ICE Shooting in Minneapolis: Facts, Fear, and What We Owe Each Other
Some weeks, the news doesn’t just feel heavy, it feels combustible. Like one more headline could set the whole country off. And last week, for a lot of people, that headline was the latest ICE shooting in Minneapolis.
Jolene and I have been friends for nearly forty years. We’ve also spent the last year publicly proving something that feels almost rebellious in 2026: two people can disagree politically and still talk like human beings. Not performatively. Not with that fake “let’s agree to disagree” smile. Actually talk. Actually listen. Actually stay in the room.
And I’ll be honest — this is one of those moments where staying in the room is hard. Because the topic isn’t abstract. It’s not a policy debate that lives safely on paper. It’s a person dead, a community shaken, and a national conversation that instantly turns into a loyalty test. Pick your team. Pick your narrative. Pick your villain. Post your outrage. Move on.
That’s the part we keep pushing back on. Not because outrage is never justified, but because moral certainty has become a substitute for thinking. It’s comforting to feel right. It’s addictive, actually. It gives you a clean identity: I’m the good one. They’re the bad ones. End of story. But real life doesn’t work like that, and neither does a functioning society.
When a shooting like this happens, the first thing everyone wants is a conclusion. A clean one. Preferably one that confirms what they already believe about immigration, law enforcement, and the people on “the other side.” The problem is that conclusions come faster than facts now. The internet doesn’t reward patience. It rewards certainty. Even when certainty is premature.
So Jolene and I did what we always do: we tried to slow it down. We talked about what we know, what we don’t know, and what we’re tempted to assume. We talked about how quickly public figures jump in with statements that harden the narrative before investigations even have a chance to breathe. And we talked about how that doesn’t just shape public opinion, it shapes public safety. Because once a story becomes a symbol, people stop caring about the details. They care about the win.
One thing that stood out to us was the contrast between the usual chaos and the moments where someone actually tries to lower the temperature. We’re not naïve. Press conferences are still political theatre, and “calm” doesn’t automatically mean “right.” But there’s something rare about hearing a public official emphasise safety and community dialogue instead of pouring gas on the fire. It shouldn’t feel rare. But it does.
And then there’s the deeper layer we keep coming back to: immigration is always discussed like a concept, but it’s lived like a constant stress response. It’s paperwork and deadlines and fear. It’s people working hard, contributing quietly, and still feeling like one wrong turn could unravel their entire life. It’s also communities trying to make sense of real crime, real fraud, real safety concerns - without letting those concerns turn into blanket suspicion of everyone who looks or sounds “foreign.”
Jolene and I keep landing on the same point. If you want solutions, you have to be able to talk. Not just to people who already agree with you. To the people who make you defensive. To the people whose first instinct is different from yours. Because if the only conversations we can tolerate are the ones that flatter our worldview, we’re not building a country, we’re building echo chambers with flags.
This is what we want our listeners to take from this article and this moment: you don’t have to abandon your values to stay curious. You don’t have to pretend something isn’t tragic in order to wait for facts. You don’t have to choose between compassion and accountability. The real work is holding both and refusing to let grief, anger, or fear turn into dehumanisation.
This country doesn’t just feel divided — it feels brittle. And brittle things don’t break because of one big hit. They break because of thousands of small fractures that never get repaired.
So here we are again, trying to do something simple and strangely radical: talk about a hard thing without hating each other. If you want to join us, we’d love to hear your thoughts. Not your hottest take, but your most honest one. Where do we go from here?
And if you can’t answer that question without assuming the worst about everyone else… that might be the place to start.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Tom Homan News Conference,
https://www.youtube.com/live/f0uZKCwGwtA?si=1GT03P1elneERpOL
Good for the Soul:
https://www.instagram.com/basicoptimism/reels/
https://tapcancerout.org/
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[00:00:00] nicole: she's a conservative and I'm liberal, and yet we've been friends for almost 40 years. Everyone says you shouldn't discuss politics, religion, or money. And we say, that's exactly what friends should be talking about. Join us as we tackle the conversations you're having in your head, but are too scared to say out loud.
[00:00:20] Hi, Jolene.
[00:00:21] Jolene: And anybody who's having a conversation about Greenland right
[00:00:25] nicole: Oh my.
[00:00:25] Jolene: in their heads, I
[00:00:27] nicole: Oh
[00:00:28] Jolene: just
[00:00:28] nicole: Lord.
[00:00:29] Jolene: shout it.
[00:00:29] nicole: Shout it. Shout it. Y'all. Listen, we're talking about Greenland just because, how can we not talk about Greenland? And just to give you a little context, it is Thursday, January 22nd at five 16 Eastern time. Um, and you'll be seeing this Wednesday the. What is it, Joe? Wednesday the 28th. Brianna and Alex are gonna jump on this and get it out there and even by then it [00:01:00] will probably be have changed 5,000 times.
[00:01:03] But it was like right. Jolene, we had to talk about this 'cause
[00:01:07] Jolene: Absolutely. And it's so funny because I think that that Greenland was one of those things that we wanted to talk about, like,
[00:01:15] nicole: like a month ago. Yeah.
[00:01:17] Jolene: Yeah. I mean, like, it was one of those things that, that, you know, Trump, you know, put something out there and, and everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:01:25] What, what,
[00:01:25] nicole: Right.
[00:01:26] Jolene: come from? And I think we kind of jokingly said, oh, we should talk about Greenland. And we were both kind of like, ah, what is there to talk about, eh, okay. And now, I mean, this went from zero to 60 in two seconds
[00:01:40] nicole: Oh my gosh.
