re auditioning for a reality show.
One of the moments that really set this off for us was watching congressional hearings that felt less like a search for truth and more like a junior high debate team competition. Pam Bondi during the Epstein hearings was a perfect example. It wasn’t that tough questions were asked. Tough questions are part of the job. It was the tone. The posturing. The sense that everyone already knew their lines and the only real audience was the camera.
Jolene and I both had the same reaction, which was basically, are we seriously doing this? Is this what oversight looks like now? Because when hearings turn into theatre, they don’t just waste time. They teach the public that politics is not about governing. It’s about winning the moment. And if you’re raising kids, or teaching kids, or just trying to be a decent adult in public, it’s hard not to look at that and think, we are modelling the worst possible behavior.
And then there’s the media layer, which pours gas on everything. Headlines are written like boxing match promos. Photos are chosen for maximum disgust. Arrows, circles, “gotcha” captions, breathless framing. “Democrats grill” this person. “Republicans slam” that person. It’s not information, it’s agitation. It’s a national tabloid with better lighting.
My hot take is that we are all being trained into a constant stress response. Even people who say they love politics seem exhausted by it. We’re being pitted against each other every day, and it’s not because the issues don’t matter. It’s because the delivery is designed to keep us angry, loyal, and clicking.
So we started asking the awkward question. What would happen if we took the cameras out of congressional hearings? Or at least changed the rules so the incentives weren’t so performative? We want transparency, obviously. But right now, “transparency” is being used as an excuse for made-for-TV drama. What if no one was allowed notes? No visual aids. No rehearsed speeches. Just people answering questions like adults. Imagine that.
And then, in the middle of all this noise, we had a moment of contrast. We watched Marco Rubio’s Munich speech and both felt the same surprising thing. Relief. Not because we suddenly agree with everything he believes, but because it sounded like an adult speaking to adults. Measured. Clear. Serious. Not trying to go viral. Not trying to bait the other side. Just communicating like the stakes are real.
It made us wonder if that kind of tone still has a future in American politics, or if the system now rewards the opposite. Because here’s the tension. Voters say they want maturity, but attention often goes to outrageousness. People say they want substance, but the algorithm rewards spectacle. And then you get leaders who feel more like entertainers than public servants.
We talked about Gavin Newsom in that context, too. He’s polished, charismatic, and undeniably skilled at the performance of politics. But does that polish read as leadership, or does it read as theatre? Does relatability matter more than responsibility now? Are we choosing candidates based on who feels like they can run a country, or who feels like they can dominate a news cycle?
And then there’s the piece we can’t ignore as women. The double standard. When men are forceful, they’re “strong.” When women are forceful, they’re “unstable.” When men raise their voices, they’re “passionate.” When women do it, they’re “emotional.” I shared a personal story with Jolene about being assertive and watching it get translated, almost instantly, into something irrational. Like confidence in a woman must be explained as a problem.
That matters because it shapes who feels “acceptable” in public life. It shapes who gets taken seriously. It shapes who gets forgiven for the same behavior. And in a culture already drowning in rage and performance, women often get punished twice. Once for playing the game, and again for refusing to.
So where does that leave us?
Honestly, we’re not ending this episode with a neat solution. We’re ending it with a cultural challenge. Can we shift away from rage-bait and click-driven drama? Can we reward leaders who speak like adults? Can we stop treating politics like sport and start treating it like the shared responsibility it is?
We’d like to believe we can. And we’re trying to do our small part by modelling something that feels almost old-fashioned now. Disagreement wrapped in respect. Curiosity without contempt. Conviction without cruelty.
If you’re exhausted too, tell us. What do you think changed? Do you think decorum can come back, or is this just politics now? And what would you actually reward in a leader if the algorithm wasn’t in the room?
Because every shift starts the same way. Someone decides the current normal is not good enough and says it out loud.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what friends should be talking about. us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud. Jolene, welcome to, we've got to
[00:00:21] Jolene: Nicole. Welcome to We have Got To Talk.
