Trump Gets Hostages Home: The Middle East Peace Deal We Weren't Expecting
President Trump did something remarkable in the Middle East. I (Nicole) can barely believe I'm typing this, but I want to give credit where credit is due - he got hostages home and negotiated a ceasefire in a two year conflict. Whether you love Trump or hate him, what happened this week deserves acknowledgment. And that's exactly what we're talking about today.
We're not declaring Trump a hero or pretending this solves the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We're also not ignoring what he accomplished because we disagree with his politics. We're doing what we should all do more often: recognizing when someone does something significant, even if we didn't think they could.
Jolene's perspective is straightforward: Trump is a deal-maker, and he proved it. He brought multiple countries to the table, negotiated the first phase of a peace plan, and got hostages released. In a region where peace feels like a fantasy, that's huge. And she's not alone in that assessment - Bill and Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama all publicly acknowledged the significance of what Trump pulled off. When former presidents and leaders from the opposing party give you credit, you've done something noteworthy.
My (Nicole's) honest reaction was that Trump was willing to talk to people others had written off, willing to approach the problem without being constrained by decades of failed diplomatic precedent. Sometimes that outsider perspective, that willingness to ignore "how things are done," actually opens doors that traditional diplomacy couldn't budge.
But - and this is a significant but - I'm skeptical about what comes next. Trump is a headline guy. He loves the big announcement, the dramatic moment, the photo op. The Trump Peace Plan is a 20-point process, and we just finished phase one. Is he committed to the long, grinding work of actually building lasting peace? Or is he already moving on to the next big thing that will dominate the news cycle?
Jolene and I both understand that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict isn't a problem you solve with Western logic or a clever business deal. This is generational trauma. This is centuries of history, competing religious claims, and legitimate grievances on both sides. The land itself is soaked in blood and meaning. Hamas has its agenda, Israel has its security concerns, and the surrounding nations are all playing their own games. Meanwhile, Palestinians and Israelis, those regular people just trying to live their lives, are caught in the middle.
The hostages coming home is genuinely good news. Those families got their loved ones back. That matters, and it shouldn't be minimized. But violence resumed almost immediately after the ceasefire began. Both sides claim the other broke the agreement. The blame game is already in full swing, and we're back to the familiar cycle of accusation and counter-accusation.
What's particularly frustrating is watching how this conflict gets weaponized in American politics. We're seeing a rise in antisemitism on college campuses. We're seeing Palestinian suffering used as a cudgel in culture war arguments. We're seeing Qatar and other outside actors playing both sides, using the conflict to advance their own interests.
So what's Trump's real motivation here? Is he genuinely anti-war, or is he just desperate to be seen as the best? Jolene thinks he wants to make history, to be remembered as the president who solved the unsolvable. I suspect he's after the Nobel Peace Prize, or at least the bragging rights that come with it. Maybe it's both. Maybe his ego and his genuine desire to achieve something significant are aligned in this case.
What matters right now is that he did what many thought was impossible. He got parties to the table who weren't talking. He created enough momentum to get a ceasefire and hostage releases. Whether that momentum continues depends on follow-through from everyone involved - Trump, Israel, Hamas, the surrounding nations, and international partners.
The Trump Peace Plan, as ambitious as it is, exists in a fragile moment. The details that will actually determine whether this leads to lasting peace - who governs Gaza, how aid gets distributed, how security is maintained, and whether both sides can actually trust each other, are still being negotiated. And those details are where everything falls apart, because they require compromise from people who've been fighting for decades.
We're not here to declare Trump a savior or condemn him for trying. We're here to acknowledge that something significant happened, it deserves recognition, and we should still ask hard questions about what comes next. You can give someone credit for an accomplishment while remaining skeptical about their ability to follow through. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
What we're really asking for is nuance. Give credit where is due. Acknowledge progress even when it's imperfect. But don't let that acknowledgment blind you to the ongoing suffering, the complexity of the situation, or the very real possibility that this ceasefire could collapse at any moment.
Every step toward peace matters, even if it's small, even if it's imperfect, even if it comes from someone you didn't expect. The hostages are home. People who were separated from their families are together again. That's real. That's worth celebrating. And that's also just the beginning of a much longer, messier process that will require sustained effort from everyone involved.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
BBC News Article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckgr71z0jp4o
Tangle News:
Straight Arrow News:
Ezra Klein Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000732275644
The Wall Street Journal Article: https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/qatar-facility-at-u-s-air-force-base-in-idaho-sparks-controversy-8c9f8b4e?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
Good for the Soul:
https://youtu.be/RP8Oxe6OxJc?si=z1V_YWskF1XIL9vH
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[00:00:00] Nicole: She's conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say that's exactly what French should be talking about. join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud. Hello, Joe Lane.
[00:00:21] Jolene: Hello? Nicole.
[00:00:24] Jolene: Guys, before we start our episode, we have some housekeeping to do. first things first, it's been brought to our attention that those of you that watch us on the YouTube, please do us a favor and subscribe on that subscribe button below. Um, and give us a thumbs up.
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[00:00:57] Jolene: the second thing that we wanna do with [00:01:00] housekeepingis that, um, our incredible media company, and Brianna, our producer, it is time y'all, it is time to ask if any of you are interested in being a micro sponsor.
[00:01:15] Jolene: if you are a business owner or you have, access to, Somebody in your, within your organization that does marketing and you feel like this is something that you would like to be a part of, we would love to have you, be a sponsor for us. so if you're interested, please go to our website and contact us and we will give you all the dets.
[00:01:35] Nicole: Yes, and our website is www. We've got to talk.com. Go to the contact page give us an email. Shout out and we will write you right back. And thank you.
