Jolene used to start every morning with Fox News until her daughter, Bobbi told her to switch to Mo News, and now both of us listen. So we were thrilled to sit down with Mosheh Oinounou, founder of Mo News and former executive producer of the CBS Evening News, and Jill Wagner, the managing editor and co-host of the Mo News Podcast.
Mo News started by accident. It was the early days of the Covid lockdown, and Mo, who had recently left CBS where he was executive producer of the CBS Evening News, was the “news guy” in his friend and family group. Everyone kept asking him what was going on and how worried they should be? Texting them all got cumbersome, so he started posting short updates on Instagram Stories. What began as a group text to a couple hundred people turned into thousands of followers, and eventually a daily podcast, a newsletter and a team of more than a dozen people.
The pitch has never changed: here’s what’s been verified; you decide what to do with it. Jill, a former CBS MoneyWatch correspondent, had followed along from the start and asked to be brought on.
Both came from legacy media, and neither is interested in tearing it down. Mosheh made the case for it. Legacy outlets still have the resources, the cameras, and the long investigations that hold presidents, mayors and CEOs accountable. But he was just as clear about the business problem. Advertisers no longer need to buy a spot on NBC when they can buy one on Facebook or Google, and now AI summaries at the top of a search mean people don’t even click through. In his words, AI is taking the rest of the meal that Meta and Google started on.
In the Reuters global survey that asks people whether they trust the media in their country, Americans come in last. Last. That’s the backdrop for how Mo News tries to operate. They answer their DMs, they admit it when they get something wrong, and Mosheh jokes that he’s spent six years trying to equally upset both sides.
What I loved most is that he doesn’t want Mo News to be your only news source. He tells middle schoolers to treat news like a diet. A little chocolate is fine, but you also need the broccoli. If you only follow accounts that tell you you’re right all the time, you end up in a cocoon, and he pointed to the 2016 election, when plenty of people in his own newsroom were stunned by the result. This landed for Jolene and me, because we recently spent a full week watching only Fox News and MSNOW for our own podcast. We were assaulted by the loud music, the flashing graphics and the constant fear. Mosheh’s take on why was blunt: the goal is to make you angry.
We also got a peek behind the curtain at how stories get chosen. Mo walked us through why the Russian plague story rose to the top: locked-down hospitals, people in white suits, an anti-plague institute in a country with a history of bioweapons research, and officials changing their story within 24 hours. He also laughed at how people jump to conspiracy theories. In his experience, Washington isn’t House of Cards or West Wing. It’s Veep, and anything two people know gets leaked within a day.
We got into the newsroom itself too. Mosheh was candid that most journalists lean liberal, that the profession pulls in people who want to change the world, and that the low starting salaries and elite-school pipeline narrow who gets in. He talked about a generational shift in how younger reporters view leaving their politics at the door. At Mo News, he says, the only bias he’ll own up to is against boring stories.
Their “Good for the Soul” picks were simple. Jill recommended a jigsaw puzzle on the kitchen table, with no phones. Mosheh’s advice was to pick up the phone. A lot of fights, he said, are just two tired people texting snippily, and a five-minute call would have solved it.
That last one might be the best advice in the episode. Verify what you read, widen your menu, and then call someone you disagree with.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Mo News: https://www.mo.news/
Mo News Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mosheh
Mo News YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/moshehnews
Mo News Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MoshehNews
Mo News X: https://x.com/Mosheh
Mo News TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mosheh
Good for the Soul: Puzzles and Pick Up the Phone!
We’ve Got To Talk - Where To Find Us :
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2
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[00:00:00] nicole: She's conservative, and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money, and we say that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:19] Welcome to We've Got to Talk. Welcome Mo Rocca and Jill Wagner.
[00:00:25] Jolene: We are so excited to have you guys, and for all of our listeners, if you've followed us for any time, you know that we've referred to Mo News a million times. So we're thrilled to be able to bring them to you today. Mo Rocca is an Emmy, Murrow, and a Webby Award-winning journalist.
[00:00:41] In 2020, Mo launched Mo News, a non-partisan media brand devoted to curating verified and balanced news. He's also the former executive director of the CBS Evening News. Jill Wagner is an award-winning journalist who serves as the managing editor and co-host of the Mo News Podcast and daily newsletter [00:01:00] alongside founder Mo.
[00:01:01] She was a CBS News Money Watch correspondent and an anchor of Cheddar News and Newsday TV. Welcome, Mo and Jill.
[00:01:10] Mosheh: It is a privilege and an honor to be on with you guys. We are so grateful for you guys preaching the gospel, if you will- Mm-hmm ... about Mo News.
[00:01:18] jill: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:18] Jolene: Well, I have to start b- by saying that, okay, so in the morning when I get ready, I'd always have Fox News on.
[00:01:25] Mosheh: You're like my father
[00:01:26] Jolene: Yes, yes Yeah ... exactly. And so Bobby, our youngest daughter, 25 years old, she goes, "Oh, God, you, Mom, you really, you've got, you've got to watch Mo News. I need you to, every morning when you're getting ready, just put it on. It's a podcast. You can have it in your bathroom." In fact, I was on a call with you, and so she was telling us both- As in me
[00:01:45] it, yeah ... a- and Nicole, and she, and she said, "No, like, both of you need to listen to it," and we were hooked. So I feel like you guys get ready with me every morning. I mean, I feel like, you know, like we're doing our makeup and our hair together, so thank you. So that's why we're [00:02:00] so thrilled to have you guys here.
[00:02:01] jill: Well, thank you so much for having us, and I'm sure you guys can relate as well because there is something about podcasting, and I'm sure some of your listeners tell you the same thing, where they feel, people feel like they really know you because- Yes ... you're in their ear when they're in the shower, getting dressed, cooking, whatever it is, but you become part of people's lives.
[00:02:20] nicole: Yeah, it's an incredibly intimate medium, as it turns out. You both had this really, uh, accomplished careers in legacy media. Mo News started almost by accident it seems like. Is that a fair assessment? We were all in lockdown- Y- ... and
[00:02:36] Mosheh: like- Yeah, the business started by accident. The, the, um, initial act was sheer boredom- Oh
[00:02:41] and confusion-
[00:02:41] nicole: Okay ...
[00:02:42] Mosheh: and anxiety.
[00:02:42] nicole: Fair.
[00:02:43] Mosheh: Many of us recall exactly where we were in February of 2020, March of 2020. Mm-hmm. I happened to have left CBS about six months before that. I was looking at, like, documentary jobs. I needed a break from daily news. It was a burnout. Mm-hmm. You know, journalism is a, is a, we always, uh, tell folks is a lifestyle.
[00:02:59] It's not a bu- [00:03:00] you know, it's not a normal job. It's a lifestyle. And so, you know, fast-forward to the, you know, winter of 2020, and we're watching the headlines unfold, the lockdowns happen, and my friends and family are all like, "Uh, you're the news guy in the family. Like, what is going on? How worried should I be?
[00:03:16] How much toilet paper do I need?" So I was like, all right, texting all of you is like cumbersome. And so, uh, Twitter is an angry place, and Instagram, it's a friendly place. It's still where as of 2020 I'm sharing like what I had for breakfast and pictures of rainbows and, you know, and it's not like that anymore.
[00:03:37] But it was- No ... six years ago. And so I'm on Instagram Stories like, "FYI, just watched the Fauci briefing. FYI, this is an interesting report coming out of Italy. Uh, this is what we know about that. Here is an epidemiologist who warns X, Y and Z." And so what was my basically group text to a couple hundred friends and family suddenly we're at 1,000 people, 5,000 [00:04:00] people, 10, 50.
[00:04:01] And at that time my then girlfriend, who I just moved in with, she's now the wife and mother of my two daughters, uh, Alex, is like, "You know, you have a thing here." Mm-hmm. "You should be applying to outside jobs." And now we're into 2020, late 2020. And so how do I take this following and this thing I was doing out of boredom and anxiety during COVID and turn it into something larger?
[00:04:23] What are my kinda basic tenets? Like I want trustworthy information. I'm gonna give you, uh, what we know that's been verified. I'll let you sorta decide what to do with it, sort of as our kind of tagline, elevator pitch. How do I turn that into something larger over time? And so that's the origin story that's now, you know, we're expanded, we're more than a dozen people.
[00:04:42] We have a daily podcast. Uh, we have a daily newsletter. We have a subscriber platform, we have a Slack channel for members, uh, we do monthly workshops, we got curricula for teachers. Uh-
[00:04:53] nicole: Oh, wow.
[00:04:53] Mosheh: I'm, I'm missing some stuff, but we got a lot going on.
[00:04:55] nicole: When did you come into this, Jill? How did... From the beginning, or?
[00:04:59] jill: Oh, so [00:05:00] Moshe and I, uh, had always been friendly. I was, as you mentioned, the Money Watch correspondent for CBS. Moshe was working behind the scenes. He was an executive producer at CBS. So we had met years before, uh, when, when we were both at the network. I had left, and then he had left, but I, I was following him on Instagram.
[00:05:20] Okay. So I was watching what he was doing. Oh, that's amazing. Um, and I've always been, despite the fact that I've always been in kind of legacy media, I've always been very interested in non-traditional media. Uh, and the reason being is that I just would see what my friends, where they were getting their information, and I was always on TV.
[00:05:40] And my friends would always say, "Oh, my mom saw you on TV." Mm. Or like, "My dad saw you on TV," whatever, and then they would ask me about the story. And it occurred to me that nobody my age was watching TV anymore. Despite the fact that I was getting up, and Moshe- Jill ... I think you could probably relate to this, at l- two in the morning- Yeah
[00:05:57] and putting on, well, you can't relate to [00:06:00] the face of makeup, but I'm like, "I'm doing all this, and nobody, just your parents are watching?" Um, anyway, so I've always been interested in, in kind of giving people information where they are, meeting people where they are. Yeah. I got pregnant with my second child.
[00:06:16] I had been commuting at super early hours into the city. I loved what Moshe was doing, and I was like, "You know what? Bring me on. We'll do a podcast. We'll do a newsletter." I, I, and we're, Moshe and I are very just philosophically aligned in terms of news, which I'm sure we'll talk about. Yeah. But, uh, I, that, the rest is history.
[00:06:34] So basically he said, "All right, let's do it," and, and we've done all the things.