[00:00:25] nicole: Um, so everybody, we're gonna cut to the chase here today we are talking about, Pam Bondi and the Epstein hearings. We are talking about the Munich speeches, uh, Marco Rubio versus JD Vance. And really we are talking about an umbrella of decorum. Where has it gone? Where has it gone, whether it be presidential, whether it be congressional,
[00:00:50] Jolene: I think as you and I first started talking about this after we saw the Pam Bondi, um, congressional hearing, we both like, Ugh, are you kidding me? I mean, that was just like, it was, I [00:01:00] felt like I was watching a junior high debate. But that also lends itself to congressional hearings in general.
[00:01:06] I think congressional hearings are a joke. I think they're a joke because they're theatrical, they're performative, uh, on both sides. And I think they do, um, they do very little to get to the substantive, context of what they're intended to do. Um, so then it, it made me think more of just the, the decorum of politicians.
[00:01:26] In general, and I personally think that this is, it has been in decline and I'm sure that you would agree with me, since Trump became in office, and I think that's because he was a TV. Personality. He, he's a big personality and I think he embraced the ability to be able to talk directly to the and didn't, didn't worry about what he said.
[00:01:49] He went to Twitter, he went right in and he just, he. He spoke on the, on the level of his voters, and people embraced it and they liked it. They didn't like the politicians speak. And [00:02:00] so he kept going because it worked for him. But the level of civility has declined, no doubt. So I wanna talk about that. so then that made me just think about communication styles, um, in general from presidents. and really, I, I kind of started with Reagan because that's the first I really remember of, you know, paying attention. kind of went through and compared from Reagan to Trump and um, and I have some interesting thoughts on all that.
[00:02:24] nicole: I would agree with you. I mean, I did watch a lot of the hearings I watched and I also like just explored on YouTube, and wanna talk about like, how that is framed. I felt like unless you were looking at, I want the full hearing and you would get C-span, otherwise you'd get all of these like roles.
[00:02:42] Uh, it looked like a video version of the national and cross. Inquirer, like
[00:02:47] Jolene: Yes.
[00:02:47] nicole: photographs, explosive titles, getting all of us to be totally enraged and totally pitted up against each other. So number one, my hot take. The way we are treating each other [00:03:00] is out of control. are modeling horrible, horrible behavior for our children, and I believe that most people are exhausted. That's, that's my
[00:03:13] Jolene: Yep.
[00:03:13] nicole: take, number one.
[00:03:14] Jolene: Okay.
[00:03:15] nicole: We actually have no idea how the founding fathers behaved. were no video cameras. We don't know that they could have been screaming and yelling at each other. We have no idea. But what
[00:03:25] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:03:26] nicole: know is like you said, I totally agree with you that in these hearings there is so much theatrics that it's really hard To get to the meat of anything, and I felt like as I was watching it, I want new rules imposed on these hearings. Number one, uh, Pam Bondy would rarely make eye contact. She was always looking at her book to decide her next burn was going to be, or no one was listening, like the Congress people, even the right and the left were either like, this is [00:04:00] my script, this is what I'm gonna say, this
[00:04:02] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:04:02] nicole: do. then she'd be like, oh, Republican, yay. Or Oh, Democrat, burn, burn, burn. And it was like, this is, no one's listening to each other and, and as we do this podcast, I'm like, seriously?
[00:04:17] and one thing that was fun, I wanna shout out to Brad Portus again, our friend Brad Portus, who created bridge grades.org.
[00:04:23] 'cause what's fun, you guys, this is an assignment in the middle of our podcast. Here's a great assignment, whatever a hearing comes up and you guys are interested in watching the hearing. Watch the hearing, then pause it and look at the person speaking and then go to bridge grades.org and see what their grade is. 'cause that's what I did. So that when
[00:04:43] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:04:43] nicole: in the theatrics, you can find, huh? Republican is actually a B or an A, and they plain and they try to work together and this guy is an F. So whatever's coming out of his mouth, whether he is a Republican or Democrat, he is just there to be theatrical. So [00:05:00] I thought that was sort of in a strange way, a fun game to try to understand this nonsense that we're dealing and that that we're being fed. it's just become really clear that most media is about entertainment. Now. We've forgotten the journalism, we've forgotten what it's about. And so when you look on YouTube and you see like, Democrats Grill, Pam Bondi and that, she's like. Ah, it's a horrible photograph of her you know, these blinking lights to make you. React to make
[00:05:29] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:05:29]
[00:05:30] nicole: it's like I would think about as being a little girl standing in the supermarket line and seeing those crazy tabloids,
[00:05:36] Jolene: yeah, yeah.