[00:01:48] Jolene: this was something that I wanted to talk about. It. It's funny because I think Nicole and I, as we brainstorm about the current topics and hot topics and things that are happening, we both throw out ideas [00:02:00] and, this was something that we had decided. talking about the peace deal in the Israeli Gaza war.
[00:02:07] Jolene: the peace negotiate negotiations and the hostage release was something that we needed to talk about. and there's, I think, a lot to unpack in here. So I don't know how, how this is going to unfold because being the conservative, I see this as a win for Trump and a win for the United States.
[00:02:26] Jolene: I was super pleased that a lot of people. Came out and gave Trump, the credit that he deserved, with negotiating this agreement and all of the countries that were involved in making this happen. It just showed, I think, real progress towards peace in the Middle East.
[00:02:43] Jolene: And is it perfect and is it done? Absolutely not. I'm sure that's something that we'll talk about, but I think as an initial, plan and something that at least got people to the table to be able to, get the hostages, that still alive released [00:03:00] was huge. and I was loved, I loved to see Bill Clinton and Obama, and Hillary Clinton.
[00:03:06] Jolene: come out and make statements saying, that this was a great thing for the United States and thank you Trump for, for facilitating it. what are your thoughts?
[00:03:17] Nicole: I guess before we get into my thoughts, what have you been, I know you've been at trade shows and you've been really busy, but in terms of, the right news media, like Fox and stuff, tell me what they've been, how they've been reporting it to you in the last week or so.
[00:03:35] Jolene: you're right, I have not watched a lot of news in the last week, so, I've read The Tangle, um, daily, I've, I've been able to read that. I've gotten a little bit from Straight Arrow News, that we've talked about before. I've not been on Twitter, I've not been on, I've not watched Fox News, so that's probably the extent of some Instagram I get reels from on Instagram.
[00:03:55] Jolene: that is the extent to which I've heard anything. So,
[00:03:59] Nicole: when the hostages [00:04:00] were released, did you watch any Fox News to see how they,
[00:04:03] Jolene: yes, I do remember seeing that. But I think I saw a lot of stuff on reels, of the, reunification with their families and just the emotional Holy Kali. I mean, that was, could you imagine, could you imagine your, there was a gentleman who's, who had one child who was I think six months old when he was taken two years ago.
[00:04:25] Jolene: I mean, to see that his, now he's got a, a two and a half year old. I can't even imagine, the joy and, that feeling of reuniting with your family is just. Unbelievable. and I'm sure then the heartache for those who know that their family member is not coming home and some of the bodies have been released.
[00:04:47] Jolene: I think 15 bodies have been released, and others are not. So I think that's, that's gotta be the hard part for, so many of those families.
[00:04:58] Nicole: it's funny because [00:05:00] when, when this happened, I knew that we weren't gonna be, recording for a bit. And it seems, obviously, it's like such a monumental thing. I thought when you suggested, Hey, should we just talk about this? And I'm thinking, oh gosh, I don't know.
[00:05:16] Nicole: it's so fragile. But that being said, I will. agree with you, Jolene, that, the fact that phase one, I think is what they're calling it, the fact that Trump could even attempted to talk to all of these countries that in the past people weren't talked to, and I think that is part of, I, this is crazy coming from the liberal's mouth that I will give Trump credit for. he doesn't let the past decide how he's going to. Create a bridge or create destruction.
[00:05:55] Nicole: I mean, either way he does his own thing. And I think [00:06:00] that it's huge that he brought the hostages home. I remember when they were going to, it was supposed to happen over the weekend and I just kept holding my breath thinking something bad's gonna happen. This isn't gonna happen, this isn't gonna happen.
[00:06:19] Nicole: And it did. And those 20 hostages came home and I saw the same, I saw the same videos probably that you did on Instagram and it was incredibly moving and incredibly sad. there's already been attacks on both sides. Hamas is claiming that Israel has, gone against the ceasefire and Israel has claimed that Hamas has gone against the ceasefire. And yet they both in this moment have said we still want to ceasefire.
[00:06:52] Nicole: so I delved into the history of this. Region and it's completely [00:07:00] overwhelming, these fights have been going since the beginning of time. And we, with our Western brains and our Western deals and our Western logic want this to be clear and easy. And it's not.
[00:07:14] Nicole: And so I think actually the way Trump has approached it by being a deal maker, by saying, I'm gonna talk to people and I'm gonna listen to people that normally don't get talked to or listened to, has been a gift for the region to even get here.
[00:07:32] Nicole: What I'm a little concerned about is that his attention span is not, he then goes onto the next thing, and, and I'm hoping this is a long haul deal.
[00:07:46] Nicole: This is super fragile. and I know that there's a lot of Americans that don't want to continue to give money to Israel and don't want to, they wanna take care of our own people. But this [00:08:00] is, Israel has become quite dependent on Americans and American money. There's also a, an incredible rise in antisemitism now, which is exactly what Hamas wanted.
[00:08:11] Nicole: Hamas in some ways has gotten almost everything they've wanted because we've talked about this before in an older episode, and we talked about the Israeli Palestinian conflict. before October 7th? Israel, inside the Arab world, at the time of 2023, people were getting along relatively well, considering that Israel has been attacked by the Arab world, their whole existence.
[00:08:46] Nicole: It's been back and forth, back and forth. Israel thinks it's their land. The Palestinians think it's their land. This is an emotional deep, generational [00:09:00] trauma. So much death, so much killing, so much. This is my land. No, this is my land. And, before Israel became Israel, 6 million Jews had been slaughtered.