[00:01:41] Jolene: here we
[00:01:42] nicole: And here we are. And here we are. I'm not even sure how to start this conversation because,
[00:01:49] Jolene: do. I,
[00:01:50] nicole: please start, Jolene, please
[00:01:52] Jolene: have a thought.
[00:01:54] nicole: me a thought. 'cause I have a thought too now that you're saying this. So tell me your thought. And I'm curious if it's similar [00:02:00] to my thought. '
[00:02:01] Jolene: Uh, here's my thought. Trump's an idiot. he's playing chess he's a really good chess player. He's, you know, art of the deal, the whole stuff.
[00:02:10] But damn, would you quit? Just being an idiot with the things that you say. I mean, just be presidential, be more professional. when you are speaking as the president of the United States in a forum where world leaders are absolutely engaged and, and in your audience, was it so important that he sent a text to the Finnish president and go, I mean, you know, you didn't gimme the,
[00:02:44] nicole: The Nobel Peace Prize,
[00:02:46]
[00:02:46] Jolene: so petty and don't be so like, are we in junior high? No, you are the president of the United States, and so please, please have some decorum. [00:03:00] way that he, does things I don't agree with, but the fact that he gets stuff done, I do agree with, and I think there is, there are some really positive things to, to talk about today. Man, does he bug the hell out of me
[00:03:14] nicole: first of all, the fact that yes, he, had a text exchange,
[00:03:20] cause they, they were friends. Finland was like, he was called, uh, the Trump Whisperer. He went to college in South Carolina and he plays golf and they were buddies. And so they had this text exchange where he's like, let's get on a phone call. And he is like, I don't know, you know, you didn't give me the Nobel Peace Prize.
[00:03:41] And then he screenshots it. He does it also with Macron. Like, these are private. First of all, I dunno about you, Jolene. I didn't realize that world leaders talked through text. And
[00:03:53] Jolene: didn't neither.
[00:03:54] nicole: think it's a horrible idea because texting is a, is just a [00:04:00] recipe for miscommunication. Happens all the time. When you're trying to date someone new.
[00:04:05] You always like, I don't understand what this means. Why should we have world leaders do this really bad idea? Let's go old school, get on the phone. These people are all old, they're analog. Pick up the phone and have a conversation like a grownup. But the fact that he is texting that they're all texting each other and then quite frankly, he has the audacity to screenshot it and send it to the world.
[00:04:27] I'm sure he didn't ask permission. Should I? Should I? Right?
[00:04:31] Jolene: you, okay. So do you know why he does that though? because here everybody is going, well, Macron said that, you know that he's all tough and mighty and German chancellor and da and, and he's like, oh, really? Because these are the personal texts that they send me. Like, Hey, can't wait to support you in
[00:04:48] nicole: Sure.
[00:04:49] Jolene: let me know what help you need and, and dah, dah, dah, dah.
[00:04:52] And, and so his point was, you know, y'all talk a big talk in front of the cameras, but you're sending me these personal [00:05:00] checks. So I mean, again, is that the way a president should act? I mean, even, even if I am like, oh God, that, I mean, he really showed them, no, don't do that. As the president, you're losing your credibility. you're losing the dance floor. I'm
[00:05:17] nicole: yeah. Yeah, and, and I mean, I would say that he's acting like an 8-year-old. And I'm personally incredibly tired of it. I feel like the last couple days, I don't know about you, Joe, but I've been exhausted trying to keep up with this Greenland thing. And there, the media for a lot of it, except for probably MO News and Tangle, has been pretty hysterical. it just whips us all up into this frenzy of like, oh, is this, is this the end of the world order? Is it? And then, you know, you have Mark Carney saying, yeah, basically we have, this is now a rupture. [00:06:00] Uh, we are, going to do things differently. And then you basically have Trump getting up there sounding with his eyes dying like this.
[00:06:08] Like he's some mob boss, like, well, Canada, you know, I can't even remember. Like, I'm so like, ah, but you know, we give you freebies and blah. And I'm just like, what is happening? This is totally crazy. That set? That set, because here's the thing. So many thoughts in my head, I feel like. From the very beginning and from the research that I've done, and we've, we've shared a lot of research so we could sort of try to figure this out together and figure out how a liberal thinks or how a conservative thinks. there were 15, uh, military bases on Greenland, and they closed after the Cold War. And both Greenland and Denmark have always been open to [00:07:00] having the US reopen these military bases. and there was a treaty in 1951 that basically stated all of this, or has stated all of this. And they have said the, from the, from the very beginning, we are willing to sit down and modernize this treaty
[00:07:17] We are not selling Greenland. And you know, he went through this whole thing of like, psychologically I need it. I need to own it. And, you know, art of the Deal stuff. and everybody is sort of freaking out. I,
[00:07:33] And then my other thought, I have two more thoughts and then just to, is that, and this is the Jolene thought. it's a rumor that I've, you know, that's been in the media for a while. But like, so he's had these tech companies, these American tech companies in his, in his ear, they gave him lots of money.
[00:07:49] Trump. And there are a lot of rare minerals in Greenland. So it's, it's, I've been thinking about this. Why do you need to own it? Why do you need to own it? [00:08:00] Well, he wants ownership of those rare minerals. may be an, has to do with defending against Russia and China, but I was wondering the whole time about these rare minerals that said, even in this treaty and even the Greenlanders and the d and the Danes have said, we are open to working with you with, with the minerals.
[00:08:22] So what is the point? Why does he need to own it? And now he's, rolling back there's so much show that you're like, what is real and what isn't real?
[00:08:32] Jolene: it's been so recognized, widely recognized now, his pattern of negotiations
[00:08:40] That he throws out an outrageous statement
[00:08:44] nicole: like let's buy Greenland.