[00:05:37] nicole: like, oh, that's bananas.
[00:05:40] Jolene: Right.
[00:05:40] nicole: that's now our video reality and what we've talked about in previous episodes,
[00:05:45] Jolene: Oh yeah. All right.
[00:05:46] nicole: amount of younger voters that only get their news from media.
[00:05:53] Jolene: Okay.
[00:05:54] nicole: this is, this is a deep purple issue right now because I
[00:05:57] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:05:57] nicole: if we're gonna put a color on it deep [00:06:00] purple, that it's like both sides are like, are you kidding
[00:06:04] Jolene: Enough is enough. Yeah. Yep. Okay. you agree or disagree with this, that, um, I think that congressional hearings should not be televised, like no cameras in the room? Would that prevent some of this? Because it's really made for, for entertainment the way it's set up, right? I mean, you've got this panel, you've got this panel up here.
[00:06:26] You've got the one person right in the middle, and all the cameras are back behind her getting there, and cameras are down in front of her, facing her. I mean, they're wanting to get it from a, I would think from, as an actor, you're like, this is a beautiful little production.
[00:06:41] nicole: absolutely. Absolutely. But here's the, but here's the thing, like, this is for the people. So we have to see it in some way, I want more rules. I want to shut this shit down if
[00:06:53] Jolene: how do you do that? How would you do, what rules would you like to see?
[00:06:56] nicole: okay. Let's see. you know what would be really interesting? It would never fly, [00:07:00] but I'm just gonna go for it.
[00:07:02] Ready? No one gets notes. Nobody,
[00:07:06] Jolene: you can't bring any visual aids in.
[00:07:09] nicole: bring any notes. No notes, no notes. And you get like a game show. You get. let's say in your five minutes, you have two staff members that you can call a, I need some
[00:07:21] Jolene: Phone a friend.
[00:07:21] nicole: phone a friend, because seriously, 'cause this is part of the problem. Everyone is so scripted
[00:07:29] Jolene: mean, don't you think though, that if, if they took the cameras away and they took the reporters away, in a, it was a, a meeting. you could have the transcripts after the meeting from, you know, a transcriber that was, was sitting in there.
[00:07:41] But if you took away all of the, the, the production quality that it's set up right now, that maybe you wouldn't get her going through her burn book because make no mistake, she was performing Pam Bondi was performing for one person
[00:07:56] nicole: Yes. Oh,
[00:07:57] Jolene: and it was Trump.
[00:07:58] nicole: Absolutely.
[00:07:58] Jolene: I'm sure [00:08:00] she was doing exactly what he wanted her to do.
[00:08:02] And that was, I mean, and, and I don't, and I don't know her, I don't, I have not followed her, so I don't know what she's like. I know that she came to fame, because she was a, a, a staunch Trump supporter from, um, as the Attorney General, general in Florida.
[00:08:18] nicole: Here we go. Pam Bondy served as a member of Trump's legal defense team during his first impeachment trial in 2020,
[00:08:25] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:08:26] nicole: as a close advisor and personal attorney for him in various capacities. She later became a vocal supporter helping to spread claims about the 2020 election before being appointed to the Trump administration.
[00:08:39] Jolene: I think she was performing for Trump. I think she was doing exactly what she was to do and um, or what she would think that her boss would want her to do,
[00:08:48] nicole: Well, one
[00:08:48] Jolene: and.
[00:08:48] nicole: I read, Jolene, is that, and I don't know if you've heard this as well, that the staff members like that he's texting them to give her responses in real time too,
[00:08:59] Jolene: Oh [00:09:00] God.
[00:09:00] nicole: which I could imagine. 'cause of course he's watching, of course
[00:09:03] Jolene: Right,
[00:09:04] nicole: and
[00:09:04] Jolene: right.