[00:09:15] Jolene: I, I mean we go back to biblical times. I mean that this is something that has been, you know, whose land is, is whose and all that. I think Christians hold Israel a special regard because of the roots of Christianity began in Israel.
[00:09:35] Jolene: So, and Jesus was a Jew. So I, I think for a lot of Americans who are Christians, Israel, is a special place for, for the beginning of our religion. And, so I think then to take it into context of, you know, these are wars that have been happening for ever and ever and ever. and here we are today.
[00:09:59] Jolene: [00:10:00] I think you, as we have discussed so many times, it's all about the money and it's all about the power.
[00:10:07] Nicole: before October 7th, there was definitely antisemitism in the world, but it has gotten so bad. And that's exactly what Hamas wanted.
[00:10:18] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:10:19] Nicole: Hamas' entire ethos is to annihilate the Jewish people, and we don't talk about it enough. And, when the kids on college campuses are talking about being pro-Palestine,
[00:10:38] Nicole: Hamas isn't pro-Palestine. That's the irony. Hamas has used the Palestinian people as human shields and has also starved them, but Hamas has tricked the world that it's all the Jews' fault. what we have done is like Bibi [00:11:00] Netanyahu has his right wing faction and he wants to stay in power and he's got his own agenda. That doesn't mean every single Israeli believes what Bebe believes, but Bebe's got the power and Bebe's got the guns, and he says, I'm going to annihilate Hamas.
[00:11:18] Nicole: Okay, well, Hamas uses the Palestinian people to shield them, and so they starve them. It isn't just Israel starving. The Palestinians, Hamas has stolen the aid. but we don't talk about that.
[00:11:37] Jolene: Republicans have been talking about that since day one. Absolutely. That has been, that has been the thing that I feel like the Republicans have been shouting from the rooftops, but that Democrats, have, have not listened to.
[00:11:55] Nicole: Well, I just know that there, like in the liberal media, it's [00:12:00] all about, and here's the thing, I don't think that it's okay that the Palestinians have been dying and starving. I don't think so. I don't think
[00:12:10] Jolene: No one does.
[00:12:11] Nicole: And, and most, most democrats don't think it's okay. But the media has made it so that Democrats are like, how could we do this to these people?
[00:12:23] Nicole: And I'm saying, and, and that it's the Jews' fault. And I'm like, it's, are you kidding me? Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas is jumping for joy that the world hates Jews again. the Arab world doesn't want the Palestinians either. They don't want them either.
[00:12:45] Nicole: So you have two groups, the Jews and the Palestinians. Nobody wants them. Nobody wants them, and nobody and, and they want the same land. The Palestinians and the Jews want the same land. [00:13:00] Hamas is the third thing that is controlling Palestine and controlling the Palestinians and starving them and using them, hiding behind them while they die.
[00:13:12] Nicole: Like all these
[00:13:12] Jolene: their
[00:13:13] Nicole: die.
[00:13:14] Jolene: using their school, elementary schools and hospitals and as hiding places. And so then Israel looks bad when they're bombing them. And
[00:13:23] Nicole: of course.
[00:13:24] Jolene: going, oh, Israel, they're just bombing schools and, and hospitals.
[00:13:28] Nicole: And and actual, and I think that's why people, Jews especially get very upset by the word genocide when people. Call what the Israelis are doing to Palestine as genocide. I had to look up the definition of genocide, it is to, purposely target a group of people. they are purposely trying to target Hamas.
[00:13:57] Nicole: They're not purposely trying to target the [00:14:00] Palestinians and they have done everything. They've, they have gone to certain efforts to make sure that they don't kill the Palestinians, but that's not what's reported, what is reported. And that if you're a Democrat like me, if I'm a liberal, that I am supposed to just go, oh my God, the Palestinians.
[00:14:22] Nicole: And I do. It's not okay that all of these people are dying and have died, and it's not okay that these hostages have been, held. And by the way, speaking of the hostages, the day of October 7th, so many women were raped and murdered. We don't talk about it. And that you hear that the Hamas calls rape resistance.
[00:14:52] Nicole: it's the res, it's the act of resistance for being occupied. That
[00:14:57] Jolene: how about the babies?
[00:14:58] Nicole: I mean,
[00:14:59] Jolene: How [00:15:00] about the babies that they were murdering in the streets in front of people Hamas was taking Israeli babies and murdering babies in the street, and so don't, so, okay, now I am so glad to hear you say this because now I finally feel like the Republicans were being heard when we get so pissed off at these college campuses that were, were encouraging these students to, have these political protests against, Israel saying that they were, harming Palestinians and, all the things and that was the farthest thing from the truth.
[00:15:39] Nicole: But a couple things, Jolene. So in terms of the college protests being at college and you're seeing images, you're getting fed on the algorithms, these horrific. Horrific images of, yes, there were like three days of people seeing those horrible, [00:16:00] horrible images of the kids getting kidnapped and murdered in Israel.
[00:16:05] Nicole: And now you have years of imagery of these goins being slaughtered and starved. And if I was a college kid and I felt like I had no control, I would want to protest against that. But how it's being turned is that it's the Jews' fault. And
[00:16:25] Jolene: So, okay.
[00:16:26] Nicole: deeper and darker Jolene is that the Qatar are funding those protests.they have protected Hamas leadership. But United States is now a friend with Qatar,
[00:16:41] Jolene: Okay. All right. Let, we gotta unpack this. So, so hold on. not blaming the students for, for what they see and,
[00:16:49] Nicole: the
[00:16:49] Nicole: students don't get it.