[00:08:45] Jolene: yes. and then he doubles. You know, when people start going, what, what, what, what? Then he doubles down on it and even comes back and he says, and you know, what, if I, if you're not gonna, uh, if, if I don't buy it, I'm gonna take it by
[00:08:56] force. And, then he, he doubles down on [00:09:00] his outrageous statement and just escalates everything.
[00:09:02] I mean, we see the markets, you know, crash all of a sudden the whole world is in upheaval. And it it, and ironically at the time that the whole world is together in Davos, Switzerland, then he gets everybody to the table. And everything deescalates because then cooler heads prevail and then he gets what he wants they make a deal and he says it's gonna be a deal.
[00:09:25] Whether it's, it is a deal or
[00:09:26] not this
[00:09:27] is the pattern. And I think that Europe is finally, and, and maybe not just Europe, everybody is going, okay, this is the way he does things. This is the way, this is the art of the deal. that this is the way that he negotiates. Well, I'm afraid he's gonna be, Boy who cried wolf because the next time that he does something, everybody's gonna go fine, do it. You know, nobody's gonna play into the, into his hand. And that negotiating power is, is gonna be gone. you know, I, I just, I feel like we've [00:10:00] seen this so much that he's, he's only a year into his presidency, he's gonna have to come up with a new shtick because people are, I think people are tired of it
[00:10:08] nicole: do you find that the conservatives are tired of it or you are just tired of it?
[00:10:12] Jolene: I haven't been listening to any conservative stuff. I don't know.
[00:10:15] nicole: it's deeply unpopular. Nobody wants military force to go into Greenland. Uh, nobody wants to buy Greenland. It's not economically sound for the United States. I heard it would, first of all, you'd need Congress approval, which who knows with this Congress, but supposedly they wouldn't approve it, and it would cost us 500 billion to $4 trillion dollars to buy Greenland.
[00:10:40] When the Danes and Greenland are saying, we'll work with you, our debt is already too much. Like, that part makes no sense. Here's where I, did listen to two different conservative, pundits, if you will. Uh, there was this guy, on Ezra Klein named, uh, [00:11:00] Y Levin, and he worked for the GW administration. that is a very interesting, um, episode and actually one of our listeners was suggesting we do a podcast on it, so maybe we can, um, but it basically looks at this last year to see how much has Trump really accomplished versus says he's accomplished. And this is from, and, and Ezra is interviewing this very well known and very well respected conservative, pundit and, and his thoughts about what has been going on. one thing that he said after this past year and what's gone on with Davos is that countries can't rely on us steadiness anymore. There was always this assumption that the US played this stabilizing role and it's not there. And interestingly, a couple things have happened that I think Trump wanted, and I think probably conservatives [00:12:00] wanted, was that Europe has had to start stepping up in a way that they haven't before.
[00:12:05] Okay.
[00:12:05] Jolene: Right.
[00:12:06] nicole: So I would agree that that's not a bad thing. I would prefer that he don't, that he doesn't do it in this like bullish bully. unpredictable way, but, so Europe has had to step up and, but ironically, China, the Chinese Vice Premier said quote, the world cannot return to having the law of the people where the strong prey on the weak. And the Chinese embassy were trolling Trump with AI generated videos depicting him as a maniacal Uncle Sam who ruins everything. And I saw the video, which we can put in the show notes, which it was like, hold on a second, China.
[00:12:51] Davos is now acting like the calm, pragmatic deal maker. And like Canada is already doing [00:13:00] negotiation deals with them, with their ev um, vehicles. And there's this one called BYD that's supposed to be totally awesome. I would love to have one of them, but whatever. Um, I'm just like, like, it feels like the world is going, like, what?
[00:13:17] What is happening here?
[00:13:18] Jolene: agree with you though that, I think what a lot of people call isolationism, that they would claim Trump, is more into, um, protecting America than the rest of the world. the, the globalization that has happened for years has been on the back of America.
[00:13:39] You know, when we talk about NATO and we talk about, and that was even the Secretary General of nato, um, mark Rue, even he, I mean, he agrees with Trump. He says, without Trump, you know, we wouldn't have gotten, you know, everybody was supposed to give, you know, 2% of their GDP and, nobody was doing it until Trump said, you know, was holding people's feet to the fire.
[00:13:59] [00:14:00] So Trump has, has finally gone in there and said, listen, we're we're tired of playing your EU game of, of, you know, globalization when y'all are kind of screwed up. I mean, y'all are letting you have open borders and you've got people taking over your country that you don't even know about.
[00:14:17] And I mean,
[00:14:17] nicole: Watch out because same.
[00:14:18] Jolene: thing's gonna happen to you. That has happened to us. And, and so one of the good things that I think is coming out of this is that Trump is finally, questioning the way things have always been and, and Trump, if nothing else is a disruptor.
[00:14:33] And so he is finally saying, you know, we're not, we're not gonna fund the world order that you all want so badly eu. we're gonna take care of us. And if you want to be a part of that, then pony up. Okay. all right with that.
[00:14:49] nicole: But you would agree. I mean, you started this conversation with he's an idiot, like he's acting like an idiot. What he's saying the way he's behaving.
[00:14:59] Jolene: he [00:15:00] says
[00:15:00] nicole: that's the thing, Jolene, is that I could actually get down with what he's trying, like I understand. And now I was listening to today the, the 22nd diary of the CEO had on, uh, Constantine Kissen who, uh, he has his own podcast called, uh, trigonometry.
[00:15:21] And he is British and he was talking about how the EU has like rested on their laurels and they got very comfortable and, and they've gotten fairly lazy. Now I'm, this is what I don't, I don't know enough about European politics honestly, but I found it really fascinating because he was like, we actually have to figure this out.