[00:09:04] nicole: who he, who's doing a good job and who's not
[00:09:07] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:09:08] nicole: job.
[00:09:08] Jolene: So here's what I think is gonna be interesting is if, if we're all getting to the point where we're sick of the theatrics and, and the mean talk and the, you know, lack of civility, is going to change? Uh, you and I have talked about this a little bit. Is this gonna change for the 2028 election?
[00:09:25] Because I see Gavin Newsom being. talking just like Trump, when he was interviewed in Davos, Switzerland, um, Gavin Newsom,
[00:09:33] he sounded so much like Trump. I mean, he sounded like he was off the cuff just saying, you know, really, um, was like,
[00:09:41] things that were.
[00:09:41] nicole: knee pads.
[00:09:43] Jolene: again, I wanna say unprofessional or, you know, the, the civility is out the window, but it's, it's almost like this guttural reaction to things instead of thinking things out thoroughly and saying the right thing. But is that what people want?
[00:09:59] nicole: I had heard [00:10:00] about this Munich speech that, Marco Rubio gave, and I remember like, like, oh, right. JD Vance gave it a year ago. I don't, I never saw it at the time.
[00:10:11] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:10:12] nicole: So I was like, here I am watching like all this Pam Bondy stuff.
[00:10:15] And then I was like, I am to watch this Marco Rubio thing ' cause clearly I, what I was hearing in the media was that was a. like praise and shift in tone that the European Union was like, oh. So I was like, I need to watch this, right? So
[00:10:37] Jolene: There's an adult in the room.
[00:10:38] nicole: I text and I texted you afterwards because it's 20 minutes.
[00:10:41] And I encourage everyone, Republican, democrat, liberal, conservative, independent, you name it, watch this speech. He was direct. He wasn't candy coating, it was like speaking of theatrics or everything's [00:11:00] theater, right?
[00:11:00] And that's how I look at everything. I'm like, okay, what? What is happening here? And so here he is with a live. Audience of leaders, and you could feel the tension as soon as he got on stage, you could feel people holding their breath. Then he started to speak and then he said, at one point, and we need you, we need you to be strong. all of a sudden you could feel it, know, sativa over here. And it was like the room went. Okay.
[00:11:36] Jolene: When he said, we belong together, we, we are connected spiritually and culturally. And, we are born, we came from Europe. and the way he explained what the approach was, even I as a liberal was like. Well, that makes sense.
[00:11:58] Yeah.
[00:11:59] nicole: [00:12:00] I like how your tone is. I, I, I want to trust you. I feel safer with you. Right.
[00:12:09] Jolene: Right.
[00:12:09] nicole: huh. So this is what a grownup does.
[00:12:12] This is what
[00:12:13] Jolene: Yep.
[00:12:15]
[00:12:15] nicole: when I was a kid, it was like you didn't feel like, oh gosh, are we all gonna die necessarily? Right.
[00:12:21] Jolene: Right, right.
[00:12:22] nicole: I went and I immediately texted you and I was like, whoa. And in my opinion, uh, Republicans, that's your candidate.
[00:12:32] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:12:33] nicole: your candidate.
[00:12:34] Because then I went back and I watched the JD Vance speech and And that to me was like the mean girl version. But the boy version,
[00:12:41] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:12:41] nicole: he was
[00:12:42] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:12:42] nicole: beep, beep, beep. Like and, and also very, to me it was a personal agenda for him. Like he was gonna talk about the things that were mattered to him. necessarily
[00:12:53] Jolene: Trump,
[00:12:54] nicole: And to Trump.
[00:12:55] Jolene: like he was, he was the voice of Trump in, in that [00:13:00] room.
[00:13:00] nicole: There was
[00:13:00] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:13:01] nicole: was a very evangelical lens. There was also a very, like, shammy mean, like mean boy lens. And I was like, oof. and no wonder a year ago Europe was like, uh,
[00:13:16] Jolene: uh, no. I thought it was fantastic. the first time I remember Marco Rubio speaking is he had, um, the Republican response to, was it Obama's?
[00:13:25] It must have been Obama's,
[00:13:27] nicole: okay.