[00:16:51] Jolene: right. Okay. Okay. I, I would agree. I mean, your students, you're 18 years old, you've got cause you're whatever. But when it was the faculty and staff of these [00:17:00] universities that were, helping to feed that narrative,
[00:17:04] Jolene: these were people who knew better. These were people that were actually antisemites an adult, as an educator, as, as the administration of these universities were encouraging this, I mean, what, how do you,
[00:17:18] Nicole: I don't know if they were encouraging it. I think they were like under free speech. I mean, where are you hearing this? What are you talking about?
[00:17:26] Jolene: I mean the, the, they had congressional
[00:17:29] Nicole: University.
[00:17:30] Jolene: Yes. And they had congressional hearings, had those university presidents, in, in front of these panels and questioning them. And they wouldn't, they wouldn't say that it was bad. They, they were not deterring these students from. from, you know, blocking classes and blocking buildings and
[00:17:51] Nicole: No, I, I hear you. I mean, there were also harassing Jewish students,
[00:17:56] Jolene: right?
[00:17:56] Nicole: the Jewish
[00:17:57] Nicole: students have anything to do, and [00:18:00] to me it was another way to just justify antisemitism.
[00:18:04] Jolene: Yep, a hundred percent.
[00:18:06] Jolene: Let's go back to the agreement that was, that was made. do you think that Trump is an anti-war, war believer?
[00:18:18] Nicole: You know, it's funny that you ask that because you've asked me that in the past, and I know he claims to be, but this gets into other stuff. Like I don't understand what he's doing, with Venezuela and bombing boats that he's decided are drug cartel, usually you get an arrest and then you go to trial and then you like, so he's doing things that seem quite warlike to me, that also don't seem very American.
[00:18:51] Nicole: But what do I know? I'm learning a lot about what America is now, doing this podcast, and it's not as, As moral as I'd hoped it would [00:19:00] be.
[00:19:00] Jolene: Oh wow.
[00:19:01] Nicole: So, I don't know. I don't know. I think that, Trump did something pretty amazing that he was able to, stop the fighting for even a couple of days and get the, hostages out. I really did not think that was possible. he brought together all of these Arab nations who, have their own ways of doing things that are very different than the way we do things.
[00:19:28] Nicole: do, I think that he wants peace. The cynical part of me thinks he wants credit.
[00:19:33] Jolene: Oh, I would agree with you.
[00:19:34] Nicole: that he wants that, that that peace prize, that he's like, I did it. And like now he's like, I've done, I'm done. I did it where there is like a 20 part plan that Jared and Whitcoff put together, and I think Trump's like, I'm good.I did what I was gonna do and I'm, and I'm thinking to myself, oh God, no. You like, [00:20:00] they, they, I don't think that this is going to work if America doesn't have its hand in it.
[00:20:07] Jolene: Right. And so why don't you think Trump wants to go through with the rest of it?
[00:20:11] Nicole: Oh, I don't think he has the attention span. I think like optics wise, this is the cynical part of me. Would it? Would I like that to happen? Yes. But the cynical part of me is like he did phase one, he got those hostages back, which is huge. It's huge. Like end of story, I'm not gonna say, but, 'cause that's what we like to do on the left and the right We don't wanna congratulate each other. And I'm just gonna say right on dude. End of story.
[00:20:41] Jolene: Okay. So his granddaughter, Kai Trump Rump, she's she's a golfer. I think she just got accepted. She just got a scholarship to, university of Miami, I think for golf scholarship. her parents are, Donald Trump Jr. And, Vanessa [00:21:00] Trump. but she's an influencer. I mean, she's got a, you know, a ton of followers and she's this adorable, cute little thing who's in high school. but she's always posting things. with her grandpa, she's golfing with her grandpa Donald Trump, and it's, it, it, like, honestly, you've got a follower because it absolutely humanizes the one that I just saw a couple days ago, or last week, they're in a golf cart. And she said, okay, so you're the president. have you reached all
[00:21:28] Nicole: a video?
[00:21:29] Jolene: goals? Yeah. It was a real, and he said, well, no, I don't, I don't think you should ever feel like you've reached all your goals.
[00:21:35] Jolene: I mean, you, if you've done something great, you've gotta have a next goal and the next goal. And she goes, well, I mean, you're the president of the United States what's more than that? And he said, well, to be the best president of the United States. And so he said, everything I do is to, um, is to be the best president of the United States.
[00:21:54] Jolene: So I look at this peace deal and I think. he is the first one that's [00:22:00] been able to bring, the Qataris, and Egypt and the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia, I mean, to bring these countries to the table and, maybe that then can extend to, Syria and Lebanon. Lebanon and, um, and Iran.
[00:22:19] Jolene: I mean, you know, I just, I think that his goal is to be the best president that there ever was. I mean, which goes along with his whole personality, right? I mean, he wants to be the best at, at everything that he does. So, I, I mean, I don't think it ends here. I think he continues to push the envelope to do things that people could never think were possible.
[00:22:44] Jolene: And I, and I think this, this peace deal is the beginning.
[00:22:48] Nicole: But like, a day after Hamas was back out on the streets, executing people, their own people, Hamas was executing [00:23:00] Palestinian people. I, I, by accident, saw the video. I was got a YouTube notification thinking it was one of our viewers writing us about something. I click on it and I see this horrible video and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, who else is seeing this horrible video?
[00:23:16] Nicole: Hamas is a terrorist organization. They will always be a terrorist organization. so you're right. This was the first step. But I feel like by this, this coalescing around all of these other countries in the Middle East will put pressure on Hamas
[00:23:32] Nicole: I listened to this Ezra Klein, episode that came out a couple of days ago, and I'll put it in the show notes and, it's called Can the Israel Hamas Deal Hold.