[00:06:37] Mosheh: Yeah, and I say, when I was running, you know, my last job at, uh, CBS, was running the CBS Evening News. Right. The executive producer of the Evening News. So I had about, like, six, at the time we got, like, between six and seven million people watching every night.
[00:06:48] The only person I knew who watched was my mother. The median age of a viewer is 67, 68 years old. Yeah. By the way, cable news is, like, 70. Oh, God. Half the viewers are over the age of 70. [00:07:00] That's one of the things where, like, I enjoyed doing digital streaming stuff, which I ran for a while at CBS, and when they s- you know, brought me back to broadcast to do, you know, this is a show that Walter Cronkite used to host, that Dan Rather used to host.
[00:07:10] Yeah. You know, it was the news for America. But like, who am I doing news for? Like, I don't, I've never heard from any of the people who w- I, I understand there's six million people who watch this. I've never met any of them besides my mother. And so, you know, they, that was one of, I think, the things that, uh, really reinforced to me when we went digital, went with Mo News, was like, "Oh, I now know who follows me.
[00:07:29] They talk to me. We have a conversation."
[00:07:31] Jolene: Okay, so then what does the next 10 years look like? Do you think we're gonna get rid of legacy media as we know it today?
[00:07:38] Mosheh: Get rid of it? I mean, I... If it's up to Donald Trump, sure. Um, but, you know, like, I... You know, like, there are people who have understandable, uh, critiques of legacy media, and there are organizations within legacy media that will not exist in 10 years, right?
[00:07:53] Uh, at the end of the day, I'm gonna do c- point, counterpoint, which is my way, which frustrates my wife to no end. I'm a Gemini. I see both sides of everything. I [00:08:00] am, too. So, so is Jill. So am I. There's- What? What? There's like seven of us here out of four. Yes. Oh,
[00:08:06] Jolene: wow.
[00:08:06] Mosheh: Um, if you believe the zodiac. The point is- Let's play point and counterpoint on legacy media, Jill.
[00:08:11] Okay. '
[00:08:11] Jolene: Kay.
[00:08:12] Mosheh: Column number one, the case for legacy media. They have resources and journalists which new media does not have. Okay. We, uh, whether it's your podcast or our podcast and organization, we at the end of the day, even people who are very critical of legacy media, will have to admit that most of their information still comes from legacy media at its core.
[00:08:32] Mm. Right? They have the resources. They're the ones with cameras traveling with the president around the world. They have live feeds of everything when things are happening. When, um, you know, ultimately major events are unfolding, good, bad, whatever, you're tuning to one of those networks that has three letters or four letters- Mm
[00:08:48] or five letters. And so at the end of the day- You and I have many critiques of legacy media. All of us do. I worked in the belly of the beast. I can tell you everything they do wrong. At the end of [00:09:00] the day, though, I don't love a world where there is none of that legacy media anymore, and there's no one in the White House press room.
[00:09:07] There's no one holding our mayors and our presidents and our governors and our world leaders and our business leaders accountable, right? I mean, some of the most important things we have learned and revelations that have taken place, whether it's AI companies, which hold that thought for a second, or administrations or, you know, whomever, come from long-term investigations often done by legacy media organizations.
[00:09:30] At the same time, there's a major business problem legacy media has because, well, most of them made a lot of money back in the day because most advertisers, if you run a company, you had to run ads on NBC, in the Washington Post, in your local, uh, newspaper, to reach Jolene and Nicole and everyone listening to this podcast.
[00:09:49] You no longer need to do that. You put an ad on Facebook. You put an ad on Google. Uh, you know, there are new ways, uh, to reach people. You don't need to buy an ad on NBC or [00:10:00] ABC or CNN. Well, that's the way they make their money. Yeah. So they are in a race for their life for, you know, how to continue to make profitability, 'cause these are private organizations, right?
[00:10:10] And so how will they survive in this world? You know, one th- trend line we're watching right now, by the way, is when you, until recently, Googled a topic, an article came up about that topic, whether it was a recipe, something to do this weekend Something about the president or your governor or, you know, whatever it is you're researching.
[00:10:28] Now, what do you get at the top of Google? You get an AI summary.
[00:10:32] jill: Mm.
[00:10:32] Mosheh: That answers many of your questions. You never have to click on that website, which then means I don't get that click. I don't get that revenue. You don't see that ad. Ah. You might not click on another article. You might not subscribe to that story because AI is now eating whatever was left of the lunch that Meta and Google took.
[00:10:50] Mm-hmm. AI is taking the rest of our meal. And so that is, you know, at its core, one of the larger existential crises the media now faces. [00:11:00] Hm. Which is a separate conversation from do we trust the media? Do they deserve to be around? And the people who do good work, you know, deserve to be paid for that work, but now, you know, you have fewer and fewer people coming.
[00:11:09] I'll leave it there, but this is, this is the, this is the topic when it comes to the future of media.
[00:11:14] nicole: What is the most important thing for you and, and Jill in creating your, your news every single day? What is, is it bringing back trust? Is it s- I mean, you talk about, you know, what do you say? You say, uh, you read between the lines so that, you know, just the facts read between the lines so you don't have to.
[00:11:35] What is the number one priority for you guys every day?
[00:11:39] jill: Moshe, I'll let you- Uh, well, Moshe, you accompany, so- Jill and I have very different priorities every day. No, no, no. Well, that- We, we both have- We
[00:11:45] nicole: wondered that too.
[00:11:45] jill: That was another question ... we both have a similar philosophy. Well, that, that we could get into.
[00:11:49] Um, but Moshe, no, we have a morning meeting- Mm-hmm ... um, where everybody pitches ideas. Ultimately, we are still presenting information that people do need to know. Right. It's like how do you [00:12:00] understand the world? What is important? One of the stories we're working on is the plague or the alleged plague that was, uh, discovered that somebody, uh, that researcher died from- Mm-hmm
[00:12:10] we thought, in Siberia.
[00:12:12] Mosheh: We have no idea because Russia won't share, uh-
[00:12:15] nicole: Anything.
[00:12:15] jill: And so the way that we would approach that story, which I think is different from the way perhaps other news outlets would approach it, is like a real honest look. What do we know? Is this something we need to worry about? A, a reality check as opposed to like, "Plague in Russia," you know?
[00:12:32] And that would probably get more clicks, uh, but we do need to present the news responsibly because we want people to trust us.
[00:12:41] Mosheh: We are a small but mighty team- Mm-hmm ... I would say. Right? Mm-hmm. Uh, we, uh, don't have the resources of the BBC or CNN or the Associated Press to be able to bring you all of it, so we have to make choices every day in what we, we present.
[00:12:55] And so there's a combination of ways we do that, right? First, there's the top line things, which is, [00:13:00] like, is plague in Russia gonna be a thing? Is it like COVID? Like, what's different? What do we know, et cetera, right? There's a midterm election coming up. I mean, there's some top line things that are, like, sort of like these are the big things that we're monitoring.
[00:13:12] Everyone right now in our lives, you know, as we record this, has been talking about what took place at Cornell University, so that's a big topic. Uh, and so it's sort of like what are the big things that, like, as an organization tries to cover national and international news, we feel it necessary right now to cover.
[00:13:28] Category two, where is our audience right now? What are the topics they're asking the most things about? And so w- that's a, you know, more an art than a science, but we do do, you know, take a gauge. We are trying to utilize AI right now to go through all of our direct messages every day to give us a sense of like, hey, here are the topics people are asking most about or they're most engaged on.
[00:13:47] Now, by the way, some of those things will not surprise you, right? You know- Mm ... Cornell, et cetera. But some of them might be like, we've heard from five people who have all been reading this Facebook post or heard from their cousin or their uncle that, like, this is about to happen [00:14:00] in regards to the midterm elections, or this is what's happening in regards to AI.
[00:14:03] Can you break it down for me? And so oftentimes this is where, a- again, I love the medium, I love being able to do... you know, present stuff in a social media first way, in a new media way. Because, like, at times, Jolene and Nicole and everyone else out there, you're our assignment editor. You're telling us- Mm-hmm
[00:14:19] what to cover.
[00:14:20] jill: Right.
[00:14:20] Mosheh: And so, you know, we have choices. So we gotta cover some big things, and then, like, in the world of, like, here's 100 other stories we could cover today, where can we make a difference? Where can we demystify things? Where can we make a few phone calls or answer questions that the, the media hasn't?
[00:14:34] Mm-hmm. Um, but at its core, what does that speak to? Trust. Because we live in a world today where we, as consumers, demand much more from the brands that we buy things from, from, uh, the celebrities that we follow, from the politicians, and from the media organizations. And so how can we build that trust?
[00:14:54] Well, uh, "Whoa, they actually responded to me? Whoa, they're actually answering my question?"
[00:14:58] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:14:58] Mosheh: yeah. "Whoa, they actually like..." [00:15:00] You know, like, and I'll, I'll get notes from people, and you guys see this if you follow on Instagram. We'll take a screenshot like, "Hey, by the way- Mm, yeah ... I'm a doctor who works at this hospital," or, "I'm a teacher who works in this school.
[00:15:08] This- experience with it. Mm-hmm. So highlighting those stories, I think, is, is another way that we seek to improve trust, and I'll give you guys a statistic. For the past five years, Reuters, uh, the news organization, does a global survey, uh, asking people around the world, "Do you trust the media in your country?"
[00:15:25] Hmm. Do you know where Americans fall in the global survey?
[00:15:30] nicole: I do 'cause I've- Last ... last. It's crazy. Sorry,
[00:15:34] Mosheh: I, I didn't get a
[00:15:34] nicole: chance to- It's crazy. It's crazy.
[00:15:37] Mosheh: We're in last place. Last. Now, some of it might be uniquely American, but some of it probably speaks to the system we have here. Mm-hmm.
[00:15:44] nicole: Right.
[00:15:45] Mosheh: Uh, and where we're at.
[00:15:46] And so how do we, as a small but mighty organization, help to improve that number the best we can with the audience we have? And what does it mean at times? We might bring you something [00:16:00] you might not like. In a world- Mm ... in social media where, like, you can follow people who will tell you that you are right all the time- Yeah, right
[00:16:06] and the other side is terrible all the time. Mm-hmm. And so I'll hear from people, you know, "You've changed." I'm like, "Have I changed or have you
[00:16:14] jill: changed?" Um,
[00:16:14] Mosheh: I've been trying to e- like, equally upset both sides for six years with k- you know, information. And some people are okay with that, but some people understandably like, "Eh, it's breaking my bubble.