[00:13:28] Jolene: state of the Union address and. Bless his sweet little heart. He was so nervous that he had to take a drink of water in between. Do you remember that? Maybe it wasn't on your radar,
[00:13:39] and was I think, kind of his kickoff to his presidential, um, aspirations and, um, and the poor guy just, I mean, there were memes about him and everything about how nervous he was. Well, I noticed that in this Munich speech again, like. There were times that his, um, and maybe, in fact, I think he, I even read somewhere that [00:14:00] he has some.
[00:14:01] Like it's been identified as a disorder or something that you get really nervous or you get dry mouth or, you know, whatever it is. And, and I noticed it in the speech too, and I thought, come on buddy. You gotta, you're gonna have to reign that in before the, uh, the 28 campaign if you're gonna be able to give these speeches.
[00:14:18] So anyway, I just, yes, it was really refreshing. he was the adult in the room that we hadn't seen in a long time. I mean, I even if you talk about Trump's first four years and you're like, eh, the way that he spoke, and then you had Biden who didn't know where he was and gave, you know, gave some speeches that were just not even coherent and, and you're like, okay.
[00:14:41] Finally we've got, you know, we've had a, a dry spell here of decorum.
[00:14:46] nicole: Yeah, I mean, I, I guess I didn't read it so much as nerves. He was, he's much more soft spoken. and you know what? nervous, like I want a
[00:14:57] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:14:58] nicole: Like that was the refreshing [00:15:00] part. It was like, we could work with this. I mean, he, listen, he's an old school Republican. I am shocked that he's in the Trump administration.
[00:15:08] I think we all were when he agreed to be in it, and
[00:15:12] Jolene: loved, I mean, he got bipartisan support for being in the Trump administration, right? I mean, he was,
[00:15:19] nicole: relieved because he's got a level head. and would agree with you, Jolene, about Gavin. honestly think he's a good guy think he's absolutely a politician for sure.
[00:15:29] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:15:30] nicole: Uh, that said, I think if he, if he wants to really be heard by. I don't know if he'll be heard by the right, but even by the left, this punching stuff doesn't work. This macho stuff doesn't work. I, I'm not saying don't fight and don't like stand up for what you believe, but I, I mean, as Michelle would say, Michelle Obama like, don't go low. I think we're all so tired of this, [00:16:00] like, don't go low anymore, The public is ready for it. Yes.
[00:16:03] You're gonna have the extreme on the right and the left. We've talked about this before. Who, who, who, like all the vitriol,
[00:16:10] Jolene: I, I mean, I really think it's, it's a chicken or egg thing here. I mean, it's, it's what we've talked about with our friend Brad Portus. Are the people who say the most outrageous things getting the attention because they are performative and outrage performs better than, than restraint?
[00:16:25] nicole: Right,
[00:16:26] Jolene: is it that, that then those people who are doing the right things and doing it the right way, they don't get the publicity and so then we don't know who they are. which is better to lead with. And I, I, I, are we gonna know who these people are if they're not saying things that, that get the attention from social media?
[00:16:42] I think the other thing is that, and, and maybe this is part of, of why Trump won, was that he was speaking the way. Most Americans speak, you know, he does. He takes away the elitism. He takes away, I mean, he's more like, though he [00:17:00] is elite, he speaks to, he speaks to the language of the working class. And so there were more people who were like, yeah,
[00:17:09] nicole: but here's the thing, Jolene, Trump is a master at reading the room.
[00:17:12] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:17:13] nicole: like, he just is. And that's, you can't learn that. And I think that's why
[00:17:20] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:17:20] nicole: where he is. He can speak to anybody
[00:17:24] Jolene: Okay, but so did BL Bill Clinton. I mean if we look, if we go back now and you look at Bill Clinton was the master of,
[00:17:32] I Feel your pain. that was good, wasn't it?
[00:17:36] nicole: That's really
[00:17:36] Jolene: Um. I, you know, he could read a room, man. He could speak to the elites. He could speak to, you know, Arkansas farmers he could speak to, uh, uh, and everybody in between the black community loved him.
[00:17:50] He spoke to, you know, whites, uh, in Washington, DC loved him. I mean, there he could, he could read the room.