[00:23:44] Nicole: And it's very nuanced. It goes back into the history. Um, and I, I really, um, encourage any of you that want to understand this a little bit better to listen to this particular [00:24:00] podcast, because both experts were saying, you know, you can't look at logic here. That's not the way. It's run. and everything is incredibly fragile and they have no plan.
[00:24:15] Nicole: There is no plan.
[00:24:17] Jolene: Who doesn't have a plan?
[00:24:19] Nicole: the Palestinians, the Hama, like Hamas is back. Like there is no, there is the, the, um, Palestinian, the pa, but they have really no power. And Hamas has the power and Hamas is just trying to go and intimidate everyone again. And so what happens now? I mean, all we know today is that, there was fighting on both sides, both from Israel and from Hamas, both claiming you did it, you broke the ceasefire.
[00:24:51] Nicole: No one's taking any responsibility, just pointing the fingers like they always do. so what now?
[00:24:57] Nicole: it just feels like a pause. Like [00:25:00] it's like Trump is like, all right.
[00:25:02] Nicole: do what you gotta do. Or like being left to their own devices and I think left to their own devices, they're gonna do everything that they've done for thousands of years and certainly for the last hundred years of attacking each other.
[00:25:15] Jolene: I would assume that you and I are not privy to all of the underlying, parts of this agreement that, are to
[00:25:23] Jolene: be worked through,
[00:25:24] Jolene: right? I mean, right. That's what I'm saying. I mean, so for you to say, I feel like Trump's Trump said, oh, I've done my part and he's done. I don't think we know. We don't know what Jared Kushner
[00:25:36] Nicole: No, that is correct. We do not know. We do not know. I think I found it a little startling. That's all Jolene, just as a person that knows nothing about nothing, that the hostages got released and, people, the Palestinians that were held in captivity in Israel, they came back home.
[00:25:52] Nicole: And so I just, maybe very naively, 'cause this is all new to me, I have not been studying this for my [00:26:00] life. That when I saw the, like out in the open assassinations by Hamas,
[00:26:06] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:26:07] Nicole: I was like, oh, wait a minute. What is this? And again, it also made me feel so badly for the Palestinians just as human beings.
[00:26:19] Nicole: They're just caught.and I learned, Gaza City, it has been one of the most densely populated areas in the world, and also one of the highest unemployment rates.
[00:26:32] Jolene: I think that was also part of the peace deal though, was how to get that area back to a civilized. nation and what can be done with that area to make it productive and give the people, an opportunity to live in a peaceful environment. And, you know, without Hamas' rule. And I think those are some of the details that still have to be ironed out is, you know, who is, who is governing Gaza?
[00:26:59] Jolene: [00:27:00] You know, do the Palestinians have the ability to govern themselves? Do they have the infrastructure that allows, them to rely on, on a Palestinian government to rule that area? I think these are all part of, The details that, again, we are not privy to, but to have, those, all of those nations, pushing for this deal, I think there's, I'm assuming there's something in there for everybody.
[00:27:26] Jolene: And I would not think that, this agreement was made in a vacuum that, there wasn't some negotiations for all of these countries to make sure this deal is done correctly. And I think that's why people were optimistic about this deal too, because it wasn't, some.
[00:27:47] Jolene: hey, let's have a ceasefire and return the hostages and we'll figure out the rest. I mean, I think that's why the emphasis has been placed on this, you know, a 20 point plan, so that the first phase is the release of the [00:28:00] hostages. The second phase is, you know, the troop, troop withdrawals. The third phase is, is reconstruction.
[00:28:06] Jolene: And I think that there are, there is a plan, and there are people that are, that are willing to make sure this plan is, is successful for everyone in that region. And, and isn't that what we all hope for?
[00:28:21] Nicole: yes, I would love people to stop killing each other. I would love, but this is bigger than that. Like you have, two, peoples, the Israelis and the Palestinians, and I don't think the Israelis even acknowledge that Palestine is a thing.
[00:28:41] Nicole: So that's a problem. Right? And then you have Palestine, you have Hamas inside Palestine that want to wipe Jews off the face of the earth that is real, and they're in one small piece of land [00:29:00] surrounded by these very powerful Arab nations. And then hearing about the, the Qatari, let the Hamas live inside their country.
[00:29:13] Nicole: The Qataris were funding the, pro-Palestinian, protests in American colleges and that they're also a friend of the United States. And they gave Trump a plane, and then I found out that they are going to be training soldiers at a u at a US base in Idaho.
[00:29:41] Jolene: Where did you hear that?
[00:29:42] Nicole: That, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.
[00:29:47] Nicole: I'm gonna give you, there's the, there's the Idaho paper, but I'm just gonna go to, to, um, to AP News. 'cause that's something we can all agree
[00:29:55] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:29:55] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:29:57] Jolene: Although Trump says it. Trump says it's fake [00:30:00] news.
[00:30:00] Nicole: Oh, what he does. Okay. Let me find something that's not fake news.
[00:30:03] Jolene: No, a AP is fine.
[00:30:05] Nicole: How about the Wall Street Journal? That's, that's a conservative, let's do that.
[00:30:09] Nicole: Let's, let's do that. the cutter, uh, facility at US Air Force Base and Idaho's Sparks controversy. A Friday announcement by defense Secretary Pete, he about a new training arrangement with Cutter's. Air Force has sparked a backlash from President Trump's supporters.
[00:30:30] Nicole: you know, I mentioned this to my lawyer husband Josh, and he was like, oh yeah, Kotter's complicated, or Qatar is complicated.
[00:30:40] Nicole: And I'm like, how? And my little brain doesn't understand it. Like, how, and he's, and, and he's like, oh, they've always played both sides. They just play both sides. And I'm thinking, well then how do you trust them? How do you, how do you trust them? I don't get it. [00:31:00] And how are they allowed to work, play both sides?