[00:16:24] That's not the way- Yeah, yeah ... I think about things." And by the way, and I'll, I'll say we do get stuff wrong sometimes, and we admit it, and I think that's part of trust, too. Mm-hmm. Uh, but you know, that's what we're thinking about.
[00:16:32] jill: Building on your question, though, about legacy media, I think that one of the things that is different about Mo News, both our, our podcast and the platform in general, is that Moshe and I have a background in legacy media.
[00:16:47] Yeah. And what Moshe was talking about in terms of they set the agenda, there's, there's fact-checking, there's a, there's, they have, there's sources. It's old-school journalism. Whether you think maybe it's [00:17:00] biased or, or... Look, there's, there's, uh, there is bias in terms of maybe the way, what stories you choose to cover and things like that.
[00:17:07] And so not that legacy media i- is perfect, but there are really good qualities about legacy media, and the fact that I think Moshe and I are both kind of trained in that way, verifying information- Hmm ... uh, sources and things like that. Like, wait, where is that information coming from? Yeah. How many people said that?
[00:17:25] Uh, and we're able to really, even though we're on a podcast or we're on Instagram and that's our platform, we're still, the way that we put news together, it's that legacy media, it's that old-school journalism that still informs how we, how we do it. We
[00:17:40] Mosheh: try to marry the two.
[00:17:41] nicole: I do think that it builds, it does build trust.
[00:17:45] I mean, I think you have those tools that a lot of people just go out and say, "Okay, I'm gonna tell the news," but they don't know what the, they're not... Like, they're just me and Jolene. Okay, we're gonna report something. We have no training, but people believe them. I mean, that's what we're- Sure. Yeah ... we're in [00:18:00] this, that we're in this time where people are just if you're on a screen and you say something, someone's gonna believe it versus-
[00:18:07] verifying it. Like, like you said about the AI thing. Jolene teases me because I hate AI. I, I think it's a huge problem and that, that says, that the AI thing is at the very top of the screen. I'm like, "No one's gonna verify anything anymore." I mean, do you worry at all that your viewers are gonna start trusting you too much?
[00:18:27] Mosheh: Trusting us too much?
[00:18:28] nicole: No. Too
[00:18:29] jill: much. Not a concern.
[00:18:30] Mosheh: That is not... I-
[00:18:33] nicole: You're like- I- ... please trust too much. But-
[00:18:35] Mosheh: Please trust me and don't-
[00:18:37] nicole: Your fa- listen, if you're, you gotta w- you gotta watch tha- this episode because your faces were golden just
[00:18:42] Mosheh: now. No, I, I'll, I'll say this. I
[00:18:44] jill: didn't think that's where you were going with it.
[00:18:45] I
[00:18:45] nicole: know.
[00:18:46] jill: I think
[00:18:47] nicole: that's why ...
[00:18:47] Mosheh: Um, I'll say this. I, I often push back on some of our viewers or listeners or people who meet me in real life, they're like, "You know, you're my only news source." I'm like, "I don't wanna hear that." Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I want you going to other places, [00:19:00] too. I think it's super important to get a, a diverse appetite.
[00:19:04] Uh, you know, I do a lot of sessions for middle schoolers, high schoolers on media literacy. A lot of teachers, uh, will, will bring us in talk to, you know, kids about verifying facts and questions- Mm ... they should ask. That, you know, just 'cause you saw something on TikTok, like, are you asking- ... who is that?
[00:19:18] What's their experience?
[00:19:20] jill: Right,
[00:19:20] Mosheh: right. Why do I think they're an expert in, I don't know, a war or diseases or what's happening in society, right? You know, I will try to go through that. And by the way, that's a lesson that is important for a 14-year-old, a 44-year-old, and an 84-year-old, right? Um, in terms of going through, you know, all of that.
[00:19:37] And what I talk to them about is, like, I want you to view the news like you view a diet, okay? That, like, we like to follow these accounts on social media that are like chocolate, right? They're like, you know, snacks. Well, what happens, sixth graders, if you only eat junk food? You're not gonna feel good.
[00:19:55] That's not good for your body. Mm-hmm. Like, you're gonna have issues. You [00:20:00] need the broccoli. You need the fruit. You know, you need your various groups, right? And so view news and information in the same way, you know, we refer to, like, a news appetite or, like, you know, a buffet. Like, you gotta get a little bit from here.
[00:20:12] You gotta see what the other side is saying here. If you live in New York, you gotta, you know, you get a certain cocoon. If you live in Tupelo, Mississippi, you're in a, i- in a different cocoon, right? How do you... To better understand your country, how do you get that diverse? And, you know, I'll, I'll, uh, note one fun anecdote from my time at CBS.
[00:20:29] In the aftermath of the 2016 election, there were a lot of people within that newsroom who were like, "How could Donald Trump have won this election?" It's like, well, you went to a private university and you live in Midtown Manhattan. Have you, uh- Right? You know- Mm-hmm ... have you traveled to other parts of the country?
[00:20:43] Mm-hmm. Do you have family in other parts of the country? Right? And among the people who, uh, were surprised by that 2016 result, and she's talked about this, is one Oprah Winfrey. And so Oprah comes into CBS and she goes, "You know what I wanna do? I wanna do a 60 Minute series on, like- America [00:21:00] and, like, where it stands on things.
[00:21:02] So she ended up doing a bunch of focus groups for 60 Minutes, uh, in the aftermath of that when I was at CBS, where she was, like, doing round tables with Americans being like, "What do you think about this?" Like, "How did this come about?" Like, "Explain Trump to me," et cetera. So, like, literally you had people who, like, you know, uh, purport to b- have the pulse of America, right?
[00:21:17] Uh, who were, like, taken aback by things. And so part of that speaks to a variety of factors, but part of that speaks to are you getting a diverse news diet? Are you learning enough about how different type of people, uh, are reacting to things- Mm-hmm ... uh, around the country and around the world.
[00:21:32] Jolene: Mm-hmm. And then are you using a toothpick to eat it to make your kids like it?
[00:21:36] I mean, that's
[00:21:37] Mosheh: the other- Yes. Well, listen That, I, I mean, now you really want to take the metaphor- I appreciate
[00:21:41] jill: the metaphor
[00:21:42] Mosheh: You want to take the metaphor further. Yeah, we, we, we just had, we just had somebody on the Modus podcast- I
[00:21:47] nicole: know,
[00:21:47] Mosheh: that's why ... how to, how to get your kids to eat the veggies- Right ... for those of you who don't remember.
[00:21:51] Oh. They'll
[00:21:51] nicole: eat it all day.
[00:21:52] Mosheh: Yeah. No, no, I just, I wanted to explain the background here- Yeah ... for anyone listening being like, "Why is she talking about toothpicks?"
[00:21:56] nicole: Yeah. I was like, "Wait, what?"
[00:21:57] jill: No, but you do- Sorry. But to your point, uh, [00:22:00] you do have to make the news digestible for people. I write the podcast. Uh, I take the first stab at the podcast anyway, and we try to...
[00:22:09] You have to write in- Very simple words. You have to write how you would talk. Uh, not that you have to spoon-feed. You have to assume... I remember my first news director when I was, uh, a reporter in Lansing, Michigan, said, "You have to assume that who's ever watching you is doing seven things at once, and you are just in the background.
[00:22:30] So you have to keep it so simple and easy for them to understand that while they're making lunch for their kids or doing whatever it is that they're doing, they could still kind of process what you're saying. Because the minute something doesn't make sense or gets a little complicated, they're gonna zone out and you've lost them, and they're not gonna come back until the next story."
[00:22:50] And I think that to your point about the toothpicks, like, when you're presenting the news, we still need to make it so that people can understand it. Simple [00:23:00] words. We try to have fun with the news. We try to throw in some references from, you know, the '90s and movies and songs. We, we try to make it so that at least for us on the podcast, that people are listening and they feel like it's just two friends kind of having a discussion about the news and they're listening in.
[00:23:17] Um, but even on the Instagram, it has to look a certain way so that people feel like, you know, our-- We, we do, um, full screens with bullet points, and it has to be clear and easy to understand, 'cause that is part of it. 'Cause it doesn't matter what the information is. If it's not in a way that people can process it, then, uh, they won't.
[00:23:36] nicole: So we did a experiment, I think it aired a couple weeks ago, where Jolene and I spent a whole week, uh, listening and watching Fox News and MSNOW, just that. Hm. And, uh, we were so assaulted. Like- ... just, just completely assaulted. Sound, like, eyes, the whole... Like, the opposite [00:24:00] basically of what you're saying, Jill, about Mo News.
[00:24:03] The, the, the music's loud. There's a lot of flashing lights. There's a lot of, like, emotion and fear and scared. And Jolene and I were like, "Oh my God, I never want to listen or watch them ever again." And the fact that so many people use one news source- Yeah ... and that's their news source. Yeah. I think one of the reasons I've just personally, why I love Mo News is that- Having done this podcast for two years now, I used to think as a lefty, like, I would listen to WNYC and NPR every morning and would think, "Oh, I'm educated.
[00:24:39] I'm... Like, I know what's going on." And now I hear it and see it with a completely different lens. I hear the bias in the language. I hear the snarkiness in the tone. And one of the things that I absolutely love about-
[00:24:53] Mosheh: The goal is to make you angry.
[00:24:54] nicole: Exactly. Yeah. And you, and you'll come back. And this, and one things that I just love about you guys is, yes, I do feel [00:25:00] like your friends, and you're friends with me, and that I get to hear you and, "What are they gonna say today?"
[00:25:05] Well,
[00:25:05] Mosheh: now we're actually friends, Nicole.
[00:25:06] nicole: Exactly. In real life. Listen, we're so psyched. In real life, yeah. We're so psyched. This is not a question. I just wanna... This is... I wanna commend you guys. We're actually probably gonna air you the day after the midterms, which is interesting. Okay. But today is October 7th, and you did a episode about that today.