[00:17:59] nicole: absolutely. And I [00:18:00] think that's, you know. It's a very good point, and I'm not sure we have a candidate out there yet. that I think is what everyone wants, and I think it's because people want to be seen. They want to be belong. They want to feel heard.
[00:18:17] And that's
[00:18:17] Jolene: Yes.
[00:18:18] nicole: that, that, that we've talked about before, that Trump did sp speak to more of Americans. He was seeing that certain populations had been ignored
[00:18:29] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:30] nicole: and the Democrats ignored those populations, did not do a good job at saying, I, I feel your pain, as
[00:18:37] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:18:37] nicole: say. And I think I mean Trump is such a force.
[00:18:41] It will be really interesting when he's out of office because. So much of the argument is against Trump versus policy.
[00:18:52] Jolene: Yeah, right. Um, unfortunately I don't think he's ever gonna be out of office because now he's the chairman of the Board of [00:19:00] Peace, and so he will be like the ruler of the world. Like I honestly think that's what this whole Board of Peace thing, he wants to be the ruler of the world, like president was good enough, but now I want to rule the world
[00:19:10] nicole: Yes, yes. I mean, he's also not gonna be alive forever. But it doesn't seem like
[00:19:17] Jolene: maybe.
[00:19:18] nicole: he is. going soon. I don't know. I don't know.
[00:19:22] Jolene: I, I, so I think there is, there is a difference between authenticity and bluntness.
[00:19:30] nicole: Yes.
[00:19:31] Jolene: we all want the authenticity. We want someone to speak to us on our level and whatever. Obviously that's, that has to transcend all levels, you know, from, from the smartest of the smart to the, um, the people who just want to have a president help 'em out a little bit. but the bluntness and the lack of civility is the thing that I think is, is what we're talking about.
[00:19:55] nicole: Well, and I think Gavin does have qualities of this. [00:20:00] and I do think Marco Rubio has qualities of this now that I've seen that speech you can be direct and authentic and
[00:20:10] Jolene: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:20:12] nicole: And I think, I don't think that that's a red or blue issue. I think we all want that.
[00:20:17] Jolene: are we going to prioritize those substance over style? Are we going to say, okay, Newsom, you are good looking and you're fun to listen to and oh, look at him. versus he's a crappy governor of California. So, I mean, is that, I'm sorry. That's my opinion. And so, know, are we going to, what's the priority?
[00:20:42] Like, I hope.
[00:20:43] nicole: is so unfortunately, like runs our world.
[00:20:48] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:50] nicole: media lives by it,
[00:20:52] Jolene: Yeah. Right?
[00:20:53] nicole: about what it looks like versus what is authentic. So I do think that there could be a [00:21:00] backlash to that. Like you're talk, like what we're talking about, that we are so exhausted and we want
[00:21:05] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:21:06] nicole: we see through the style.
[00:21:08] Jolene: okay. Can I ask you this? As a liberal woman, are women judged more harshly than men when they are speaking strongly? as a, if a man speaks that way, he's strong and he's forceful, but a woman could be unstable and unhinged,
[00:21:30] nicole: Absolutely I do. I mean, listen. The way Pam Bondy was acting was so crazy bummed me out. 'cause I was like, you're the attorney General, general of the United States and you're a woman and there haven't been many of us and I'd like to have a more professional woman up there you are representing us in some way. this is a personal story that I'm gonna tell you that happened yesterday.
[00:21:59] we had an [00:22:00] issue with our HVAC system and we've had an issue of it for it. Like there's this one unit, it's been broken four times in the last two months. You know, like everybody, this is a pet peeve that I know we all have. These service people give you a three to four hour window. You're like waiting all day, like your day is ruined, yada, yada, yada. So this person comes and he's been here four times Josh is not here, so I'm by myself and I'm working, but he's, he's like 20 minutes after the window was supposed to end, and he's been very friendly to me. so he's sort of like very casual about this hvac.