[00:31:02] Nicole: I don't understand that either. And maybe, and I'm assuming Trump isn't a dumb, dumb. I might not like him, but he's not stupid. Trump knows that he play, they play both sides, but he's, so, that's confusing to me, sometimes I think, Jolene, that I don't know how, I don't, I don't, I don't think it's possible for peace in this region. I think it maybe it's, maybe it's parallel playing.
[00:31:36] Jolene: right,
[00:31:37] Nicole: they just decide to just be quiet for a while. I just don't know. I don't know if it's possible.
[00:31:43] Jolene: I think you started this whole episode off with, it is hard for us as you know. You know, levelheaded Americans to comprehend living in the Middle East and their [00:32:00] past, and the religious wars, and the political wars and the financial wars, and, who has control of oil and how much control do they have and how much oil do they have?
[00:32:13] Jolene: All of these things are so convoluted that you are right. Nicole and Jolene will never be able to reconcile this in our heads where we say, this makes, this makes sense and this doesn't make sense. And these should be the winners and these should be the losers. Because I, it, uh, it will never, it will never come to that.
[00:32:35] Jolene: So I think you're right. I think that when we have an opportunity for some type of peace deal that we have to be able to trust that the Trump administration. And the people that they have, brought into this, this coalition of, of negotiations meaning Egypt [00:33:00] and, you know, Qatar and all the different Yes.
[00:33:03] Jolene: All of the different countries that, that they're figuring it out and, we hope that it is for the best.
[00:33:13] Nicole: I mean, one thing that they had these experts on the Ezra Klein show, they talked about what, what you're saying about how we are very logical and we think, oh, a two state solution, and this is what you do and this is what you do. And they're like, you've gotta, you westerners have to stop thinking like this and, and putting your western brain.
[00:33:34] Nicole: He basically, he used the, he said, it's so much messier, it's messy, it's emotional, it's like. Deep and raw and confusing and convoluted, and what might make sense to them might not make sense to us. I just, I hope, I think we can both absolutely agree that [00:34:00] we don't want any more bloodshed.
[00:34:03] Jolene: Right.
[00:34:04] Nicole: I don't want Hamas, I can't do anything about it.
[00:34:08] Nicole: I don't want Hamas. it pains me that there is such a rise in antisemitism. I said, you know, when I was thinking about how coming up in the, you know, I was born in 1969 and. I was very aware from a very young age what the Holocaust was. I would say I knew what the Holocaust was, probably by the time I was six years old, so that would make 1975.
[00:34:37] Nicole: So that is only 30 years after World War ii that I knew that 6 million Jews had been slaughtered because they were Jews. Just because they were Jews.
[00:34:49] Jolene: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:51] Nicole: And so it's, it's very personal and now 50 years more have gone by [00:35:00] and, and to see this rise of antisemitism is very chilling to me.
[00:35:08] Nicole: And I think it's, it's happening in America. It's happening all over the world. I encourage our listeners and our viewers to delve into the history, understand where this is coming from, understand that, when people will not, acknowledge that Hamas is there to annihilate the Jewish people, is also there to basically annihilate the Palestinian people.
[00:35:43] Nicole: If they don't fall into line this is a problem, this is a problem that doesn't seem to be going away. They're, they're back. They might not have as much, power at the moment, but you know, the gazen, the, like the Palestinians are beat up. They're [00:36:00] broken,
[00:36:00] Jolene: could you liken Hamas to, to gangs in America? and here's why I ask that. let's, let's look at Inner City LA and I remember when I was first learning about gangs, like when I was in high school, like, what is a gang? And it was, a group of people that.
[00:36:25] Jolene: Could take someone who didn't belong, who needed, some help. So a poor kid in the inner city who, maybe didn't have the education to go get a good job, and so they could entice him to become a gang member because it gave him purpose and it gave him something to do and it, and it gave him money that he couldn't get elsewhere.
[00:36:51] Jolene: And so gangs had success because they were an out for some of these kids who had nowhere else to turn. So [00:37:00] when you look at someplace like Hamas, if, if the, if Gaza doesn't have, or if the Palestinians don't have a strong government, and Hamas sees an opportunity to. get Palestinians to be a part of their group.
[00:37:17] Jolene: Do you see, do you see the similarity?
[00:37:19] Nicole: I, I see where you're going, but I, but I wanna push back because. Gang life for the most part, yes, there is a sense of control, like gang members bring in young kids who don't have a family or don't like it. They create this sense of belonging and create a sense of purpose. Gangs aren't ruled by religious fanaticism to, to go and annihilate all of humanity.and so I can understand where you're getting the correlation, but in terms of Hamas, Hamas, Hamas Gangs aren't [00:38:00] religious.
[00:38:00] Jolene: I think a lot of kids that get into gangs, they are lost and they have nowhere to go. and the gangs make them feel that they are part of something. Maybe they go into, they go into illegal activities like uh, drug running and things like that, and then violence happens.cause you're correlating gangs as being terrorist organizations, is what I'm gathering
[00:38:24] Jolene: I'm saying that there are similarities that when you have an opportunity to take people in and give them a purpose and a sense of community, even when that purpose is evil or is driven by hate,
[00:38:38] Nicole: it's certainly two groups that take advantage of people that are disenfranchised, lost, hopeless, alone, and gives them something to be a part of. Hamas feels so extreme to me. I'm not saying gangs [00:39:00] aren't, Hamas feels brainwashed and maybe gangs are too, but Hamas feels like next level shit.
[00:39:09] Nicole: Like Hamas doesn't create a cozy situation. Come on in and be with us. They starve and, and take away people's rights. And then they're like, come on.