[00:15:42] And I guess what is kind of interesting is that, from what I'm hearing from this conversation with you is that you and I actually. Seem to agree on this. Like I don't think it's a bad thing that they need to step up. [00:16:00] Uh, and not just take and not just rely on us.
[00:16:04] But I cannot stand this like mafioso like bully thing where,
[00:16:12] Jolene: doing
[00:16:12] nicole: it's also like you said, it feels very cry wolf. It feels so manipulative. You're like, and and what I guess, which is kind of wild Jolene, is that we all know about this sort of the deal thing. And he's done it already so many times 'cause he is been president twice.
[00:16:30] Right. And we still don't get used to it. We still get hysterical. We still get upset. It's
[00:16:37] Jolene: think I, I just, I feel like this was the straw that broke the camel's back though.
[00:16:41] nicole: Oh, I do too.
[00:16:42] Jolene: it's been one after
[00:16:43] nicole: I do too. I think Europe is like.
[00:16:46] Jolene: from Iran to Gaza to, um,
[00:16:51] nicole: Venezuela.
[00:16:52] Jolene: bombing, to bombing Iran. And then we went to, you know, Venezuela and now we're green.
[00:16:58] Like it's all happening so
[00:16:59] nicole: [00:17:00] Yeah.
[00:17:00] Jolene: that finally people are gonna go, okay,
[00:17:03] nicole: Enough,
[00:17:03] Jolene: dude,
[00:17:04] nicole: Enough,
[00:17:05] Jolene: hold
[00:17:06] nicole: right? But then I feel like Russia and China are winning.
[00:17:09] Jolene: Uh, see, no, I think everything he's doing is to beat Russia and China. And I think that is not something that we have focused on in, a long time. We certainly didn't focus on it in, during the Biden administration. And we are finally getting to a place where, um, he, again, Trump is playing chess when Europe is playing checkers. And he is, and he's finally like going Greenland. All of a sudden Greenland was a thing, like this escalated within what, 10 days? I mean, 10 days. We went from saying the word Greenland to all of a sudden we've got a deal, but we've got a framework. Anyway, I think that's what they're calling it
[00:17:53] nicole: Yeah. A framework and a concept.
[00:17:55] Jolene: and, but, go back to, to why we went to Greenland. Yes. we need to, to [00:18:00] expand and, and whether that's expansion of the military bases that we already have access to or develop them into, you know, more than what we have right now. because he wants this, Trump wants this golden dome, it's like what, um, Israel has,
[00:18:17] nicole: yes, yes, yes.
[00:18:17] Jolene: that that is actually a defense mechanism because the, the shortest point between Russia and China to the United States is over the Arctic Circle. So we have Greenland. Okay. Can I just admit
[00:18:31] nicole: Please. I love it.
[00:18:33] Jolene: I really didn't know where Greenland was.
[00:18:36] nicole: I, a lot of people don't.
[00:18:37] Jolene: you it was northwest of New York. Hm.
[00:18:42] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:42] Jolene: it was, or I'm sorry, it was north,
[00:18:44] nicole: Yeah. Northeast.
[00:18:45] Jolene: New York, and it was northwest of, of London. Like, eh, but I couldn't have told you where it was. I didn't realize that it's actually closer to North America than it is Europe. and it's eight times island in the world. It is eight times [00:19:00] larger than the state of California. So, you know, Trump and all of his, um, real estate deals, it's like, yeah, why don't we just buy it? I mean, why don't we just have Greenland
[00:19:11] And,
[00:19:11] nicole: and
[00:19:11] Jolene: and honestly, from a defense standpoint, Denmark doesn't have an army.
[00:19:15] It doesn't have the military to be able to defend Greenland. If Russia and China, and I, and I, I'm sure you did too. As you researched this, saw lot of people talking about the, the channels actually between Iceland and Greenland that the Russians are using and they're using their. Um, they've got submarines and that they, I mean, that
[00:19:35] nicole: they are
[00:19:36] Jolene: they have access do a lot of damage to both Europe and the United States by having free reign in that Arctic, um, in that arctic zone. So
[00:19:48] nicole: active.
[00:19:48] Jolene: that we need Greenland, nobody is arguing with, I mean, would you agree with that? I mean, like, we, we absolutely need to have Greenland from a defense, [00:20:00] strategic defense
[00:20:00] nicole: I would agree that we should make a, uh, treaty with Denmark and green lenders. I don't feel like we should own Greenland. I, I am that I would agree with you.
[00:20:12] Jolene: an
[00:20:13] nicole: Absolutely. it's important for nato, it's important for the, the safety of our world. I totally agree. But I also wonder if, if this mineral thing is really what's going on, because you're the one that taught me about the, about Ukraine and how that all happened.
[00:20:34] Jolene: you are absolutely right about the rare earth minerals because there are two from, from what I read, there are two that are indigenous. No, there are two there that are very important to
[00:20:46] nicole: Okay.
[00:20:46] Jolene: of them is indigenous to that, to the Greenland itself. The other one, the only other source is in China. and one of those rare earth minerals, and again, viewer, I, I don't know the names of them and I read it and I didn't [00:21:00] write it down because I don't know how to pronounce it. So there's no purpose in me actually writing it down and try to tell you what it is, 'cause it's something, something super complicated.
[00:21:09] nicole: you're totally right. It's Atrium spelled with a Y, I'm gonna guess it's pronounced Atrium, Neo Dium and Dum.
[00:21:22] Jolene: Yeah,
[00:21:24] nicole: DYS Pro. DYS Pro, So that, those are in Greenland?
[00:21:30] Jolene: so we need those, and I think it was for our F fifteens, um, our fighter jets, like there is one s
[00:21:38] nicole: Yes.