[00:25:24] I've always really appreciated how you guys have handled the attack and the aftermath to this day, because there is so much bias and slant and hate, and what, like, a- and I didn't... I don't know before I've done this podcast if I would have been as aware as I am now, and I think a lot of people aren't, and it informs their way that they are in the world, and I think it's really amazing what you guys do.
[00:25:55] Like, really amazing, so thank you.
[00:25:57] Mosheh: Well, we, we appreciate it. It is, I mean, [00:26:00] especially navigating issues like that, I mean, there's a, there's a few issues where, you know, no matter what, uh, you're gonna g- you know, people will parse every word, every tone, every comma. On some of those subjects we'll, like, record and then, like, have the editor send it ba- send it back to us.
[00:26:15] We don't often do it, but on a few subjects it's like, "Can you send that back to us just so I can, like, parse every single word? Like, did I take a breath- Mm-hmm ... at a wrong place? Mm-hmm. Did I... Was I laughing at something else but then it comes up tonally?" And so, you know, those are issues that, um, are super important and, you know, I think require good perspective.
[00:26:30] And that's also where, like, I try to utilize my experience in the media, where, you know, I, I think there's a lot of people, uh, if you tend to be a believer in mainstream media, that you sort of take what they say hook, line, and sinker. You know, there's a good example, actually. I mean, I know we're airing this after midterms, but there was a, you know, like, a Trump rally earlier this week where he, uh, made a reference to, uh, let them take out LA and San Diego in reference to the Iranians, right?
[00:26:53] nicole: Yeah.
[00:26:53] Mosheh: And so you wake up with the headlines from the LA Times and The New York Times, and, you know, all the major publications being like, "Trump said to Iran, 'Take out [00:27:00] LA.'"
[00:27:00] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:01] Mosheh: I didn't actually say that. No. Y- you know, like, uh, but, uh, you know, like, first of all, having, uh, unfortunately I've had to watch, like, 20,000 hours of Donald Trump over the last 10 year- I mean, I've watched every single rally, right?
[00:27:11] It's part of my job to watch. Like, so I, I, I'm just like, "Hey, based on watching 20,000 hours of this man, let me tell you what, like, I interpret." And so the people are going after me. I'm like, "You know, listen, you can believe whatever you want. Like, my job is to, like, I'll just give you my, my perspective on this sort of thing."
[00:27:27] But that's where, like, sometimes the media's so quick to jump on certain things. Mm-hmm. Um, and it, it applies to the Middle East as well, where the majority of them, like, haven't listened to 20,000 hours of Trump, or have never traveled- Yeah ... to the Middle East. Mm-hmm. Know very little about the conflict.
[00:27:40] Mm-hmm. Uh, the decades, centuries, millennia, uh, that go into it. And so, you know, I found myself, I remember at CBS, like, sending brand-new reporters who've never been to the region, don't speak a lick of, uh, either language, don't know the history, the nuance. Uh, and you know, it's a really interesting factoid for all of you who cover foreign news coverage.
[00:27:58] Oftentimes, [00:28:00] maybe not oftentimes, sometimes the perspective you might get or the tone you might get on a, uh, various story from a reporter who's never been to such a place before, which I feel like they should disclose at the bottom of
[00:28:09] nicole: the
[00:28:11] jill: screen. First time covering this region. Yes. Like,
[00:28:14] Mosheh: Joe Smith-
[00:28:15] jill: Yes
[00:28:16] Mosheh: I've been in Israel for 16 minutes- Yeah ... uh, before talking to you live. Uh, and but let me tell you what's going on here, right? Um, time elapsed in this country. Uh, is like literally the perspective they got from, like, the border agent or the cab driver they spoke to. Right. Right?
[00:28:32] Jolene: Oh, God. Like,
[00:28:33] Mosheh: that's, for as, as a cab driver in, uh, various countries in the Middle East, you have an incredible amount of influence over the American reporters.
[00:28:39] jill: It's really true.
[00:28:40] Mosheh: Really.
[00:28:41] Jolene: I'm telling you. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Wow. Undisclosed sources say.
[00:28:45] jill: Um, but to Moshe's credit, I will say, you know, we have, it's, it's Moshe, me, a, a couple of other senior level people, and then we have a couple of younger, uh, staff members, and everyone pitches stories. And Moshe will say, [00:29:00] especially in, as it relates to the Middle East, uh, particularly when the war, uh, in Gaza was, was, like, full-blown- Mm-hmm
[00:29:08] there would be... It's in the news. It disproportionately to, to the area- Mm. To the size of the, of, of the-
[00:29:15] Mosheh: Right. There's 10 million people that live in Israel, and it gets more coverage than the next 50 countries combined.
[00:29:20] nicole: Yeah. Yes. Right?
[00:29:21] jill: And that's- Yes ... and that might even be, that might even-
[00:29:24] Mosheh: No, no, but they've done,
[00:29:24] jill: like,
[00:29:24] Mosheh: there's statistical analysis
[00:29:25] jill: you might... You know, it's, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah. And so people will pitch things just because that's every day there's at least one or two Reuters stories, every day it's in The New York Times, every day it's in, this conflict is everywhere. And so that informs us, right? And so somebody will pitch a story inevitably, and Moshe will say, "Well, would you have covered this if, if this was r- in Russia and Ukraine?"
[00:29:49] Oh. It wouldn't have even made, it wouldn't have even been on the 10th page of the newspaper because nobody would've cared. Or ex- you know, I, I say that's a little harsh, but you know what I mean. And so, like, [00:30:00] I will say to Moshe's credit, he forces everybody to kind of be better and be critical and really think about why are we covering this?
[00:30:07] Is this something that we were only covering because it's this region, or is this actually something we would cover if it was anywhere else too?
[00:30:15] Jolene: Okay, so let me dive into that a little bit because, so, like, this, this plague story. Would we... Like, how did we even find out that this 21, this 24-year-old died?
[00:30:26] 28. Right? Like- 20... Yeah, 28. Like, if we had
[00:30:29] jill: a- 28. I, I don't mean to be that far.
[00:30:30] Jolene: But if we had this, if we had a 20-something-year-old working at a lab in the middle of New Mexico, and she died of pneumonia, would, would there be a story there? Like, how do you decide what is the story? I mean, is that the story, that we found out that she died, and now we don't know...
[00:30:47] Like, we got a little bit that she died, and now is that the story, that we're not getting the information, or is it that, that we found out that she died? Is that the story?
[00:30:58] Mosheh: So there's an [00:31:00] old adage in news that, um, a dog biting man is not news, man biting dog is news, right? Okay. Like something that, like you expect a dog to bite a person.
[00:31:10] Right. You don't expect a person to bite a dog.
[00:31:12] jill: No.
[00:31:12] Mosheh: That's weird. We should look into that. Okay. Right? And so I only bring that up, uh, because, uh, are there deaths from various diseases around the world all the time? Yeah. But someone who worked in an anti-plague institute in far out part of Russia, a country that's known for creating biological weapons, and I think part of the reason we all got intrigued initially was, one, the plague.
[00:31:38] You know, the plague that killed- Yeah ... 50 million people back in Europe. Uh, you know, it turns out that, by the way, about 100 people die every year of the plague. The plague, by the way, is endemic to like the western part of the US. We usually have some plague deaths from nature, et cetera, uh, but this is human-to-human plague.
[00:31:52] But part of the issue here was where is the, uh, weird, mysterious part? Well, the Russians have locked down a bunch of hospitals somewhere. Mm-hmm. [00:32:00] There are videos emerging of people wearing white suits. Mm-hmm. We are only six years removed from COVID, so now we got pictures of people in white suits.
[00:32:08] Mm-hmm. They've locked down hospitals. The plague, that's all intriguing. They got the plague from where? The Anti Plague Institute. That's weird. They have an anti-plague institute. What exactly are they researching there? Then what happens in the first 24 hours? A bunch of people backtrack. Russian officials who initially said it was the plague said, "No, no, no, no it's not the plague, it's some mystery pneumonia."
[00:32:28] Mystery pneumonia? Well, that's a mystery I gotta solve. So now all of that is coming about, right? And that's all in the first 48 hours. So that was a bit of the intrigue, not unlike Wuhan. Irkutsk is this random place we don't know much about. We have people in white lab coats. Russia happens to be a country just like China, where God knows what's happening there.
[00:32:49] There's no free media.
[00:32:50] Jolene: Chernobyl.
[00:32:51] Mosheh: Some people are getting deleted from Telegram, and oh yeah, look at that. Historical context, right? This is the country that brought you Chernobyl, and if you've seen the HBO [00:33:00] series-
[00:33:00] Jolene: Which I have
[00:33:02] Mosheh: You know that the Russians are not known to be very transparent about things and might say the exact opposite of things.
[00:33:08] So you literally have the President of the United States, Trump asked about this on Monday, he's like, "I don't really know what's going- You know, we're trying to figure it out ourselves." The US is making demands saying, "Russia, what is happening there? We need information." That doesn't happen often. So bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
[00:33:22] You got a lot of things happening at the same time that don't typically happen. And so, um, that's a bit of why we're talking about it. Now then people immediately are like, "Oh, this is their way to lock us down for midterms. This is..." Whoa, whoa, whoa, people. It just, it's a weird thing. You know, people immediately go conspiratorial because, by the way- Yeah
[00:33:40] that's what people do these days. Yeah. They want a larger explanation. Mm-hmm. And you have people on the left being like, "Look, Trump's gonna use this to steal the election." You got people- ... on the right being like, "This is, they're trying to give us vaccines." I was like, whoa. There's, first of all, stop it.
[00:33:51] There's medication for the plague, but let's move beyond that. That's existed for a long time. But, you know, so immediately people go to a very conspiratorial place with diseases, and we know we're living in this more [00:34:00] pandemic place, and so all of that stuff combined together, mm, as a journalist, there's a lot of intriguing stuff there that we have to get to the bottom of, sort of like the hantavirus crews from a few months ago, or Ebola in Africa.
[00:34:13] You know, you got a, as a child of the '90s, you got Outbreak and these films that came out, right? And so I think that's part of it, too, is there's a whole popular culture element to it, and therein lies the story, right? Now I've given you eight reasons why this is rising to the top, and maybe an important story that's happening in Tennessee is something that we're not covering.
[00:34:30] Jolene: Well, and Nicole and I love, um, we often reference the movie Wag the Dog because- Yes ... I mean, that is, like, that's the whole, y- you know, is, is the story the story or is there something else that they're distracting you from?