[00:39:21] Jolene: And raped their women. And killed their babies, and, yep.
[00:39:26] Nicole: They don't care. And they are back.
[00:39:28] Jolene: Hopefully this will end soon, and if not end, there's a resolution that we can continue to work towards.
[00:39:40] Nicole: I mean, I think if there's a positive in this Jolene, other than the absolute positive that all the hostages came home and the people that were, held or they were imprisoned, that they came home, that here it is two weeks later and they [00:40:00] had an outburst of violence on both sides today.
[00:40:03] Nicole: And they, yes, they pointed fingers, but they said, we want the ceasefire. Both sides did. They still want it. So that's something,
[00:40:15] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:40:16] Nicole:
[00:40:16] Jolene: Well, I'm glad,
[00:40:17] Jolene: I'm glad we got to talk about this because I, I know that, it, it, it almost seems like a lot of democrats, you know, the, the Republicans use the term, TDS,
[00:40:29] Jolene: Trump derangement syndrome, that there's nothing that Trump could do that would allow someone to have to say anything positive about them, about him.
[00:40:40] Nicole: I've talked to a lot of liberals that will absolutely give Trump credit for that. Absolutely. I've talked to some liberals that won't, I had one friend that said he didn't do it. he can't put two words together. And I'm like,
[00:40:55] Nicole: he actually did do it. You might not like him. I don't like him. [00:41:00] But he just did this thing. That's huge. And like, but, but we are very much stuck in our, on our sides of the aisle.
[00:41:13] Jolene: Yep.
[00:41:14] Nicole: I mean, here we are, the shutdowns still happening and everyone's still mad. And I just, I wanna be with you Jolene. I wanna be a, like a podcast where we actually give credit where credit is due.
[00:41:29] Nicole: Like I want us to be able to highlight when people do good things, whether you're a liberal or a conservative, I want us to move forward together. I want us to be Americans, I want us to heal this. And I think you do too. And I think it's important to acknowledge. That was a huge thing that happened. And, and what happens next?
[00:41:55] Nicole: We do not know. None of us know and they don't even [00:42:00] know. and I think it's gonna be honestly an hour by hour thing. I mean, and as I was doing the research that I did, that I fumbled through 'cause it's too dense and too hard, and I'm not a scholar, this is thousands of years in the making
[00:42:16] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:42:17] Nicole: their country is way older than us like, and we can't possibly even try to understand, except that, we want the killing to end.
[00:42:28] Jolene: Yes. Yeah.
[00:42:30] Nicole: Do you have a good for the soul?
[00:42:32] Jolene:
[00:42:37] Nicole: I want to highlight,
[00:42:41] Nicole: I am gonna put it in the show notes. Um, and I sent this to you, Jolene, and this is sort of old, but it was posted a month ago and it's from this, group called Perfect Union. And it's a 17 minute documentary. I took Bernie into [00:43:00] deep Trump country. Can he win them over? And it's such, it's such a well done documentary.
[00:43:08] Nicole: it says like, Bernie's not running for president. but it's such a, it's done. It's so well done. Perfect Union is an Emmy award-winning, uh, nonprofit newsroom whose mission is to build power for the working people. And it is a documentary where, they follow Bernie Sanders in Deep West Virginia country. And, what I love about it is just, it highlights just the preconceived notions we have of each other,
[00:43:38] Nicole: and it's a perfect, little light into we've been told what someone is like.
[00:43:46] Nicole: And then you actually meet them or you actually talk to them, and maybe you actually have more common in common than you think. And I thought I wanted to share it as a good for the soul. Yes, it's politics. [00:44:00] You don't have to like Bernie Sanders, that's not what this is about. and so conservatives, liberals, check out this, this, documentary 'cause it's really just about preconceived notions and, and humanizing each other and finding, oh, wait a minute, I, you were portrayed totally different.
[00:44:18] Nicole: And I, there's a lot of things that I can agree on and I just thought it was really a beautiful, film to articulate that.
[00:44:27] Jolene: it was good. And because, I mean, he went in to a really, really red part of West Virginia, but when you actually talked to the people, it, it wasn't necessarily that they identified as being Republican or Democrat. It's just their ideas and talking to them and, and you're like, well, isn't that exactly what we're trying to do?
[00:44:53] Nicole: exactly. And I guess the history of West Virginia, it had been blue or Democrat for 80 years. [00:45:00] And then the Democrats, and you'll see this in this documentary, the Democrats, abandoned them, abandoned West Virginia's, and actually Bernie won when he was running in the primary, he won West Virginia.
[00:45:13] Nicole: This is back in the day, back in 2016. But it's a really, it's really a testament to, how important it is to talk to each other and more so to listen to each other, and, and that everyone wants to be seen and heard and, and felt that they, that they matter. And so that's, that's my good for the soul. do you have a good, oh, would you rather
[00:45:39] Jolene: Yes, but you go first.
[00:45:41] Nicole:
[00:45:47] Nicole: Would you rather start a colony on another planet or be the leader of a country on earth?
[00:45:59] Jolene: Oh my [00:46:00] gosh. Be the leader of a country on earth. Starting a planet, I mean, starting another colony on a planet, how would you even know what to do? That sounds like so much work.
[00:46:09] Nicole: I mean, it seems like work no matter what.
[00:46:13] Jolene: oh. Yes.
[00:46:15] Nicole: Would you wanna be the leader
[00:46:16] Jolene: don't,
[00:46:16] Nicole: country?
[00:46:17] Jolene: I don't know if you're my be the leader?
[00:46:22] Nicole: Okay. If you were the leader of any country, what would you, where, what country would it be?