[00:21:38] Jolene: specifically that we need for our defense, um, for the military. we going after Greenland for the rare earth minerals? 100%. I, I don't doubt that for a a minute, because again, I think Trump is looking at this from a larger picture and saying there is benefit to, to Greenland and, [00:22:00] um, from military and a defense, um, standpoint, and from these rare earth minerals and what the population of Greenland is, what 58,000 And, and so I, I read where like if we gave them each a million dollar, oh, because that was one of the things that Denmark is saying that the Greenland people don't want to be, um, a United States, a state. you know what, if you, if you wanted to let them vote on it, let 'em vote, and somebody else said, we are going to pay $58 million.
[00:22:29] We will make each of them a millionaire. And I bet they vote for it. I mean, is that, is that part of the deal?
[00:22:35] nicole: I, I mean, I doubt it. 'cause they, because they had this huge, um, they had this huge protest last weekend and they all had red hats that said, make America go away.
[00:22:45] Jolene: But I bet if you gave him a million
[00:22:47] nicole: No, they don't. They don't want, they don't wanna be American. Look at this mess.
[00:22:52] Jolene: Denmark, and the other thing that I read too is that this would, you know, pay off, [00:23:00] uh, denmark's debt, like their national debt. they'd finally be, you know, running in the black and, and you're going,
[00:23:08] nicole: But,
[00:23:08] Jolene: this is such a good deal
[00:23:10] nicole: but we, but we're already in such debt and we'd even be in more debt. I mean, it doesn't it like it all. So I have a question for you, Jolene. I'm just thinking about all of this, like it, chess is such a good, um, analogy for all of this because, I would think that Trump would want to stay on top and from what it looked like in Davos, and yes, it looks like he's making a deal with Greenland and with, uh, Denmark, but at the moment, you know, China, and Russia are making their own deals separately because they're seeing all this disruption and they're seeing that the world stage is shifting or there's opportunity for shifting.
[00:23:59] And so [00:24:00] maybe they can make some side deals because United States might not necessarily be there for them. what I'm trying to say is like, China's going in there and making deals with Canada and trying to look like the good guy. like we just said it in our episode with the billionaires and surrogacy, why are they our enemy? And then we let them do business and the United States. but I'm thinking about what you said and what I wrote down about.
[00:24:32] Trump is calling out basically the lie of what the world order has been. And
[00:24:39] I think it was Kearney that said, we have the capacity to stop pretending this fiction of a world based order is over.
[00:24:49] Jolene: And so is that a bad thing?
[00:24:51] nicole: so this all happened after World War ii, right? Where the world was destroyed, Europe was destroyed, [00:25:00] America still had a lot of, was functioning, didn't have. Battles, they weren't physically affected in terms of, I don't mean this, I meant like, um, their land. We were separate enough geographically that we were not destroyed in that way. and America said, we will give you money. We will help you, like you're safe, the allies. We will protect you. And this has gone on for 80 years and what I'm gathering and quite frank.
[00:25:32] Jolene: in all those countries
[00:25:34] nicole: That's right. That's right.
[00:25:35] Jolene: bases in Italy and, yeah.
[00:25:37] nicole: There's a, there is like a world agreement like the un, and I understand that there's some corruption in the un, but that, that these western allies, that we were all friends, that we would have each other's back and in fact, like the Danes lost many soldiers going to Afghanistan.
[00:25:58] I mean, there have been things, [00:26:00] there were, the people helped us after September 11th, there has been this world order that we could sort of, as modern people rely on, that has, that has lasted. And I understand that Trump has come in as a disruptor and he is looking at the cracks and saying, whoa, how come you guys don't pay anything?
[00:26:21] And we still have to pay everything. But I think where I struggle. I could say as a liberal, I could say as a Democrat, but I do, I've been reading that there are conservatives and Republicans that are also concerned that we need allies. like what you say matters, how you behave matters.
[00:26:45] Um, and I kind of am gathering that you sort of feel similarly. I mean, who knows? Maybe this wouldn't have happened if he, I hadn't acted like a total bully and an asshole. Maybe it wouldn't have then, maybe it would, [00:27:00] but we don't get that chance anymore. Now it's just like, just like the bull runs into the China shop and we as just have to sort of, the world is like, all right,
[00:27:09] Jolene: but isn't it funny that the, the reaction from the European Union, when Trump said, you know, I, I could, I'm gonna, I could send troops into, into Greenland. And so, um, Europe sends in, then we're gonna send troops in. so here,
[00:27:30] nicole: Oh, into Greenland. Like, everyone's gonna send troops into Greenland.
[00:27:33] Jolene: Great. Then we, and so they sent troops in, into
[00:27:36] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:37] Jolene: you know, to, to posture themselves and say, whoa, oh my God, we're gonna fight against, uh, another, you know, a friend, an ally, another NATO country. You know what they did? France sent 15 Germany sent. troops, not
[00:27:53] nicole: Where, where did I, where did you hear? Okay.
[00:27:57] Jolene: you were gonna
[00:27:57] nicole: He is,
[00:27:58] Jolene: article [00:28:00] from January 15th. Norway and Sweden. A few. The article so like, oh,
[00:28:08] nicole: all said that, Jolene,
[00:28:09] Jolene: are so, oh, you're so mean. Oh,
[00:28:12] nicole: but also, but, but both of them, like, he's like, I'm gonna get you. Well, I'm gonna send soldiers. I'm like, you all are fucking eight years old. We have, we have the wor, we have the world being run by 8-year-old boys.
[00:28:28] Jolene: Yep.
[00:28:29] nicole: so dumb. It's like a cock fight.
[00:28:33] Jolene: Yep. So, I think, uh, that yes. Um, I, I do not agree with the way that he's talking and acting and it's getting old and it's, um, embarrassing on the world
[00:28:47] nicole: It feels very embarrassing.