[00:34:44] Mosheh: Did either of you watch the show Veep on, um, HBO? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. With Julia Louis-Dreyfus?
[00:34:49] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:50] Mosheh: The lesson from Washington, everybody- ... is the majority of Americans think Washington is House of Cards or Scandal or Wag the Dog. [00:35:00] The majority of Americans would like Washington to be West Wing.
[00:35:04] nicole: Ah.
[00:35:04] Mosheh: Let me present you with the truth. The truth is that Washington is Veep. Okay, everybody?
[00:35:11] nicole: That's frightening.
[00:35:12] Which is very scary. That is frightening.
[00:35:14] Mosheh: Like, honestly there were, like, at least six storylines about Kamala Harris that were, like, ripped from Veep. You know, like- Wow ... wait, I think I saw a Veep episode about this, right? Wow. And so-
[00:35:23] nicole: It's like a clown car.
[00:35:25] Mosheh: Yeah. Everyone's like, "It's conspiracy." You know, people are like, "About the moon landing," and all this.
[00:35:28] I was like, "Do you..." Like, the amount of... Like, you hate... Like, do you know how much competence it would take from Washington to put forth any conspiracy along these lines? Right. Like, once two people know something in Washington, it gets leaked, right? And so the whole, like, "Whoa, you know, they're hiding this from us," I was like, "No, no, no, no."
[00:35:46] They
[00:35:46] jill: can't hide
[00:35:47] Mosheh: anything. They can't hide a single thing. And so whether it's JFK or- Right ... uh, COVID or, you know, uh, you know, name your story out of Washington that's like, well, this is [00:36:00] actually the, you know, what they're hiding. Are they? Like, have you met the people in our government? No. They screw it up.
[00:36:06] nicole: Okay. Okay, wait. No, I have a question. All right. So in that regard, what is the story that we should actually be worried about right now, and what is a story that we pay way too much attention that you're like, "Let this go"?
[00:36:19] jill: I, I think that, I, I do think AI, uh, and the fact that you have all of these executives saying, you know, this could potentially be the end of humanity.
[00:36:31] I, I don't, I don't... I'm not alarmist on it just yet, but I do think that we should be taking it seriously. Okay. I think that all, I, I... It's above my pay grade, as they say, in terms of how AI actually works and how this would actually kill off humanity. But the fact that people like a Bill Gates- Mm-hmm ... Elon Musk, uh, Dario Amodei, the fact that these people who, who do know how it works are like, "This is when we need to [00:37:00] act right now- Right now.
[00:37:00] Yes ... to kind of put these safeguards in." Help us.
[00:37:02] Mosheh: Help control us.
[00:37:03] jill: Um, makes me
[00:37:05] Mosheh: feel
[00:37:06] jill: like- Not something you often hear from the industry. Yeah. Yeah. It does make me feel like we should stay on top of this. I think it's m- the technology... The one thing that is seems to be the consensus is technology is advancing a lot quicker- Yeah
[00:37:16] than anybody had expected. Right. And so that says to me, okay, let's maybe slow this thing down, see where we are. I understand the China argument, that China is, is also working on this and we, we wanna get it first. But if we're all dead- Yeah,
[00:37:33] nicole: what does it
[00:37:33] jill: matter? ... you know, does this matter? Right? So yeah, so I happen not to be totally alarmist, but I, I don't think this is happening tomorrow, but I do think that it is something that we do need to pay attention to.
[00:37:44] nicole: And Jill, Jill, what is the, what is a story that you were like, what are we talking about this for? Enough. Maybe Mo News isn't, but you hear it and you're like, "Stop giving this air."
[00:37:56] Mosheh: Go there, Jill. I'm- Uh, you got something
[00:37:58] jill: on your lips. No, I don't wanna go there- ... [00:38:00] because I feel like I'm actually gonna get like hate m- really hate mail on it.
[00:38:04] I, I do think some of the, the cases that we see- Mm-hmm ... we get a little, uh, everybody at home playing kind of like armchair detective. I think sometimes- It's a little too much. Are you talking about- And I know- ... the
[00:38:20] nicole: Cornell case or the Lindsey Clancy case
[00:38:21] jill: or- I'm actually talking about both. Like, I, and, and I, the reason I'm saying I don't wanna get hate mail on this is 'cause, like, the Cornell ca- they're different, right?
[00:38:29] Yeah. And the Cornell case, there's really a, a problem, right? Yes. If, if one in three women- There's an underlying larger issue ... on, on- Yes, yes ... on college campuses is saying, especially on Cornell are saying- Yes ... they've been victims of sexual assault, we've got a serious, serious problem here. Yes. I'm a woman.
[00:38:44] I have a daughter. Yes. This is not okay in any way. Um, if there was a cover-up in any way, it... At the same time, there is a process. The truth will come out, right? Mm. And there is a process, and now we have Sally Yates is gonna be [00:39:00] investigating, Letitia James is gonna be in charge of this. Right. There is a, there is a point where, like, the attention has been good.
[00:39:06] Uh, I would at this point, I wanna see what they uncover. Yeah. They're privy to all of the documents, to all the evidence. They're gonna be talking to the victim. They'll be talking to the alleged attackers. I wanna see the case actually play out. I, I like facts. Yeah. So, um, I, I'm, that's one story. And then even with the Lindsey Clancy, that was a story, I had friends who were texting me who were like, "Oh my God.
[00:39:29] Was it Patrick?" You know, her ex-husband. And I guess to the conspiracy theory point that Moshe was making, I tend to feel like the simplest answer is usually the right one. Mm. You know? Like, it- Yeah ... what usually appears tends to be right, and pr- and people who are privy to all of the information, if they're saying it, it's usually right.
[00:39:49] I'm not saying always, but, but usually. So I, I guess, like, the s- the cases that are a little bit more salacious, I sometimes think we could all chill out a little bit.
[00:39:59] nicole: The Lindsey [00:40:00] Clancy thing for me, and quite frankly, you guys covered a lot of it, and I didn't really-
[00:40:04] jill: Did we overdo it? Is that what you're
[00:40:06] nicole: saying?
[00:40:06] I, I thought- Maybe we did ... I thought you did. That's just my- Yeah ... personal opinion. And it was surprising to me, to be honest, because you guys don't usually do that, and I was sort of like... And it wasn't just you guys. Everyone was doing it. I'm just like, every morning like, "Really? I don't wanna hear about this anymore."
[00:40:22] Like, I just- Yeah. Not bec- and I'm quite informed these days, but I just thought clearly- This woman is not okay, and she did a horrible thing. Why is this case... Like, there's so many other things. One thing I do wanna give you kudos for, that billionaire surrogacy story. We, Jolene and I- Yeah ... love that story.
[00:40:46] We can't believe that other people don't talk about this story. Like, we stopped- What,
[00:40:49] jill: the Ch- that China
[00:40:51] Mosheh: is- Right ... that story? These Chinese billionaires just, like, having
[00:40:53] nicole: tons of American kids. The everybody having ton- tons of American kids here. Yeah. And, and the- Yeah ... and did you see in the Wall Street Journal that, that, that couple got [00:41:00] convicted for-
[00:41:00] Mosheh: We need to follow up on that.
[00:41:02] This is breaking
[00:41:02] nicole: news, Nicole.
[00:41:03] Mosheh: Breaking news. Breaking news. Yeah. You're breaking the news to us sometimes. No, but it's
[00:41:05] nicole: breaking news.
[00:41:06] Mosheh: So- I was spending too much time on the Clancy trial, and I missed
[00:41:08] jill: that. Listen here. No, but Nicole, I think that you make... I, I'm, I'm loving this feedback because- Are you? 'Cause I was like-
[00:41:14] nicole: Yes
[00:41:14] "Oh, my God. I, I so wanna be your friend."
[00:41:16] Mosheh: Yes. No. No.
[00:41:16] jill: It's,
[00:41:17] Mosheh: I, I think it's- It's amazing ... super important. I think that's where, you know, it's hard to get a gauge for things 'cause- Yeah ... the people who were, like, obsessive were so loud in our feed.
[00:41:26] nicole: Of course.
[00:41:27] Mosheh: And so getting, like, an accurate gauge of, like, where the audience is writ large on a story, and I think we could probably do a better job of sort of doing check-ins, being like, "Hey, where are you guys at on this story right now?"
[00:41:37] 'Cause the people who were into that story were so passionate about it and engaged. Right. And so the engagement on anything Clancy was so high, the immediate feedback we get as an organization is like, "Oh, I guess they need more of this. I guess we need to double down on this," you know?
[00:41:51] jill: I, I'm just gonna jump in quickly.
[00:41:52] I think the lesson for us, too, is that our podcast audience isn't necessarily the same as our [00:42:00] Instagram audience. Sure. So just because a story- Hmm. Oh, that's true ... has been doing so well on Instagram, which a lot of times, that does inform which stories we decide to cover on the podcast. Right. Um, but it may not always translate.
[00:42:13] Yeah. And with that, I will say, even in yesterday's podcast and behind the scenes, I had a Cornell story in there, and Moshe was like, "Is there a reason we're doing this again?" You know, "Is there, is there actual real information that's new- Hmm ...
[00:42:26] Mosheh: that we're moving this forward?" Right. Just 'cause there's another audio tape been released of whatever, like, do we- Right.
[00:42:29] Right. Right ... like, we've done it three days in a row. Right. Right. Like, can we take a break? Right.
[00:42:32] Jolene: Okay. So which one of you is more likely to say, "We're covering this because it's important," and which one of... s- more likely to say, "Nobody cares. We need to move on"?
[00:42:44] jill: I think Moshe... Well, I'm curious what you think, Moshe.
[00:42:47] I feel like you say no one cares- Yeah ... all the time for the stories that I put in the podcast. Really?
[00:42:52] Mosheh: Yeah. '
[00:42:52] jill: Cause I take the first stab at the podcast. Okay. So I, I get in there- Yeah, and
[00:42:56] Mosheh: I'll be like, "Yes, no." And I
[00:42:57] jill: write the podcast. "
[00:42:57] Mosheh: What are we doing with this story?" Like, "Why are [00:43:00] we even... Like, come on." Um-
[00:43:02] jill: So at f- like at 4:30, we're about to record, he'll be like, "No one cares about so and so."