[00:22:40] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:22:41] nicole: Long story short, he like, you know. in and I'm, I'm very cold to him 'cause I've had it and I then hear, 'cause my house is tiny, I'm downstairs working on this episode and I hear him on the phone he's chatting [00:23:00] with it might be a colleague, but like, ha ha ha. And I'm like, I've been waiting for four and a half hours now. You haven't fixed this, fucking hvac. And so I go upstairs to like get a power cord, just really to see what the fuck he's doing. And he's just like, ba ba laughing. Ha ha ha. And, but he sees me and immediately he gets off the phone. I mean, it's a, it's a tiny house.
[00:23:31] There's no way that he
[00:23:32] Jolene: Oh
[00:23:33] nicole: doesn't
[00:23:33] Jolene: God.
[00:23:33] nicole: me, right?
[00:23:34] So I go and I go back downstairs and then he comes downstairs I look at him and I'm sitting down and I say, really angry. And he goes,
[00:23:45] Jolene: Oh,
[00:23:46] nicole: And I go, you know, has been a really frustrating experience and I was in this tone.
[00:23:53] Jolene: okay.
[00:23:54] nicole: And my, I, I said one thing I hate is my time being wasted. this is the fourth [00:24:00] time, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I saw his eyes dead in. It was wild.
[00:24:05] And I'm thinking to myself, he's not listening to me. The reason I bring this up is I'm like, I've called and no one does anything. I'm thinking to myself, oh my God, you just shut down. 'cause I'm a woman I am this crazy woman 'cause I'm mad that this hasn't been fixed.
[00:24:24] And he just looks at me and he goes, would you like me to leave?
[00:24:27] Jolene: Oh, oh my gosh.
[00:24:29] nicole: I go. I'd like you to fix it, and then I would like you to leave.
[00:24:34] Jolene: Oh my.
[00:24:36] nicole: and I had so much rage and Josh is at a conference and I called him, or he called me when I was in the grocery and I was just like, babe, I know you can't possibly know what this feels like. It really sucks when you feel like if you stand up for yourself [00:25:00] that you are being irrational. 'cause I was like, I just kept thinking, what would it feel like if you were the one saying this to him? Not me. And so I do think we are, we are absolutely held to a higher standard that when we even get bitchy that we're not allowed to.
[00:25:19] I'm like, that's so not cool. Pam Bondi Extreme. That was like, lady, I don't even know, man, woman, or child should never act like that. It was just like, no. But yes, I do think we're held to a higher standard. Do you?
[00:25:34] Jolene: Uh, oh,
[00:25:35] nicole: Yeah,
[00:25:36] Jolene: do, I don't see it as clearly black and white as women and men,
[00:25:40] Obviously there's a bigger issue
[00:25:41] nicole: that's what I was thinking with Pam Bondi she's so in over her head, and when people are in over her head, they start screaming.
[00:25:50] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:25:50] nicole: if you watch, I mean not just the little edited snippets that everyone wants you to watch to get mad, but I like, I was watching a lot of it just to see the stuff that possibly [00:26:00] wasn't edited.
[00:26:01] 'cause it wasn't as sexy and exciting she would just start screaming for no reason.
[00:26:06] Jolene: This was interesting because I, because I do think that there is something to be said for, Women versus men. I do think there's something to be said for the, the civility and decorum of our politicians right now. but I, I think it's gonna be interesting to see have we reached our breaking point with the way that that. Politicians speak to us, and in turn we are speaking to each other. And is that driven by social media and the clicks and the rage bait that we've talked about? or is it being driven because that's how we want to be related? You know, we wanna, we wanna hear our politicians, be relatable and be like, we're talking to our buddies, you know, at a bar. I, I don't know.
[00:26:50] nicole: Yeah, I don't know either. I mean, I remember like, there was always this idea with George w when he was running. It's like, I wanna have a beer with him. And I'm like, I want someone that runs the country. [00:27:00] but I also think that we've, bumped up against this phenomenon with, we've got to talk where we're in this culture where the rage bait, the click bait sells, but you and I have said. To Brianna, our producer, like I know this is counterintuitive to how the podcast world works and how social media works, but we actually want to spread a message that's different not like kumbaya everybody, but like, Hey, we're trying to model something where we can disagree and we can still be respectful, kind, loving, funny, all the things, that's a really hard pivot. It's even hard for us because we're so ingrained in this world to be combative, and even our audience sometimes does not know what to do with our podcast because they're like, right. And we've, we've had it with our communities like, why aren't you telling Jolene this?