[00:46:26] Jolene: I would want Genovia
[00:46:29] Nicole: Where's Genovia?
[00:46:30] Jolene: It's a made up country. It's, from, Anne Hathaway, when she was the princess,
[00:46:36] Nicole: Diaries.
[00:46:37] Jolene: yes, I would like to be the queen of a genovia.
[00:46:41] Nicole: So you really just wanna be Queen, queen. You just wanna be queen. Just throw a crown on that
[00:46:48] Jolene: I, yeah,I mean, it's really just a country of about 80 people and we just,
[00:46:53] Nicole: Yeah,
[00:46:54] Jolene: it's, it's a cute little country. They break bake bread and I. We [00:47:00] have meats and cheeses and wines. That's really, yeah.
[00:47:05] Jolene: How about you?
[00:47:06] Nicole: I think I'd like a make made up country as well that is like Scandinavian values, but is a little bit warmer so that it's not dark in the winter. I think being, uh, the president of this country could be real hard.
[00:47:20] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:47:20] Nicole: I have absolutely no interest in going into politics, but, it could be an interesting challenge to be the leader of this country mean, who knows?
[00:47:28] Nicole: I probably get kicked in the head.
[00:47:29] Jolene: Well, I think that you and I would get in there and. And it would not be anything. We were like, okay, just do it this way. And they're like, yeah, you can't, and here's why.
[00:47:39] Jolene: And we'd be like,
[00:47:40] Nicole: I think there's a lot of that. I think there's a lot of that, but I think, and I do think a lot of people get into politics really trying to make a difference. I really think they do. And then they get kicked in the head with what, what it, what it is. They had no idea. The bureaucracy and
[00:47:56] Nicole: and it's very clear 'cause 'cause we as outsiders are just like, [00:48:00] what's going on?
[00:48:01] Nicole: And
[00:48:01] Jolene: Why can't you guys just do it?
[00:48:03] Nicole: yeah. And then, you know, as you've said many times, money, power, money and power. Money and power
[00:48:09] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:48:10] Jolene: here is your, would you rather, would you rather sleep in a tent for a week straight or a crappy hotel for a
[00:48:23] Nicole: Are you kidding? Oh my god. A tent any day.
[00:48:27] Jolene: But you only have a sleeping bag. You have to sleep on the ground. You don't have like a blowup mattress. You're sleeping on the rocky ground.
[00:48:33] Nicole: I grew up camping. I
[00:48:36] Jolene: Not even like a little foam mattress or
[00:48:38] Nicole: a crappy hotel, here's the deal. All I can think of is like dirty, dirty
[00:48:46] Jolene: a tent dirty.
[00:48:47] Nicole: but it's dirt. It's like nature.
[00:48:52] Jolene: It's nature's dirt.
[00:48:53] Nicole: It's nature's dirt versus gross dirt and cockroaches and all the like,
[00:48:59] Jolene: [00:49:00] There's bugs in a tent.
[00:49:02] Nicole: Rats and yucky crap. Like, ooh, I don't want it. Listen, you can like get one with the nature Have you camped?
[00:49:13] Jolene: Oh my gosh. Yes.
[00:49:14] Nicole: Yeah. Would you, would you pick a crappy hotel?
[00:49:18] Jolene: Now I do the camping too. No,
[00:49:20] Jolene: but it made me think, I mean, what, what is the difference? It's almost like what's the difference
[00:49:25] Jolene: between rats and squirrels?
[00:49:27] Jolene: Right? So a rat and a squirrel. I learned this living in New Orleans, rats and squirrels are basically the same thing.
[00:49:34] Jolene: It's just that squirrels we think are cuter because they've got a bushy tail and not a long, a long tail like a rat. And so we're like, oh, it's a squirrel, but you see a rat and you're like, a rat.
[00:49:45] Nicole: Well, it's the same thing, like why do we eat what we eat versus things we don't eat? Like why do we think that tuna's great, but macro's gross. It's just bad pr. Like
[00:49:58] Jolene: Okay. That's
[00:49:59] Nicole: those [00:50:00] rats need a better PR person like Dr.
[00:50:03] Nicole: Dress up the rat. But no, no, no. Let's get real Camping is just so much you're in the fresh air.
[00:50:10] Nicole: if it's a nice, along the water, it's nice you get to see the stars. You're in a crappy hotel. You're in a crappy hotel. Yuck.
[00:50:21] Jolene: At least you have a bed and a shower.
[00:50:24] Nicole: But it's crappy. It's probably gross. It's all about the gross.
[00:50:29] Jolene: That's true.
[00:50:31] Nicole: that's that's my answer
[00:50:32] Nicole: Tent. Gimme a
[00:50:33] Nicole: tent and I can sleep on the ground. That's good for you
[00:50:38] Jolene: Oh
[00:50:38] Nicole: on the ground because in that crappy hotel there's gonna be a horrible mattress 'cause it's a crappy hotel.
[00:50:44] Jolene: Oh, that's true. And a stinky pillow. Ugh.
[00:50:48] Nicole: See, you just answered the question for me. There you go. Um, all right, thank you Jolene. thank you listener and viewer. please again do us a solid [00:51:00] and like, and subscribe and press the subscribe button. Press the thumbs up button, press the follow button, kick those algorithms in, and, and please let us know what you think.
[00:51:10] Nicole: We are here. creating a community together, trying to answer these questions, talk about these really hard topics and not scream at each other. Listen to each other. Be kind, challenge yourself. Next time you wanna scream, take a deep breath and understand that this person is actually just trying to understand, just like you are.
[00:51:33] Jolene: Good, good stuff. Thank you. girl. Bye.