[00:28:50] Jolene: but I just keep thinking the next administration looking at you, JD Vance,
[00:28:56] nicole: no,
[00:28:57] Jolene: um,
[00:28:58] nicole: no,
[00:28:58] Jolene: will
[00:28:59] nicole: no.
[00:28:59] Jolene: [00:29:00] Oh, absolutely. will handle things so much differently.
[00:29:04] Like, like maybe Trump is just laying the foundation of, of like, this is the new world order. This is the way that we're going to handle things from now on. but everything is just gonna be so much more diplomatic and, um,
[00:29:19] nicole: How could it not be? I mean, he's set a precedent that is just like we're all exhausted. We have three more years of this.
[00:29:27] Jolene: I.
[00:29:27] nicole: I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy.
[00:29:31] Jolene: It is crazy. I hope we can get past the crazy and work on just the effectiveness
[00:29:37] nicole: Yeah.
[00:29:39] Jolene: that's the, that's the bottom
[00:29:40] nicole: And, and, and it made me think about like, in terms of the 8-year-old thing that Europe I felt like when they finally were like, Mark Carney and Macron were standing up to him, that they were like, all of a sudden the parents, they finally grew a pair [00:30:00] and stood up to him and said, knock it off.
[00:30:04] Like you're not gonna bully us anymore. And the irony is that he respects that. He likes that. He likes people standing up to him. He likes it. So everybody just remember he likes it. He actually doesn't like the ca the, the kowtowing. He likes being flattered. But he, he likes it when you're like, don't push me around.
[00:30:28] He's like, yeah, that's my, that's my boy. Exactly. And I'm just like, this is absurd. I don't know. and then everyone's talking about, like, everyone has their red line and that red line seems to be moving everywhere.
[00:30:46] Like Tom Tillis says, oh, the red line cross. But nothing gets done. there is no red line. That's what I'm learning. There is no red line '
[00:30:54] Jolene: did you think it was icky that your boy, uh,
[00:30:59] nicole: my boy,[00:31:00]
[00:31:00] Jolene: Newsom
[00:31:00] nicole: oh.
[00:31:01] Jolene: in Davos and was giving these interviews, these like bro style
[00:31:07] nicole: It's pathetic. It's pathetic. I need to get some knee pads for 'em. I'm just like, stop. You're of little boy too. You're all little boys. Somebody needs to Linda fucking grow up. Somebody needs to grow up. What the hell? What is going on?
[00:31:26] And and truly like I think the European Union really got scared. I think Greenland really got scared. I think that that's real. 'cause they don't know. He is so erratic. They don't know what he's gonna say or what he's gonna do. And I gotta say this, I know it's petty, but he did mix up Iceland and Greenland four times in the speech.
[00:31:49] With Davos. He kept saying Iceland, but he meant Greenland. And then the weird part is freaking press secretary, ding d Dingling dong Don. She was like, no, he didn't, [00:32:00] when it's on the video.
[00:32:00] Jolene: her that.
[00:32:01] nicole: Uh,
[00:32:02] Jolene: I do not call her
[00:32:03] nicole: all right,
[00:32:04] Jolene: brilliant.
[00:32:05] nicole: she's not.
[00:32:06] Jolene: she
[00:32:07] nicole: No,
[00:32:08] Jolene: She is. I think Caroline Levitt is, I think is very,
[00:32:11] nicole: just does whatever he says.
[00:32:14] Jolene: That's, well, that's a press secretary's job.
[00:32:17] nicole: that on the West Wing.
[00:32:18] Jolene: him?
[00:32:19] nicole: I learned that I'm, I'm watching the West Wing. Never watched that show. And, and I see, I see that that is what the press secretary's job is. I never knew. I never really knew. Never really cared.
[00:32:33] Jolene: Okay.
[00:32:34] nicole: I don't know, do you have other thoughts about this? do you have hopes.
[00:32:37] for Greenland and,
[00:32:38] Jolene: I think that Greenland is, uh, an incredibly, important, country to us that we didn't know was so important. Two weeks ago, like we, the common
[00:32:50] nicole: yeah.
[00:32:50] Jolene: are just, you know,
[00:32:52] nicole: Yeah.
[00:32:53] Jolene: working and living and breathing and dealing with our own things in the United States.
[00:32:57] We were like, Greenland.
[00:32:59] nicole: but [00:33:00] Jolene, could you understand why they wouldn't want us to buy them?
[00:33:05] Jolene: Oh, 100%. I
[00:33:06] nicole: Yeah.
[00:33:07] Jolene: doing
[00:33:08] nicole: They don't do their own thing. that's the part that I'm just so baffled by because I'm like, they were actually not putting up a fight other and saying, you're not gonna own us. We're happy to talk to you.
[00:33:19] We're happy to negotiate. I'm like, that's like a willing partner, and maybe that's what threw him off. Maybe he's not used to that. I don't know. Right. And so he is like, no, I gotta do my art of the deal thing. This is how I do it.
[00:33:33] Jolene: think he needs to get some more sleep.
[00:33:35] nicole: I think he, I need, he needs more sleep and he needs hugs. 'cause this is crazy.
[00:33:40] I don't know if I can handle another three years of this. I don't think anyone can. they all seem like they're losing their minds. Every media, uh, company, every article I read, every podcast I listen to, everyone's like, what is this? What is this?
[00:33:58] Jolene: Did you hear on Mo News? They're [00:34:00] like, okay, he's gotten more done in a year, like, or in this last month than most people do their entire four or four year terms. So like, and here we go, we're gonna talk, we're gonna start talking about it. I mean, it's just bam,
[00:34:15] nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:17] Jolene: Um, it's also funny, all the memes, have you seen all the memes about, um, Marco Rubio?