[00:43:07] And I'll be like, "Okay, fine. What else I got?" Scratch it. You know, and we'll scramble- Um- ...
[00:43:11] Mosheh: and put something else together ... you know, it's, it's difficult- ... because you have to understand that as journalists, like it's literally our job to read everything and like be immersed in stuff. Yeah. And so there is a tendency for, to play the counter on Clancy or these other stories, for us to get bored with the story quicker than- Mm
[00:43:28] the public does. Ah. Because like, because I'm living it, I'm breathing it. It's like, "Oh my God, I've been doing this." But like the average person is like taking their kids to school, and has a job, and may have been sick, and they're, you know, uh, they have an issue with a pet and, you know, they're on a vacation or whatever.
[00:43:42] And so like I'm doing the podcast every day. You might not be listening every day. Mm. You might be listening once a week.
[00:43:48] jill: Right.
[00:43:48] Mosheh: So like, and then I get a note like, "Why aren't you guys covering this?" And I was like, "We've done 22 posts on that- ... on Instagram. Like, what more can you guys like..."
[00:43:56] jill: Right.
[00:43:56] Mosheh: But they're like, "Well, I, I...
[00:43:57] Well, now since I've checked in the last [00:44:00] 24 hours," right? And so it's like constantly trying to like, again, like the restaurant example or whatever. Like I've had steak on the menu all week. I've changed the menu. The special changed today. "Why don't you guys serve steak?" I had steak for the last four days, but you weren't here.
[00:44:14] You didn't come to the restaurant, uh, at Instagram or on the podcast. So it's like, you know, and so we've often talk about, you know, even in the way we present stories, there are people who listen every day. They're like, "Oh, they're like doing the like wind up of like this was the story that..." You know, like even like describing who Lindsay Clancy was or like, you know- Yeah
[00:44:32] the, the way October 7th started or like, you know, FYI, like a state of play in midterm. You know, sometimes I feel like I've feel like I've told this story now four times- Mm-hmm ... 'cause I have. But then I sort of have to assume that I'm trying to hit the people who listen every day, but I'm also trying to get the people and give them context and background who might not have tuned in for a week.
[00:44:50] jill: One of the other things, so in, in terms of when you were asking like who's the one who picks a story and who says, "No one cares." So the thing is, is [00:45:00] Moshe has in, in his favor is that he's the boss. It's Mo- it's called Mo's. Okay? It's, it's, it's, it's his company. I have in my favor that I am actually our target audience for the most part, because we tend to skew more heavily female.
[00:45:18] I'm a mom. It... I tend to be what our audience is for the most part. So if there's a story... Look, everyone comes in, we say this, everyone has their own perspective, not just political. They... You know, are you a mom? Are you a dad? Or do you have kids? Are you single? How old are... Everyone has their own experiences that they bring in.
[00:45:37] And for me, I could say actually- All the parents that are gonna be listening to this podcast are driving massive SUVs. So everybody cares about- Mm ... you know, a lot of our people live in cities and maybe don't have cars. So, you know, everyone brings their own perspective
[00:45:51] Mosheh: and- Right, like I try to remind all the Gen Z kids in our office, like, "You know, you haven't filled up a gas tank in a year."
[00:45:57] nicole: Right.
[00:45:57] jill: Right. But
[00:45:58] Mosheh: most Americans have. [00:46:00] That's right. So this is why this is, you know, uh, this resonates more.
[00:46:03] Jolene: Well, but then I'm wondering why there's not more Taylor Swift stories. I mean, Jill, I mean, that's your
[00:46:09] Mosheh: tribe. Oh, actually Jill, honestly, she's like, she, she selects the Swiftie stories. I've never rejected a Taylor Swift story in our history.
[00:46:15] I, I
[00:46:15] jill: feel like you haven't, in fairness- No ... you haven't. I think I maybe- Never ... I feel like I was pushing Taylor Swift so... I, you know what? We did, when Taylor Swift got engaged, I feel like we did, like, the whole half of the podcast about it. We did. And it f- and I had a friend who messaged me, and he was like, "Really?
[00:46:33] 25 minutes- ... on Taylor Swift's engagement?" And I was like, "Yeah, really."
[00:46:38] Jolene: Yeah. Yeah. You
[00:46:39] jill: know what? Yeah. She's, uh, yes, they're the most famous people. We could use a little light in
[00:46:43] Mosheh: this world. Even before the Taylor Swift, she had the movie theater release, the Eras Tour accomplishments. Like, I feel like we've done a good...
[00:46:50] Like, there are very few Taylor Swift stories missing from our podcasts, but- Thank you, Jill ... maybe we do have to monitor time
[00:46:58] jill: we spend on that, you know? There's always more, but yes. Yeah. I, I try to, I try to censor a
[00:46:59] Mosheh: little [00:47:00] bit of that. The Beyonce people feel neglected versus Taylor
[00:47:01] Jolene: Swift. Neglected.
[00:47:02] There's nobody in Beyonce's corner in these production meetings.
[00:47:06] Mosheh: It's true. We do, we, we do need a, a bigger Beyonce advocate probably within the editorial team.
[00:47:11] Jolene: Do you, though?
[00:47:13] jill: Yes. I'm, I'm okay with the other stuff. Yes. I love Beyoncé, but...
[00:47:16] Jolene: Okay, so w- give us the biggest editorial argument, like, in these production meetings that w- we, as the listener, never knew happened.
[00:47:24] Have never
[00:47:25] nicole: known.
[00:47:26] jill: I, I think Moshe-- Okay, I, I know Moshe's gripes with me, that I could air here. But they're not necessarily editorial. I tend to not... I, I get the date wrong all the time. Which is actually starting to drive Moshe nuts. He'll be like, "I need to re-record the top of the podcast- ... 'cause you wrote that it's October 5th, and it's October 6th."
[00:47:45] But
[00:47:45] nicole: you do record the day before, right?
[00:47:48] jill: And you wrote all the books. Yes. So- So that's where it comes from. Yeah. But we've been doing it for over three years. I know. So I probably should have figured that out. So that's a, that's a minor one, but I know that drives him a little bit nuts.
[00:47:59] Mosheh: [00:48:00] I, I think we, you know, like, I'm very proud of the team that we have in place now, uh, in terms of their ability to remove themselves and their opinions, uh, from a story.
[00:48:12] Mm-hmm. That hasn't always been true. Uh, some people very much wore their politics on their sleeve, and I think that led to, um, at least a couple years ago, some real, you know, discussions/fights, uh, about how to cover particularly American politics- Mm ... uh, but also the war in the Middle East. You know, I think it's one of those challenges, frankly, that I noticed, just to sort of take you outside of my news for a second, at the CBS newsroom, and frankly it's an issue if you talk to news executives at major organizations across the country.
[00:48:41] Generationally, we've seen younger people come in who aren't as into the idea that you leave your politics at the door and we have no agenda here.
[00:48:54] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:48:55] Mosheh: That, uh, you tend... I mean, look, let's be frank here. Jolene, I'm probably gonna speak [00:49:00] your language here. Yes. The vast majority of journalists are liberal.
[00:49:02] Jolene: Yes.
[00:49:03] Mosheh: Like, a lot of them. Like, a lot of them. Uh, it tends to be a profession, uh, that, uh, attracts people who wanna make a change in the world, right? Um, that, you know, journalism is a place where you can make change. You can speak truth to power. You can represent the underdog. That tends to be a profession that attracts people from more of the left side of the political spectrum, who wanna, you know, be activists.
[00:49:29] Now, certainly there's activists on the right, but, uh, most of these news organizations are located in Washington and New York City. Most of them, the journalism salaries these days, like you might begin making 35 grand a year-
[00:49:39] jill: Oh,
[00:49:40] Mosheh: wow ... in New York City. Mm-hmm. Godspeed to you- Wow ... you know, finding a place- Godspeed
[00:49:43] uh, over your head. Mm-hmm. And so what does that mean? Well, you might have to come from a privileged background. Mm-hmm. There's also a lot of people who went to private universities, so there's a whole recruiting. Mm-hmm. I mean, like, I remember getting my first internship at ABC News and it was like I was the only non Ivy League person on this show team.
[00:49:57] It was Yale, Yale, Yale, Harvard- Mm ... Harvard, Harvard. [00:50:00] Okay. Okay? Mm-hmm. There's a certain political bent, uh, when you come from those universities. And so, you know, you start to see all of that, you know, sort of add up over time. And so it ha- so happens that, you know, it tends to, you know, all these organizations have a more liberal bent.
[00:50:13] Uh, and now generationally speaking, we got a Gen Z crew that's coming. And you can talk to professors at journalism schools across the country who are like, "Your job is to tell the truth." And they're like, "My job is to tell my truth. My job is to..." You know, like... And so you see that more and more. And so I noticed in my final few years at CBS, I'm in editorial meetings and, you know, I'm getting like, you know, sorta like, you know, pitched.
[00:50:37] And it's an editorial meeting. "Yes, no, no, work on that. That's boring. Boring. We did that last week." You know, like, I'm running the evening news. I got 100 people from around the world on a conference call. "London, what do you got? Beijing, what do you got? Miami, what do you got? Chicago, what do you got? No, no, boring.
[00:50:51] Come on, you know better than that." We're like, "We don't have time." I don't have time to, like, be like, "Well, thank you for the pitch. That's something we can consider at some..." No. Like, that's not the way newsrooms work, okay? [00:51:00] At least they did. Now I got Gen Z in the newsroom, and they're like, "Oh." And then now I'm hearing from HR being like, "You know, we got some complaint."
[00:51:06] I was like, "Wait, the way we've talked for 20 years is not acceptable?" And maybe in some ways, fine. You know, like sure. But in some ways they're like, "Well, you know, they're accusing you of having an anti-this bias or an anti-that bias." I was like, "I have an anti-, you know, boring story bias." Waste my time bias.
[00:51:20] Yes. I have an anti waste my time
[00:51:21] Jolene: bias. Yes.
[00:51:23] Mosheh: Also, kiddo from Harvard who's 23 in Manhattan, do you know who our average viewer is at CBS? These are people in El Paso, and, um- Hmm ... these are people who live in Omaha. You know, our biggest market at, at the CBS Evening News, the top two markets, Nashville and Minneapolis, not New York and LA.