[00:27:58] Or Why aren't you telling Nicole this? And I'm like, [00:28:00] because we're actually, we are trying to be the egg.
[00:28:05] Jolene: Oh, not the chicken. I see what you did there.
[00:28:09] nicole: That's what I'm thinking.
[00:28:10] Jolene: Or the
[00:28:11] nicole: Yeah. Where the eggs birthing a new idea. A new A new chick.
[00:28:16] do you have a, would you rather my darling,
[00:28:22] Jolene: Would you rather,
[00:28:23] nicole: Yes.
[00:28:24] Jolene: be on a congressional hearing on the panel
[00:28:29] grilling
[00:28:30] nicole: Okay.
[00:28:31] Jolene: with six of your closest friends or. Go to lunch with Pam Bonde, just the two of you.
[00:28:44] nicole: Jolene, You are the board of directors of would you Rather Questions? You are the board of peace. You are like the empress of the world of would you rathers, you are so good at this. I wanna go to [00:29:00] lunch with her.
[00:29:00] Jolene: Oh, I'm
[00:29:01] nicole: I wanna go to lunch with her.
[00:29:03] Jolene: that's exactly what this
[00:29:04] nicole: Yes, I wanna go to lunch with her.
[00:29:05] Jolene: Like, do you want to have a team with you that you can go
[00:29:08] nicole: This does it Well, it doesn't work. Right. And I'm not gonna get an authentic Pam Bondi because you know what there were moments I really did feel for her. I really did. I mean, bear with me audience. You watch this person that's under directive of this man, and like, I wonder if she, we'd go to lunch and she'd start crying.
[00:29:33] Like, I am, like, I'm exhausted.
[00:29:36] Jolene: Nicole, You
[00:29:36] nicole: know?
[00:29:36] Jolene: know how
[00:29:37] nicole: Like, I, I don't, I want out and I don't know how to get out or, or you know, I can't, someone like. Gimme a break or doesn't everyone know that this is really hard or I'm in over my skis or whatever. Like I wanna have the real conversation. 'cause I don't think she's gonna sit there at dinner, at lunch with me and go like that whole, like
[00:29:59] Jolene: Uh,
[00:29:59] nicole: the, [00:30:00] with the Pam Bondy mad face. like you said, these, these are stages of theatrics. and I also fantasized about being on that panel and just asking questions very differently and literally asking the question
[00:30:13] Alright. This is more esoteric, I suppose.
[00:30:18] Would you rather be unable to close any door once it's opened or be able to open any door once it's closed
[00:30:30]
[00:30:30] Jolene: I think I wanna open any door that is closed,
[00:30:33] nicole: I am with you.
[00:30:34] Jolene: right?
[00:30:35] nicole: Would you?
[00:30:35] Jolene: just gonna have to deal with those doors that are opened and you can't close them. You're just gonna have to deal with them. But maybe you open a different door and that helps you deal with the draft that's coming from that door that you can't close. God, that's deep. That's deep.
[00:30:51] nicole: deep. It's deep. It's deep.
[00:30:54] Jolene: Wow.
[00:30:56] nicole: Do thank you for today. I was really excited about [00:31:00] talking about this subject.
[00:31:01] Jolene: Well thank you, listener and viewer for, for sticking with us on this. And if you like what you've heard, please share it, subscribe. We're on all of the, um, we're on all the
[00:31:11] nicole: Yep,
[00:31:12] Jolene: apple, Spotify, YouTube.
[00:31:14] nicole: yep.
[00:31:15] Jolene: join us every week on, we've got to Talk and if you've got suggestions for us, we would love to hear from you.
[00:31:21] Um, reach out on our website.
[00:31:23] nicole: I.
[00:31:23] Jolene: got to talk.com and um, or DM us on Instagram. We always love those. Um, let us know.
[00:31:31] nicole: Yep. Thank you so much, Jolene. I will see you in a moment. Bye you guys. Bye.
[00:31:37]