[00:34:23] nicole: I, I heard about that. 'cause he has like so many jobs and then they wanna give him another job.
[00:34:28] Jolene: Mon
[00:34:28] nicole: Yeah. But what was the, what are the memes that you're talking about?
[00:34:32] Jolene: like, I mean, after Venezuela, it was him sitting in a chair with, um, you know, with a sash on that says, you know, president of Venezuela and holding a, um, flag. And then is, next thing is now he's president of Greenland, and now you're in charge of Greenland and I'm sure Marco Rubio's going. can I have a minute? I just need a
[00:34:54] nicole: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:55] Jolene: Marco's getting a lot of things done. JD Vance,
[00:34:58] nicole: Stop it.
[00:34:59] Jolene: [00:35:00] stuff
[00:35:00] nicole: They're, they're performing a lot. They're performing some stuff. Listen, I.
[00:35:05] Jolene: They're performing. They're working. I think they're working very hard.
[00:35:08] nicole: Agree to disagree here.
[00:35:11] Jolene: Okay. Okay.
[00:35:12] nicole: Okay.
[00:35:13] Jolene: I hope viewer, I hope that we at least caught you up. Like if you're not, um,
[00:35:19] nicole: know how you could not like it has been everywhere
[00:35:22] Jolene: well, I
[00:35:24] nicole: unless you don't.
[00:35:25] Jolene: in my family who, um, was like, what, what's going on with Greenland? When are you guys talking about Greenland? And I go, wait, are you serious? And she was like, no. Is there something going on? She is getting ready for a wedding and moving, and her dog was sick and I, so I'm gonna give her a little grace.
[00:35:44] nicole: alright. Listen, I have friends that are like, I can't watch the news anymore. They're just done. They're just done. It's exhausting. And I think celebrating love and a new life is way more important than this nonsense. [00:36:00] I understand that the world older order is important, but love is more important.
[00:36:07] Jolene: Absolutely. That's a great, that is a great way to end our
[00:36:11] nicole: Yes. Do you have a good for the soul, my dear?
[00:36:14] Jolene: I don't, I'm so sorry.
[00:36:16] nicole: all right.
[00:36:17] Jolene: yours? I know you do.
[00:36:18] nicole: I do. I've been thinking about things.
[00:36:23] one of the things, this isn't totally a good for the soul, I have two, but the first thing I'm gonna share with our lovely listener and viewer is just a reminder. of the fairytale that Hans Christian Anderson wrote called The Emperor's New Clothes.
[00:36:43] And I'm gonna suggest that you all take a read and remember what that fairytale is about. That's all I'm gonna say for now. Mm-hmm.
[00:36:54] Jolene: Hmm.
[00:36:55] nicole: So the good for the soul that I have, I have shared with [00:37:00] Jolene and I have actually, reached out to them to see if they will come on the podcast as well.
[00:37:08] It is an Instagram handle, which is at matter neuroscience, and the page is Train Your Brain To Be Happier. Join the world's first emotional fitness club backed by neuroscience and rooted and c. And what this, I don't know if it's one person, I don't know if it's a group of people, but, uh, they have created this experiment and they found these old payphones and they refurbished them, and they put a payphone in the heart of the Mission District in San Francisco, which is the most liberal city in the country.
[00:37:51] I'm very proud to be from the most liberal city. And then,
[00:37:55] Jolene: Of
[00:37:56] nicole: course, and then, uh, they put another payphone [00:38:00] in Abilene, Texas, the most conservative city in, uh, the country, and each payphone. And we'll put this video in the show notes for you so that you can check it out and follow them. And the one, the payphone in San Francisco says, call a Republican.
[00:38:19] And the payphone in Abilene says, call a democrat. and they rigged it so that you pick up the phone and it rings to the other, payphone. And they're doing this experiment to see if people will talk to each other. And I, I text, I forwarded you today a conversation. They're now recording them and sharing them. And they're amazing. And so I really hope we can get neuro or matter neuroscience on the podcast so we can talk to them about this experiment. Because this particular conversation was, you know, a guy in San Francisco and he works at like this [00:39:00] studio and he was on his lunch break and the guy in Abilene was a correctional officer who was on a lunch date in front of a bookstore.
[00:39:10] And they were just talking about life and. what they like to do it was very sweet. It was very curious. And it was very kind. 'cause I know I'm a huge believer and you are too. That this is what we've got to talk is about. This is what this experiment is about, that when you actually talk to people and you hold the space with them, you aren't mean. even if it's you're nervous or you understand that there's a human there and that you don't have to argue and you don't even have to talk about politics, but that they're a whole human being and you get to know their story and you find out that you have a lot of, a lot in common
[00:39:52] And I just, I'm really excited to hear more of these conversations, from this, um, Instagram experiment. And [00:40:00] listen, if you're listening, uh, matter neuroscience, we want you on, we've got to talk so that we can pick your brain and, and sh and share, and share this experiment, this really brave and cool experiment that you are doing. you have a, would you rather,
[00:40:21] Jolene: Nicole?
[00:40:22] nicole: Yes. Jolene,
[00:40:24] Jolene: Would you rather start a coffee shop in Greenland or a yoga studio? the Gaza Strip?
[00:40:36] nicole: so dumb.
[00:40:38] Jolene: Okay. And I'm talking about the refurbished Gaza strip when it, you
[00:40:44] nicole: The one that the Board of Peace is going to build. That's a whole other, that's a whole other topic.
[00:40:50] Jolene: it's gonna be like a
[00:40:51] nicole: Lord help us. I would be a barista in Greenland any day of the week. [00:41:00] They seem like a lovely, a lovely people that, um, are very proud and they care and they wanna be seen and heard, and I'm just gonna make them some cappuccinos and hang out with them.