[00:51:42] Mm-hmm. And so- Hmm ... what are you doing for that audience, average age 68? What story do you think they care about today? Do you think they care about that activist story that you're watching on Twitter right now?
[00:51:51] jill: Ah.
[00:51:51] Mosheh: And so we're trying to have a real conversation because at the end of the day, we're also a business, right?
[00:51:55] What stories are we covering that the audience actually wants to watch? I'm not trying to shove stuff down their throat. [00:52:00] Yeah. And so, you know, I think that... I forgot what the original question was 'cause I'm rambling here. But my point is you're seeing, uh, oh, it was about, uh, debates within the newsroom.
[00:52:09] Yeah. And so you certainly saw people, you know, like I, I've encountered
[00:52:11] nicole: people who are like- But debates within your news, in your newsroom. Do you have- I mean, like,
[00:52:15] Mosheh: look, it's, it's about emphasis, I think. Like, I'm bored with a story. You're not bored with a story. Right, right. Or like that's an angle that you're passionate about that I'm just, like, not that passionate about.
[00:52:24] You know, try to, at the end of the day, it's sort of a benevolent dictatorship here at Mo News. Right, right,
[00:52:29] nicole: right.
[00:52:30] Mosheh: I joke. But, uh- Sort of. Though would that be a fair way to describe it?
[00:52:32] jill: Yeah, but you're, you're open to, you're open to
[00:52:34] Mosheh: feedback. I'm, yeah, I'm completely
[00:52:35] jill: open. I'll push back on
[00:52:36] Mosheh: you on the podcast.
[00:52:36] There are often times where I'm like, "I'm outvoted. Go with it, guys." Yeah, yeah. Like, clearly I just don't understand- Yeah, yeah ... why you're passionate about it. Yeah. You know?
[00:52:42] nicole: This is a total non-sequitur, but when you're talking about these Gen Z'ers saying, like, "Basically you've hurt my feelings," and, and blahdy, blahdy, blah, the segment that you did about bringing the iced coffee to the interview- Oh my gosh.
[00:52:54] I can't stop thinking about it. I mean- And even there was a moment of like, oh, [00:53:00] I guess if they brought their co- uh, brought a coffee for the person. Right. But this sort of, this sort of like I can't be bothered. I'm going into my, you know, there's no sense of, like, decorum or f-
[00:53:11] Mosheh: You're, like, sipping. Oh my God.
[00:53:12] I'm just, like, imagining, like, the ice shaking. Yes. You know, ice shaking. Ugh. For this, like, 22-year-old- Yeah ... who's like, "Tell me what this job's gonna do for me."
[00:53:19] nicole: Exactly. Oh
[00:53:20] Jolene: my God. "
[00:53:21] nicole: And then I'll tell you if you've hurt my feelings." "And I'll go to HR."
[00:53:25] Mosheh: Like, that's the thing is, like, I went to HR like- I think that we have-
[00:53:26] "You're anti this." I'm like, "I'm anti crappy story." Okay? Right, right, right. Like, that's what I'm anti.
[00:53:32] jill: But to Moshe's point, we have, um, like our, we hire people, I think, who wouldn't, who don't fit that description. Right,
[00:53:41] Jolene: right, right. The- I'm sure you
[00:53:42] jill: do ... the Gen Z'ers that we bring on- Yeah. Yes ... are more like when we were- Yeah, yeah
[00:53:47] coming through. They
[00:53:48] Mosheh: have- Yeah ... they have millennial vibes.
[00:53:55] Jolene: We've got to hear your good for the soul. This is the part of the, of the podcast where we want to [00:54:00] hear your good for the soul, something that our listeners need to either read or watch or listen to that, um- Or do ... or do. Yes. Do you have an assignment for us?
[00:54:10] jill: It is something that I am doing current- not At this moment in time.
[00:54:15] But there is currently a puzzle on my kitchen table. So I am a big puzzler. Oh. And my family, we love a good jigsaw puzzle, and I think that it is great for the soul. There's no phones. Uh, we do it as a family. Sometimes I... My husband and my kids, I pick a puzzle and they're like, "No- no way, you're on your own."
[00:54:35] And I will even do it on my own, and occasionally my husband will come in. I love a good puzzle. I, it, I feel like it's good for your brain. Mm-hmm. And it's also somewhat mindless. So- Hmm ... I love reading too, but unlike reading, like, you could kind of do a puzzle while listening to a podcast. Hmm. Or, uh, I can keep an eye on my kids while I'm doing a puzzle.
[00:54:54] So I, I r- highly recommend, get a good puzzle, um, and finishing a puzzle, there is nothing [00:55:00] better. Fin- like- Hmm ... putting that piece in- Yeah ... figuring out a section is just good for the soul. Love
[00:55:05] Jolene: that. Moshe?
[00:55:07] Mosheh: This is advice I give to Gen Z-ers in the newsroom.
[00:55:09] Jolene: Oh.
[00:55:10] Mosheh: Pick up the phone.
[00:55:11] Jolene: Yes.
[00:55:12] Mosheh: Ah.
[00:55:13] Jolene: Yes.
[00:55:13] Mosheh: Um, pick up the phone.
[00:55:15] I think... And by the way, this applies to everything, right? This applies to, like, in a world where we text so much, including friends, including colleagues, including Jill. Like, I think Jill and I, like, sometimes we're in a fight because we texted and, like, I was short and she was short, but if, like, we just picked up the phone, we wouldn't be in a fight.
[00:55:31] And so- I'm
[00:55:31] jill: like, "You said that was the lead." He's like, "Oh, wait." The whole read through, he's like, "Oh, I did. But I didn't mean that." Well,
[00:55:36] Mosheh: we get snarky, we get short, we're tired. Right. We're parents. Right. We got stuff going on in our lives and if just we picked up the phone, we probably would've prevented whatever.
[00:55:43] But the larger point is that, like, you know, I often think about this and, like, I... You know, unfortunately, uh, my commute is on the subway in New York City. Hmm. So it's not a phone-friendly commute. Mm-mm. But to the extent that, like, I haven't talked to that friend in a year- Hmm ... or six months. And then sometimes you're like, "Oh my God, it's been so long, I just, I gotta find more time for that [00:56:00] person," so you kick it even further.
[00:56:01] Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it's like, whether it's your parents or your friends or, you know, a, a colleague, it's pick up the phone and have a conversation, right? What can... You know, if you have 5 minutes or 10 minutes, it's checking in. Um, I think, uh, is, is so, so important, and I think b- regardless of it, whether it's a professional or personal context.
[00:56:20] Jolene: That is so nice. I love that. I will t- I love that ... I will tell you that our 20... Again, referring back to Bobby, our 25-year-old was talking to a guy, and he s- texted her and s- and, and when I say talking to, you know, that's the phase of the relationship that they are in. And, um- ... and he texted her and said, "Can I call you tonight?"
[00:56:38] And she's like, "Okay, he's weird. Nope, not gonna- ... not gonna talk to him anymore." And I go, "What? You can't..." No. "Because he wants to talk on the phone," and she's like, "Why can't we text?" Like why can't we- Oh, no ... like, like, "Text me and say, 'Let's go on a date.' Like, don't call me. I mean, I don't wanna... Like, I wanna talk to you in person, but don't call me on the phone.
[00:56:55] That's weird." And I go, "Oh my gosh."
[00:56:58] nicole: No, that's a winner. Keep
[00:56:59] Jolene: [00:57:00] that person I
[00:57:00] nicole: know, right? That's exactly
[00:57:01] Jolene: it. That's a winner. Yes.
[00:57:02] nicole: That's a winner.
[00:57:03] Jolene: Absolutely.
[00:57:04] nicole: That's great.
[00:57:04] Mosheh: There's a lot of people I hear, by the way, that they've given their, um, their kids now, like, dummy phones, right? Like, f- uh, flip phones from back in the day.
[00:57:10] Yes. And, like, they're actually, like, calling their friends. I was hearing this. Like, their 11-year-old, like, is talking to his, like, girlfriend in fifth grade or whatever, and, like, they talk on the phone all the time because they... First of all, if you recall, T9 texting is super annoying. Remember T9 texting?
[00:57:23] Oh my gosh, yes. And so, uh, they have found that, like, what we found 20 years ago, which is, like, "You know what's mu- easier? Just pick up the phone." Yeah,
[00:57:31] nicole: pick up the phone.
[00:57:31] Mosheh: So I- I have hope for Alpha generation.
[00:57:33] nicole: Me too. It's more fun, too. It's just more fun. Do you wanna just let our listeners and viewers know how to find you?
[00:57:40] All the th- 'cause you do so much. And can you just tell everybody all the things?
[00:57:44] Mosheh: Uh, we do have a website, by the way, mo.news, MO.news, uh, that you can serve as your home for all of it. But we do have a daily morning podcast out at 4:30 AM Eastern Time every morning, uh, where we, you know, break down about seven to 10 [00:58:00] of the biggest or slash most interesting stories of the day that may or may not be related to Taylor Swift, uh, and other news.
[00:58:06] We have a weekend podcast, too, so we typically put out about six podcasts a week. Uh, if you, uh, prefer reading your news, every afternoon we have a Mo News Substack- Mm-hmm ... that comes out, uh, every late afternoon, evening, where we break down, uh, a major headline of the day and give you sort of 20 to 25 other stories, uh, listed that you might, uh, or should be following.
[00:58:25] Uh, if you are, uh, ready to be able to kinda handle news all day long, all the time- ... and can control yourself on Instagram, we have a 24/7 Instagram feed. Mm. The Mo News Instagram feed. You can find us there. Uh, if you're looking for a s- slightly leaner version of that, you can check out the Mo News YouTube page where you get our videos along with our podcasts.
[00:58:46] Uh, and then beyond that, we are on the other socials, the Facebooks, the TikToks, uh, of the world as well with our videos. But so at its core, you can begin our day, begin your day with the podcast, you can follow the news all day long on [00:59:00] Instagram, you can sorta end your day with the newsletter. And then by the way, if you c- still can't get enough, you can join Mo News Premium-
[00:59:07] for paid subscribers, where we do weekend news coverage, where I do an extra edition, seventh edition of the podcast every week called the Ask Mo Anything podcast, where I answer your questions. Uh, that is also where you can connect with thousands of other premium members on Slack. Uh, we do monthly workshops.