[00:41:15] Jolene: Oh, I don't think they wanna be seen and heard.
[00:41:17] nicole: I think they wanna live with
[00:41:18] Jolene: in their own little green line and just be like, Nope, everybody just leave us alone. There's
[00:41:22] nicole: nothing to see here.
[00:41:23] Jolene: Keep, keep going.
[00:41:27] nicole: Okay?
[00:41:28] Jolene: I love it.
[00:41:28] nicole: Okay. Okay.
[00:41:30] Jolene: the don't, there houses like, like when you watch the, um, like the coverage of this,
[00:41:34] nicole: Yeah.
[00:41:35] Jolene: you know, a, a like a b-roll film of, of, um, Greenland.
[00:41:40] You go, oh, I would live in a yellow
[00:41:42] nicole: So cute.
[00:41:43] Jolene: I mean,
[00:41:43] nicole: So cute,
[00:41:44] Jolene: look so
[00:41:45] nicole: so cute.
[00:41:46] Jolene: Like
[00:41:46] nicole: Like,
[00:41:47] Jolene: bright colors
[00:41:48] nicole: and like they're like fishing villages and they're, it's cold. It looks, it looks really sweet and we can't screw it up.
[00:41:56] Jolene: about the Sonoma giddon that we are
[00:41:58] nicole: no, exactly. [00:42:00] Exactly. They're like, whatever. We live in that every day. We're tough. Right.
[00:42:05] Jolene: Let's hear
[00:42:06] nicole: Okay. This is in the spirit of Trump.
[00:42:10] Jolene: Oh, I love it.
[00:42:11] nicole: Would you rather be criticized or ignored?
[00:42:23] Jolene: Oh, oh, I think kind of ignored.
[00:42:27] nicole: You'd rather be ignored.
[00:42:30] Jolene: I think so. I,
[00:42:32] nicole: Okay.
[00:42:34] Jolene: because I want everyone to like me, like you call yourself a sativa. I like that. And so I think I want, and so if you're, if I'm being ignored, then I don't know that you don't like what I'm saying. You just move on. And I just, I can live in my own little world and think that everyone likes everything that I'm saying.
[00:42:55] nicole: Okay. This is not for you. This is her.
[00:42:57] Jolene: and viewer to say [00:43:00] anything nasty in our comments about me. I know you don't all agree with me. You don't have to say mean things
[00:43:05] nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:06] Jolene: to criticize
[00:43:06] nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's, that's very honest. That's very honest. It's funny because as you know, I'm a sativa and I like. Of course, when people say, now that we're like public, I'll see people write mean things and I definitely hate it, but I have to say, being ignored is kind of my worst nightmare.
[00:43:33] Jolene: Oh, seriously.
[00:43:35] nicole: Yeah. It's like, and it feels like, it's like very old, like, it's like, don't put baby in the corner and leave her behind. Like, I just don't, and you know, obviously here I decide to be an actor. It's like, look at me, don't ignore me.
[00:43:52] Jolene: hmm.
[00:43:53] nicole: I mean I, you know, I think both kind of are not great, but I think it's a very human [00:44:00] thing.
[00:44:01] Very human thing.
[00:44:03] Jolene: Yeah.
[00:44:04] nicole: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay.
[00:44:08] Jolene: Uh, viewer, listener, thank you so much for joining us. I hope that we've, shed some light and, and rather that's been from a Republican standpoint or Democrat standpoint, or just to give you some information on Greenland that you didn't already know, because maybe you've not cared to know about it.
[00:44:25] It is an important thing, um, and I'm so glad that we got to talk about it from each of our perspectives, because I kind of think we both the same way
[00:44:34] nicole: Yeah, it didn't feel actually very divided. It felt, I think we, I think we're both pretty exhausted on how, how business is being conducted I would like a stable world. I think you would like a stable world. I don't know that that is, why does that need to be Republican or Democrat?
[00:44:53] I think we both would like a stable world. I think. I can't speak for you. For me, I would like a leader That acts like a [00:45:00] grownup. That is more measured, that is more stable, that is more just peaceful and still getting stuff. There you go. right.
[00:45:11] Jolene: liked this episode, would you please comment? Would you please give us a thumbs up? Would you please share it with
[00:45:16] nicole: Yes.
[00:45:17] Jolene: who maybe doesn't know about Greenland or
[00:45:19] nicole: That doesn't grow.
[00:45:20] Jolene: along with
[00:45:21] nicole: Yes.
[00:45:22] Jolene: on the other side?
[00:45:23] So please share this. and we appreciate you looking at all of our social media. Find us on Instagram, Facebook,
[00:45:30] nicole: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook threads. My LinkedIn page, my individual LinkedIn page. Yeah, we're there. And if you have any ideas for, for topics that you're really interested in hearing, uh, perspectives from the right and the left where we don't scream at each other and we actually listen to each other and try to understand each other.
[00:45:51] Please, please, please. We love hearing about new topics that you want us to discuss. Sometimes, uh, things get pushed. We have stuff in the [00:46:00] bank that is more general, but then when things like this happen with Greenland, it goes, goes, goes. So, uh, we're doing our best to keep up just like everyone I think in this space.
[00:46:08] But thank you for being here with us. We really appreciate you.
[00:46:12] Jolene: And you would like to be a sponsor of our show, please contact us. We would love to talk to you about a sponsorship. So,
[00:46:20] nicole: Thank you.
[00:46:20] Jolene: get ahold
[00:46:21] nicole: Yes, we've got to talk.com. Thank you. Thank you Jolene.
[00:46:26] Jolene: Thank you, Nicole.
[00:46:28] Bye-bye.
[00:46:29]