[00:59:21] I just did one, uh, breaking down the national debt. How did we get into $40 trillion of debt? Oh, man. Mm-hmm. And answered a bunch of your questions on that. We got one coming up. Uh, we'll do a New Year's resolution one, finding yourself, uh, sort of meditation. We'll d- be doing one on AI coming up soon. I got a midterm election one coming up.
[00:59:38] Mm-hmm. So, uh,
[00:59:39] Jolene: I think that covers most of it. How many hours of sleep do you get,
[00:59:41] nicole: Rosh- Yeah, that was my question,
[00:59:42] Jolene: too ... and Jill, both of you? I mean, I know you got a newborn, Rosh, but- And you've got little
[00:59:45] nicole: kids.
[00:59:46] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:59:47] Mosheh: My newborn is a saint. She slept through- Oh ... the night at nine and a half weeks. People, I, I, my, my wife posted about it, like we were talking about this, uh, n- uh, camera that we use, and, uh, she
[00:59:59] Jolene: mentioned [01:00:00] it- Oh, I saw that
[01:00:00] 'cause she, and then they're like- For your Amazon. You were putting it on your- She slept, yeah, yeah ... yeah, the good deals.
[01:00:02] Mosheh: Yeah. Yeah, for Amazon Prime. And, uh, my wife- ... wrote in the caption, and I reposted it, like, "She slept 13 hours- Right ... at 11 weeks." And a bunch of people wrote me like, "This is rage bait." "What the hell?"
[01:00:11] jill: It is rage
[01:00:11] Mosheh: bait. I don't, I don't believe that at all. I'm like, my second child, she knows her place. Uh, first, uh, child has main character energy. Yes. Mm-hmm. Second child so far knows-
[01:00:23] Jolene: Nope. Chill ...
[01:00:24] Mosheh: she's not gonna compete with that. Chill.
[01:00:24] jill: Don't get too comfortable- Mm-hmm ... 'cause my second was sleeping through the night also pretty early, and then is in a, has been in- It stopped
[01:00:32] a sleep regression for the past year, literally. Ugh. He's four years old. Oh.
[01:00:39] Jolene: Okay. Here we go. Would you rather? Moshe and Jill All right ... would you rather accidentally send your entire Google search history to all your listeners, or accidentally leave your microphone on for 24 hours?
[01:00:56] Mosheh: I'm gonna go with the microphone. I, uh, the whole Google, I mean, G- I've been searching [01:01:00] Google for 25 years.
[01:01:01] I can't even remember half the stuff- ... I search there. Plus, as we know, many people use Google as Dr. Google. Like, I don't think I just wanna share everything- Oh ... with everybody ...
[01:01:09] Jolene: yep, yep, yep. Okay
[01:01:10] Mosheh: What is this rash on my... You know, anyway Yeah. Yep. Um, yeah, no- Fair ... 24 hours, I feel like damage would be much less than the, the full Google search history On the mic.
[01:01:19] Jolene: Jill?
[01:01:19] jill: I'm gonna go with Google search. Yeah,
[01:01:21] Jolene: I would
[01:01:21] jill: too. Because the opposite is I could blame anything on I was researching a story. Oh, great point. Oh, that's
[01:01:29] Mosheh: good. Um,
[01:01:29] jill: the, what do you mean? What's... I mean, pick a topic. I, I actually, my Google history is frightening because of all- In, in a real way, 'cause I actually am- Right.
[01:01:39] Right ... researching stories. Yeah. So my Google search is psychotic.
[01:01:43] Mosheh: Right. And that's what she told the FBI- No, I mean, like, no, it's like- ... when it's like- Yeah ... I w- I was doing a story on the, you know, how to build a biological weapon. Best way to kill my husband I wasn't trying to build a biological weapon.
[01:01:51] Right. Right. Yeah.
[01:01:52] nicole: Yeah.
[01:01:52] Jolene: Yes. Okay. All right.
[01:01:54] nicole: Okay, that's good. And you don't wanna, yeah, you don't wanna hear any, everyone's business for 24 hours. Who knows what would [01:02:00] happen.
[01:02:00] Jolene: Ah. Exactly. Right. Okay. All right. Do you have one for us?
[01:02:04] Mosheh: So this came from an Instagram post I saw, uh, a couple weeks ago that, like, is very profound.
[01:02:09] Okay? And they asked, like, a bunch of these, like, would you rathers. And one was would you rather know the exact date you will die- Mm ... or would you rather know what happens after you die? One gives you, I know I have this many years left on this earth to this exact day. One gives you an understanding of what happens after.
[01:02:34] Jolene: Okay. I, I would rather know the day. Like, 'cause then I, I, there's a lot of decisions that I could make to prepare for everyone after I leave. And then after I leave, do I care?
[01:02:51] nicole: I'm the opposite, as usual. Oh, wow. Um, I would be fascinated about what happens after, 'cause I'm not gonna get to be there. [01:03:00] So when you die, you don't... Like, it would be cool to know, right? We all die, and then what happens after? I don't wanna know when I'm gonna die. I think I'd be way too anxious and preoccupied.
[01:03:12] It's hard enough staying in the moment, and if I knew that, forget it. I'd be in trouble. Yeah, but
[01:03:17] Jolene: wouldn't you have fun? Like, if you knew you were gonna die when you were 98- No ... wouldn't you be like, "Oh my God, I have got some living to do." Like, "Let's go. All is fair." No, but what if I found out
[01:03:26] jill: that it was
[01:03:26] nicole: like- Right, tomorrow
[01:03:28] jill: you know, next week or something?
[01:03:29] Jolene: Yeah, then you better get your stuff together.
[01:03:32] nicole: I mean, is that the question, Moshe, that you're asking? Like what- Yeah ... happens, like, in the world after?
[01:03:37] Mosheh: Right. Like, you know while you're here on Earth, like, what happens next. Yeah. Like, what happens to your soul? What, like-
[01:03:42] nicole: Right
[01:03:43] Mosheh: like, you know, the, the, that secret that, like, w- none of us know- That would be amazing to know ... until we
[01:03:47] nicole: die,
[01:03:48] Mosheh: right? I
[01:03:48] nicole: think.
[01:03:49] Jolene: Well, I mean, being the Christian in the group-
[01:03:52] Mosheh: Think about the interviews
[01:03:52] Jolene: you'd be doing with CNN already ... I kind of think I already know what's gonna happen.
[01:03:56] nicole: Wait, what are you saying, Jo?
[01:03:57] Jolene: I said being the Christian in the group- ... I [01:04:00] kinda know what's gonna happen to me. Oh, Lord. I mean-
[01:04:02] nicole: Uh-huh.
[01:04:03] Jolene: So- Oh, Lord indeed. ... you know what I mean. Exactly. Mm-hmm.
[01:04:07] Mosheh: Yeah, Jolene already knows that answer- ... so she only had, like, one option with that.
[01:04:10] nicole: Dude. Dude.
[01:04:12] Jolene: All right, Jill? That would be
[01:04:13] nicole: cool.
[01:04:13] jill: All right. Well, I'm gonna stay on brand for, for me and Mosh, which is that he does a lot of the substance, and I-
[01:04:20] go a little bit lighter- ... and try to provide some levity. Uh, so in that case, I'm gonna go with a little bit of a lighter question. Okay. Taylor Swift would you rather. Would you rather be invited to Taylor and Travis's one-year anniversary
[01:04:36] party-
[01:04:37] Okay ... or would you rather front row and backstage pass to her next concert?
[01:04:44] Jolene: Party, 100%. I wanna sit there in, in their element and be with their people and, and see what they're drinking. I don't want the performative part. The schmooze. Yeah. I want the, I, I want the real Taylor and Travis.
[01:04:59] nicole: [01:05:00] Oh, I want both. I haven't gotten to see her in concert yet. It seems like an impossible ticket, and backstage- Yeah
[01:05:09] which means you could party with her. Mm. You could party with her in a smaller party.
[01:05:16] Jolene: Perhaps.
[01:05:18] nicole: Listen, I'm a performer. I'm going with the performer. I wanna see, I wanna see. Oh, my God. I wanna go to the show. You
[01:05:21] Mosheh: guys really, like, make this, like, the opposite thing, like, we're, on every level. It's not just politics.
[01:05:27] No. It's, like,
[01:05:28] nicole: it's all your
[01:05:29] Mosheh: questions, too. It's pretty
[01:05:29] nicole: much every level, uh-huh.
[01:05:30] Jolene: That is
[01:05:31] nicole: very true. Every once in a while we, we are on the same page, but very rarely. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:05:35] Jolene: Mosh and Jill- My God ... thank you so much. This was so fun for us to get to actually talk to you in real life and, um, not just see you in my bathroom, but, uh, in the mornings, but to really get to talk to you in-
[01:05:46] in the afternoon. So, um, thank you so much for your time. We love what you guys do. We so appreciate your work, and, um, we're so glad that you spent a little time with us.
[01:05:56] nicole: Yes, thank you. This was a lot of fun.
[01:05:57] jill: Thank you. This was great. I had, uh, a [01:06:00] ton of fun.
[01:06:00] nicole: Oh, I'm so glad. Everybody, like, subscribe, thumbs up, share with a friend.
[01:06:06] Share Mo News. It will change your life. Seriously- Yeah ... it will change your life. Jolene doesn't listen to Fox anymore. She listens to Mosh and J- and Jill. That's a life changed
[01:06:17] Mosheh: right there. I, I still watch Fox. There. You don't have to, Jolene.
[01:06:19] Jolene: Okay, great. I'll just depend on you. There you go. If you could just text me.
[01:06:22] There you go. Yeah, if you just let me know when I'm- Let's go,
[01:06:25] Mosheh: give you a daily summary,
[01:06:26] Jolene: yeah. Perfect. That's all I
[01:06:27] Mosheh: need. All right.
[01:06:28] nicole: Thank
[01:06:28] Jolene: you guys so much.
[01:06:29] nicole: Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Bye,
[01:06:30] Jolene: guys. Bye.
[01:06:33] nicole: We've Got to Talk is produced across the world by the wildly talented, creative, and hilarious team at Bamby Media.
[01:06:40] Our theme song is Jump Jive Swing by Space Train Unlimited. Thank you so much for listening, and join us every week for another episode of We've Got to Talk.
